I'm stumped over this one guys...for the past few months or so my battery seems to drain off if the car isn't started and run every 2-3 days. Once it's started it cranks right up after being shut down. It takes a charge okay when I've had to recharge it and passes load tests just fine. It's just when it sits for a few days without being started that I often find it getting weaker and weaker until it just won't crank the motor...lights work okay just not enough juice to spin the engine.

Now I'm on my second battery (hoping it was the battery itself) and it's doing it again. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/mad.gif I've checked to make sure that all components on the car are turned off and not running...I even removed the glove box light thinking that it might be stuck 'on' but to no avail.

Not sure if this helps, but I switched (one month ago - well after this problem started) to a new 'one wire' 63amp alternator, use an electric Comp140 fuel pump, fan, small 100 watt stereo amp, and an MSD 6AL ignition system.

Any ideas as to what is draining my battery even though everything in the car has been turned off? Electrical troubleshooting is my weakest link and looking for some help here...thanks in advance!

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1970 Malibu - Current 383 'Fog Fed' Stroker soon to be ZZ502 'fog fed' Big Fat Rat. Houston, Texas...Gold Member #39
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/wescolby2.jpeg (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/wescolby7.jpg)
Keep America Beautiful - Drive A Brute Force Chevelle!

[This message has been edited by Wes Colby (edited 03-17-2000).]

It could have a diode that is open to current flow both ways inside the alt, might take it to a good electrics checker to see if they are bad. Most good auto parts stores can check the alt for many problems with it off the car.

Second, take a meter or light and check to see if the MSD small red wire is completely turned off when the key is off. I have seen some limited current flow, just enough to drain the battery, in this MSD actuator circuit. Lets the engine stop, then starts up again, like you left the key on.

Lots of other places, brake lights stay on, etc, but I figure you already looked at all the obvious stuff.

Anyway, just a couple of things to check.

I'd have put the 78 amp 12SI alt on it. Just me, though.

If you have a current meter disconnect the positive battery cable, touch one lead of the meter to the battery post and the other to the cable to check for current drain. If you don't have a meter rig up a test light using a 194 dash light bulb. If you detect current drain it's just a matter of diconnecting things you suspect or removing fuses to find out what circuit is draining your battery.

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Steve Strasemeier (70SS 396, Fathom Blue/White Stripes)

Thanks guys...here's what I've done so far with no luck. Checked for current through the small red wire off of the MSD box with the key turned off - no current detected IgnitionMan.

Next, I tested every fuse from the fuse block one at a time. Checked for current as you suggested Steve and sure enough there was current (using tester light with ignition key off) but after each fuse was disconnected, there unfortunately WAS current still being drawn from the battery...so it's definitely not any of the fuses.

Next, just for grins I disconnected the red 'charging wire' (sorry but I know little electrical lingo) that splices into the positive battery cable (at the battery terminal), and the current draw stopped when tested as Steve suggested. Tried tracing that red wire but it dissappears into a thick maze of factory bundled wires and ends up on the right front side just behind the headlights - from there I have zero idea where it goes. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

One interesting note - I noticed that with that red wire disconnected at the battery terminal and the main positive battery cable reconnected, the car has zero juice...even the interior lights wouldn't come on...until I reconnected it back again...interesting. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/confused.gif

Any more ideas guys? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Wes,
The "large" positive cable supplies voltage to the starter only, for cranking. The small red wire you speak of supplies the rest of the car, including the ignition switch and all lights. It should make it's way over to the horn relay above the voltage regulator. I have a funny feeling that your alternator is causing the problem, though. With your test light in series with the small red wire, disconnect the wire from the alternator and see what happens. If a diode is bad, it will allow current to flow in the "wrong" direction. All the diodes should be in what we call the "reverse biased" condition when the car is not running..no current should be flowing through the diode pack. Check the alternator again.

Thanks Jerry...still learning. I tried exactly what you said and with the alternator wire disconnected at the alternator, I'm still getting voltage thru the smaller red wire. However, when I reconnected the alternator wire to the back of the alternator the test light gets noticeably brighter. What does that mean? BTW, this is the second alternator with the same battery drain problem. Could it be that I've just got horrible luck in picking out alternators with diode problems? My next step is to take it to NAPA and have them bench test it. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/frown.gif Any other ideas?

Wes,
Ok, so this may sound stupid, but have you checked the grommets behind the distribution block? That feeds the accessories.

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Better Late than Never Fred
Team Chevelle #400
If you're not the lead dog, the scenery never changes...
The '70 (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/Riffers70_1)

Wes,
When you converted to the one wire alternator, how did you do it? Did you use a jumper to eliminate the external voltage regulator? Sounds like your problem is on the firewall side. Just for grins, pull every fuse out at one time and again check for current draw. Also, where did you tap power from for the amplifier and the fan? Make sure they're not hooked up to the "feed" side of the ignition switch circuit. Lotsa stuff to check! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Riffers70, what should I check for? I know what you are describing but don't know what to check for or how.

Jerry, when I converted to the one wire alternator all I did was cut out the old 2-wire plug that my old alternator used to use and re-connected the larger single red wire (ie. one wire) to the back of the new one wire alternator. I also unplugged the old external voltage regulator to get rid of the 'alt' dash light that was constantly on since the switch to the new alternator. That's all I did and thought that that was all that needed to be done - did I miss something there? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/confused.gif

I've already checked each of the fuses for voltage and with each one removed, there was always current hitting the tester light. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/frown.gif Darn light would never go out.

I honestly don't know which slots I used for the amp and the fan...if both items are not turned 'on' when the key is in the 'off' position, how could it drain the battery? Please explain...thanks for your patience.

[This message has been edited by Wes Colby (edited 03-17-2000).]

Wes,
There's a jump that needs to be made when converting.
Check out the Tech Reference (http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref14.html).
See if it matches up with what you have.
As for the distributor block, just make sure the insualtor is in good condition. Remove the one bolt holding it on and make sure the metal of the block isn't hitting anything behind it.


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Better Late than Never Fred
Team Chevelle #400
If you're not the lead dog, the scenery never changes...
The '70 (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/Riffers70_1)

[This message has been edited by Riffers70 (edited 03-17-2000).]

Thanks Riffers, I checked out Wes's technical reference but from the way it looks, he's referring to converting your exhisting alternator to a 'one-wire' alternator. Mine is an actual 'one-wire' alternator straight from the box. I don't think that I needed to do anything to the old external voltage regulator because it isn't being used by the new alternator...just had to unplug it to get rid of the idiot light staying on.

I will check out the back of the fuse box like you suggested. Thanks again for your help!

Hmmm...I changed mine over as well and I recalled jumping two wires. I'll check tomorrow and see what I see.

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Better Late than Never Fred
Team Chevelle #400
If you're not the lead dog, the scenery never changes...
The '70 (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/Riffers70_1)

Wes, your alt has the jumpered regulator already, you don't need any other wire for charging. If you do want the idiot light to work, then find the light wire from the old regulator harness, and connect it to the number 1 terminal on the side of the alt. Light will work fine if the alt is in good shape. I've seen a few aftermarket one wires that had bad stuff in them.

It really does sound like either a ground problem or alt diode bridge gone away/regulator out. I do believe most of the aftermarket 1 wire alts come from off shore sources. I think the check will show something.

You can chance the internal regulator to a stock GM design, and make the jump from the outside, large batt terminal to terminal number 2 on the alt.

Had a simeler problim once the contacks in the horn relay were so rusted they were joined together.Check to see if the relay is hot after the car sits for a couple of hours.Mine would almost burn my fingers off hope this helps.If so let us know.DDP 396.

Thanks IgnitionMan...I will also try to find a bad ground. Snake, at this point I'm ready to try anything to find the culprit...where is the horn relay at? Thanks!

I believe the horn buzzer relay is located just to the right(as sitting in car)of the master cyl. try diconnecting the wires one at a time to see if a circut is staying hot.I agree that this is most likely the culprit

Oddball things that I have encountered that drain the battery:

clock (even if it doesn't work)
bad door switch that activates the dome light
bad ignition switch

I'd also look for things that a previous owner may have rewired (fusable links w/stranded wire) or wired around the fuse.

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OrrieG
64 Malibu HT Survivor
Gold Member #171

The horn relay is beside the voltege regulater or under the washer bottle on the rad suport left side.

Thanks snake but that isn't the problem either...I tested it and it still passes current thru the tester light with the horn relay disconnected. I'll keep looking...

OrrieG, in what way would a faulty ignition switch draw current from a battery. If the ignition switch is bad, how would you know? Being able to start her without a key?

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1970 Malibu - Current 383 'Fog Fed' Stroker soon to be ZZ502 'fog fed' Big Fat Rat. Houston, Texas...Gold Member #39
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/wescolby2.jpeg (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/wescolby7.jpg)
Keep America Beautiful - Drive A Brute Force Chevelle!

[This message has been edited by Wes Colby (edited 03-18-2000).]

I have to ask. Is your amp turning off? Usually, you need to run the main power wire directly to the battery (or another unswitched power source) and another trigger wire to the power antenna or other switched source. If you have the trigger wire in the wrong place ir the amp's power supply is acting-up, it may not be shutting down.

Could it be something in the light switch, The headlights usually don't have a fuse so the switch would still be connected without the fuses.

What about the cigarette lighter. Same as above.

Can't think of anything else that hasn't been covered right now.

Peter

Thanks Peter...good idea, I tested the power amp by disconnecting it at the fuse box...still getting the current draw.

As far as the light switch goes, I'll check it too along with the cigarette lighter.

I'm still curious about diagnosing a faulty igniton switch OrrieG. I think my ignition key tumbler may be bad because sometimes she fires off without the key in the ignition and other times it doesn't...kind of hit or miss - any relationship there?

[This message has been edited by Wes Colby (edited 03-18-2000).]

Hey Wes,

Try and screw with the MSD box again, sometimes the power drain from the box is not enough to light a test light BUT is enough to drain your batt. Disconnect the MSD power lead and see if the battery is still draining. Or call MSD Tech and tell them that this problem started when you istalled thebox(even though it didn't) and they will at the least tell you how to troubleshoot and possibly rule out the box as your source of the problem. Then if its not the MSD you can start rulling other components out.

Sometimes its best to see what works properly instead of looking for the thing that doesn't work. Just my .02

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67 Malibu Conv (always under construction)
mirabile95@earthlink.net

My truck ignition switch had an internal short to the accessory position. I was getting the drain and couldn't find it which made me nervous, at the time I would park the truck in the sticks for a couple of days at a time while hiking, fishing etc. With the auto I couldn't coast start it. Everything became obvious when the short got bad enough to fry the switch (lots of smoke). Luckly it happened when I was in the truck and had the fire extinguisher. I remember it because a burnt my hand pulling the harness off of the back of the switch. After I replaced the switch the problem went away.

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OrrieG
64 Malibu HT Survivor
Gold Member #171

Guys I really appreciate your suggestions so far...please keep them coming, cause' she ain't fixed yet!

I have checked so far: all fuses and fuse panel, horn relay, amp power supply, all interior lights, MSD iginition system, basically everything you guys have suggested so far but I'm still getting current draw coming from somewhere. I've yet to take her down to NAPA for an alternator test but I really don't think that it's the culprit either. Because when I disconnected the one wire from my one wire alternator, I was still getting current draw there too....arrrrrgh! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/mad.gif

I've installed a battery kill switch so at least I have 'some' band-aid protection against current draw. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/frown.gif

Does your stereo have a hot all the time wire for the clock or preset memory? My stereo in my 69 will drain a new battery in about a week if I don't drive it.

Thanks Mike but I've checked that into that circuit also and unfortunately it's not the cause...something else is still pulling current.

Wes, as an offshore electrician I've run across a few crewboats with a battery drain problem. Usually it's a bad alternator, but once I had to chase the problem for a few hours and found bad insulation on several wires. One wire was sitting in moist insulation and leaking just a few milliamps, which was enough to drain the batteries.

You seem to be on the right track tracing everything back to the source. You may want to try disconnecting the main feed wires one at a time and replacing them with a temporary wire to see if one of them might be flaky. You'd still have to have a complete circuit to ground somewhere though. Some carbon tracking or corrosion across from the starter terminals?

Keep shooting for it and you'll get it.




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http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Strip/4523/ElkyPage.html

Chad Landry
TC Member #643
'68 El Camino

Hey Wess when you get it fix let us know what it was.DDP 396 snake.

Okay Snake, I'll let you guys know as soon as I find the culprit...thanks Chad for the advice and thanks to everyone else for helping me along as well. It's bound to turn up somewhere and knowing my luck will be something simple that I've totally overlooked. I'll keep you posted though.

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1970 Malibu - Current 383 'Fog Fed' Stroker soon to be ZZ502 'fog fed' Big Fat Rat. Houston, Texas...Gold Member #39
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/wescolby2.jpeg (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/wescolby7.jpg)
Keep America Beautiful - Drive A Brute Force Chevelle!

Have you been talking about your rat conversion while in ear shot of your car? It could be just a revolt from the mouse that has served you so well. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Wes look over all the wiring in the engine area. I chased an electrical problem in a Grand Am for 2 weeks. It turned out to be a crushed harness from the factory. There was no outward evidence of it. I just started pulling the plastic loom covers off and ran across it. Somehow during assembly the harness was crushed and it caused a power lead to be in contact with a ground. The insulation on both wires was damaged and eventually a few strands of each wire came in to contact. Not enough to burn either wire or blow any fusing, but it did cause a drain on the battery. The car was 6 years old by the time the problem surfaced.

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Philip Valentine
Gold Member #42
Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I regain consciousness

Dammit Wes, I was in Houston over the weekend! Well, we can't do anything about that now. You mentioned that the power drain stopped when you disconnedted the wire in front of the battery. That is the wire that goes to the fuse box and ignition switch via the horn relay. You might try unplugging the wire harness connector that goes to the ignition switch and see if that helps. I have a feeling that you might have a problem there since you mentioned being able to start the car without the key. If the switch doesn't seem to be the problem, try disconnecting the turn signal switch, and then the brake light switch. You want to try any switch that has power with the key off. Be ready to spend a Saturday afternoon on this

No Phillip, we never discuss the 502 plans in front of the 383...something about 'displacement envy' that gets these strokers all worked up. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/rolleyes.gif I'm afraid that if the obvious fix doesn't jump out at me soon, I may have to do what you are suggesting. Oh joy!

Thanks Randy, I'll definitely give your idea a try tomorrow...I'm hoping that it's the ignition switch. Guess I've needed to replace it and the key tumbler for some time now but just haven't gotten around to it yet. Thanks again fella's!

I had this same problem with my 69 after I changed to a one wire that was also bought as a one wire new from NAPA. After getting stuck begging for a ride to work a couple of times, I bought a one wire converson harness from Year One. Installed the harness (a large rubber plugg that pluggs into the end of the regulator harness)and have been running fine ever sence.
Dont know where the drain was? Dont care! just know it solved the problem and only cost 15.95.
hope this helps?

Try this; disconnect the NEGATIVE cable from the battery and connect an ammeter or test light in series with the cable and negative post.If there is current drain and every thing is off(glove box, dome light, Every thing, then look for the parasitic drain. Pull the fuses 1 at a time while watching the ammeter or test light. Don't take one fuse out and put it back in and take another out. Instead pull them out one at a time untill the light goes out or you run out of fuses. When you pull a fuse and the ammeter reads zero or test light goes out you need to find which circuits run to that bus bar(thats why you need to pull them 1 at a time and leave them out-current can find a path thru more than one fuse). An electrical schematic is invaluble here but you can find it by tracing wires. It's important to run the test this way or you could be on a wild goose chase and it's no fun. Let me know what you find with the parasitic drain test.

Hi Wes just a thought is the dome light staying lit.

Toanderson, you mentioned pulling the negative battery cable and running the test from there...is there a difference between doing the tests off of the positive cable or the negative? If there isn't, I've already tested ALL fuses twice now (using the positive cable) and was still getting a drain from another source...even with ALL fuses pulled.

Snake, the dome light does not stay on - man I only wish it was that obvious! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/mad.gif

One other test I did was disconnect both wires that run to the horn relay. You would think that that would have killed the drain for sure, but it didn't - still had current drain with the test light. I say that because I thought that the large single red wire (used to recharge the battery) went directly to the horn relay, or doesn't it? If I had the horn relay completely disconnected, shouldn't that have killed the mystery power drain? Confused.

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1970 Malibu - Current 383 Stroker soon to be ZZ502 'fog fed' Big Fat Rat. Houston, Texas...Gold Member #39
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/wescolby2.jpeg (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/wescolby7.jpg)
Keep America Beautiful - Drive A Brute Force Chevelle!

You should test with the negative cable and post, you are looking for a short to ground (from the component > body or frame > engine > negative terminal). If you use the positive terminal the internal battery resistence from the negative to positive posts becomes another factor. The dome light reminded me, are all your bulbs working? If one blows and shorts it could cause the drain.

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OrrieG
64 Malibu HT Survivor
Gold Member #171

Thanks OrrieG, that does make sense...I'll do another fuse panel check using the negative battery cable this time instead of the positive. And yes, all lights on the car are working fine.

wes...i had a similar untracelbe problem in my boat...
now i know this is the second battery but just check the water level..

a small /normal current draw will kill a battery with low water simply because the "reserve" or "capacity" isnt there...

i realize that its unlikely because you have the second battery in it but just be sure...

it solved my problem!

i thought batteries were still NO MAINTENANCE and this went on for a long time before i figured it out...
replaced the battery which solved the problem til it came back to haunt me when the water level dropped again in the new battery

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Rich
Cocoa Beach, Fla
Team Chevelle #380
46 but feeling like 20 when i'm in my 70 SS 454
wa3men@aol.com
www.chevelles.com/showroom/70_SS_454.jpg (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/70_SS_454.jpg)

Thanks Rich. That WAS part of the problem with my first battery. I bought it from AutoZone (big mistake BTW) thinking it was new and would be full of water...it was nearly empty! Anyway, this second battery is a new sealed battery so there is no maintenance to worry about on this one.

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1970 Malibu - Current 383 Stroker soon to be ZZ502 'fog fed' Big Fat Rat. Houston, Texas...Gold Member #39
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/wescolby2.jpeg (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/wescolby7.jpg)
Keep America Beautiful - Drive A Brute Force Chevelle!

I quickly read the posts and someone mentioned the cigarette lighter I think. I only mention it again because I didn't read that you tried it and this was the cause of my slow drain problem on my 71. Just reach around and unplug the connector and see if your problem is persists.

JP

had a car that the starter solenoid was shorted and drained the battery. Don't know if that would help but just a thought....

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Frank
69-454-456
Gold Member # 216