i've got a 69 with power steering and it seems to over power, gives too much help. maybe i'm too used to the later models and the road feel they give. a friend suggested putting a restricted (washer with a hole in it) in the pressure side hose connection. would that limit the amount of assist? thanks john


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The control valve inside the steering box is what gives you the road feel. I would think the washer trick would starve the gearbox of fluid. You can get a better control valve out of new 85 and up TA's and Camaros. But you will need a new steering coupler that is a smaller diameter.

You can also go to my web page and read about steering gear swaps.

Good Luck,


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Jim Endrud - Gold #45
72 El Camino SS Clone
azonline.com/~jimmy (http://azonline.com/~jimmy)

Jimmy - How much did that swap run you? How much for the TA box? How much for the coupler from that guy? And can I still get one from him?

You are gettin the steering "help" from three sources. (I have a '69 too.) On is the amount of assist that you get from the hydraulics. Two is the gear ratio in the steering box and three is that seeminly 9 foot diameter sterring wheel!.

Cars back then almost took pride from removing road feel.

I don't know about restricting the fluid flow. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. You can buy replacement close ratio steering boxes that have the look of the original. I think Year One carries them. It may not look original, but you could also get a smaller steering wheel. How about one of those tiny chrome chain link ones? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

John6066, Install a larger power steering pump pulley. That will slow down the pump. But if you turn the steering wheel to fast the pump will not be able to keet up. I had that promlem, and corrected it with a smaller pulley.

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ACES #2637
TEAM CHEVELLE #69

Hi guys,I also have the same problem on my 69 SS BB. I was wondering if you can change the flow control valve and spring inside the pump. Does anyone know if this will work or if it has been done. Thanks Bill

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BILL

thanks guys, i did swap the steering gear the old one leaked and the new unit works well but doesn't turn as far as the old. about 3.5 turns lock to lock. i don't know if that means the ratio is different or not. if the spring that was mentioned is to relieve pressure wouldn't that starve the gear as well?? john

Jimmy had a real good web site explaining the swapping of late model steering.
I have a 84 TA box in my 73, like Jimmy explained you can yank apart the old box and stuff in the new guts and only replace the rag joint, or get adapters for the pressure lines. I had the newer pump setup so that wasn't as much of a problem for me. The boxes range from $40 to $50 from the junkyards around Boston. The stops in the front cover of the box regulate the turning ratio, I lost some in my swap but I like the road feel and quick ratio. I will be putting in a 86 Monte SS box soon since the TA unit is leaking now, I would recomend the swap to others in spite of some of the difficulties

Frank

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Bill,

I never did anything to my stock PS pump, so I can't answer the spring qestion. The control valve is in the very front of the gear box and it controls the fliud flow. My dad actually only changed the control valve in his Elky and left the gear ratio stock. He has the same great road feel I do, but without the 12.7:1 gear ratio like my Elky has. It is also very simple to retain the correct turn radius. Simply remove the end cap of the new box and use yuur original end cap. To do this, remove the snap ring holding the cap in and SLOWLY turn the gear until you can free the cap. Then turn the gear back so the new end cap can be installed. Very simple. The rest of the gear box doesn't need to come apart. Also, I believe you can take the control valuve out without completely disassebling the whole gear also.

David, the gear box I bought was from a 88 TA and I paid $25 for it. That's a steal. The going rate here in Phoenix is $100. Lee Manufacturing has the coupler you need. Their number is 818-768-0371. You can also buy just a new control valve with great road feel from Lee, but they cost more than a used TA box, which has the same control valve.

Good Luck everyone,


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Jim Endrud - Gold #45
72 El Camino SS Clone
azonline.com/~jimmy (http://azonline.com/~jimmy)

[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited 06-29-99).]

Bill,
Supposedly the BB cars have the smallest orifice of any flow control valve installed in the Saginaw-tupe pump. I called Lee about over-assist a while back and he told me that a smaller orifice in the valve will allow less assist and hence more road feel. The hole is supposed to be between .140 and .148" and mine was abotu .112" so I guess the BB valves really are the smallest. However, I am still unstisfied with the road feel. I have a "YA" box from an 84 Monte SS in my 70 SS, and while it's an improvement, it's still overboosted for my personal taste. If anyone can shed some more light or experience on this subject, I'd appreciate it as well.

Steering feel in a Saginaw power steering box is set by the size of a torsion bar in the control valve located at the input end of the box. If you look at the input shaft, you can see the stub of the T-bar sticking out (approx. 1/4" in diamater). To increase feel, change the valve assembly or increase caster in the front suspension.

The Saginaw gear is an open center device which means that the pressure required to provide power assist is generated by the control valve CLOSING and restricting fluid flow. If you restrict the flow from the pump, you will loose assist when you move the wheel rapidly but assist for slow wheel movement is not affected. The pump contains a flow control orifice which is there to limit the amount of fluid flowing to the gear at high pump speed. If you have loss of assist when moving the wheel rapidly, a larger orifice will help. Otherwise, DON'T MESS WITH THE PUMP.

Steering Stops:
Chevelle steering systems have two sets of steering stops, one set in the gear and one set on the steering knuckles. Stops in the gear are there to prevent the steering gear from bending the steering linkage during extreme full lock turns. A power steering gear puts out a LOT of force especially if you're really leaning on the steering wheel. Gear stops can be changed but changing the gear end-cap only changes the right turn stop, I believe. I'm not sure any more but I think that you need to change the rack piston to alter the left stop. Another DON'T. Don't change the end cap and re-adjust the tie rods to balance up the travel. The steering gear has a high or tight spot at the straight-ahead position. If you get that off-center, you'll have loose steering straight down the road and you will not be able to adjust it out with the screw on the top of the gear.

Sorry about the rambling, this is way more than most of you wanted to know.

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Fred Aldrich
Web Site: www.GeoCities.com/~69_chevelle (http://www.GeoCities.com/~69_chevelle)



[This message has been edited by Fred Aldrich (edited 07-01-99).]

Fred, I glad you said it. Most people think you can just change the end cap and all is well. Not so as you stated. I have seen front end alignment shops center the steering wheel by taking it off and putting it on straight. That will throw the high center out and you will never get the play out. Everything must be centered to get good steering feel. The later boxes have a stop machined in the housing for left hand turns. It can be machined out, but if you have to pay someone for that it might not be cost effective.

Man, you guys know a lot about steering boxes. I tried to open mine up to see if I could stop it from leaking. I couldn't even figure out how to take it apart.

Anyway, I like the over power. There's nothing like cruising a big american car through a parking lot with the palm of your hand. If you want road feel, buy a Nissan http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

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Jameel Qazi
#'s 67 SS

Well, I always thought there should be another internal stop. Tom Lee of Lee Manufacturing told me otherwise. I also used my original housing. I wish I had done some measuring of the inside of both boxes while I had them apart. I was told and read in numerous articles that they were the same.

Fred, question on the center high-spot. Isn't that only the case with variable ratio boxes, where the ratio is tighter in the center? The newer boxes are 12.7:1 constant ratio.

Anyway, all these problems are solved when you put all the parts from a newer box (minus end cap) into your original Chevelle housing. No metric problems, no steering stop problems, and great road feel.


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Jim Endrud - Gold #45
72 El Camino SS Clone
azonline.com/~jimmy (http://azonline.com/~jimmy)

jimmy
No, high spot has nothing to do with variable vs fixed ratio. Rask and sector in a steering gear are designed to operate at zero lash on-center but with some lash off-center. Gives tight precise feel on-center without a lot of friction off-center that will hurt returnibility. I set these by tightening the screw until the steering is tight and sticky on-center. Then back off until you can live with the returnibility if you turn the wheel, say, 10 deg. left or right and let it return by itself.
Worked on steering for GM for a very short time in 1972.

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Fred Aldrich
Web Site: www.GeoCities.com/~69_chevelle (http://www.GeoCities.com/~69_chevelle)