One of my wife's computers in her classroom won't boot. It's a AMD 300 mhz computer, ASUS SP97V motherboard, 131 mb memory, 10 gig Western digital hard drive running windows 95. It has a printer hooked up to it for 5 other computers to share. Used win 98 start up disk to access C drive and did a dir/p at the c prompt and it shows 3 directories, windows, novell and a third that I can't remember at this time. They used it yesterday running amazon trail 3. It locked up, they rebooted and used it for other things. System disk error occurred this morning upon boot up. Went into bios and everything appeared normal. There is no floppy in the a drive. Ideas?

Also she has three computers that lock up after running amazon trail 3, get the error message that it can't read the D: drive. They seem to run other programs okay. The discs are cdr media but so are the rest that work fine in other 9 computers. Any ideas or suggestions? All her computers are similar in configuration. They are similar to the one listed above except 64 mb memory.

Your help would be greatly appreciated. The districts "technology director" is gone for awhile and even when he's there it's like pulling teeth to get him to do anything in a somewhat timely manner. Thanks Pete

[This message has been edited by no1dc (edited 09-06-2001).]

This is a really obvious first thing to look at, but is there a floppy disk in drive A? Most systems look at floppy first for booting, and "invalid system disk" sounds like the error message.



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Cecil Hawkins
San Diego, CA
1971 GMC Sprint
The Project (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/Cecils71Sprint1.jpg)
All I need is time...and some $$$ (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/Cecils71Sprint2.jpg)
"Tourist, go home! And take someone with you!"

Cecil, That's the first thing I checked. There is no floppy in the a drive. Please keep the ideas coming. Thanks Pete

With regard to the "can't read Drive D:" part of this; sounds like that amazon program is looking for Drive D: and the CD is in Drive E: or F: or whatever. Some programs are designed to run only in Drive D: which is either lazy programming or a very old program. If the computer has two hard drives or has a Zip drive, then those are normally set up as D: moving the CD to Drive E:. Good luck.

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Bob McCormick
69 Malibu project

I think you are loosing the controler ckt in that PC. With both hard drive and cdr giving you problems the controler is the common link. Verify how the 2 devices are connected (master-slave or master-master). If master-slave you might be able to move the cable on the motherboard end and utilize the second port, dependant on there being a second port and on where the controler failure actually is.

Has this unit been moved or modified prior to the problems? It could be as simple as a loose cable. You may be able to disable the onboard controler and install one in a pci slot to avoid replacing the MB...

Let us know what you find...

Bob, The game works fine for a short then the computer freezes then get illegal operation error then says trouble reading D:. Thanks for the repilies.

DjD, The hard drive is the master the cd-rom drive is the slave on the primary ide controller. This computer played amazon trail 3 fine prior to this. This is not one of the computers she was having trouble with the cd-rom drive playing the amazon trail 3 game. Are we having fun yet. I could format nd reinstall but then reconfiguring the network and the novell are a royal pain that I'm trying to avoid. Thanks Pete

Pete,

It sounds to me like the hard drive is going bad. I would download Western Digital's diagnostics software and test the drive. It will let you know if the drive is OK. www.wdc.com (http://www.wdc.com)
Regarding the CD disk reading problem, try a good disk that works on one computer to see if that takes care of the problem on the one you are having trouble with. Also since the disks are CDR alot of times the "backing" sometimes flakes off causing read problems. The laser needs to reflect back for reading.

Regarding the Amazon Trail, go to their web site to see if there are any patches available.

Also, when you did a dir/p of the C: drive you should have seen a handful of start up files...Command.com for sure. Is the C: drive making any "clanging" sounds?

Hope this helps.

Terry

[This message has been edited by Terry (edited 09-06-2001).]

Terry, the hard drive does not "clunk" it's as quite as the first day it was installed. There are no command.com files unless they are in one of the three directories that does appear when I do a dir/p using a win98 start up disk which enables me to get the computer to boot to the a drive then I type c: which gets me to the c drive. Thanks for the help. Gets frustrating. Pete

Sounds like a virus that wiped part of the drive to me. Since you're missing the system files on the C drive, it's probably hosed. You might get it back up by reinstalling Windows (without formatting the drive). Good luck Pete!

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Rick Sutter
Member #383
'67 Chevelle Super Sport
67SS.com (http://67SS.com)

Things to check:
Loose Internal data feed cable
check for Nastyware
check the Data integrity of the drive with the WDC program
listen for unusual sounds that indicate a head crash.

Good luck http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

if these PC's are networked, and IF you have a virus.. it can spread.. I would remove the bad machine out of the network physically before I continued.. However, you did say one thing that caught my eye.. you say you booted up with a win98 disk, and the PC is running 95? it's possible that this could have corrupted the system files with a win 98 version and thus making 98/95 fight which PC's don't like.. Check the other items first..

Cables
harddrive utility
boot up with a win95 disk and at a C prompt (c:\) type WIN and hit enter windows might start..

Good luck

EDIT

This is exactly why I recommend creating an Image of your PC's.. That way you get them set up, and something happens, a few minutes later you are up and running again... I personally use "Ghost" made by norton..

[This message has been edited by normie (edited 09-07-2001).]

Matt and Normie, I've checked the cables and will use the WD utility to check drive integrity. Forgot about it till you mentioned it. I'll try using a win95 start up disk althought I'll have to make one from ine of the other computers. What is and how do you create an image of your hard drive. I do have a disk that came with a MB that has norton ghost on it. All your suggestions are greatly appreciated. Keep em coming. Thanks Pete

if it's ghost 5.0 or 5.1 it's REALLY easy.. check out the documentation on the disk, and or here.. http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/ghost/ghost2000pe_info_man.html it's a breeze... good luck

You might not be seeing command.com because it is a system file. In dos, at the c prompt, type "dir *.com /as" and see if it found. If not, when you make a windows 95 startup disk and boot from it, at the dos prompt, type "sys a: c:". That will make your c drive bootable again.

DC.

If the other machines in the room are exact as far as hardware. Pull the drive from one of them and clone it to the one that is failing.

Ghost will work fine.

I will e-mail u my home number.

Tim


[This message has been edited by BLU69 (edited 09-07-2001).]

This hard drive may not be toast - it may just have a blank MSDOS.SYS file. Running a sys command on the drive is a good idea, it restores the system files (io.sys, command.com and msdos.sys) to the hard drive. When you run a sys command, make sure you're using a boot floppy from the exact same version of windows, or the command.com won't be compatible with any of the other windows files, and you'll be in a no boot situation again. Another problem with sys is that it may not make the HDD boot fully into windows. Most versions of the sys command don't fully rewrite the msdos.sys, but rather insert a blank one with no boot commands. If you sys the drive, and then it only boots to a C: prompt, you'll need to replace the MSDOS.SYS. Copy the msdos.sys from another computer to a floppy (it's a hidden file on the root of the c: drive) and then from the floppy to the c: root on the bad computer. Reboot and see if it worked. Good luck!

[This message has been edited by zombie1974 (edited 09-15-2001).]

Pete,

Once again there should be a command.com file in your root directory. If it is not there your system will not boot. By your description it sounds like you are missing vital boot up files in your root directory. One thing I thought of that I did not mention, try running scan disk. You can transfer the system off of your boot up disk by typing from the A: prompt "sys c:". It sounds like your HD is going bad, run the WD diagnosis.

Terry

[This message has been edited by Terry (edited 09-09-2001).]

I was going to try and go into school this weekend but they were doing maintenance stuff and told everyone to stay out this weekend. I plan on going in today at lunch and "sys" the system as well as use the WD disk to check the drives integrity. I'll keep you all posted. I really appreciate everyones help. Thanks Pete

[This message has been edited by no1dc (edited 09-10-2001).]

This happened because of that burned software?

This made other computers crash too?

If that wasn't an original CD to CD copy, the actual CD could be infected. Scan it for viruses.

Also, I suggest you reinstall anyway. Windows 95 is kinda "buggy". You'll have much better luck with Windows 98 SE. (I would recommend windows 2000 pro, but that's NT based, and a big change from Win32, ulness you know NT that is.) Don't go Windows ME.

But before that, you should scandisk, fdisk, and format the c drive. Back up any vital information. And reinstall all the software.

By the way...why are you running Novel? If all the machines are windows based, why not use Microsoft Networking? It would be much easier to install and configure.

If you or anyone else needs any help, my AOL nick at work (as a PC admin) is "goprp"

[This message has been edited by Fried_Guy (edited 09-12-2001).]

Well here goes: I sys'd the system and rebooted. On reboot went to c prompt. Typed win at c prompt and got bad command. Typed scandisk at c prompt got bad command. Rebooted with win95 startup disk and typed scandisk c: and got this message; Scandisk is unable to check a drive because there is no extended memory driver loaded on your computer. ....Says need to add a line such as DEVICE=A:\HIMEM.SYS or DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS in the CONFIG.SYS file on your boot drive.
Alex how do I transfer the msdos.sys: as detailed info as possible because I know enough about computers to be dangerous. I consider myself computer illiterate.
FRIED: The reason novell is on the computers is because that's the program that runs the districts accelerated reader program.

I'm getting to the point I'm ready to format and start from scratch. Any and all help would be appreciated.
Also tested HD with WD diagnostic disk and it says it's ok. Thanks Pete

[This message has been edited by no1dc (edited 09-13-2001).]

Maybe second time will be the charm, I've already posted but for some reason didn't "take".

Here's what I did:
Sys'd the system, rebooted it went to c prompt. Typed win got bad command, typed scandisk got bad command. Rebooted with win95 start up disk and at a prompt typed scandisk c: got Scandisk is unable to check a drive because there is no extended memory driver loaded on your computer and a bunch of other stuff about adding himem.sys to config.sys file.

Alex-how do I msdos.sys. detailed instructions as I consider myself computer illiterate.

Fried-the reason for novell is that'a whats needed to run accelerated reader program. No viruses on copied cd's as they were all made at the same time on the same computer and other disks and computers work just fine.

Contemplating going to win98 se. What do you all think? Thanks and all help appreciated.
Pete

There are two ways to replace the msdos.sys.
METHOD 1
Go to another, working windows computer (preferably 95, but 98 will work in a pinch for this project), open the MSDOS prompt. It will probably open to C:\windows or c:\windows\desktop propmt. Type the following:
cd\(enter)
This will back you out to the root of the c drive, and you'll be at a c prompt.
C:\>
type the following to take the hidden, system and read-only attributes off the msdos.sys file so you can copy it:
ATTRIB -R -S -H MSDOS.SYS
Put a floppy disk in the a: drive. Then type the following to copy the msdos.sys to this disk:
COPY MSDOS.SYS A:
Once you've got it copied, take the floppy disk to the other computer, make sure it's already booted into DOS.
Get to the C: prompt in this computer. You must remove the read-only, system and hidden attributes from this system's msdos sys as well, so you can overwrite it. Type the following on this computer's c: prompt:
ATTRIB -R -S -H MSDOS.SYS
Now you'll need to copy the good msdos.sys from the floppy, to overwrite this empty one. Type the following:
COPY A:\MSDOS.SYS
It will ask you if you want to overwrite. Say yes.
Reboot.
You may get msdos.sys errors if you used an msdos.sys from a win98 machine, but these are mostly cosmetic and shouldn't prevent you booting into windows.

If you don't have another computer available, here's another method.

METHOD 2:

1. Boot to the c: prompt.
2. Type The following: PATH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND
3. Type the following: ATTRIB –R –S –H MSDOS.SYS
4. Type the following: EDIT MSDOS.SYS
5. You will come to a blue screen. Type everything that’s between the following lines: YOU MUST TYPE THIS EXACTLY, INCLUDING ALL OF THE X LINES AT THE BOTTOM

[Paths]
WinDir=C:\WINDOWS
WinBootDir=C:\WINDOWS
HostWinBootDrv=C

[Options]
BootMulti=1
BootGUI=1
;
;The following lines are required for compatibility with other programs.
;Do not remove them (MSDOS.SYS needs to be >1024 bytes).
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxa
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxb
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxc
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxd
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxe
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxf
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxg
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxh
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxi
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxj
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxk
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxl
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxm
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxn
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxp
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxq
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxr
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxs

6. Hold the Alt key, then S. This will save it. Hold the alt key, then hit X. This will exit.
7. Reboot and see if it worked.

BTW, My vote is definitely for you to upgrade to 98se. From a technical service point of view, it's much easier to work on and fix. I've supported both, and I'd much rather fix a win98 machine than a win95. It's got far better troubleshooting and repair tools, and recovers from common computer problems (freezes, accidental reboots, low memory) far better than Win95. IMO, it's definitely worth it.

If you've booted to a C prompt, msdos.sys is there (it was put there when you "sysed" the drive). You don't see it on doing a directory because it's hidden. The reason you get bad command or filename when you type win is that Windows is no longer there.

The drive was partially wiped off somehow and you're basically starting from scratch. I seriously doubt any of the old Windows settings are still there but you might want to try resintalling Windows right now. If you do that and still have to go through setting up Novell and all that, I would wipe the drive off and start again to make sure it is done right.

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Rick Sutter
Member #383
'67 Chevelle Super Sport
67SS.com (http://67SS.com)

DC.

If you are not the actual tech support guy for that school I would not upgrade that machine to 98se without checking with their tech spt. You could inadvertantly violate their software licensing agreements. Windows 98se is a better OS but they may not have a 98 license for them.


Tim

Tim, Good point. The district has anything from 3.11 to ME I believe. I'll check with the tech so as to not infringe on any rights. I'm not a tech for the district. The districts tech is responsible for 5 buildings and hundreds of computers so his time is stretched. My wife has 13 computers(they're ours) in her classroom if a couple are down he doesn't get in to much of a hurry to fix them. Thanks Pete

True, the sys command does put a copy of msdos.sys in place. However, most versions of the sys command put a blank copy of msdos.sys there. In the case of a blank copy of msdos.sys, there are NO commands in the msdos.sys, particularly, no PATHS commands. The PATHS commands tell the command.com to look for external dos commands in the windows directory, such as "win". So the command.com doesn't know to look in the windows directory for the win.com command which is what is executed when you type "win". Thusly, you get the "bad command or filename", because without a path statement, the command.com only looks in the current directory for commands. Try running a sys on a windows 95 machine. Most likely, when you're done, it'll boot to C: because the msdos.sys is blank. I didn't mean to say it wasn't there (whoops), What I meant to say (and later said) is that it was blank. No commands in it. It is quite possible to boot to a c: prompt both with a) no msdos.sys and b) a fully functioning windows directory in place.



[This message has been edited by zombie1974 (edited 09-16-2001).]