I need some expert advice on a 70 SS 454 LS5 and no better place to go than T.C. This postings a little long but hear's the deal. I met up with an old high school friend and come to find out he owns a very reputable muscle car repair shop in town. He told me he had a numbers matching disassembled 1970 Chevelle SS454 LS5 for sale. Price 10K. I went to his shop to check it out and what I found among a number of very nicely restored muscle cars waiting to be worked on was the following:

1970 Chevelle Vin 134370R258856
454 Block casting# 3963512 Date D220 Completely rebuilt with a 2,200 receipt from a very reputable rebuilder hear in town. However, block was decked so no engine code suffix or vin #
M22 4spd #3978764 Rebuilt with 900.00 receipt
3.31 Posi CRV1215B2 ( not sure what the 2 is, build date after build date on the cowl? )
Heads #3964290
Intake #3955287
.532 lift Cam
PS
A/C
Standard gauges
Restored complete YA wheels with brand new white letter 235/60/14 Goodyears
Rebuilt suspension and breaks with receipts
New gas tank. It looks like all the trim, badges and body parts are there.

Incorrect or missing items:
Exhaust manifolds LH 3989348 RH 3989310
Alternator #1102480
Water Pump unknown
After market distributor
No Carb
No glass front or back

Cowl Tag was removed by the owner before blasting the body ( not smart )

ST7013637 BT44359 BDY
TR 795 45 G PNT
06C530 ( not sure what the 530 is )

Front clip is off the car. Completely rust free body and frame. Both need paint. Interior gutted. Black bucket seat interior out and restorable. However, 795 is a green bench seat car. Dash is correct. All side glass good but out of car. No build sheet or Protect-O-Plate

So, clearly not a numbers matching car, but. My questions are
1. Is it worth 10K as is
2. Is it worth spending the 5-7,000 to complete
I already own a beautiful 70 SS 396 so this is as much a business decision as a labor of love. Any and all posting will be greatly appreciated


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Texas SS
1970 SS 396 350HP
Unrestored & Almost Perfect
Houston, Texas
Take a Look http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Street/6320

The Chevelle is not worth ten grand.
A nice number would be five grand because without a buildsheet or matching # block. Now I have been told that even when a block is decked, the impression is still in the iron and that a special metal x-ray can be done, a very expensive machine, and verify the original numbers or new numbers over old, very cool. I know law enforcement uses the machine but, is used to verify stolen parts. So without a matching block, removed build tag, not completely original, and you said it had a standard dash, the car would be a great street car that could be modified without guilt BUT, I think your idea is to restore it and turn it?, if so, you need to get this car for less. I sorry for the long reply but for ten grand I would want a documented car that was complete and if it was in boxes, and had a removed trim tag, I would need hard proof to justify the price, which is sky high, because if you restored that car to new and did all the labor yourself, I would bet you would just break even, 10,000 or the car and 15,000
to restore so if 25,000 is cool than GO FOR IT!, IMO.

it sounds like not so good a deal, the assembly and missing parts can nickle and dime you to death, $5k sounds about right, $10k if its assembled, running with only little stuff that needs done. check my page, i paid $9500 for mine, it's modified and not a #'s matching BUT it's a frame off,with a build sheet for SS proof. go from there.

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1970 SS396 AKA 454/4spd
My Chev-Hell Page (http://hometown.aol.com/jnkb2cool/home.html)
Member #783
Ft.Worth, Tx
Big Block Chevy.net (http://www.bigblockchevy.net)
proud owner of this site

TXSS, if your goal is to turn a quick buck, I'd say that $10K is quite high for that particular car. Sounds like quite a lot of work was done mechanically, but the part with the "hidden $$" is just on the horizon--body and paint. Generally takes more time and money than you think going in. Without actually seeing the car,I don't think bigblockkid is too far out of line with a $10-$15K estimate to finish the car to the level where you could ask $20K and not get laughed at... http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

When I bought my 70, I figured out what I thought I could sell all the parts for as a "backup plan" and made my offer at that level, and stuck to it. I'd think somewhere between $4-$6K would be more in line with what it sounds like is being offered. But, heck my motto is to buy high and sell low, so I'm always wrong.. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Please post how this turns out, as it sounds like there is a big difference to negotiate. Be interesting to see how it ends up.

A LS5 M22 car with AC is a pretty rare car. Did anyone look down by the oil filter for the Vin. # ?

Beware of reputable old high school friends with "numbers matching"? SS 454 Chevelles for sale. Not saying don't negotiate your best deal just make sure you know where your going with this car and what it will take to finish it. If your looking to turn a profit forget it. You could make more $ with a part time job after all the time and $ needed to finish the car. I bought a numbers matching 70 LS5 with documentation from GM of Canada for $11k and am spending $16k to restore it, give or take a couple grand. It adds up fast.

Ten grand any you still have to put it together AND paint it? Walk away.

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Honey, its not a $200 hat. The distributor was $200, the hat came with it. kevin d
Maryland Chevelle Club #362
Classic Cars and Trucks of Beaufort #72

If I wanted a 1970 Chevelle,and I came across that car,I wouldn't pay more than 5K for it,and I'd still lose sleep at that price.And,I do all my own work http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

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1970 Chevelle SS396/L78/M21/4.10 My 70 SS396 (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/mr4speed70SS1)
1972 Olds 442 convertible(455,W25,M40) My 72 442 convertible (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/mr4speeds442conv1)
1982 Oldsmobile Cutlass 350 Olds,TH350(daily driver)
"Be aware of the possible ramifications of the potential outcome"
Chris Corwel,the man from the too much taxes and over priced gas state of Connecticut
TC Member 785

[This message has been edited by mr 4 speed (edited 11-08-2000).]

I agree with everyone else. Even if you want a chevelle r e a l b a d , this is a bunch of money for the work that needs to be done.
You say the frame and body both need paint. The right way to do it is to lift the body and paint the whole frame. Could do it yourself, true, but, paint job can cost you another $5 grand. If you really, really want it, offer him half of what he is asking as is. Then hope.

sorry.


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Dave
"Fire all your guns at once and
Explode into space."
Steppenwolf "Born to be Wild"

Check that VIN again.Sould start 13637.Also AO stamped wheels are correct for the 70 model year.YA are 1969 vintage.

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Dean Ciampi
Team Chevelle Gold #52
Aces #3094 MY LS6 CHEVELLE (http://community-2.webtv.net/SS454chevelle/1970LS6CHEVELLE/)

You will NEVER finish that car for $5-7K unless you just intend it to be a driver. I spend more than that on complete drivetrain and engine bay restorations and that doesn't include any labor except for the machine shop work on the motor. Quality parts are very, very expensive and add up soooo quickly. That car is way overpriced.

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Stan Hanek
'71 SS - 454 4 sp.
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/stan71delivery.jpg

At first, I was inclined to say 10K is too much for what you are looking at. But then, after reading all the other posts, my feeling was confirmed.
2yrs ago I bought a NICE 70 Malibu conv, with a tired 307, Saginaw 4sp (originally 3 on the tree), pb, ps, factory air, 3.08 10bolt open rear, new paint, new interior (correct), new top, 15x7 Ralleys and new 2356015 white letters. I gave 84K. Drove it home, jerked the 307 and installed a SB406, M-20 Muncie, 3.07 posi 12 bolt and several misc other things. I now have about 14K in it, not counting time/labor.
My whole point here, is that if this is what I spent extra on a nice driveable car, you can figure from this what you might expect to spend on the car you looked at. And I also do my own work. So if you put this car back RIGHT, you still don't have the matching numbers block (even if modern technology COULD lift the original numbers from that block) and you have no build sheet. For you to turn this car AND recover your expenses and gain a profit, the REAL buyers will insist on the numbers and build sheet. From your description, I'm thinking it will take another 8-15K to do it RIGHT, and probably closer to 15K.

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Tom Parsons

Thanks for the posting guys. I already knew the answer I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something about this old car. And, yes I do want a chevelle r e a l b a d thats why I owen one. I just don't want this Chevelle r e a l b a d. I went back over to talk to him, not to negosiate, he had already told me he was firm on the price so I'll just keep looking. And to be honest, looks like a little to much work for my old bones.

However, we got to talking and he told me, (I'm not saying this is true I'm just shareing what I consider an intetesting story) he also has (not for sale)a 454 LS7 engine he had purchased from Mac Haik Chevrolet hear in Houston about 15 years ago. Thats right, he said LS SEVEN. I told him that I had just read an articial disputing the exsistance of such an engine and that only LS7 heads could be documented as being sold over the counter by GM dealers. We preseded to go into his office and he showed me a bill of sale from Mac Haik Chevrolet (still in business) dated 1984 that stated, one LS7 LB 454 V8 with aluminum heads 3,500.00. The engine was shrink wraped in plastic so I couldn't get a good look at it. I could tell it had aluminum heads and an X shaped aluminum intake. He told me he's had the engine in a couple of different cars and a boat. What do you guys know about the true exsistance of an LS7 engine. Anyway, thought you might enjoy the tail of the LS7 and thanks for all the good advice.

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Texas SS
1970 SS 396 350HP
Unrestored & Almost Perfect
Houston, Texas
Take a Look http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Street/6320

LS-7 engines were available over the counter.

Chevy P/N 3965774:
454CID, RPO LS7, 12.25:1 compression ratio, 4 bolt main block, 5140 forged steel crank with cross drilled mains, 4340 forged steel connecting rods with 7/16 rod bolts, pressed pins, forged high dome pistons, racing mechanical cam, open chamber cast iron cylinder heads, balancer, and standard flywheel. Engine suffix XCH.

Not sure if he could have special ordered AL heads or had the dealer do it. Also sounds like he swapped out the intake. Nice engine either way.

Red Label

Yes, you could get an LS-7 over the counter. I have a friend in Tulsa, OK who has 2.

BOTH OF HIS CRATE LS-7s HAVE IRON HEADS!

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Tom Parsons

$10k???!!!
Tell this guy to pass over whatever he is smoking 'cause I want a hit!
I have seen near show condition clones for that much!
Sounds like a psrts car or a MAJOR resto project that may never be 100% original due to the missing parts.

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JARRET GRATHWOL
TEAM CHEVELLE MEMBER #573
1970 Chevelle SS 396/ M-21
You can see my Chevelle SS here:
http://www.geocities.com/stangsvt99/Jarret_s__70_Chevelle_SS.html

You never answered the question of whether anyone looked for the Vin # down by the oil filter on the Block. If it is I would think it would be worth the 10,000. 454 M22 with AC with no rust ? That is a cool car. What do you think you can buy a #'s matching 454, M22 with AC car for that's done ? I'm guessing you could sell it easily for 30,000 when it's done. There is a big demand for the AC 454 cars.

Never seen Chevelles stamped by the oil filter, only Camaros for some reason.

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Micky Hale Restorations
69 L-89 Chevelle
68 Biscayne 427/425
34 Plymouth Drag Car
ACES #134
www.mickyhale.com

Ahhhh. Thanks. Yes I keep thinking in a Camaro mode.
Except a couple years ago I remember a Gold 396, 350 hp 70 Chevelle out here that the guy was looking for the Vin and I believe he found it down there. How many different plants were they made at ?

[This message has been edited by clill (edited 11-09-2000).]

I was not aware that the vin# was stamped around the oil filter. The engine is out of the car and shrink wrapped so I'd hate to ask him to unwrap it again considering I've decided to pass on it.

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Texas SS
1970 SS 396 350HP
Unrestored & Almost Perfect
Houston, Texas
Take a Look http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Street/6320

Everyone seems to have overlooked Dean's point. The VIN that is posted starts out 13437, which is a standard Chevelle sport coupe. All SS cars were based on the Malibu series in 70, so the VIN should start with 13637. If the VIN is 13437, its not a real SS. Also, you say the cowl tag was removed - it may have actually been swapped, since it has the 13637 style number. It should match the VIN, and it doesn't, based on what you've posted.

Also, according to the R in the VIN, the car was built in Arlington. But on the cowl tag, I believe the BL denotes Los Angeles (Van Nuys). Something is very fishy here, unless it can be explained by your typing skills. I'd say there's a real good chance that we've got some tag swapping going on here.

As far as stamping locations, I've had 2 69 Chevelles that had VINs stamped by the oil filter.

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Rainer Seitz
Vancouver, WA
Team Chevelle Gold #50
ACES #3784

'68 SS396
'70 LS3 400 Malibu
'70 Malibu convertible 350/300hp
rseitz@chevelles.com

[This message has been edited by Rainer (edited 11-10-2000).]