GROUND WIRE FROM FIREWALL TO MANIFOLD. GET HOT AND
SMOKES WHEN STARTNG CAR

Sounds like a bad connection of negative battery cable to block or a bad battery cable.

It wouldn't hurt to put a larger ground from the engine to the frame, and from the frame to the body sheetmetal. I also have one from my negative battery post to the body sheetmetal. Can't have to many or too big a grounding. But not enough will cause problems.

Can't have to many or too big a grounding. But not enough will cause problems.
Careful wayner, we had this ground strap debate last week.

But I agree with you AND Dean :D

Originally posted by Herb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Can't have to many or too big a grounding. But not enough will cause problems.
Careful wayner, we had this ground strap debate last week.

But I agree with you AND Dean :D </font>[/QUOTE]Ha! You're right Herb. I think we should just weld all the parts together then we can forget about this grounding stuff. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

But a car has no ground. Only a return (+12RTN) to the battery.
(Just goofing around but that should confuse a few people. Back to work for me).

Originally posted by John_Muha:
But a car has no ground. Only a return (+12RTN) to the battery.
(Just goofing around but that should confuse a few people. Back to work for me). Hey
come back here smile.gif

Originally posted by Dean:
Hey
come back here smile.gif Back where? I looked behind the monitor and ain't nothin back there.

Oh, thought you left

Neither frame nor body needs a "return" circuit for starter operation, only a good one to engine.

No starter current is supposed to be flowing through those braded ground straps.
(or the little wires that get fried) smile.gif

Barbara is wonderin why I'm laughing so hard. smile.gif

Originally posted by Dean:
Barbara is wonderin why I'm laughing so hard. smile.gif Probably figures you ODed on the root beer again.
The wire from battery (-) to the block is the circuit return wire for the starter/engine. It's not a true "ground". Wasn't (+) tied to the frame at one time in the days of yore?

Yep on my old Plymouths with the battery under the floor board. Was handy sometimes when it would fall through and drag by the POS GROUND cable.

Well if all of us drove a 10' stick of copper in the GROUND, we'd need a really long leash to go cruisin'!! (you guys crack me up).

Originally posted by John D:
Well if all of us drove a 10' stick of copper in the GROUND, we'd need a really long leash to go cruisin'!! (you guys crack me up). Yes, but the connection would corrode and you'd still have ground problems. Muha is just trying cause problems, yea there is no 'earth ground' in a car. Um? Unless you run on steel roads with no tires, just the rims, like a train, yea that's it!

Yeah but Dean's talking about old Mopar stuff again.

thanks

It's not like I didn't warn you this was going to happen. Oh well, here goes.....

Actually, in pure electrical engineering terms it really is a supply and return. And, those cute little ground straps look just like the big ole negative battery cable to any sperious "e" (AC or DC) looking to go home. Electrons don't know those are only there for noise suppression. It is an interesting approach though to use the age old, tried and proven "smoke test" trouble shooting approach to finding a faulty ground cable connection by using those cute little straps (and one other little wire) to bond the body, engine and frame to each other. It is the factory design, but a poor one IMHO. But then, I'd probablly be inciting another wave of debate and scurious comments if I said that. So I won't. :D

I like the ground rod approach. It would also eliminate static arcs at the gas pump. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

But you are right in many respects. The design relys on cast iron, rusty steel, and sheet tin to provide the return to the battery. After all, it's just "ground".
The only thing they got right was to try and common point the ground or the return line. The engine and items tied to the engine have the return via the large ground cable. All other items return via the 12 gage wire from the inside fender. This often gets removed. The problem with pulling this off is that the entire car goes dead if there is a problem with the main ground block connection (without straps). Better to the fender wire attached. The lights will work and that may make a difference when stranded on the road at night.
My 72 doesn't have ground straps nor does the design need them. Never had them from the factory.
In 71/72 and in later years, there is nothing tied to the frame. Also they tried to shield the points. They are 2 (PITA) covers that go over and interlock over the points below the rotor. A small screw in each one holds them down and grounds the shield. Seems to work at holding down interference. I don't have any extra filtering for the radio but those shields are really something to take off and install. A guess is that a lot of these were thrown away over the years.
Changing to HEI would also quiet things down.

Originally posted by John_Muha:
But you are right in many respects. The design relys on cast iron, rusty steel, and sheet tin to provide the return to the battery. After all, it's just "ground".John without that wonderfull design you'd get bored here. You'd probably be out on the streets getting into to trouble.

As opposed to being here and getting into trouble... :D

Yeh, when I leave the house the wife usually says to have fun and don't get lost.

Exactly the opposite of what mine tells me...