I know theres a problem...

My starter often has trouble (thought it was heat soak), where you turn the key and it will "click" but not turn over... Sometimes it will do this 2 or 3 times, and then just fire up... This happens when stone cold or really hot...

So I am thinking its in the starter...

But the last time i started it, I noticed smoke from under the hood (I had the hood up, and the motor had to be turned over for a minute or so... In storage for a few months)I turned everything off, and checked it out. Restarted it and drove it around, it was fine... Upon further inspection, I find that the wire to the coil was burning down near the juction box (fuse box)...

I converted the car to an HEI, and spiced the coil supply just a few inches from the fuse box. It appears that the remaining factory resistance wire is what was burning...

Could this be from a bad starter?

I was going to order a new harness, but I want to try to find the problem first... Don't want to burn up the new harness or my car...

Scratching my head a little here. I'll toss out some thoughts on what I think happened and maybe someone will correct my thinking. Just thinking out loud.
I see the two problems are related to each other. What caused the resistor wire to burn? Low voltage, high current. Most of the original resistor wire and the yellow starter wire had been removed. But part of the resistor wire remained. Wasn't enough voltage to provide the HEI what it needed so current went up and burnt the series resistor. Sound backwards to anyone?? Solution: When you replace the harness perhaps order a custom harness with a proper HEI wire or put a HEI wire directly to the fuse block. Don't use part of the resistor wire. Too small a gage anyway.
The "click" sound is coming from the solenoid. In most cases it's a low battery that makes this happen. However, you indicate that is catches after a few tries. Maybe a starter beginning to go out. This could be the reason the battery voltage is low during start-up. Suspect that if you measure the battery, while cranking, you may see the voltage drop way down. My opinion.
Replace the starter and solenoid. If it is starting to go at least you won't get stuck on the road. Make sure the battery is in good condition. Check/clean the battery connections on both ends sides (starter, block) for a good connection.

i had a simular problem a while back, turned out to be a short in one of the small starter wires, had shorted against the header, the hole lenght of wire to the bulkhead connecter was slowly smoking.

If it clicks but does not turn then I would guess bad solenoid. The solendoid does two things, pulls the gear into the flywheel AND provides a high current switch to provide battery power to the starter. The switch contacts are probably pitted.

I've seen this several times. In almost all cases, the positive battery cable "between the battery and starter" has corrosion in it. It clicks from the lack of current. The smoke is from the burning shielding.

The solution is a new positive battery cable.



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Regards,
RLK
My Cars (http://home.texoma.net/~rknipe/)

Thanks for everyones help on this...

The battery is newer (bought last year), the cables are new (the smoke definitely came from the fuse box/firewall area, not the starter cable).

When I order a new harness in a few weeks, I will specify no resistor wire, full 12-volts to the coil...

I guess i will also bit the bullet and get a new starter...

I’m just curious, as it’s hard to come up with a reason for the short resistance wire to heat up and smoke the insulation. You may already know the factory insulation on the resistance wire is fiberglass so any smoke is oil that has collected over the years. The original coil had two wires connected to the + post. The one you modified and a yellow wire that connected to the start solenoid. You did disconnect the yellow wire, right?

As for the starter- Depending on how old or how much use it has had, you may only need to replace the solenoid. Inside the solenoid there is a copper disc that makes contact with the bat cable terminal and the starter-winding terminal. This disc rotates each time you start. You may have a bad section on the disc that will cause intermittent starting problems. When I was younger and money was tight I would take the solenoid apart, flip the disc over and file the terminals smooth, almost like a new solenoid.

Elree,
Thanks, I will try a new solenoid first...

As for the burning wire... It is pretty obvious (I can see where the tape wrap has burned, back near the firewall junction... I think that harness has the starter wires, coil wire and nothing else (heater removed, mechanical oil guage and wipers disconnected)... So it wouldn't be the coil-to-starter wire... funny thing is, that even though there was enough smoke to clearly see it(with the hood up), it still works...

I have the flywheel out, so nows the time to check that solenoid...

Thanks again everybody...

Well,

Its been a long time, but just wanted to thank everyone here for their help...

I removed the connector from the resistor wire and soldered it to a piece of regular wire to supply the full 12-volts to the coil. No more problems with the smoke and burning wires... I think the smoke was the electrical tape wrapped around the harness (not original tape)

As for the starter, turned out that the large stud (that the positive battery cable attaches to) was loose in the solonoid... I tightened it up and I have not had the intermittant starting problem again...

Thanks again...

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"Once you go RAT, you never go back..."
TC #1366
Tony
The Chevelle (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/1966_L78/ChevelleA.jpg)
Dual Quad 396 (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/1966_L78/ChevelleC.jpg)
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[This message has been edited by 1966_L78 (edited 01-15-2003).]

I know it's a little late but anyways http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif. I believe the problem was that the yellow? wire going from the HEI to the solenoid outside terminal was trying to provide power to the starter motor, from your newly installed wire. Since there is only a little piece of resistor wire, it has to handle all the voltage drop and really heats up.

When you install HEI you do not need the yellow wire going to the outside post of the starter solenoid anymore.

I can't think of any other reason that connection would get any hotter starting than it would when running.

Peter