Hello All,

The Car: 1972 El camino with 350 and TH400.

My old starter went out so I bought a new one from Autozone. I read all the directions even though I've changed starters many, many times. Without any shims, it sounds horrible . The armature and the flexplate is also slightly more than the 1/8 in. apart that its sopposed to be. So I put in a half a shim on the outside bolt, which should bring it in closer. It didn't. I tried another half shim. Still more than a 1/8 inch. I tried 1 whole shim with no luck. No matter what I tried the starter sounded beyond horrible. I inspected the teeth on the flexplate. They look very good. Very little wear. I also compared my old starter to my new one. The housing is slighly different, which I think could be the problem. AutoZone says I got the right starter.

So my question. Are there different 350 starters? Anybody have any ideas for me?

Thanks for any help,



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Jim Endrud - TC Gold #45 - ACES #3507
72 El Camino SS Clone
GM muscle cars - members.home.net/jimmy4 (http://members.home.net/jimmy4)
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I have heard that blocks and starters should stay together as a matched set. If you haven't gotten the core on the old one, and if you are not in any kind of hurry, get the old one rebuilt.

Otherwise I would take back that POS and get one somewhere else. Everyone should stock 350 starters

I'd say you got a bad starter. I've seen some pretty bad "reman" stuff from those places. Take it back and either ask for another one or get a refund and go elsewhere.

Jim, my experience with starters is that you either measure a specified gap between the pinion shaft and the top of the flex plate teeth with a guage that is included with the starter, or you can insert a straightened paper clip between the pinion gear valley and the tip of a flex plate tooth. The second method requires pushing the pinion gear into the mesh position. In either case, the shim(s) should bridge both holes so the mounting surfaces remain parallel.
Hope this helps you,
Rich

Take off your starter and take it back. You can probably take it back to another Auto-Zone. Tell them it sticks in once in a while and you want another one. If they test it and it works fine, tell them you would like another one, just becuase. They shouldn't give you any problem. I had this same problem on my 72 elky. The first starter I got did the same thing yours is doing. I took it off, took it back told them it stuck in and they gave me a new one. I was told by a guy one time that if the starter you take off doesn't have shims, you shouldn't need them on a new starter that you install. Maybe there are some different 350 starters, b/c I had the same problem with mine last year.

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Bryan Shook
www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/6673 (http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/6673)
Favorite Quote: Some people have shrinks. Some people have their garage.

Thanks guys,

I failed to mention that the starter I'm having all the problems with is the 2nd new
starter. I took back one this morning that did the same thing. Both of the housings looked the same. Neither one looked like housing from my old starter. I guess I'll give up and have my old starter rebuilt. That seems to be the easiest way to get a decent starter.

Thanks,


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Jim Endrud - TC Gold #45 - ACES #3507
72 El Camino SS Clone
GM muscle cars - members.home.net/jimmy4 (http://members.home.net/jimmy4)
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www.classicswapmeet.com (http://www.classicswapmeet.com)

Some of the "chain" auto parts houses in the west seem to be getting cores from some strange sources. I can still get a matching rebuilt starter for my 72 350 from Pep Boys, but it is impossible to find a alternator with an AC case. I send those go to a rebuilder.

Past experience with the zone and chucker auto always send me to either NAPA or Big A.Lifetime warranty is a great seller but not when you spend every weekend swapping parts and running around to get them.
Just noticed you're in peoria what colors your cammino?
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PhilMullaly Member562 72camino TPI proj

[This message has been edited by pmullaly (edited 02-24-2000).]

This falls into the category of "don't trust anybody to do what you can do for yourself".
You can get a complete starter rebuild kit at any parts house for about $10. It includes a new bendix, bushings, brushes, leather washers, etc.
Unless your old one went up in a ball of smoke, you should be able to rebuild it yourself with this kit, and because you care about the car, you will more than likely do a better job than any "rebuilt" starter you can buy.
An added bonus is that you can keep the original housing that really does fit your block.
If you want it right, do it yourself.

hi my name is mark and i work at a store called discount auto parts and we carry reman delco starters and i learned those bastards are lazy but i have a regular customer with a 69 vette and he had the same problem (350HP 350) we took the first one back and just gave him a new one that differed slightly cosmetically and he never came back to exchange it so it must have worked ok but i would take it back and tell them to pull everyone off the shelf for your application and select from those or just get yours rebuilt , my $.02

A litle bit of advice go to a NAPA or a better supplier. I speak from experience; NEVER BUY ANYTHING ELECTRICAL FROM AUTO ZONE!!

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Steve

DO you still have the original starter? If you believe that the housings are different between the old and new, then swapping the nose of the old one to the new one.

What larry said will work. check the bushing for wear and replace if necessary. With the old nose on it it will fit like the old starter. If at that point you still have trouble it could be the bendix assembly they are using on there rebuilts.

Take that AZ piece of crap back and go to NAPA!!!! I went thru this deal two years ago with a starter on my girlfriends '89 T/A. After THREE junk AutoZone starters and an altercation with the manager(he got fired)I went NAPA and never had a problem.

Mike

there are different noses for chevy starters . ran into this before. get your old one back from the store and exchange noses put it on the new starter. also put in a new bushing in the old nose

I agree 100% with Slime - I learned that I NEVER buy electrical parts from the "cheapie chains" - I always end up taking them back over and over. Went thru 4 alternators once, ended up saying the heck with it and went to NAPA - haven't had a problem since.

Just a couple things...

I have to disagree with RT.. you dont have to bridge both holes, the whole idea behind shims is that half a shim will have the most affect on pinion position, depending on how you need it to move..

Also Kragens sells brand new lifetime starters, I think they have the nascar endorsement on them, and Ive installed a few of those and they seem to be good units.. remember them being fairly cheap too..

One last thing is that yes, Napa has some superior parts depending on what you need, but they also charge more, and MANY times carry the exact same part as autozone/kragen/pep boys, etc.. so Id make sure you're not paying more for nothing..

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Mike Reeh
Gold #34
San Diego, CA

This could apply to starters, but I just have to say...

"Always keep your ORIGINAL parts and insist on Genuine GM/ AC/DELCO products." http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

You pay more, but in the long run, do you really pay more?

I bought a headlight switch from a local parts store [respectable in my opinion], put that darn thing in and about 5 seconds later, problems already. You could just barly tap the thing and the dome light would come on. I'm thinking there's a battery drainer/electrical fire waiting to happen. Spent the bucks on a true Delco switch, NO problems.

Always get top notch from top notch names,--especially electrical and vital mechanical parts. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/cool.gif

Joe

I had same problems with my mothers 93 V6 Lumina. In 3 months I changed 4 starters, all parts store remanufactures. I bitched when they did not have another to give me and the counter person I knew at this one suplier confided in me that they buy everthing on price not quality, if its junk the supplier gives them another. Why?(because eveyrone is shopping on price not quality) and 1 of every 2 they sell comes back.

I went to the GM dealer, paid twice the cost of the others and its been ok for 3 years now. I also have a buddy that has a repair shop and it constantly bitching about the poor quality rebuilt starters out there but he says no one wants to pay the price for quality. He claims he hates to even install a rebuilt starter for fear the customer will be back bitching in a month or so.




[This message has been edited by elcamino (edited 02-25-2000).]

I hate to dissapoint you guys but I recently went to Advanced Auto Parts and you would not believe your eyes. There was a NAPA guy with a cart full of starters loaded in his little S-10 and off to napa to be sold as a NAPA starter. I asked the guy at the counter and he said NAPA is their biggest customer for parts. That was after I already went to NAPA for a ignition switch for a 67 Chevelle and they did not have one and went to Advance to get one and seen this first hand.

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69 SS 454
69 Malibu 406
ACES Member #3635

Definetly either replace that starter with a reman delco or have yours rebuilt. Chain stores do sell the cheapest reman parts for do it yourselfers, unfortunately they suck. You do get what you pay for with "discount" priced parts. Have a nice day!

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http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/yosemitedr/quintillis/index.html

Thanks guys for all the suggestions. My dad told me about a small starter and alternator shop downtown, and I took my old starter to them this morning to be rebuilt. I picked it up this afternoon and installed it. PRESTO!
The rebuilt starter I bought wasn't defective, but the nose wasn't correct.
The gear was always too far away from the flexplate. My old one is strill a little over 1/8 inch away from the flexplate, but it seems to work OK. Its still louder than my dad's Elky with the original 350 and original starter. His sounds perfect. The shop that rebuilt my starter told me there are at least 12 different noses for 350 starters. I also had a good parts store pull a bunch of starters for me look at and compare. I now know which starter I'm going to buy next.

I hope I don't have this trouble with the starter on the 402 I'm going to build this winter.

Thanks again,


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Jim Endrud - TC Gold #45 - ACES #3507
72 El Camino SS Clone
GM muscle cars - members.home.net/jimmy4 (http://members.home.net/jimmy4)
El Camino gallery - members.home.net/jimmy4/elkygallery.html (http://members.home.net/jimmy4/elkygallery.html)
www.classicswapmeet.com (http://www.classicswapmeet.com)

I work in the Oshawa GM truck plant. The reject department used to have people almost working steady pulling starter motors and doing the appropriate shimming to get the right fit. We did a study several years ago and found that the bolt holes for the starter in the block were not consistant and were all over the place. Having isolated the problem the powers that be got back to the engine plants and revised their machining processes for more accurate drilling and the shimming problem disappeared for the most part. There are also a lot of other variables, which can stack up, and can also aggravate the problem.

Glad you got your problem resolved. I've had the best luck with cast iron snouts. Every aluminum nose was a PITA.

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Pat Kelley
66 El Camino, daily driver
67 El Camino, STRIP/street

It is only by striving for perfection that we can achive mediocrity.