Hello again, here's my situation. I have a '69 Chevelle convertible. I purchased the car in June of last year and it has always had a noticeable lean to the passenger's side. I have replaced ALL the body bushings, and all 4 coils springs. I have it at a suspension / body shop now and the manager just called and said the frame checked out fine! That really doesn't surprise me because I took it to the Chevy dealer next door to where I work a few months ago and he said the frame was "straight" also. The dealer suggested the coils, which I did right away, but no luck. Measuring the front from wheel well top (just to where it touches the chrome wheel well molding) to the floor measures 26 1/2 in. on passenger side and 28 1/2 in. on drivers. The numbers are roughly the same on the back, except they're around 26 and 28. Any one else have any suggestions on where to look next. I don't think it's "preload" from the springs because although they raised the car up a couple of inches, the differences stayed the same. Any good suspension guys around here in the Hampton Roads VA. area? Any suggestions?
Thanks,



------------------
JR
My 69 Convertible (http://www.erols.com/ruther/69conv)

Body bushings, front/rear suspension bushings? How many miles are on the car?

------------------

Springfield, Ohio

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>name: D.G. & my 70 Malibu
<LI>http://www.wright.edu/~adams.41/chevy.htm
<LI>TEAM Chevelle Member #0086
<LI>eBay username: dg98adams
<LI>"Failure is not an option. It's bundled with your software"
[/list]

I don't know if it would equal two inches, but have you checked the body bushings? I'm wondering if those are shot on one side, it could cause this? Probably unlikely, but it would be an easy check...

Ha...I guess we posted about the same time http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Also, may be obvious, but you have the same sized tires on both sides? Again, better to eliminate the obvious...

Beyond that, perhaps the control arms had been changed on one side to the wrong ones...?

This is a tough one...
Not to be mean or anything, but have you checked the obvious? Are the tires the same size from side to side? They all have the same pressure? Try turning the car around the other way in the driveway and see if it changes?
Did you replace all 4 springs or just the fronts?
I don't know much about the details of these cars, but are the springs the same from side to side? Are they in on the wrong sides?
You dont' have a gas shock on one side (like a KYB) and a non pressure on the other do ya?
Does the car ride OK or does it seem like the suspension is bound up on the high side?
Was the car in a wreck and maybe.... the sway bar is bent? (try disconnecting one end of it) Was one of the spindles replaced with one of the tall ones? (don't know if that one is even possible)
Is one of the a-arms bent?
Jimmy Hoffa isn't stashed in the quarter panel is he?
That is all I can think of for now.
HTH
Later
K

The car has 126,000 miles on it. The passenger side rear quarter has been replaced. I could tell by looking inside the trunk and seeing the "line" along the quarter. All 4 coils along with shocks and all and I mean ALL the body bushings. The convertibles have a couple extra and all were replaced. The front lower control arm on the passenger side looked like it had been bent in the front, so it was replaced along with new bushings. One thing I noticed before I put the body bushings in was on the passenger side inner wheel well seemed to sit lower. I mean, leaning over through the emgine compartment, I could get 2 fingers under the drivers side all around it, but on the passengers side, it set right down on the upper control arm. Does that make sense? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/confused.gif Even the "rubber flap" seemed to be lower on the passenger inner wheel well than on the drivers side. I haven't checked it since I replaced the body bushings. Could the rear upper and lower control arms (either the bushings or the arms themself) be causing the car to lean? I don't know if the car has been wrecked or not, but everything seems to point to the passenger side. All the tires are the same, that was the first thing I checked. The chevy dealer also let me take some measurements while he had it up on the "pull up on" type lift where all four wheels are on the lift and the measurements were basically the same as the ones I took in my garage. Any other ideas.
I love driving the car and just can't stand the the thought of what it must look like from behind going down the road! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/frown.gif


------------------
JR
My 69 Convertible (http://www.erols.com/ruther/69conv)

[This message has been edited by jerryr (edited 01-31-2001).]

I wonder if the sheetmetal isn't sagging somewhere on top of a body mount. You may need to try a combination of shims under the body mounts and springs.

Randy, exactly where I was going, thanx. I have already ordered the shim kit from Year One. I was just hopeing I could find an easy fix. (but aren't we all). I'm really stumped over this. I just want the outcome to be the correct fix for the problem.

------------------
JR
My 69 Convertible (http://www.erols.com/ruther/69conv)

Hi Jerry - I do recall your earlier posts on this problem.

Wow - a two inch difference from one side to the other. It just shouldn't be THAT much and, to be honest, I think shimming it that much will just be masking the real problem.

Did you take any measurements from the top of the axle housing to the bottom of the frame rail?

I went through the whole process of measuring ALL this stuff with my '66 Impala. Hard to tell without looking at it in person. Feel free to drive it up here to Fairfax. We'll but it in the garage, turn on the heater, and measure every friggin thing on it!

Dan

------------------
Awww, fer cyrin out loud, there's that IMPALA guy again.

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/ss3964spd?d&.flabel=fld1&.src=ph

Jerry,
You should be able to isolate the probelm by measuring from the frame to the floor at the same location on both sides. If the frame is actually sitting lower on the passenger side, then it has got to be something in the springs, control arms etc. If the frame is sitting level to the floor, then it has to be something with the way the sheet metal is mounted. One thing that comes to mind is to check if the springs are seated properly in the control arms. If they are not turned to the proper position, they would cause the problem.
Hope this helps,

------------------
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

1971 Heavy Chevy - original owner
Team Chevelle #100

Bill, (or anyone) I don't exactly understand why if the frame is lower on the passenger side, then it must be springs/control arms. I mean, if the frame is lower on the passenger side, then isn't the problem with the frame? Can control arms and springs make the frame lower? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/confused.gif http://www.chevelles.com/forum/confused.gif http://www.chevelles.com/forum/confused.gif

------------------
JR
My 69 Convertible (http://www.erols.com/ruther/69conv)

jerry,
BillK is correct and that is where you should start. The frame actually 'rides' on the springs and control arms so they would dictate where it would sit. I would start by measuring from the ground up to the bottom of the lower control arm (front and rear) on each side and compare. There shouldn't be any real difference there, it is just getting a reference point. Then measure from the floor to the frame in the front and rear on both sides. compare to see if the difference is there or not. If the difference is there, then like Billk says, there is a problem with the springs or control arms or something else bound up in the suspension. Make sure the springs are seated properly, the shocks are the same on both sides, the control arms are not bent, etc. It is possible to have uneven spring rates, even tho they are new springs. If the frame is level on both sides, then start looking into the body mounts, bent body, etc. It shouldn't be too difficult to narrow down where the problem is, but fixing it...

Bill C.


------------------
Bill C.
'71 SS (now with 468BBC)
'70 Nova 350/700r4
ACES #2780
Colo Spgs, CO

Very interesting spring rates yes someone may have given two different ones but how doyou check them.I wonder if one could put in a coulpe rubber wedges between the springs if this raises one side than i would think that spring is not the same as the outher one just a thought tho.

thanks guys, when I get it back in the next day or 2 I will check all that out. Thanks for your help.


------------------
JR
My 69 Convertible (http://www.erols.com/ruther/69conv)

If your frame checks out on measurements from the floor, check the rad support bushings and mounting area. This is a common area of rust and bushing breakage.

------------------
Triple Black 69 SS 396

Some good things already suggested...

If the frame is lower, than the suspension is the culprit I agree...I would also suggest, to check the spring mounts and the shock mounts for their structural integrity and/or previous repair.

I would be suspicious of any component(s) that does not appear to have the needed symmetrical properties (right to left of the car)...eg length of spring.

Your concern is with the rear appearance of the vehicle? It is nice of you to be concerned with the Ford driver's perspective. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Good Luck.

------------------
Bow Tied's 2¢ worth.

thanks again guys, once I get it back I'll print all this out and check everything. I'll also take some pictures with my digital and post a few and see if that helps....Thanks again.

------------------
JR
My 69 Convertible (http://www.erols.com/ruther/69conv)

Check the measurement from lower control arm to the frame, then from floor to same spot on the arm, on both sides,compare.This is where the measurements should be done not to the body, although the body is where it shows up.Good luck...FRED

------------------

I suspect that the main front crossmember of the frame may be tweaked. That front section is weak and that is why they sell offset upper control arm shafts. They tend to bend inward. This distortion may not be obvious measuring to the bottom of the frame but your comment: " One thing I noticed before I put the body bushings in was on the passenger side inner wheel well seemed to sit lower. I mean, leaning over through the emgine compartment, I could get 2 fingers under the drivers side all around it, but on the passengers side, it set right down on the upper control arm."

This might be a symptom that is really indicative of the problem. If your crossmember is tweaked by a bend inward on the passenger side it would lift that side and lower the drivers side. The only way I know you could be sure of this would be to drop the frame to verify it is symetrical through the upper spring mounts.

Now, I am by no means an expert on frames so this is just my attempt to solve a riddle based on information you gave so, it may be worth only what you paid for it! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

------------------
Redrum (or Mike)
68 Corvette - 383 CI 427 HP
69 SS Chevelle being updated to Pro-Touring
97 Z-28

Another thing you might check is the front stabilizer bar. Could be tweaked enough to preload the car to one side. If you un-bolt it and the car sits level, then you'll know.(Kind of far fetched, but it's worth a shot.) You could also swap springs side-to-side and re-measure.

I thought of a clue that might help determine if the front crossmember is the problem. Look at the shims used to align the front suspension. If the crossmember is tweaked on the passenger side I believe there will be none or few shims on one side and a bunch on the other side. (Or an offset shaft on one side.)

------------------
Redrum (or Mike)
68 Corvette - 383 CI 427 HP
69 SS Chevelle being updated to Pro-Touring
97 Z-28

It sounds to me like the frame is bent up on the passenger side front, probably just behind the wheel. Not to worry though. If it's not cracked, it's fairly easily straightened by a body shop with a good frame technician.

------------------
ACES Member#603
Team Chevelle Gold Member #285
67 Malibu Convertible
67 El Camino
67 Malibu Wagon (project)
67 C10 Pickup
70 Malibu Convertible
Peach State Chevelles
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/downs/2849

I had a similar problem just not to the degree you've had. I eventulally removed the right rear spring and trimmed the coil to make it work(then marked them to make sure they went back where they were suppose to). I think you'll see alot of chevelles that lean to the right side , Good Luck

Jerry, you can check the frame for "square" yourself, using some of the factory holes that are in the frame. A lot of the holes are used during frame manufacture.

Get yourself a plumb bob. Park the car on a level surface (garage). If you have a factory manual it will tell you which holes to use. If not, check around the frame near the front and rear for factory holes - they are typically oval. You'll want to find the holes that are in identical locations from left to right. You really want to find holes as close to the extreme corners of the frame as possible. If you have to remove wheels to get to the holes, support the entire car on jackstands - ensuring that they are of equal height (or at least the two in the front are the same and the two in the back are the same.

Once you've identified the holes, get a small marker or pencil. Take the plumb bob string and line it up against the frame rail so that the string passes over the center of the hole. Wait for the 'bob to come to a rest just slightly over the floor. Mark that spot directly under the 'bob pointer.

Repeat same for other three holes.

Move the car and measure the distance between the -

Left front/left rear spots. Note that measurement.
Right front/right rear. Note that measurement.
Left front to right rear. Note it.
Right front to left rear. Note it.

Compare your measurements. The two side measurements should be very-very close - to within +/- a 3/16 or 1/4 of an inch. Ditto for the "X" measurements folks with manuals can double check those numbers. Of the two, the "X" dimention is the more critical. That's the one that'll tell you if the frame is "racked" from side to side.

Good luck - do let us know what you find.

Dan

Just relocate your battery and install your nitrous bottle on the driver side. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

BillK said it all. I had a similar experience. Found it to be the springs weren't seated properly.However, since your measurements are about 2" different I'd check the spring rates.
It never fails, you get a screwed up parts and start chasing gremlins. You go in the tail pipe and come out the carburetor.

Loosen ALL of the control arm (front and rear) bushing bolts. Bounce the car and with the weight of the car on the tires, tighten the bolts. If one of these was tightened without the weight on the wheels, a pre-load condition could exist and cause your problem.

You should make the measurements from the floor to the frame as others have suggested. If the frame is lower on the one side, one possibility could be that when all four springs were replaced, maybe the front and rear pairs were misplaced to the sides. I am not sure if the springs are physically different so that such a mix-up could happen. This might be a stupid suggestion, but you might want to make sure it did not or could not occur.

I think the answer is in all these posts here so I will only add one more possibility.
Pull the door panels on the leaning side and see if it's packed with coke or pot or something. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif ( Just joking. )

Thanks for all the great advice. I look for anything and everything.
I'll let you know what I find. (unless it is pot or coke, then I'm kreping my mouth shut) http://www.chevelles.com/forum/eek.gif


------------------
JR
My 69 Convertible (http://www.erols.com/ruther/69conv)

i had a 69 coupe a few years back
had exact problem. turned out to be bad upper and lower control arm bushings in the front.`hope this helps

One question I have is, are you have a problem with caster and camber. does one side have more than the other? And the best method is measuring the Frame and Top of Axle housing. This will tell you where the problem is, body or suspension.

Thanks
Dave

------------------
383 SBC 69 Chevelle 410HP/500Ft.lbs
Citrus Heights, CA
http://www.x86Racing.com (Daves Pics)

One question I have is, are you have a problem with caster and camber. does one side have more than the other? And the best method is measuring the Frame and Top of Axle housing. This will tell you where the problem is, body or suspension. Also measure from the RF ball joint zerk fitting (that grease thingie) to the LF rear shock mount, the measure the other LF to RR. If anything is off your car will not be square..

Thanks
Dave

------------------
383 SBC 69 Chevelle 410HP/500Ft.lbs
Citrus Heights, CA
http://www.x86Racing.com (Daves Pics)

More great info! Thanks alot. I know it's there, just got to find it.

Dave, as far as measuring like you said, would it be best to have the car on stands so the weight is off the suspension or leave the car down?

Thanks,

JR

------------------
JR
My 69 Convertible (http://www.erols.com/ruther/69conv)

Jerry, I would leave the car on the ground for the measurement. Aside from being square, The key here is finding out if the frame is level. Then, finding out if the body is sitting on the frame level. Since the chevelle is full framed, it has to be one of those two. Good Luck.

------------------
Got Chevelles?
Jeff Carpenter
65 Chevelle/65 Elky (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/jeffc1.jpg)
67 Elky Project (http://www.littlecars.com/67.JPG)
Team Chevelle Gold #61

I have a 70 convertable that leans to the right side. It has a new quarter on that side. Was probably in an accident. It wasn't bad, just looked a little sad. I just got two air shocks- put them in the back and put a little more air pressure in one side. Car looks perfectly level now. Rides fine too. Not scientific, but a cheap easy fix.

I keep thinking about this one....

Is it the frame that is not level or is the frame level and the body is crooked on the frame?

Place the car on something level like a good flat parking lot or if you are really lucky, your garage.

Measure from the frame to the floor and then the rocker panel to the floor right next to where you measured the frame. If the frame is level to the flor and the rocker panel isn't, then you know that the body is on funky, right?
If the frame still isn't level, then the next step would be to measure from the a-frames to the bump stops on both sides. Are these the same?
Hm, nuts

HTH

K