Good day Gentlemen,

Sorry for bringing up old business, but the information received in the first round was so valuable, I just had to revisit the original question. With the summer here, and the project getting close to start date (Vacation booked), I thought I would see if any new members, or anybody that missed the first posting could provide further info or experiences. As you can tell, I am not giving up on this project. The only thing that will stop me is cutting up any part of my baby. I will be very inventive with mounting brackets and such.


Original Posting.....I am sure I am not the first person to ask this question, but it sure feels like it.
I have a 1965 Chevelle convertible (350 ci w/Muncie 4-speed)which is in need of a new heart. I have recently acquired a possible doner. It is 2000 Z71 (total loss) vehicle, with the Vortec 5.3L (327).
Is this swap possible, and if so, what do I need from the doner vehicle?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, SteveW.

[This message has been edited by SteveW (edited 06-20-2001).]

[This message has been edited by SteveW (edited 06-20-2001).]

Steve,
As I'm sure you are aware, that 2000 engine is TOTALLY computer controlled. You will have to have EVERY single piece of computer related components. And, if you are not totally up to speed on retrofitting a modern engine, computer, sensors and harness into an older car, then it will be necessary to find a guru. There are a few people around who can correctly advise you about how to hook it all up. But, unfortunately, I don't know any just off the top of my head.

Here is a thought/opinion. The underhood of a 65 is clean, neat and uncomplicated. The added components/wiring harness of a modern computer engine will add some clutter (and maybe a few headaches). I'd be inclined to go one of 2 other directions if I were in your shoes:
1. Do a good rebuild of your 350.
2. Round up a 400 crank and convert your 350 to a 383.
3. Round up a SB400 and build it.
4. And, the ultimate, go with a BB. Just a moderately rebuilt 396/402 will change it into an evil street car.

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Tom Parsons

Steve,
As I'm sure you are aware, that 2000 engine is TOTALLY computer controlled. You will have to have EVERY single piece of computer related components. And, if you are not totally up to speed on retrofitting a modern engine, computer, sensors and harness into an older car, then it will be necessary to find a guru. There are a few people around who can correctly advise you about how to hook it all up. But, unfortunately, I don't know any just off the top of my head.

Here is a thought/opinion. The underhood of a 65 is clean, neat and uncomplicated. The added components/wiring harness of a modern computer engine will add some clutter (and maybe a few headaches). I'd be inclined to go one of 2 other directions if I were in your shoes:
1. Do a good rebuild of your 350.
2. Round up a 400 crank and convert your 350 to a 383.
3. Round up a SB400 and build it.
4. And, the ultimate, go with a BB. Just a moderately rebuilt 396/402 will change it into an evil street car.

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Tom Parsons

Thanks for your response Tom, I appreciate it.
The same thoughts went through my head in the beginning, and I had gone so far as to price out the stroker kit, but when the thought of still keeping the 327 fender flag on the Malibu, well I just had to buy the truck!
So needless to say, I have the whole truck, parts are not an issue.
I am still not convinced that this can't be done without butchering the car. Worse case, could I not strip down the 5.3 and convert it back to carburetor, and distributor?

Trust me on this one. You don't want any part of trying to stuff that thing into your Chevelle. Sell what you have there and put the money into parts for an older 350/327. Less headaches and you will be money ahead.

Steve, I don't see anything wrong with the swap. It should run with any stock 327 and get twice the gas mileage. It is a involved swap. Contact painless wiring or street and performance to see if the make a harness yet.
If they do all you need is the motor , computer and all the sensors that are mounted to it. If they don't you will have to use the factoy harness and cut out more than 1/2 of it for stuff that your car won't use. That would be the hardest part of the whole swap in my opinion. Hopfully painless can make a harness since that motor is LS1 based motor.
As for not butching up the car be creative. Take time and custom make brakets that bolt using various bolts that are already there. What you do need to realize is that is a modular motor and never had a
carburated version of it. You can not convert it to a carb and dist. It is not like the old tuneports that you throw away all the injection stuff and bolt on a carb and intake. I have a wrecked 94 TA in the garage just waiting to donate its organs to the right 64-67 wagon when I find one.
Just my 0.02

Go with the swap. The fuel injected engines run very well. I have had two Chevelles with
L98's and I now have one with an LT1. One thing that helps a lot is to order a factory service manual from Helm's. This will give you wiring diagrams and codes.

I sure appreciate the positive feedback guy's, I was really getting worried there, you basically confirmed my thoughts. I understand that there are going to be minor obstacles, but at least the swap is achievable.

Any other feedback, or experiences would be welcomed.

SRW.

The retrofit of modern running gear into old iron is not a new idea. Rodder's have been doing it since father time was a baby. There are a few good books out there on the subject and as the other's have said check out the retrofit companies. There is a lot of potential heart ache in there, so study hard and investigate carefully. It would be nice to see a thoroughly updated velle.... Check out the February 2001 Hot Rod Magazine as there is a fair article in there.

Wire Harness companies to check:
Painless Performance (http://www.painlessperformance.com)
Street & Performance (http://www.tunedport.com)
Turbo City (http://www.turbocity.com)

Hope it helps

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Steve Soltesz
Something about me & Canadian Car's....
Team Chevelle Gold Member #37
64 Malibu SS (ZZ4/TH350, Show'n Go)
68 Beaumont (396/TH400 Street/Strip)
69 Beaumont (307/TH350)
80 Camaro (Mrs.64's 355/TH350 Show'n Go)
WebSite http://www.magma.ca/~ssoltesz (To be Updated Soon)

[This message has been edited by Canuck64ss (edited 02-02-2001).]

Something to note is that the 5.3L Vortec engine may displace 327 inches, but it isn't the same as the good ol small block we all know and love.
You might have to make motor mounts too is all. And an oil pan if you have't been making the right burnt offerings to the engine swap gods.
Might be pretty neat though, just think you could put the intermittent wipers, cruise control ( a real honest to goodness computer controlled one) and the best of all, that dome light that stays on for a sec when you close the door. Oooooh almost forgot Daytime Running Lights!! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif
Good luck
K

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64 2 Door HT 6-230 and a 'Glide (It's OK it is going away someday)
Formerly 71 Elco

Steve, go to www.montecarloss.com (http://www.montecarloss.com) and go to engine and drivetrain and see what someone there is doing to swap one into a 86(I think) Monte Carlo SS. There is quite a bit of fabrication, but he is determined to do it. Hope this helps.

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Leo Paugh
Maryland Chevelle Club #017
A.C.E.S.#3731
Goals are dreams with deadlines.
Maryland Chevelle Club (http://www.clark.net/pub/chevelle/mcc.htm)

Steve,
Give this guy a call. He and his brother have been doing this kind of thing for a long time now. This guy builds wiring harnesses for just what your looking for and they are simple to put in. I've seen several cars and trucks they have done at swap meets and they are things to drool over. Last year they had a '65 & '66 Impala both with late model motors (LT1's I believe) in them. A '87 pickup with a late model ('99 model) Corvette motor in it as a daily driver. I think they can really help you over the humps.

Keith Wyatt @ 903-564-6602
Phil Wyatt @ 972-924-3100

Good luck. By the way, I'm doing the same kinda thing to mine. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

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TC Gold 287
ACES 2716

I just wanted to post a note in appreciation of all the responses I have received to this project. The information I have gathered is amazing. You guy's have a "GOOD thing going here, and I am glad to be a part of it. Thanks again for getting me started with this project, and if anyone else has experiences, by all means, keep the reply's coming.
Just as an FYI, I received a note from Super Street Performance, and they claim that GM "does" make the spread bore intake and carb to revert this engine to "non computer". This is definitely not the root I want to take, but it is good to know the option is there.

Thanks again, your input is very much appreciated.
SRW.

Steve,
Do it! I did.
I put a 1999 346 cubic inch LS1 and a 4L60E electronically controlled four speed automatic in my 1967 Chevelle convertible.
It's smooth, quiet and gets 22-24 MPG. It's also powerful enough to bake the tires off in three gears.
These new engines do NOT bolt into our older cars. You will need to do heavy mods to the front K-member, the rear mount needs to be lowered slightly. The wiring is not bad at all. I did'nt buy the aftermarket harness. I had a guy do some mods to the stock harness and it works great. I hid the computor behind the passanger side headlite, so under the hood is not as bad as the nay-sayers would have you believe. You need to put in a high pressure fuel pump with regulator and bypass and will have to run electric fans.
From the outside you can't tell except for the "67 LS1" license plates. I drive this car everyday as its my daily driver. In the year I've been driving it (40,000 miles) it has only failed me once when a radiator hose popped off.
The fact that yours is a "327" is kinda cool. I'm in the middle of modifiying some "396" emblems to read "346".
I have some pictures if your interested but I can't figure out how to post them. If you want them e-mail me and I'll send them to you. If anyone can figure out how to post them let me know.
Good luck.
Dennis

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1967 Chevelle convertible with a 1999 LS1 engine and a 4L60E transmission.
Also, looking to purchase a Posi rear-end, 10 or 12 bolt, prefer 3.08 or 3.36 ratio, for a 64 thru 67 Chevelle.

[This message has been edited by 67_LS1 (edited 02-06-2001).]

I worked on that engine last summer, doing dynamometer evaluations at GM. It wouldn't be my first choice to swap in an older Chevelle, but anything's possible. Drop me an email if you get hung up on something; I might be able to help you out.

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Tony Nausieda
1970 SS 396-350hp
Frame-off Resto: Just Say No! 4 years and counting...

Any swap is possible, but this is a totally different engine and I don't think there's a carburetor and intake manifold combo available for this engine. You'll have to use the engine and transmission from the truck, and you'll have to build your own wiring harness. You will need to be very proficient at reading wiring diagrams to do this.
This engine is made from a very thin casting. Every fastener has to be torqued to factory specs if you ever have to tear it down for any reason. According to the shop that does all my machine work, if you overtorque the intake manifold bolts, you lock up the crankshaft. Head bolts are stretch to yield, which means that once you remove them, you throw them away and buy new ones. They are never, ever to be reused.
Like I said, any swap is possible, but you need to be aware of what you're getting yourself into, and you need to be aware of the peculiarities of this particular engine. Too many of these cars end up in the crusher because the owners bit off more than they could chew and end up selling them just to get rid of them.
In my opinion, you'd be better off swapping this 5.3 for a 350 TPI from a Camaro if you're determined to upgrade to fuel injection. Even a 5.7 Vortec from a pre-1999 truck would be a better choice.

Good day Gentlemen,

Sorry for bringing up old business, but the information received in the first round was so valuable, I just had to revisit the original question. With the summer here, and the project getting close to start date (Vacation booked), I thought I would see if any new members, or anybody that missed the first posting could provide further info or experiences. As you can tell, I am not giving up on this project. The only thing that will stop me is cutting up any part of my baby. I will be very inventive with mounting brackets and such.

I have been in touch with Painless, they have a generic harness that should work. GM Performance says they do not make the parts to convert back to intake, carb, distributor. Super Street Performance says they do. My plans are to install as is (EFI). The gentleman who dyno tested the engine estimates 350 + HP, 85 % of torque range from idle to 5600 RPM (yeah baby!), oh yeah, and 32 MPG (whatever).

Ps. This site is unbelievable, you guys are great. I read every day at lunch.

[This message has been edited by SteveW (edited 06-20-2001).]