This is not directed at one specific person or comment. It is because of several comments that I must vent my frustrations. To those of you who believe that everything must be done the "right way" or "showroom stock" I say, "Why?" If I buy a chevelle and the cowl tag and vin reveal that it had a 6 cylinder and way butternut yellow, I'm not going to restore it to "like new" condition; because I don't want a 6 banger and I hate that paint color. I also am not going to search for T3s and WideOval and Polyglas parts because GE and BFGoodrich work just fine. I'm also not going to pay 1-2K for a pair of nos quarters when those scratch and dents for $25 at the swap meet are just as good. Yes, I do have a '70 Malibu 2dr htp, a '70 Malibu convt., and a '71 Malibu 2dr htp, and yes all 3 cost me about 5 grand. All 3 need only minor work and none will be restored to "like new". As a matter of fact, I'm in the process of swapping the 12 bolt from the '71 for the 10 bolt in the convertible. Many of you may find this awful, but I say, "Who gives a rat's ass?" It's mine and I'll do it my way, and if I wanted a "like new" Malibu, I'd go buy one worthless excuses for cars that is sitting on the Chevrolet lot. Now you know what to expect from me, so don't try to tell me that it has to be done "the right way"!

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Mike

Hopefully the internet will help everyone to come to a better understanding of all people. The fact that we come from all over the world and have very different view points on many different things, but we here have at least one thing in common,cars. A while back we where discussing street raceing and no one would condone a hundred miles an hour through a school zone but it's difficult for people who live in a large city to understand people who live in the country as out here ( southeren Texas ) one can drive all day and count the other cars on the road on one hand. I have an all original 71 SS Camaro that sets in the barn 99% of the time( basically useless ) and I have a 69 El Camino that is not all original and I don't want it that way ( see above for reason ) I intensionally put a cheap paint job on so I could drive the dog poo out of it with little worry. I guess what I am trying to say is we must try to be at least tolorant of each others conditions and tastes.
Harley

I totally agree. I have a 67 Malibu,454/th400 12 bolt posi bucket seats. If I went the stock route , I would be driving a 6cyl/powerglide 10 open rear.uh uh .not having any of that.You're car.Do what ever you want to it.

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JoeS
"67 Malibu"

I too have cars (68 supercharged Malibu, 65 supercharged Corvette) that are highly modified. I bought the Corvette specifically knowing it had the incorrect engine. The reason being I wanted to modifiy it to my heart's desire and not take away from the inherent value of an original. If you want to see somebody get mad about modifing an original just talk to Corvette people! Some of those guys are un-bending and un-wavering about originality. I personally am glad that there are people who will keep a classic car 100 percent original. This helps future generations appreciate what was actually coming off the assembly lines way back when. But it really comes down to your preferences; after all it is your car. I guess I do hate to see someone take a rare, highly optioned car (LS-6 all original or rare Vette) and modifiy it to death or butcher it but this is rarely done anymore. You just have to look at it from all sides and appreciate what is important to the individual. There are enough groups out there who would love to see our cars done away with entirely that we all need to stick together. Just my .02 Bob

I appreciate those who go to all of the trouble to make it exactly like it did when it came off of the show room floor - but I am not into that.

My Grant GT steering wheel on my 69 El Camino replaced the original and I actually gave the original to a purest who was desperately looking for an original for his machine.

There is room for all of us to enjoy the hobby. I have a friend that keeps his car in his basement! He takes the basement sliding door out once a year dives the car out across the grass lawn and just looks at it for a day or two and puts it back in the basement for another year.

I want nothing to do with such a car but I guess it is right for him.

John

Well, as someone who is going the stock route, with my L6 and PG setup, I can tell you it happens the other way just as often.

If I had a dime for ever time someone told me how much 'cooler' my car would be with a 350/350 setup, I'd be able to buy one of those Merlin 509's.

While I'm always open to suggestions, and really enjoy seeing how people build up their cars, stock or modified, it gets really tiring to listen to people tell me how my car could be better.

That said...If I have personaly offended anyone with the way I give advice (or lack thereof), I apologize. Being that my minor knowledge of Chevelles is limited to 'stock' Chevelles, I tend to lean that way, and I'm sure my posts reflect it.

Kurt

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The 68 Chevelle info page. [last updated Nov. 30, 98]
www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/6873/Chevelle/68_Chevelle_Info.html (http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/6873/Chevelle/68_Chevelle_Info.html)
Email: Kbyfield@terracom.net
A.C.E.S. #1352

I must have missed something here. The one constant theme of this tech forum has been 'it's your car, do what you want'. Some ask for opinions on which direction they should go and that's what they get.

There are many ways of enjoying a Chevelle - either showroom stock, modified, driver or whatever. To each his own.

Al

someone must have really pi$$ed this guy off.



[This message has been edited by Dillon (edited 06-28-99).]

I have a friend who recently got a 64 SS convertable. It has a 6 cyc and PG . I told him that only 1551 6 cyc SS convertables were built that year but he wants to put in a SB400 and a TH350. I will help him all I can. The real key on a car like this is to make mods that can be reversed. He is keeping the 6 and the PG and all other parts so they can go back in if wanted. For most cars, mods are the norm. The true classics like a 70 SS 454 really should remain stock. BTW, both my El Caminos are modified.

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Pat Kelley
66 & 67 El Caminos

[This message has been edited by Pat Kelley (edited 06-28-99).]

My 72 would be that puke gold color if I restored it to original. Yuck!! Original engine. . . yes, but with non-original parts (Crane cam, chrome valve covers, etc.). Sure, I have a lot of respect for those who restore their cars so they look like they just rolled off the showroom floor. But I also love the rumble of an ungodly amount of horses running around under the hood. Personally, I like to keep the sheet metal original (no repro parts) but that's me. But I'd customize the crap out of the engine if I had more money. Do whatcha want; if someone doesn't like it, just tell 'em where to go!!

Classic cars are meant to be enjoyed by the owner, whether they prefer stock or modified. I personally like both. I have a 70 SS396 which will soon be completely original, right down to the correct style oil filter, belts tires and air filter. It is a show car, documented, and I believe is a small piece of history. On the other hand, I also have a 68 Impala SS396 convertible that I have modified. Gear drive, big cam, Torker II intake-you get the picture. It really boils down to what the owner feels he/she wants to do with their car. I for one will not critize a modified car. It takes skill and ingenuity to 'create' a personalized automobile. But on the other hand, wouldn't it be cool to have a car that is exactly as it rolled off the assembly line? Time travel is not possible, for for a car buff, an bone stock muscle car may be a close to it as you can get. Let's respect everyone's preferences and enjoy our hobby, the way we like it.

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Dave

" To each his own" very well said al. If you buy it,save it from the crusher and spend a "small" fortune on it drive it like you stole it for all i care, just don't put one of those stickers with the guy flippin' me the bird 'cause I'll have to kick your ass just as a public service. wild bill

I agree with all of ya!! The Chevelle enthusiast can do whatever he chooses with his ride. If he has a rare collectable such as a 68 Yenko, he can bring it back to original condition. Or like me, he can take his formerly mild mannered El Camino and turn it into a wild street machine. The idea is for the Chevelle enthusiast to have fun with his ride, and have something to tinker with, race, or just plain show off!! Chevelles rule!!!!!

Sorry, but I'm a purist enthusiast. Way to go Kurt!!
I also agree that it's your car, do with it what you want.
My favorite car to see is a '70 SS that is done the way it is supposed to be done. I have done complete frame-offs and appreciate the time and $$$$$$ it takes to do one right.
What I hate seeing is, going to Super Chevy and seeing eight red Chevelles, and only three of them are supposed to be red.
Call me a nitpicker, or what ever you desire, just don't paint me Red!!! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

The pursuit of the original factory show room condition is certainly worthy of due appreciation. The meticulos work that goes into getting the car perfect down to the last chalk mark is admirable and a bit mind boggling. Myself, I like them both...original to the teeth and that mean cackity cackin 67 ss with a 671 blower making people take notice. Both are works of art, just the result of different pursuits. Just enjoy them all..live and let live.

Hmmmmm....I've been on this site for over a year and I've never caught any grief from anyone about doing it "the right way". Most everyone has been very helpful although I vehemently disagree w/ many that we need more pollution control. But thats politics. Do whatever you want w/ your car. I don't care. It's yours. But I'll help you if I can...

Hey gotapileof70malibu
I recall several months ago you were ragging on someone also. Why don't you just enjoy your car and don't jump on people when you ask for their opinion, otherwise no one will respond to your posts anymore.
Harvey

This site is all about sharing ideas, opinions and information on our Chevelles. If we start ignoring questions posted on this site, we are defeating the ENTIRE purpose of this site - to share information AND opinions about our cars - which in turn will encourage and/or inspire others. As a group, let's move forward and try to help EVERYONE by sharing honest opinions and ideas. Just an idea http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

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70' Malibu - 383 'Dental Gas' Inhaling Stroker! Gold Member #39
Chevellz Alwayz!

Along with Dave and Kurt I too am a purest,but that doesn't mean everyone else should be one.My view is if its your car do what you like.You won't get any arguements out of me.

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Dean Ciampi
Autumn Gold 1970 LS6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold #52 Aces #3094

Everyone here has said it all. My .02 cents. I believe in restoring a car that's worth restoring. My 64 has been brought back to factory spec for lots'a $$$, then I modified it. ZZ4 engine, disks, TH350 etc... BUT, all my original bits are cleaned and packed and everything I have done is bolt-on. Therefore the car is "restified" and I am happy with that, because I can return it to spec in a few day's if ever the need arises.

It a shame to see someone take a fine example of a car that could be restored, ie: good floor, clean panels and all intact. Then they get out a torch and tub out the rear, put in a roll cage, replace the interior with drag seats etc... These poeple could have gone out and gotten a car which had minimal floor and no interior etc...

Seen one guy in his early 20's with too much $$$, buy a beautiful restored 63 Vette and chop the hell out of it as I described above. I Never felt like the way I did, the day that I saw what he did to the car... I can't describe it but I guess you guy's can figure that out.

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The proud owner of a Canadian 64-SS with ZZ4 Power!
Team Chevelle Gold Member #37
Canadian Classic Chevelles & Beaumonts Member #350

That's it isn't it. These cars aren't getting any younger. I deliberately bought an original 67 SS 396, w/o the original motor because I wanted to make a 427TRI "maybe could've had the dealer install an L72" type deal ala Skip Cain's ride. But along the way to finding a good body I saw too many cars where some kid had learned to use a cutting torch. What the F ?! Butcher a damn Ford or Toyota, not a 69 Camaro or a 71 Chevelle. Geez. If I just wanted a drag car I could've bought the gazillion 3rd gen Camaros out there for sale.

Any car done right, whether original or not, is nice to look at. Hack jobs give all our classics a bad rap. I'll tell you that my friends 509 Camaro is highly modified. But it's metal, paint, and overall workmanship are superior. I'd buy that car from him in a heartbeat. Sure it a 6-cyl powerglide Vin. Al least he doesn't run SS badges all over it. It's just seamless black. Good choice.

So I agree with Gottaplie of and I also agree with Canuck. My "decision rule" is simply show me a quality redo that the original car deserves, whether it's original or HiPo. I hate to see hack work of any type, but especially on a classic vehicle.

If I have any personal choice over the matter I think we all should be building more big block 4 speed cars. True muscle classics.

We here at TC should support high quality workmanship on our classics and let the anal retentive freaks spin ad nauseum about whether the goddamn radio button is "correct". Those dudes don't drive their cars anyways. Most of us live to.

Gene Chas
TC Gold 062
'67 SS 396

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[This message has been edited by Gene Chas (edited 06-29-99).]

The thing were looking at here is we all have different opinions. How many times have you looked at someone and the first thing you said was "I would have" or "I don't like". And when someone is proud of something they made or did you were jealous or resentful instead of being happy for them. The next time think about what that person might like to hear before you voice your opinion to them.... Just my .02 thanks

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Frank
69-454-456
Gold Member # 216

One other thought. I have an original Heavy Chevy...only about 6,000 or so made in 72. I like to race so I am required to put a roll bar in the car, master cutoff, fuel cell, rear firewall, window net etc in it. Do I like doing that to my car? No. Do I have to? Yes.. it may also save my life someday. I'm trying to do it all as tastefully and discreetly as possible. Now I'm not ragging on anyone. Some like chocolate, others vanilla. A purist might think I'm hacking up my car but when I hear/ see purist type people bragging about how fast their big block Chevelle is I kinda chuckle usually. Reminds me of my father who brags how fast his Dodge Stealth is but has never been to the track and he 'bout had a coronary when I drove it, dumped the clutch and he really wigged out when I got the tach close to the FOUR grand mark. [ I was gonna take that 'Slopar at least to 6500 rpm!] Most of the street racing little bitty 302 ci Mustangs in my town can put those Chevelles in their dust. Some purists think their cars are fast and they are in reality a slow joke. On the other hand some people hack up a nice Chevelle and think its beautiful--its not. Before I got into muscle cars I thought the Chevelle was about the ugliest car that ever graced a highway. Then the racing bug hit. I still don't think they are 'pretty' cars but I appreciate anything that someone spends a lot of quality time on whteher it be for racing, show, or just to relive old memories. Whatever, someone chooses to do we should appreciate their quality effort put into their hobbies. Honestly, like I said above I don't see any serious criticism of others on this site. I hope it stays that way. I will help in whatever small way I can.
Geez, where was I going w/ this? Off, my soap box..

What gets me is last night I read both Hot Rod and Popular Hot Rodding. (can't remember which had the story) One is doing a story on an ORIGINAL 1970 LS6 Chevelle Cortez Silver, MINT condition, low miles, 2 previous owners. They show where they just happened to be looking in the glovebox and what do they put out?? The original sales order/reciept for the car, and the salesman's business card who sold the car.

The guy who owns it now (third owner) is having it "updated" with all sorts of suspension and I believe soon a Merlin engine.

YES, It's HIS car. He paid I'm sure a pretty penny for it as well. He CAN and WILL do whatever he wants to do to it.

So far, what has be done to the car IS completely reversable (i.e. mods are bolt-in)

But why take (and spend the big money) this fairly rair and ORIGINAL car and do this to it??

I have (my wife counted 'em last night) 35 cars right now. Whoa, before your freak-out and think I'm some rich dude with that many cars, it's simply NOT TRUE. Most are projects needing COMPLETE restoration, a couple are parts cars.

I bought three a year ago in Muskogee, OK for $60 dollars each. Just bodies mind you. (Missed out on a '66 Chevelle 300 2 dr, and a '67 SS396 Chevelle body each $100, I got there one day late, oh well).

My point above about the LS6 car is that there are literally hundreds of thousands of cars like the three I bought for $60 that the guy could have started with to build the car of his dreams. These three I bought ARE easily buildable!!

Don't get me wrong, I love BOTH modified and 100% restorations. But, why spend $20-30,000 for a RARE ORIGINAL car and then completly re-do it??

Sorry about the length of this.

[This message has been edited by Len (edited 06-30-99).]

It's because some people, Len, have WAY more money than brains.

I haven't noticed much of the "opinionated" stuff that's referred to here. Or it may be, although I've been away from the hobby for a good long time, that gearheads have always been a headstrong, independent and opinionated bunch. That's what makes us the way we are. That's why we tinker and fiddle and modify. That's why we are hardly satisifed and always are thinking of what's next, should I go bigger, etc. Sometime this comes across as a personality flaw, and sometimes as a trait. But hey, it is what it is. Like I've said before on these pages, as long as you're courteous and not an A-hole, I'll cut you alot of slack and I think we all should be more tolerant. But if we get a hint of that smell, I'll be the first to bring all guns to bear on the target and eliminate it. Period.

[This message has been edited by Gene Chas (edited 06-30-99).]

Gene, another 100% agreement!

It is true that I like monster engines with blowers but no way I am going to screw up an original SS.

I was into 3rd gen camaros (still am), but grew out of them, cuz vortech-blown SBC just is not enough, needed bigger and stronger body for BBC. So chevelle moved from no.2 to no.1.

But also look at the bigger picture…

OK, I am showing some ignorance, because I am European, but does anybody like the production passanger cars? Except F-bodies and vette, rest is just plain puke! Six-bangers with FWD and sooo ugly design… No wonder that euro and asian econoboxes are selling well (right?). You have so cheap gas in US, I cant think that fuel economy should be an argument at all! Europe is sporting 3-5 bucks per gallon… ugh! Tax tax tax tax!!

Why the hell did Chevy kill 94-96 Impala SS? It is the coolest four-door sedan ever made, IMHO… A friend of mine is a local BMW dealer, I could prob get a huge discount, but no way..

What the hell are your sons going to do in twenty years? Number-match a FWD six-banger and do a front-wheel burnout (YUCK!!) to show off to electromobiles?? In my opinion that can be very real. I hate to be right!

Maybe the car manuf.-s should get some serious letters soon!

Yikes, Vortec08's vision of the future has me very worried. (Wow a numbers matching 99 Monte ss yuck) Perhaps I will cut the floor pan up in my FWD Lumina and weld in a tube chassis jam in a aluminumum merlin block and a blower along with a 4 link and narrowed 9" in the back, anyone got $30,000 I can borrow for a while??

Everyone has lots of very strong opinions here and I always thought that was the good part about CT. It is nice to get some advice about some baffling mystery that I can't figure out, or to help out someone with a problem you have faced in the past. The arguement between the chalk mark guys and the blower through the hood guys will go on until long past the time we can't buy gas anymore. The point is that we all love our cars and we appreciate the helpful comments and critisicism as well, that can keep us from screwing our cars up too much.

Frank


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To answer why Chevy axed the Impala-Caprice line, it is simple economics. In '96, they sold 160,000 B-bodies, VS 6or700,000 trucks. Easy decision...axe the B-body and turn the plants into truck assy lines.

All I have is the '81 Elky, but I lust for a '70 - '72
Chevelle. My Elky will be old one day, and it will be found to have NOT been hacked on! On the other hand, it'll never go back pure stock either.

I know that I've seen plenty of original cars, and plenty of modified cars, and I LIKE CARS!!!

I would NEVER think of ragging on anyone else on this site for anything!

Live and Let Live my brothers and sisters!

Dave H.
81ElCamino
HOT Houston, TX