Richmond 6 spd handle this? M20? which would be good for street machine and daily driver combo

if your not gonna abuse the trans which would be very hard with that much power id say a richmond 6spd probably would hold up, not an m20, m22 would though. you could always get the inards built stronger though but a th400 would easily hold up w/out any mods. hope that helps and someone else can throw in some input too.

so a m20 wound not? even if it was recently rebuilt? what other manuel tranny's would hold up besides the m22?

With that much power, you'll be hard pressed to do a few things:
1. Hook up with a manual trans
2. Make that manual trans live if you do hook up

Your best bet is with a Richmond trans, the 6 should do fine, if you're not planting the power at every stoplight.

However, be warned: an automatic will be much more reliable and will live much longer at that power level. Do expect to break parts...and lots of them! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif



------------------
Nick Pratt,
TC #1442

Proud owner of a 66 Malibu -
355, four speed, 3.08 pegleg
14.94 @ 93.75
<A HREF="http://www.public.iastate.edu/~amcarthu" TARGET=_blank>
Andy and Nick's Muscle Car Half-way House</A>

If is gotta been a manual,you better go Jerico.Can you say 3000.00 http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

------------------
Bob West
1972 Malibu
454+
TH350-3.73's
3900 lbs.
1.79 60 ft.
12.06 @ 112.89

Jerico DR-4 or G-Force G101 are your best bet right now if you're planning to do much dragging w/slicks. If you're not in a terrible hurry there's a company that will be offering a beefed up 6 speed Tremec with a .50 6th gear (read &lt;2,000 RPMs @ 80MPH with a 4.11) in the middle of this summer. I'm not a liberty to say who this is, but I can tell you I'm first on the list to test one http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif Oh, BTW, these tranmissions will sell for $2,000 and a have a 600Ft Lbs torque rating.



------------------
Ken Jett
1966 SS396 3750lbs
460ci Grimes Twister
11.87@116.79 w/1.85 60'
Team Chevelle Member
Atlanta, GA.

My 66SS (http://kjett.home.mindspring.com)

Oh! Oh! Oh!, tell me more about this. I have 4.11's in my el camino and have been searching for a freeway solution.


------------------
Regards,
RLK
TC Member #918
ACES member
Metroplex Muscle
My Cars (http://home.texoma.net/~rknipe/)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by knipe:
Oh! Oh! Oh!, tell me more about this. I have 4.11's in my el camino and have been searching for a freeway solution.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This transmission is essentially the same Tremec 6 speed you might buy today from Sallee Chevrolet or other places. However, this tranmission will use a 2.66 first gear set and utilize a thicker input/output shaft. The Tremec Sallee offers is only available with a 2.97 first gear. While this is still a healthy transmission, people running at higher power levels have on occassion broken the output shaft. I can't wait...all the fun of a bullet proof manual and a .50 overdrive. Who knows, I might even be able to squeeze 16+ MPG on the highway out of my 600+ HP RAT and 4.11s http://www.chevelles.com/forum/cool.gif


------------------
Ken Jett
1966 SS396 3750lbs
460ci Grimes Twister
11.87@116.79 w/1.85 60'
Team Chevelle Member
Atlanta, GA.

My 66SS (http://kjett.home.mindspring.com)



[This message has been edited by kjett (edited 02-10-2002).]

I thought the Tremeks were 5 gear trannys.
Or is the t-56 a Tremek as well?

You might want to check the Tremek TKO that Forte's carries and is rated to 525 ft-lbs. That is the highest rating that I have seen on a manual tranny so far. How about you guys?

[This message has been edited by yanniz (edited 02-10-2002).]

I didn't think we could use a T56 without going to a hydralic clutch and cutting the input shaft? I'm assuming this new tranny will have the proper modification to work with our spring loaded pressure plates and MarkIV cranks/bell housings? Any additional info on this?


------------------
Regards,
RLK
TC Member #918
ACES member
Metroplex Muscle
My Cars (http://home.texoma.net/~rknipe/)

sooo, if i had a th350 right now. should i put it in and run with it untill this new tranny comes out then change? the car is completely disasembled right now. would it be a huge pain to change to manuel after it all back together?

oh, also kjett, where can i sign up to test one? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/confused.gif

While this is still a healthy transmission, people running at higher power levels have on occassion broken the output shaft. I can't wait...all the fun of a bullet proof manual

Hmmmm. I the 30 odd years I have been working on Muncies, I have never seen anybody break the output shaft. That is one serious chunk of high grade steel.

No slicks on the car, you could get by very nicely with a M anything. The M22 is not stronger than the M20, that is a myth.

The M22 was not built for road racing, one more widely held myth. It was built to reduce thrust load on the front bearing.

I like the Richmond 5 speed, same size as the Muncie, no hacking the car or cross member, way cheaper than a 6 speed.

Slicks, all bet are off!

------------------
www.muncie4speed.com (http://www.muncie4speed.com)
Gold 67
1967 Malibu, 2nd owner.
1971 Malibu, been in the family since new.
There is nothing like rowing through the gears at 7500. Stick cars are so much fun they should be a controlled substance!

Does the richmond 5-speed have a 1:1 5th? I have always been told that it does. So to use it effectively, I would need to change to a 2.73 posi?

Anyone want to trade a 2.73 posi for a 4.11 posi?

Richmond 5 speed is a 1 to 1 high gear trans. I'm using mine with a 3.55 rear, the rear that is in the car now. Since I'm doing a high rpm small block it is a perfect fit for me.

The road race version I have is a 3.09 low gear so a 2.73 or a 3.08 would be nearly perfect. It is a strong trans and easy to work on. I have a shop full of Muncies so having a trans was not the issue for me, the better first gear was what I was looking for and the price from G-Force was hard to beat.



------------------
www.muncie4speed.com (http://www.muncie4speed.com)
Gold 67
1967 Malibu, 2nd owner.
1971 Malibu, been in the family since new.
There is nothing like rowing through the gears at 7500. Stick cars are so much fun they should be a controlled substance!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wally:
No slicks on the car, you could get by very nicely with a M anything. The M22 is not stronger than the M20, that is a myth.

I like the Richmond 5 speed, same size as the Muncie, no hacking the car or cross member, way cheaper than a 6 speed.

Slicks, all bet are off!

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's interesting. Every other manufacturer's (including Richmond) torque ratings follow the first gear ratio. Numerically higher 1st gear trannies ALWAYS have a lower torque rating than a comparable box with a numerically lower 1st gear.

The Richmond 5 speed is a good box, but frankly it's not even in the same league as a T56. I'm replacing a 2.64 1st Richmond 4 speed that blew up after 6 passes. According to Mike Long himself (the very same Mike Long of G-Force) the 5 speed Richmond is "marginally" stronger than the ST-10 I grenaded.

BTW, I am talking about a 500RWHP car and slick tire application.



------------------
Ken Jett
1966 SS396 3750lbs
460ci Grimes Twister
11.87@116.79 w/1.85 60'
Team Chevelle Member
Atlanta, GA.

My 66SS (http://kjett.home.mindspring.com)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by knipe:
I didn't think we could use a T56 without going to a hydralic clutch and cutting the input shaft? I'm assuming this new tranny will have the proper modification to work with our spring loaded pressure plates and MarkIV cranks/bell housings? Any additional info on this?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Knipe,

No need for a pull style clutch or hydraulic TO bearing. The Tremec T56 (formerly Borg Warner) comes with an adapter plate that allows you to use a standard bell housing (OEM, Lakewood, etc...). Here's a link to the Sallee Chevrolet web site:
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/BorgWarner/t56pics.html

As I mentioned earlier Sallee is already selling a retrofit T56 that you can buy right now for your car. However this transmission uses a 2.97 1st gear and isn't nearly as strong as the one I mentioned that will be available later this summer. I know the T56 transmission is tuff. I've seen more than a few 3,800+ lbs F-Body cars run in the tens using these units (2.66 1st) with NO problem whatsoever, also running a very agressive clutch setup (McCleod twin disk). You can spend $1,400 for a used transmission with no overdrive that *might* hold or you can save a few hundred and buy one with double overdrive that will hold, IMO. These transmissions can't be too bad they're still using them in the new Vipers that make 500HP/550ft lbs.

------------------
Ken Jett
1966 SS396 3750lbs
460ci Grimes Twister
11.87@116.79 w/1.85 60'
Team Chevelle Member
Atlanta, GA.

My 66SS (http://kjett.home.mindspring.com)

Well you must be reading different yellow rags than I. The article I read in Hot Rod I think, featured a F body car and it was running in the 10s with a stock bottom end. It wasted every part of the stock drive train. The trans, replaced with a Jerico, the rear was replaced with a 9 inch DROF.
They were leaving and shifting at 7500.

BW is way to proud of their stuff, to damn expensive. That T56 cost to much and requires the use of an adapter. Before I would spend 2K plus I would spend 2700 and get the real deal, a Jerico.

Since I'm running a small block, I think my choice was right, I will not be making 500HP at the rear wheels, more like 450 at the flywheel. And I don't have any real desire to tear up my car at the drag strip just yet, been to long since I drove it.




------------------
www.muncie4speed.com (http://www.muncie4speed.com)
Gold 67
1967 Malibu, 2nd owner.
1971 Malibu, been in the family since new.
There is nothing like rowing through the gears at 7500. Stick cars are so much fun they should be a controlled substance!

Unless someone has made a big change in std trans nothing will live in a 4000lb car that runs in the 10s. I tried every thing that was available even the special ones. I will argue with you about std not hooking up. They hook up better than an auto without a brake. If it's a street car use a 4spd if it sees the track with slicks use a 400 that is the only thing that will live.

I would be happy with a 4 speed that had the ratio's of a 200R4 and could hold 500 ft-lbs of torque in a 4000lb car. I'm amazed that this still remains a mythical beast.

Even the Richmond 6 speed has terrible ratio's if you run 4.11 gears.


------------------
Regards,
RLK
My Cars (http://home.texoma.net/~rknipe/)

Well I would be happy if I had a manual transmission that I did not have to worry about ripping the shifter mounts of the tail housing, and did not have to worry about grenading the gears because of whatever reason, and would handle 500HP, and had .5:1 OD, and only cost 1000 dollars and was bolt in no modifications to my car! Yeah right. No back in reality, it is always a comprimise. I bet that if I somehow managed to come up with the $$$$to aford a Lenco or a Jerico, I would still tear it up/rip the shifter mounts off the tail housing/ throw the clutch apart/blow up the gears.


------------------
350 TBI EFI Supercase Muncie 4speed 12bolt 3.73's
Bench Blue w/black inter. 14.5@90mph
"UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!" Beldar

My 69 Chevelle (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/Chevelle1.jpg)

*Unnecessary Comments Removed* http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Take a look at the F-Body timeslips page and look at the list of 12,11 & 10 second cars running the 6 speed gearbox:
http://www.f-body.org/timeslips/


------------------
Ken Jett
1966 SS396 3750lbs
460ci Grimes Twister
11.87@116.79 w/1.85 60'
Team Chevelle Member
Atlanta, GA.

My 66SS (http://kjett.home.mindspring.com)



[This message has been edited by kjett (edited 02-11-2002).]

I'm detecting "It's my way or the highway".

It's your car, do whatever floats your boat.

Have a nice day.



------------------
www.muncie4speed.com (http://www.muncie4speed.com)
Gold 67
1967 Malibu, 2nd owner.
1971 Malibu, been in the family since new.
There is nothing like rowing through the gears at 7500. Stick cars are so much fun they should be a controlled substance!

Racer 1320 was run off by people who read and have an opinion that is not the same as yours? I think not, might be people who are unwilling to see the other side of a point or not listen or only hear the things they want to hear, a person such as you kjett, ran him off.

Leave Ed out if this and stop trying to pick a fight with your responses. A little respect please for the other members.

Wally,

You are right, in reading my responses they did seem a little defensive and one-sided (so I edited them out). I apologize. That really wasn't my intention. There are plenty of options from which to choose. The title of this post is "What trans good for ~550 hp/tq". This is a topic very near and dear to me because of all the driveline problems I had during last year's race season. I threw the Tremec T56 into this mix as another option for scwiliamson-70ss to consider. The T56 certainly poses some unique installation challenges, but I have noticed that a lot of people have shown an interest in a T56 retrofit for our cars.

My point was only that I race with and against people (my brother being one) that are using the T56 transmissions with a great deal of success in heavy F-Body cars in the 10-11 second range.

I intend to try the T56 this summer and will post back here my results, good or bad. Good luck to each of you in your manual shifting endeavors.

------------------
Ken Jett
1966 SS396 3750lbs
460ci Grimes Twister
11.87@116.79 w/1.85 60'
Team Chevelle Member
Atlanta, GA.

My 66SS (http://kjett.home.mindspring.com)


[This message has been edited by kjett (edited 02-11-2002).]

kjett let us know. It has been a long time since I did any serious heavy car racing with a 4sd. I finally gave up after having to go through the trans after every race if I made it through the race. My street cars all have 4sds except one but that is because I can't find a 4spd console. It's not that I am anti 4spd it's just that I had real bad experiences with them in race cars.

so if this car will be street and only occasionally strip, would muncie werk good? and the t56 has overdrive right? how much do they cost and would it work for mine. also what would i have to change in my current car to put one in. thanks

anyone? dont let this die just yet

I installed a T56 in a 70 Monte with a 454 and 4.11 12 bolt. This things works very well. There is a lot of modifications for it to fit. I converted to the hydraulic clutch (saves your legs). Some of the things requiring modification were: tranny tunnel, crossmember, driveshaft, special flywheel and balance(due to engine external balance and 2 piece rear main seal), clutch hookup, special starter, speedometer cable hookup from electronic. I also did away with the electrical controls and put a stiff spring in place of the reverse lockout.

The nice thing with this tranny is the shifter will come up in the center so the the original console can be used but it needs to be moved back about 5 inches.

[This message has been edited by Tom Kordick (edited 02-13-2002).]

Well it's been more than a year since I first posted the teaser about the bullet proof T56 http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif Just today I heard back from Don Walsh of D&D Performance and he tells me that the bullet proof T56 is now available for sale. Here's the skinny on this transmission:
http://www.ddperformance.com/GM%20T56.htm

Unfortuantely I grew tired of waiting for a solution like this and switched to an automatic. You hard core manual racers should contact Don and get the low down on this new tranny. This is the same T56 used in the new Vipers, bolts directly to any GM bell housing, has a 2.66 1st gear, mechanical speedo provision and most importantly a custom tooled 30 spline output shaft capable of withstanding enormous amounts of abuse. D&D Performance is located in Wixom, MA. Their phone number is (248)735-6220. Please tell them that Ken Jett referred you. I don't receive any kickbacks but I told Don early on that I thought there would be a big demand for a unit like this from the TC community alone. Let me know what you think!

I read a post a week ago that said that the high torque "viper" T56 was NOT going to be offered for sale to the public. The post said to take any ads for these transmissions with a grain of salt.

I wonder if this offer from D&D is really for a modified (or stock) low torque T56 or they really did get there hands on some "viper" T56's.

------------------
Charles Perrell
cperrell@yahoo.com
65 malibu SS Convertible
283 4bbl & 2004r

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cperrell:
I wonder if this offer from D&D is really for a modified (or stock) low torque T56 or they really did get there hands on some "viper" T56's.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Rest assured that anything produced by D&D is top shelf. Don Walsh and his son completely redesigned the output shaft for the T56; this was really the only "weak" link in any of the T56 units. This tranny is rated at 600ft lbs (I believe) and D&D currently have several customer's running this tranny in 1,000hp rides. Give him a call if your serious about a bullet proof overdrive. You should understand that quite a few modifications will be required to fit this tranny to an A-Body, but I think you would be hard pressed to find a better shifting hevy duty OD manual transmission.

ZR-1 ZF's can handle a ton of power & torque.
Some of our LT5 Registry members are running stroker LT5's(650-700hp)and LPE twin turbo LT5's(800-1,000hp)and I haven't heard of one breaking a ZF yet. My 90 ZR-1 made 560rwhp & 630rwtq on the bottle and its ZF has never given any trouble. These trannys are large, heavy,and not the easiest to swap in a Chevelle but they are very very tough for a street car. A transmission's rated torque capacity is almost always on the conservative side. ZR-1 ZF's and Viper T-56's are a good example of this.

------------------
Clint Hooper
ACES #1650
Wichita Falls,Tx
Clint's 69 Elky (http://www.dalesplace.com/misc/friends/clint_hooper.htm)
Clint's 91 Callaway ZR-1 (http://personal.tmlp.com/scorp/vette/images/members/usazr1/purple-9.jpg)

Okay guys I was interested in the tremec TKO but this sounds like a good deal.....is this tranny the same thing externally as a t-56? Would I have to use a hydraulic clutch? This will be going in a 81 Camaro.

Would this tranny be an improvement over the tremec tko or should i just go with the tko(which is $500 cheaper)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AllGoNoShow:
Okay guys I was interested in the tremec TKO but this sounds like a good deal.....is this tranny the same thing externally as a t-56? Would I have to use a hydraulic clutch? This will be going in a 81 Camaro.

Would this tranny be an improvement over the tremec tko or should i just go with the tko(which is $500 cheaper)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The TKO will be a simpler install. It'll fit in your tunnel, the shifter location is closer to stock location, uses your stock clutch components, etc. For the money and ease, I'd recommend the TKO. I have one in my Chevelle, and I really love it.

For the most part, a lot of it is personal preference.



------------------
Gold Member, #178: '69 Malibu Pro-Street
TREMEC Distributor at http://www.5speedtransmissions.com
Ask about the Team Chevelle Discount
mjpell@prostreetcar.com or mjpell@5speedtransmissions.com