Hi guys I have a 66 beaumont 396 with points plan to install HEI. Someone said a wile back to remove the balist resister. I cant seemed to find mine am i looking in the wrong spot or is there not one. Any replys would be helpfull. Thanks fellow cars buffs

I belive you will find that the wire on the coil goes to the "R" terminal on the solenoid. HEI cars don't need the "R" terminal. They require a full 12 volts. Does that help?

You still need the wire from the R terminal of the starter, it gives 12 volts to the coil for starting, even with the HEI.

You need to change the other wire from the old coil to the bulkhead conncetor on the firewall to give a full 12 volts for the HEI.

This wire will be one of the wires held in the terminal that is connected to the old coil positive side, and will have a silver stranded conductor wire, normal plastic insulation and a covering that is plastic, the looks like a piece of woven cloth insulation. You can ohm trace the wire from the coil to the connector. Replace the resistor wire with a copper stranded 14 gage wire.

It is easier to add a wire on the outside of the loom, not take the loom apart to replace the resistor wire, as the resistor wire comes from the connector, past the coil area, half way down to the starter, and loops back to the coil, a good 6 to 7 feet within the loom.

You do need the wire from the R terminal, AND the copper wire that replaces the resistor wire to make the system work on both start and run. Both of these wires go to the 'BATT' terminal of the HEI cap.

Hey! IgnitionMan: What do you think of using a relay to put full 12 volts to the HEI? Your advice to replace the resistor wire is good, but why not get a more direct connection between the volts and the ignition?

You shouldn't need the "R" terminal wire; you should have 12 volts at the Bat terminal on the HEI regardless if that wire is present or not, if you have replaced the resistive wire correctly as Ignition Man describes. My 68 with HEI doesn't have it and always fires right up. If you providing 12 volts through the new wire while cranking (which you should be), the voltage provided by the r terminal won't be gaining you anything.

Although I'm not really familiar with the 66 Beaumont, I'm with Gene, I have converted three cars (69 & 70) to H.E.I.
I just replaced the restive wire in the loom from the bulk head connector to the dist. with # 14 wire and eleminated the bypass wire from the starter.

not necessarily disagreeing, I'm just curious here but......

I-Man, why would you still need the bypass wire connected if you have a good 12 volt source to the dist ?

JWagner, why add another source for future problems and make a simple job more complicated by adding a relay to the circuit
If you already have a good 12 volt source to the dist ?

(that's what the engineers at Carrier A/C used to do on their rooftop units, have a relay to pull in a relay, to pull in another relay)

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Dean Call
Team Gold member #3
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Dean: My reasoning goes like this. These cars are pretty old and so is the wiring. The ignition switch was not really intended to provide as much current as the HEI will take. The relay will allow the ignition switch to see a smaller load, which may be a good thing. The total length of wiring (and a fatter wire)from source to HEI can result by using a relay. I agree with your thoughts on complexity and I think that the relay is a good compromise. What got me going in this direction was my experience with putting HEI on one car that had some pretty poor wiring. By going direct to the fuse block, I still had unreliable ignition--the relay has cured the problems related to old ,creaky wiring.

I thought that if i were to install HEI that all i had to was to run one wire from the fuse block to the dist. So what about this r wire from the starter do i join it to something or tape it off.I had a 67 firebird that i installed HEI. Had a new harness made up. One wire went to the starter the outher was 12 volt. Is this the same way to do it on my 66.So what i am thinking is join the r wire to the new wire witch goes to the fuse boxs right or wrong. Thanks again for the help.

No, you can't run to the fuse block. You need the power to come from the ignition switch. Otherwise you will have power to the HEI all the time. Maybe Ignition Man can explain why the "R" wire is needed to the solenoid. The "S" line engages the solenoid relay. Don't see the need.
My advise, unless someone teachs me something is this.
Don't tear up anything. Tape and tie back the existing + leads that went to the coil. Go down to the boneyard and find the best HEI conector and lead you can find. Cut the existing wire near the bulkhead connector and solder your found lead to it.
Late model cars are good for something.

Ok but you can get power from the box with the key off

As far as I have ever seen, if the system has an R terminal wire, then the voltage to start the engine comes from the R term, not the ign switch on crankover, then from the ign switch when returned to run.

I have seen some circuits that have both the start and run voltage in the ign switch, but all the cars I have seen with the R wire need it to energize the coil for start up, and although they were GM, they weren't Chevrolets.

If the coil needed the power from the R terminal with the point system to give it voltage on start-up, why then doesn't it still need to be there by just changing one resistor wire to copper conductor?

The S and T terminal wires cannot be connected together, or the soleniod would stay engaged when the key was in the run position. This would happen because the R wire is connected to the coil, which is getting a resited voltage, and would keep the starter motor engaged.

If GM put the starter R wire position in the ign switch, then why did they add the R wire, and why doesn't the R wire come from the bulkhead connector instaed of the starter soleniod?

Pontiac people use the fuse box to run HEIs when they convert them over, they just find a switched voltage that is hot in start and run. Some of their cars even came with the right wires for both HEI and points, as they had an optional predecessor ignition to the HEI at one time, same time they had points ignitions too.

[This message has been edited by IgnitionMan (edited 03-17-2000).]

[This message has been edited by IgnitionMan (edited 03-17-2000).]

Ok Ingnion Man how do i wire it up do i find the r wire what colour is it.Also ithink i would join it to the 14 guage wire at the dist then where would the power come from.THanks.

Ignition Man
The "R" wire does come from the bulkhead. I suggested cutting the wire at the bulkhead and soldering a new lead with a HEI connector on it, leaving the rest of the harness alone. Are you saying that there is no power on that lead when the key is in the start position? Only in the run position?
If so, Chevy must have redesigned the ignition switch in 74 to change this. Maybe I learned something.
Yes, do not short the "S" or "R" lines. together.

Ok I see your reasoning no Dave, If there was no power from the ignition when in the cranking position, that would sure make sense.

The origional bypass wire from the starter was for the purpose of bypassing the resistance during cranking so the coil would get a full voltage for better starting.

I do know from experience, on a 69 & 70 Chevelle, there is power from the ignition switch in the "crank" position.
don't know about other cars though
http://www.chevelles.com/forum/confused.gif

JWagner, that makes a lot of sense too but alls you need to do is make sure you have all good clean connections and wiring everywhere. Wouldn't the relay make a car little easier to hot wire and steal ?

(still thinking)
and thinking and thinking and........

http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

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Dean Call
Team Gold member #3
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[This message has been edited by Dean (edited 03-19-2000).]

OK, basic R terminal information.

On those vehicles that have a wire connected to the R terminal of the starter solenoid, yes, the R terminal does connect to the bulkhead connector, but only this way:

The R wire rins from the R terminal on the sloeniod to the ignition coil (on point systems)and is captured in a coil terminal with the resistor wire, then the resistor wire runs to the bulkhead connector.

This system works this way: When the soleniod is energized by the key, the R terminal is connected to the main battery feed inside the solenoid, and sends full battery voltage through the R wire to the positive side of the coil for starting, voltage is also transferred into the ignition switch in the run position by backflow through the resistor wire.

When the key is teturned to the run opsition, voltages change and their paths change somewhat. The R terminal and wire are now disconnected inside the soleniod, and full voltage to the coil is stopped. The resistor wire from the run side of the ignition switch is then connected, to the coil through the bulkhead connector, and supplies resisted voltage to the coil for resisted running, and the R wire and terminal now carry resisted voltage since they are connected at the coil. The R terminal remains resisted as long as the key is in the run position, but is not connceted to anything when the engine is running.

HEI needs the same voltage paths, just not the resisted voltage to feed it in the run key position, so, the only wire that needs to be changesd is the resistor wire from the bulkhead connector to the HEI BATT terminal on the distributor, and retain the R wire for starting.

As I said, I have seen GM vehicles with only one wire to the point system coil, and no R terminal on the solenoid, but not any Chevrolet I have worked on, now I only work on early vehicles, 1974 and earlier, but the single wire could exist on some I haven't seen, only-I haven't seen one.

Only single wire setups (both start and run circuits in one wire) I have ever seen were on 1975 and later cars with factory HEI installed, not on earlier point equipped cars. Most HEI Chevrolet systems I have ever seen have two wires to the HEI BATT terminal, one from the soleniod R terminal and the other from the bulkhead connector, circuits just like the point system uses, but with copper wire in place of the resistor wire.

I'm with ignitionman.

Years ago, I remember trying to start my '65 Impala that had been sitting for years. It had power to the coil and fuel, but it would not fire when cranked over. Checked the spark and none was present no matter how much I adjusted the points. The thing would spark, though, when I turned the distributer with the key just on. I finally found that the R wire was not connected to the solenoid.

I know my Beaumont is different that the Impala example though. I powered the HEI from a terminal on the fuse block that was switched power (had some kind of switched power marking) after a friend told me that was what he did on his 68 GM truck.

I think most replacement ignition switches have the ignition terminal live in the on and start positions. This will then work with points and R connection or with newer systems such as HEI. I have also seen ignition switches with two ignition terminals. One live in on pos. and other live in start pos.

Looking at the wiring to the fuse block from the ignition terminal on the ignition switch, I find the older points car have a fairly light wire. It looks to be 18 or 20 guage. I always am amused by the posts to replace the wire from the firewall to the HEI with a 12 or 14 guage wire when the wire from the switch to the firewall is only 18 guage. I am going to run my HEI wire with the oil sender line right to the switch on the Impala since It has a heavy power wire to it but I don't trust the origional ignition wires from it.

Peter

It is my understanding that when you convert to HEI you can disgard the R circut, also known as the resistor bypass.

Could that be the reason why aftermarket mini starters don't have the R terminal on them.

I like the relay Idea, I wonder if you could wire the resitance wire to switch the relay, Will a relay switch w/ less than 12 volts??

If so it would make for a much cleaner wiring job.

As far as theft with the relay, the theif would have to recognize exactly what the realy was for and understand how it worked/ a long shot.

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67 Malibu Conv (always under construction)
mirabile95@earthlink.net

IgnitionMan, Thanks for the explanation of the electrical paths, I never gave much thought about the back feed from the resistive wire to the starter and dead ending there.
We are very fortunate to have knowledgeable guys like you to keep us straight. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Like I said I know the original question was for the 66 beaumont and I'm not familiar with it's ignition.
But...
I do know for a fact you do not need to reconnect the wire from the "R" terminal on a 69 or 70 Chevelle as there is no need for it.
It won't hurt anything to connect it but it will do absoultly nothing either (unless there dose exist a voltage drop through the normal circuit)

Keep in mind that all three of the cars I converted had pretty much stock engines but they all started and ran fine with no bypass wire. Maybe not good enough for racing engines, I dunno ??? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/confused.gif

Peter F. - Good point about the smaller wire from the ignition, that would be a good reason to run the new wire from the fuse block.
I have read several times guys say to use a 12 ga. wire, one person I remember (I think)on the Chevelle mailing list said to use a 10 ga. wire.

onabudget, Yeah you are probably right about the theft idea. In fact a realy might make it a little more simple to install a hidden antitheft switching circuit while insuring max. voltage.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned though is you need to make sure the source from the fuse block is hot with key in the "run" and "start" positions and dead in "acc" the position (and "off/lock" too naturaly)



------------------
Dean Call
Team Gold member #3
A.C.E.S. # 00235
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I see what Ignition man is saying. However, I still don't see the need to tear up the harness to make the change. This should work:
Leave the wires on the solenoid alone.
Disconnect the + wires on the coil and tape/tie them back.
Splice a new lead on the R wire at the bulkhead connector with an HEI connector. This will do the same thing as removing the resistor wire. It is quicker to do and a lot neater.

Dean: As far as theft is concerned, I think that the relay makes no difference. There are many ways to supply 12v to the HEI and the relay would not matter when someone goes from the battery terminal to the HEI cap.It is more likely that a thief will break the lock on the column and turn the switch without a key.
For the part about cleaning the current fuse block, I think that mine is beyond that; it really needs to be replaced and I was in no mood for that (yet).

My installation instructions for my systems say that no harness intrusion is nescessary.

Take a separate piece of 14 guage wire and add it to the resistor wire with the HEI feed connector on the BATT terminal of the HEI.

Run this wire outside the harness, back to the bulkhead connector, then identify the resistor wire coming out of the connector. Next, cut the resistor wire about an inch out from the connector.

Add a male bullet connector to the remaining one inch of resistor wire from the connector.

Add one each, female bullet connector to the remainder of the resistance wire remaining in the harness, AND the new 14 guage feed wire.

Connect the bullet connectors together for new wire and one inch lead, and you now have a non-butchered harness, and 12 volt power to the HEI. Since the resistor wire remaining in the loom doesn't go any place, the 12 volts now at the coil end of it doesn't hurt anything because it goes no place but to the unplugged female bullet connector on its end, just like the R wire when the ignition is in the run position.

I also make a changeover connection at the HEI end to take the stock point coil connector to the HEI connector, so I can change back to a point setup without having much hassle.

Relays are available to handle 10 amps to the run side, and actuated by resisted 9 volts or so, and this makes a great way to get the full batt voltage to an HEI.

Now, if you are converting a point ignition that needs the R terminal to start, the ignition switch certainly doesn't have the connection inside it to deliver start voltage in the start position, the R terminal does that. What makes you think the R voltage will magically appear in the ignition switch when the R terminal is omitted? Obviously, if the point ignition needed the R terminal for fire-up, so does the HEI. No magical or unseen changeover happens when the voltage paths are left same-same, and if the ignition switch doesn't provide both run AND R voltage to the HEI, removing the R wire from the HEI batt terminal and starter soleniod won't help start the engine.

For an ignition switch to actuate the ignition system in both start and run, the switch has to have both circuits in it to start with, and won't use the R terminal on the soleniod.

Mini starters use late model soleniods, and force early R terminal harness owners to re-wire the R power from another source, not the soleniod.

I just changed the starter motor and solenoid on my 1982 S10, and went from the later S terminal only solenoid to one with both S and R terms, the R term isn't used on my system, because my HEI power for start and run come from the ignition switch, but just having the R term doesn't hurt anything, it remains not connected to anything.

Simple, non-brain surgery, not NASA, not even, no need to bow three times twords Mecca, simple.

message removed

[This message has been edited by Gene McGill (edited 03-30-2000).]

Gene: I have had the same experience as you. I have one Chevelle which had the "R" terminal wire removed before I got the car and it still works with the HEI. Sounds to me like there are several types of switches out there.

Then I guess we have it setteled that there must be some type of car that's ignition switch is different than a 68,69 and 70 Chevelle and the 82 S-10 which are the same in that none of them need the bypass circuit reconnected.

Now I just wonder if any year Chevelles are one of them.

------------------
Dean Call
Team Gold member #3
A.C.E.S. # 00235
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Does the r wire have a colour.Iam not sure witch one it is there is a heat shield over the starter sounds to me that i have to join the r wire to the heavey wire to the dist.Is this wright. Or does someone have a diagram on how to install the HEI on my 66 Beaumont 396 thanks for all the help guys i would be lost with out you guys.

I believe it should be a yellow wire running from the starter "R" terminal to the coil "+" terminal
You don't really even need to mess with it on the starter, you can just leave it connected on the starter end (small post, farthest away from the engine block)and leave it disconnected on the coil end. You need to tape it up though because it is a hot wire when cranking.

All you need to do is run a wire that is hot when the ignition swhtch is in both the "RUN" and "START" positions to the H.E.I. "BAT" terminal.


------------------
Dean Call
Team Gold member #3
A.C.E.S. # 00235
Mid America Chevelle Club (http://macc.chevelles.net) #001
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Is this what Dean says is right .Ingion MAN.

Is this what Dean says is right .Ingion MAN.

Snake:
The bottom line is that you can't go wrong with installing it the way Ignition Man says to (with regards to connecting the "R" wire). The main point I was trying to make is that it is not neccesary on all applications, but if you unsure, particullary since no one with a 66 has said otherwise, it won't hurt anything to connect it. Without going into detail on how to determine wether you really need it or not, I would say the if the wire already exists leave it in.

To check the run wire for voltage in both start and run, connect a voltmeter to it, positive meter lead to the wire, and negative meter lead to engine ground, put the key in both positions, start and run. If voltage is present in both positions, and the R terminal wire is totally disconnected, the main run wire has the voltage you need fed to it in both key positions, run it.

Simple, kids.

Iwould like to say thanks to all that has replyed.One more mounth till I floor the 66 396 in Canada.Winter sucksssss.

Winter sucks is right. Hate it when it gets below 80.

OK, here we go again, I did some testing and checking, you are all right. in a 68 you can eliminate the resistor by-pass wire(yellow).
BUT, once again Ignition Man is correct. Pre-68 point cars need the by-pass.

I just installed all new wiring from the bulkhead connectors foward in my 67, also converting to HEI and a Mini-starter that does not have an R terminal.
My Problem, in Start I have no power to the coil and no R terminal to get me power, well after a days work, alot of checking and a few headaches and a bottle of asprin, I think I found a solution. Let me know what you all think.

1. Replace resistor wire,
2. Use 2 relays, give them both battery power,(easy on my car cause I have battery power at the firewall for the ragtop motor),
3. Have the Start circut(purple wire) switch one relay, then wire power out of the realay to the coil.
4. Have Run circut(replaced resitor wire) switch the other relay, then wire the power out of the second relay to the coil also.

Should work? What do ya think? It seems like when cranking, relay one will power the coil, then in run relay one will shut down and relay two will power coil, with good 12 volt power.

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67 Malibu Conv (always under construction)
mirabile95@earthlink.net

Easier still is to go to a good electronics store, get an NTE116 diode, and wire it and a 14 guage wire from the S terminal of the starter motor to the coil positive terminal. Cathode (silver band) around the diode goes twords the coil, so the coil voltage won't backfeed voltage into the starter solenoid and keep it energized when the key is returned to the run position.

NTE is the manufacturer, 116 is the diode number to use. I pay $0.78 for one.

You would still have to change the resistor wire, bt this way it would work if you already had the R wire, you'd just need the diode, then insert in into the S terminal and connect it to the existing R wire, then go.

No muss, no fuss, no relays or complicated cross-upside down-sideways wiring to do.

[This message has been edited by IgnitionMan (edited 03-25-2000).]

Never used a diode before, 2 questions???

1. Are they reliable?, in this situation if it goes, and backfeeds to the starter there goes my gear and/or flywheel.

2. The band on the diode?? I'm having trouble visualising which way the current flows.

Your help is much appreciated.

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67 Malibu Conv (always under construction)
mirabile95@earthlink.net

I use the same diode for the alternator actuation for those who absolutely must run a trigger wire from a switched source to run the internal regulator on late model alts, and I run the voltage from the positive side of the coil for the regulator.

Cathode is the flow direction controller inside the diode. It is a silver band around the body of the diode, and is twords one end of it. The cathode allows the user to set the direction of flow. Cathode is at the end that doesn't allow flow to go that way. Cathode end stops flow twords the non-cathode end of the diode.

I've never had an NTE116 diode fail.

[This message has been edited by IgnitionMan (edited 03-26-2000).]

O.K. Ignitionman, I like the diode idea, but the only place I have found locally, is not familliar with NTE diodes, he said "let me know how many amps the diode is rated for and I'll get you one"

What should I ask for?

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67 Malibu Conv (always under construction)
mirabile95@earthlink.net

12 volts, 5 amps.

Thanks for the help, IgnitionMan.

Another idea to solve the problem is to use a remote mount starter soloniod, that has provisions for the R wire.

And after jumping out the Batt and S terminal on the starter it will cure any heat soak problems.

And is a neat place to wire a remote start switch or theaft kill.

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67 Malibu Conv (always under construction)
mirabile95@earthlink.net

Yes, that would solve the R term problem for some, but adding another electrical switch is not a good answer for a clear cut fix. When a remote solenoid is added, the problem of still having and using the stock solenoid still remains.

I have found when a large diameter starter has a hot soak problem, the only thing to fix it is to cool it off, and I use a fan and ducting to do so. Definately, the starter has to be in good conditon to begin with, but directing cooling air onto the starter definately helps.

A mini-starter is also a great fix as well.

BTW, electronics and automotive electrics are my weakest area, why I build special HEIs, I don't know. Glutten for punishment, I guess.

[This message has been edited by IgnitionMan (edited 03-29-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by snake:
Is this what Dean says is right .Ingion MAN.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

about what ?

(I was wrong once, but that was back in 1951 I think)

http://www.chevelles.com/forum/confused.gif

looks like we (I) learned something about the pre 68 ignition swithching.

Good advice about the heat soak too I-Man

dont forget kids - K.I.S.S.

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Dean Call
Team Gold member #3
A.C.E.S. # 00235
Mid America Chevelle Club (http://macc.chevelles.net) #001
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My 69 (http://chevelles.com/showroom/deans69.jpg)

This has been beat to death but I feel like commenting in this "R" wire debate.

Earlier cars with points need only 9 volts to the coil. The battery can push 12 so the engineers build in a resistor in the coil circiut to correct for it. BUT when the car is started and the battery has to turn a big inefficient starter the availible current from the battery will drop, maybe as much as several volts. The coil will see an even bigger drop in voltage because it also has that resistor to deal with. This drop might be big enough to keep the coil from firing effectively. SO the engineers decide to bypass the resistor while the starter is engaged.

It is easier to manufacture a switch that has separate current paths rather than shared. The pre 68 ingnition switches have separate paths and the 68 and later have shared paths. This is why removing the "R" wire on a 68 still gives you voltage to the coil during start. The question becomes; Is that voltage going to be enough? If your battery is in good shape and your starter does not have to work real hard to start the engine then the answer is yes. (even with points, But the engineers couldn't always count on people keeping thier cars in good shape)

Mini starters very often do not come with an "R" terminal because they draw a lot less current than a standard starter and as such they should leave more current availible for the coil.

Ok, If any of this is BS go ahead and flame me. I can take it, IM MARRIED. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Clark
TC #68
Korea

Extra Kim-chi for you! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif Glad to see you're still checking in. Duty there going well?

[This message has been edited by Gene Chas (edited 04-07-2000).]

Hey Gene,
Yeh Duty is fine. I'm currently home on leave but I go back in 3 days. Got to drive my Velle though so things are good.

PS. I hate kim-chi http://www.chevelles.com/forum/eek.gif

Clark
TC #68
korea

Can someone explain why it's bad to have a full 12 volts to the coil?? Will this cook a points ignition?

Sweet...this post highlights the hell that I have been going through for the past 2 weeks.

Car: 66 Buick GS
Problem: Ignition cuts out randomly, no specific RPM. It randomly cuts back in, throws me against the seat when power is regained. Scary. Today it won't start at all.
Ignition System: Pertronix Ignitor

First, I cleaned up the entire wiring harness and made sure all the wires had good continuity. I tried to start it up last night, but it cranks with no spark whatsoever. The coil seems to be putting out no spark at all. This morning, I brought my meter out and checked to make sure I was getting voltage to the (+) side of the coil. Well, I am getting *12V* worth with the key in the "ON" position. My car's wiring harness is unmodified, and the feed from the bulkhead to the coil is supposed to be a resistor wire. So I figure either this resistor wire is shorting against a 12V wire inside the harness, or the yellow "r" wire off the starter solenoid is permanently supplying 12V, not just while cranking. Is this even possible? Could this be indicative of a bad ignition switch rather than internal arcing inside the starter solenoid?
I am thinking that the 12V to the distributor has FUBAR'd my Pertronix module, hence the lack of ignition now.
Thanks for all your help, guys.

Larry: I believe that the voltage drop to the coil is required to prolong the life of the contact points. I suppose the heat generated from power dissapation across the contacts will oxidize/burn up the point material.

[This message has been edited by 70L34 (edited 04-08-2000).]

The mechanics of the solenoid would make it darn near impossible for the r terminal to be hot without the starter cranking too. Theres basically a copper washer that is forced into the three contacts on the solenoid (Battery, starter lead and R terminal) when the plunger is pulled in.
If your ignition module is now an open circuit as a result of a failure, you would see the full 12 volts on the coil. The lower voltage usually assciated with a points system is while the points are close; with the points open, there is not current to drop the 4 or so volts across the resistive wiring. I'm not familiar enough with pertronix to say what kind of voltage you should see and when, but if it was designed as a direct replacement in your application, I doubt the 12v during cranking would hurt it.
Regarding the resistor question, I had read in an old Motor manual (or similar)long ago that you could tell by the points whether you have too much resistance or not enough based on which point contact had the peak, or the valley. I'm not sure which was which

Hi, just wanted to update everyone on my ignition problem. It ended up being the damn radio suppression capacitor which was grounding the (-) side of the coil through the capacitor's case. Boy was that frustrating. Special thanks to I-Man who thoroughly helped me out via email.

Gene, we also see resisted voltage in the R wire and solenoid R terminal when the engine is running, because the R wire is still connected to the coil positive terminal, and back travels down the R wire.

Points pit from two occurances, too much ot little resistance, and incorrect capacitor (condenser) load ratings. Old Motor's manuals show a way to check the system using a lead pencil, to get the right condenser rating for the application and for coil polarity. Old stuff, you must be as old as dirt, like me. Old Motor's manuals are fun to read through, just to see where we all came from in our performance vehicles. From downright simple to bizzare.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IgnitionMan:
Gene, we also see resisted voltage in the R wire and solenoid R terminal when the engine is running, because the R wire is still connected to the coil positive terminal, and back travels down the R wire.
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Yes, you would see voltage there. I was trying to point out that it would not be able to source the voltage that 70L34 was concerned about in his statement "... or the yellow "r" wire off the starter solenoid is permanently supplying 12V, not just while cranking."

And, yes, I probably am dating myself referencing Motor manuals, and especially not remembering what was in them. I use to like the vehicle identification with the head on shot of the frontend..they kinda lost the appeal whwen they started showing them at angles. Overall they where way better than Chiltons.

I agree, you could tell just which series and make a car was, not like today, they all look like the same computer designed them.