I converted from the stock points to a stock HEI. I used a Ford relay under the dash. Ran a hot from the battery post on the starter to the relay, then to the dist. When I power the relay from either the "old coil wires" or the "ignition" on the fuse box the car won't shut off with the key. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/confused.gif

It's a SBC, stock HEI, stock wiring. Relay is grounded.

I put a switch in the line and it works that way.

If some has this setup or knows what I'm doing wrong, Pleas clue me in

Thanks http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

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71-72 Malibu (http://www.geocities.com/beldarr/Chevelle.htm)
"I'm high all right, but on the real stuff
High octane gasoline
A clean windshield
And a shoe shine"

You need to run your "hot wire" (ie. bat on the distributor) from a source that is dead when the key is in the "off" position.

It is, but there seems to be some sort of bleed (from the Alt.?) that keeps the relay hot. If I diconnect it it shuts off. It dosen't have power when the key is off.

I'm stumped, I had a guy help me that's done these before (never on a Chevelle), and he's stumped.

http://www.chevelles.com/forum/confused.gif

Beldarr
I'm not sure about the Ford relay, but I just hooked up an HEI. I ran a new wire from an IGNITION terminal in the fuse box to the IGN on the distributor. Works fine.

Hope this helps.

Wes

Beldarr,
Did the same thing as beau. I ran a new wire from the IGN terminal in my firewall block. I left my old restrictor wire tucked up into the loom (just in case I want to return to stock setup).

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Better Late than Never Fred
Team Chevelle #400
ACES #4055
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.
1970 Chevelle Malibu (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/Riffers70_1)

same here Beldarr just crawl under the dash find the box get a test light touch each prong when you find the one that works with the key on use it did you two use a 12 gague wire also.

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http://home.talkcity.com/sparkplugst/snakepell/index.html 66 396 Beaumont.
Once bitten twice shy.
Don Pell 66 396Beaumont.
Once bitten twice shy

I don't completely understand the whole "ford reley" thing, I was going on the advice of someone who has done this before. If nobody here can shed some light on this then I will just run the ing. to the dist. (makes more sence to me anyways).

Thanks guys, I won't do anything for a couple days, got some other stuff to finish anyways.

http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

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71-72 Malibu (http://www.geocities.com/beldarr/Chevelle.htm)
"I'm high all right, but on the real stuff
High octane gasoline
A clean windshield
And a shoe shine"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by snake:
.......find the one that works with the key on use it did you two use a 12 gague wire also.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heck, I got a 10 ga. running from hot to the dist. - through the dash. AND a 12 ga. running from the fuse box (ing.) to the dash. With a 12ga. grnd. back to the battery. Looks like I'm trying to wire the Space Shuttle http://www.chevelles.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

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71-72 Malibu (http://www.geocities.com/beldarr/Chevelle.htm)
"I'm high all right, but on the real stuff
High octane gasoline
A clean windshield
And a shoe shine"

It seems that you already have done the diagnosis correctly. The relay (I use the "Bosch" style) takes very little current to keep it turned on. This current can be present with the key off and the engine turning if you have a bad voltage regulator. This can give the feedback that you mentioned. I am not sure, but possibly a bad diode in the alternator can also do the same thing.Pull the connector off the regulator and see if the problem goes away.

There should not be a wire from the bat side of starter going to the Ford solonoid. There should be a wire from the Ignition side of the solonoid going to the distributor. The way you have it wired now the distributor is always hot. Key on or key off. Will send a drawing if you want. Jon
The ford solonoid is a good thing. You can also put a power switch in the line to shut your electrical system down. Good theft and safety feature.

You are right: The alternator is producing enough power that some bleed through keeps the relay open even when you switch off the car. Relays require almost no power to keep them open, so you have to install a little one-way valve to keep power from the alternator from working back into the ignition circuit even when the ignition is switched off.

I had the same problem.

I have a similar configuration, but I kept the relay under the hood. I used the old power wire from the points-type ignition to trigger a relay. The relay supplies power to the HEI from a battery-power distribution block. I also upgraded the charging system, which includes an internally regulated alternator (a 12si).

There may be two ways to fix the problem, depending on your configuration: Power your HEI from the ignition wire from the steering column (as the factory did with stock HEI), or install a diode in one of the alternator wires (when using old ballast charging wire as relay trigger).

The expert in this matter is Mark at MAD Enterprises 559-539-7128. He knows everything about automotive electrical systems. He has inexpensive kits that should fix your problem…or he may be able to tell you what you need right over the telephone.

I would rather not give you specific instructions for my fix because it may not be appropriate for your application. It would be better if you talked to Mark first. This way you will be sure it is right.

I purchased MAD’s HEI wiring kit, but chose to use a relay instead. The direct wiring method of the HEI wiring kit has obvious advantages. The biggest advantage is eliminating the relay as one point of failure. If you already have a place to run wire through the firewall, this may be your best choice.

I used a relay because it simplified my particular installation.

Cool, Now I want to know "why the relay", what benifits do I have by having this "ford" part spliced into my GM auto ???.

http://www.chevelles.com/forum/confused.gif

I have room to run wire where-ever, should I forget about trying to add the relay, or is there something about this set-up that is somehow better. Or does it realy depend on the situation and one way is as good as the other when all said & done ?

Thanks
Edit
Wow, totally missed your guys' post (jonh & JWagner) http://www.chevelles.com/forum/redface.gif I'll check the charging system, sounds possible since it hasn't seen attention in 30 yrs. And yes jonh, I could use something written on paper, can you email it?


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71-72 Malibu (http://www.geocities.com/beldarr/Chevelle.htm)
"I'm high all right, but on the real stuff
High octane gasoline
A clean windshield
And a shoe shine"

[This message has been edited by Beldarr (edited 06-11-2001).]

In a stock points application, if the Chevelle is wired like my Camaro, there is switched batt that has a resistance on it to reduce operating voltage. There is also a batt source running from the starter that is used to boost starting.

By-passing the resistance wire by running a new one or strapping around the resistor is all that I know is needed.

For those using a rely, is it just to provide a switched source of batt? ...Turn the key, rely operates and provides batt to the igninion...

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...Dennis
www.camaroslimited.com (http://www.camaroslimited.com)

The relay was probably recommended to you because it simplifies getting battery power to the HEI on a former points-type ignition car. It allowed me to avoid running new wire through the firewall.

It is not necessary to use a Ford relay, however. Any relay will work, though a Bosch 30A relay is considered by many to be the highest quality available. I keep a spare in the car anyway.

If you didn’t know already, the wire that powered the points distributor has a resistor attached to it from the factory. The resistor limited total power output. Seems wrong, but the factory points-type ignitions did not work properly with full battery power.

HEI ignitions, on the other hand, require full battery power. Using a relay with the stock resistor wire as a trigger is an easy way to get ignition-switched full battery voltage to the HEI.

The other advantage to the relay is running all new power wire for the HEI. Electrical accessories, including the HEI, are only as good as the power supplied. If wired properly the relay configuration should provide full battery voltage to the HEI with no loss. Test it with a digital voltmeter to be sure.

Check your voltage inside the car compared to voltage at the battery with the car running. Running a direct wire from the ignition to the HEI is still a great idea, but not if voltage to the interior wiring has been compromised. It is a 30-year old car, after all (but always worth fixing!).

Soldier and shrink-tube all connections used in your charging system. Lightly oil all terminal connections. Plan on being disappointed later if you don’t.

This is somewhat unrelated, but check to see that you do not have original battery cables made of aluminum as I had in my ’74 full-size (the Chevelle’s cables had been replaced when I bought it, so I don’t know what it came with from the factory). The brittle aluminum breaks down and causes bizarre intermittent problems (but not your run-on problem). I recommend MAD Enterprises custom-made Radi-Flex cables for top-post batteries. I prefer side-post mount, and purchased new, heavy-gage pre-made copper cables from my local parts store.

I think I'm begining to understand, the relay is for ease of installation in aplications that have no availible 12v. source and to have "new" routing. And the direct method would be for applications where new is not req'd. or wanted and an 12v. ing. source is availible.

Thanks guys, A wealth of information http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif



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71-72 Malibu (http://www.geocities.com/beldarr/Chevelle.htm)
"I'm high all right, but on the real stuff
High octane gasoline
A clean windshield
And a shoe shine"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 66 Beau:
Beldarr
I ran a new wire from an IGNITION terminal in the fuse box to the IGN on the distributor. Works fine.

Hope this helps.

Wes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I did the same here. Always carry extra fuses just in case.



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Undee's70SS (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/undee70ss02.jpg)

I do like Gordon70 does, use a 30a Bosch relay or one from Radio Shack (6 bucks) keep a spare in the trunk along with a test light. Also in a real emergency you can run an alligator clipped (at both ends) 10/12 guage wire from the positive terminal on the battery to the Batt terminal on the HEI. Have used the Radio Shack 30A relay for right at a year so far with no problem, by the way. For what its worth some other things you might to want to look at for reliability purposes is at least a 4 guage ground cable from the battery to the block and insure that your cables to the battery are clean. Also don't forget a good ground strap from the motor to the firewall/body.

I don't know much, but I hooked up a wire from the fuse panel to the dist. No problems.
I did read somewhere that you should not use the old hot wire from the coil. Either not a thick enough wire or it is not the right voltage.

Beldarr-

I think you've made an electrical mountain out of a mole hill http://www.chevelles.com/forum/eek.gif

I can understand the use of the relay (by the way, any relay would do of the automotive varity, I don't understand the need of the "ford" relay). BUT I would HIGHLY suggest this ultra-complicated procedure http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif :

Run a 12 guage wire from the "IGN" terminal on the fuse box, thru the firewall and to the +12 supply terminal on the HEI cap. DONE. If this doesn't work, you have other electrical issues.

This is ALL that is needed!

You're right coppertop, this was supposed to be a simple project - Murphy's Law again.

I found the problem http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif , it's a bleed from the charging system. I took off the wire from the Alt. and it worked fine.

I guess the reason for the "space shuttle" wiring is the direct route doesn't supply a full 12v to the coil (according to this HP book). I'm running another wire thru the firewall (direct hook-up) while I'm there just to test that theroy also, can't hurt.

The reason for the Ford relay was just coincidence, any 4 prong relay should work. Thanks guys, this post should come in handy for the next guy, I think we covered just about everything. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

I'm off to tidy things up http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif


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71-72 Malibu (http://www.geocities.com/beldarr/Chevelle.htm)
"I'm high all right, but on the real stuff
High octane gasoline
A clean windshield
And a shoe shine"