Quick question. 64 GTO with the Tri-power set-up. What was the CID o' the mill and does anyone know the bhp? Got a buddy looking at a 64 lemans and looking to slap in a BB with the tri-option. TIA

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'70 SS 396 4spd
TC# 1341

"You're just jealous because the little voices are talking to me"

Always thought 389 ci. No idea of what bhp is though. See MANY Poncho trips setups up on Ebay btw.

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Member #62 Gold/ACES 03112
67 SS396(427-3X2) (http://www.chevelles.com/feature/october2000.html)
Be Big, Be a Builder

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gene Chas:
Always thought 389 ci. No idea of what bhp is though. See MANY Poncho trips setups up on Ebay btw.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Gene,

I'll browse around for the info. Realize, this probably should have went in Bench Racing.

*holds out the hands for a whack on the knuckels with the ruler*

Sorry.

*flinching in anticipation of the pain*
http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif




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'70 SS 396 4spd
TC# 1341

"You're just jealous because the little voices are talking to me"

yes, that would be the 389. look out because those 3-2 manifolds like to catch fire on front and back carbs, and the linkage is hard to get right.

According to the GTO redbook, the 64 has 325 bhp w/4bbl. and 348 bhp w/3x2's. 65 and 66 has 325 bhp w/4bbl. and 360 bhp w/3x2's which is what my 66 setup is. Tony

Tony's got it: the engine is a 389 and with the tri-power in 1964 it was rated at 348hp. The GTO 389 made all it's extra power from the heads, cam and induction. Standard 389 heads of the same years are quite a bit different and can't just be "hopped up" to equal the GTO heads.

Also, the '64 heads are unique as is the cam. Pontiac revised both measurably for 1965 thus the rating bump of the tri-power to 360hp for 1965.



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NCOA member #220
ACES member #1670
Team Chevelle #998
YesterYears Chevys #52949
Rich's 1965 Malibu SS Restoration Project Progress Page (http://www.geocities.com/ticklewiggle/)
1:18 scale diecast car Detailing by Scooter (http://www.amhost.com/scooter/)

Ask and ye shall recieve. Got it, thanks guys.....a little GTO history for me, appreciate it. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif



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'70 SS 396 4spd
TC# 1341

"You're just jealous because the little voices are talking to me"

Gee, you guys beat me to the punch http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif Good answers!

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Fast Ernie
All throttle..................no bottle
Harley WideGlide

Well, there's a reason I know a little about '64 GTOs:

http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/8627/bobsgtopage.html

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NCOA member #220
ACES member #1670
Team Chevelle #998
YesterYears Chevys #52949
Rich's 1965 Malibu SS Restoration Project Progress Page (http://www.geocities.com/ticklewiggle/)
1:18 scale diecast car Detailing by Scooter (http://www.amhost.com/scooter/)

Hi,

I am sure the 4-barrel 65 389 was rated at 335hp. I bought one new in 65. Of course that was not the question. I am pretty sure the 64 tri-power setup was 348hp and 65 tri-power 360. Loved my 65 GTO, wish I still had it.

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R.E. Stancliff

I'm just looking to start trouble.

Hey Rich, which one will be faster, I mean when the Goats done are you guys gonna line em up ? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/tongue.gif

Buy the way, I think I've got a couple magazines with your car in em, and its really sweet.

I will try to set the record strait for you. Tri Power carbs are not prone to catch on fire and they are not hard to adjust. At idle the the end carbs throttle plates must be completly closed and at wide ope throttle they must be completly open, thats the only adjustments you need to wory about. The 1964 GTO engine was a 389 cid with 348hp with Tri Power, the heads are the same heads as used on the 421 SD. The 1965 and 66 heads are slighty better than the 64 heads, they have a little longer intake port. The heads that you want on there are the 67-70 big valve heads, 1967 is the only year that the big valve head was avalable with a closed chamber design. Just about all Pontiacs used flat top pistons, you can use the latter heads as long as you don't have too much lift on the camshaft because the valve notches on the pistons are in a different place. If you use latter model heads on a 64 engine you must also use different push rods because the 64 engine valve train is oiled from hollow studs and the 65 and latter heads are push rod oiled. You must also use a 65 or 66 tri power if you change the heads because they also use a different bolt pattern. You can use the 64 tri power carbs on a 65 manifold and use the end carbs on a 66 manifold, the 66 manifold uses a big bore center carb but both the 65 and 66 tri power flow about the same. Some say the 65 tri power is rated at about 780 cfm and the 66 is rated at 880 cfm. The base GTO used a 066 cam and the tri power used a 068 cam. If you go with a set of big valve heads it will wake up the motor and you will notice the difference even with a 4 bbl carb but nothing sounds like a tri power opened up.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thad:
Hey Rich, which one will be faster, I mean when the Goats done are you guys gonna line em up?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I seem to remember this being brought up by Rich in here several months ago and there were a lot of good responses.

BTW - I fully restored a 64 tripower goat several years ago (picture on my site) and I commend a lot of the above dudes for their knowledgeable replies.



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ACES #4241, TC #947
69 SS Sedan (http://www.angelfire.com/rock/69ss)

Well, the '64 GTO is a long ways from done and funds are tight so it's not really worth thinking about at this time. I have some great stories from the 1st owner of my Chevelle of him whippin' a guy with a '65 GTO everytime they lined up. I guess the guy with the GTO thought he was hot stuff and that a small block car could never keep up. I've no idea which motor the Goat had or trans for that matter and drivers can make a whole lot of difference but the story is corraborated by others so it would appear to be authentic. I love telling this story to my Pontiac buddies!

The GTO is my cousin's car of course and he is an old drag racer. All things being equal (and their not!) I'll bet his technique would out do mine anyday! And I'm sure the tri-power with equal HP and tons more torque would eat my Chevelle for lunch.

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NCOA member #220
ACES member #1670
Team Chevelle #998
YesterYears Chevys #52949
Rich's 1965 Malibu SS Restoration Project Progress Page (http://www.geocities.com/ticklewiggle/)
1:18 scale diecast car Detailing by Scooter (http://www.amhost.com/scooter/)

[This message has been edited by Rich-L79 (edited 10-23-2001).]

I hate to tell you but a GTO race against just about any small block is not a race. There are exceptions to the rule, one being the GTO came equiped with a 2 speed automatic transmission and steep rear end gears. If you don't believe me just look up any old magazine test. A L79 Chevelle just was not in the same league. With the right set up a GTO is a 13 sec car from the factory even with the scrawny tires that came on them. Now a 65 Chevelle with a 396 is a different story.

Well, quoting old magazine reviews:

'65 Chevelle L79
327
350hp
360lb/ft
4-speed
3.70 open
16.0 @ 90mph
CARS, April 1965

'65 GTO
389
335hp
431 lb/ft
Auto
3.23 posi
16.1 @ 89mph
Motor Trend Feb. 65


Now I realize the GTO has an auto and crummy rear end but the Chevelle has an open axle. I also realize the GTO is not a tri-power.

As I said, I've no idea which GTO engine the '65 in my story had or which trans. The L79 is not the most intimidating motor on earth but it is capable of humbling many other performance cars of the era.

I'm also sure there are other test drive reviews of the '65 GTO with more impressive numbers but the MT article is the only one I have at the moment. My point is that the L79 could have been ordered with the right equipment (3.70-3.90 gears and posi-traction) which would allow it to be competitive with many of the cars available at the time.

Concerning your 13-second reference to the GTO, if you are talking about the '64 GTO road test that appeared in Car and Driver, it is now a well known fact that the test car(s) used for those test drives actually had the high output 421 installed unbeknownst to the C/D test drive authors. In fact, one of the test cars still exists and is featured at Pontiac shows from time to time and even drag raced a little by the owners. As you know, the 421 was never an available engine in a GTO. The car was a ringer unrelated to anything actually available to the public.



[This message has been edited by Rich-L79 (edited 10-23-2001).]

Ken K I have a all original 67 GTO bench seat automatic with power windows and factory air conditioning. Do you know the casting numbers on those 67 big valve closed chamber heads you were talking about ? and what was the compression ratio of the engine with those heads from the factory ?

Also did all 67 GTO engines (400 4bls) come with those heads ?

Thanks Ryan

[This message has been edited by RyanS (edited 10-23-2001).]

*in my best Gomer Pile voice*

"well goollllllly"

Tons of info, good stuff and I thank ya's greatly. If ya line up the goat and the velle just make sure ya post the .mpeg, would love to see that.

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'70 SS 396 4spd
TC# 1341

"You're just jealous because the little voices are talking to me"

Ryan, the head code for a 67 Pontiac 400 with big valve heads is 670, look on the center exhaust ports for the code. The factory rated the compression at 10.75 but it fudged a little, it's closer to 10.25

Now for the magazine test that were not stated. 1964 Road and tracks numbers for a 1964 GTO with tri power 5.7 seconds 0-60 and 14.1 at 104.2 in the quarter. Motor Trend tested a 1967 GTO with a Bobcat kit turned the quarter in 13.09 seconds at 106.5 mph and 0-60 in 4.9 seconds, A 1965 Z-16 was good for mid 14 second quarter miles at about 100 mph, there is not any specific times listed with the info I have. After the magazines got ahold of an untuned GTO when they first came out Pontiac tried to make shure it wouldn't happen again, most of the other manufatures also made shure the magazine got ahold of there cars that were tuned to a T.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RyanS:
Also did all 67 GTO engines (400 4bls) come with those heads ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well Ryan, I can't really speak for the 67's, but here's some info for the 69's if you are interested.

The 69 GTO's were rated at 350 HP unless you ordered one of the RA engines or the 2 barrel version. However, the automatic cars got different heads and a different cam than the manual cars, but the HP rating was the same. The manual cars got the RA III heads and cam (068). I think in 68 this was referred to as "HO".

Just a little tidbit.



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ACES #4241, TC #947
69 SS Sedan (http://www.angelfire.com/rock/69ss)

I would like to elaborate on a couple of things Ken K said about the tri power set up you have on the "Goat". He is right on the money about the throttles on the end carb both being wide open and fully shut when they need to be. In fact all three sets of throttles need to be wide open at the same time. The big difference is with the center carb. It differs in that it is the only carb with a choke and it is the only carb that has anything to do with idle speed. I don't recall if there were any idle mixture screws on the end carbs but I doubt it. You must also remember that the throttle linkage is designed to be "progressive" You get about 25% throttle on the center carb before you start to open the end carbs. These cars were not fun to drive in the winter in Minnesota where I grew up. Most people disconnected the end carbs until warm weather arrived in the spring. To adjust the linkage loosen the adjusters , hold all three carbs wide open and tighten the adjusters making sure that all six throttle plates are vertical. Good luck. Did I say that I am jealous. I never owned a GTO and I sure wanted to.