I have a 70 L78' with a M21 in it. The linkage I bought was supposed to be in great shape, but such was not the case. when installed, it gets stuck in between gears and is loose as a goose, shifter flopping all over the place. My question is, is there a rebuild kit available, if so, from who. Is this an easy fix? What is it that makes it so loose, obviously something must be worn, but what??? Thanks for your help, Joe.

Joe, I can't really answer your question. I've been going through Muncie linkage 101 this weekend. But I can tell you this, looseness of that kind probably means that the bushings were never installed and/or/ the rods are in the wrong place. The rods aren't anything that needs rebuilding. They're just rods, unless the ends are really hammered.

I've been told the way to know if your shifter needs rebuilding is by the way the gate feels.

Again, I'm just learning about manual trannies and having some problems to boot, but put the car on a jack stand and get under her and examine the shifter rods and their ends to see what they look like. I'd recommend buyying the steel bushings to replace the nylons.

Thanks for the advice Gene. Im going to try to locate the steel bushings as you suggested. Ive also got a problem with the key coming out of the ignition in any gear and then not coming out of the ignition when its supposed to. And my reverse lights dont come on when they are supposed to, ive even put new bulbs in!
thanks for your help

Joe

Hi Joe,

I agree that the rods are not on correctly or that(more likely) the bushings are shot.
Regarding the reverse lights, there is a rod that hooks up to the sleeve around the steering column and turns it when you select reverse. Try turning the column until the lights go off(or come on).

Dan

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69 Cortez silver SS 427
69 azure turquois Malibu 250
ACES #02351
Team Chevelle Gold #35

Thanks Dan, Im going to try your advice.

Joe

JS...like Dan mentioned, the reverse lights and ignition key lock are controlled by the rotating sleeve on steering column. I'm guessing yours is still hooked up. There's a rod coming off the reverse shift arm on the transmission (backdrive rod, they call it). I'm not sure how adjustable it is. More than likely your bushings on the shift arms (and on the shifter itself) could probably stand being replaced. (The reverse light switch is somewhat adjustable...it's on top of the steering column near the floor. You can slide it a bit left or right to get it come on when you want it to. ) Hurst sells something called a Pit Pack(I think), it has all the bushings and and spring clips you'll need. They have either nylon (like Gene mentioned) or steel bushings. They're available at just about any parts place...Pep Boys, Advance, etc...7 or 8 bucks...a bit pricey for what you get, but what're you gonna do? The plastic bushings don't last long. Something else, when you put on new bushings and clips, it helps to put a washer behind the spring clip...it tightens things up and takes a lot of the slop out of the linkage. If your shifter is junk and it's a Hurst, they have a rebuilding service available, in case you don't feel like shelling out bucks for a new one. It's reasonably priced. Check out their website for details.

I may be wrong, but if I remember right, my Muncie shifter on my '70 did not have any bushings in the linkage. I know it did have two holes in each arm on the trans levers, with the rods in the lower holes the throw on the handle was shorter. (if you call hitting the console shorter) I eventually took the Muncie shifter out, cut the end off the handle, and bolted it to my Hurst. If I had only knew what they were going to be worth!

Thanks again for your help. When I bought this L78, it also had a hurst in it. And my father explained why most people if not all, trashed the Muncie, My car is living proof why. So I had to hunt a Muncie down, $500.oo later and disappointed with what I had purchased from someone who was to be well respected in the Chevelle world, im left with garbage to shift with. I will take a look at the linkage and see if I can make heads or tails of it. And Mr. Brady should be embarrassed of what he shipped me, which I also will add that he sent me not a reverse lock out from a Chevelle, but from a Camaro! Thanks for the info again Guys

Joe, Dave Bridwell hit it right. Man, I assumed you had a Hurst linkage, not the original muncie. Your dad is right. My '67 came with the original muncie linkage. Not only were the shifter arms die ground to fit a '69 and later Muncie tranny ( with the through bolts), but the whole mess was a piece of hoop compared to a Hurst. And no, the original doesn't run any kind of washers.

Joe, send that crap back to whom you bought it from and get a Hurst. If you're stuck on running the original shift handle, it's an easy operation( way easier than my round '67 was). I have instructions from DZAUTO, who I consider very, very good with Muncies. That's in an email he sent me, but I'm sure he'd have no problem with me sharing it with you.

I just swapped a Camaro Husrt for a Chevelle Hurst from a local resto shop. I know he's got a few more used Chevelle shifters. Mine was fine. Then you'll need to buy an install kit from Hurst. That's around $110 or so. Also splurge for their reverse light switch, $18, and it makes the rod handle monstrosity that came stock look like an engineering experiement gone bad.

Sorry for assuming. Go with the Hurst. I've used both. No comparison.

Also, I still have the rods/ etc from my stock Muncie. I wanted to throw them away, but a little voice said save 'em. If you need any parts. Let me know. They're not worth anything to me. The shifter has been cannabalized for the mount. All I'd ask is you pay to ship.

Sorry for not paying attention the first time! Thanks again DB.

[This message has been edited by Gene Chas (edited 08-02-99).]

Right on, Gene! I just picked up a '68 elky with a 375 horse 396 and an M22. It's all original right down to the Muncie Mystery Shifter. Man, that things got so much play in it I can't tell What gear it's even CLOSE to!!! I will see if I can do anything with the slop, but most likely it's going to get the Hurst with the Muncie handle put on.

Dave, I pulled the Muncie apart to get the mount for the handle off. I didn't see any way of tightening up the works, except for shimming maybe. I actually had a hard time finding neutral with the Hurst cause it was so tight compared to stock.

Nice score by the way. TooCool just sent me a copy of "two lane blacktop" and I forgot how neat the M22 whine is. Sounds like the old milk truck that used to come by our house every day.

Joe,
first of all, the shifter that you have, does it have a flat handle kind of like a Hurst handle with a 90deg angle at the bottom with 2 bolt holes? And does it have MUNCIE stamped in the handle? If so, here is what I do to solve EVERYTHING. This modification is totally up to you, but it is a 100% cure. First, completely remove the shifter, rods and all. Save the handle and knob.THROW EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GARBAGE CAN! Buy a Hurst Competition Plus for a 70 Chevelle (they are specific to your car), I like doing business with Summit, free shipping. Next, cut the angle off the bottom of the factory shifter handle that you saved. Cut it right at the bend of the angle. Install and adjust the Hurst. Hold the factory handle up to the Hurst and mark and drill ONE hole and bolt it on. Determine exactly where you want the second hole and then mark it. After drilling (remove the handle first)and installing the second bolt, you will have the most wonderful functioning shifter ever with an original Muncie handle. I have done this on 2 cars so far and I will do it from now on.
Also, I have a 56 Vette with a Muncie and a Hurst shifter with a repo handle from Corvette Central that is made to look like an original 56 Vette shifter handle. I understand how you may feel about the original shifter you bought, but what can I say? They are junk!
If you should choose to go this route, and if, after everything is finished and installed and you should discover that the shifter touches the console, it is relatively easy to slightly bend the handle if necessary.

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Joe, that's the same instx DZ sent me in an email. I did this to my round shifter, which is bit more involved, but it is the only way to fly IMO. BTW, if you don't know DZ, he really knows his tranny stuff. Consider it Gospel.

Good luck with your 70!

I think that origionality is important, however functionality is even more important. I like that idea of swapping out the rods for the Hurst from summit and just using my muncie handle. There has to be a balance between the two (functionality and origionality) and right now im just a bit off balance! This advice is great and summit will be called today. My apologies for not responding sooner, last minute business trips kill me! one final ???????(i think) when this swap is done, will this affect the little plastic sliding shifter plate in the console???? I went through alot of trouble finding that little plastic piece, id hate to just trash that. Thanks so much guys!!!!!!!!! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Joe, keep in mind that were not talking abbout swapping rods. We're talking about replacing the stock shifter with a Hurst Comp Plus ( only one that;ll fit your console) and also using their install kit ( the rods, shifter mount plate, etc). The shifter handle is then modified to fit onto the Hurst shifter.
As far as the plastic slide mechanism you refer to my '67 console has no such item. Only the automatic shift consoles have this device in my model year.If you mean it replaces the rubber boot, the shifter might be slight off center from the original position. Mine was slightly to the right.But barely noticeable.

BTW, I ripped through the gears the other day,shifting at 6000 and slammin em. This type of activity may not be your cup of tea, but when and if it ever is, the utter confidence of that crisp solid Hurst mechanism can't be beat.

[This message has been edited by Gene Chas (edited 08-07-99).]

Hi Gene, I have a 70, though im not so familiar with 67's. On my 70 there is a slider plate that covers the area where you might find a boot to snug up to the shifter handle. Dont know if I can describe these pieces correctly, please forgive me. Theres 2 pieces that slide on the center console regarding the shifter, a plastic piece that slides forward and reverse as the shifter is moved in those directions and then a smaller piece that slides left and right as the shifter is moved in those directions. My concern is will I still be able to use these pieces when I do this awesome upgrading??? Thanks Gene

Joe

My Muncie shifter had no replaceable bushings. We have a '72 Lemans Sport with the factory installed Hurst shifter and it doesn't have the bushings nor the stop bolts in the shifter itself. Only the speed shop shifters got the full treatment.

Joe, all I can say is that on my 67 the shifter was located slightly to the right of the stock location. We're talking about 1/2 inch and I'm assuming that the original shifter located directly in the center of the console opening. I thinkk you'll be OK. Maybe DZ can comment since I;ve never toyed with a '70.

But once again, with added emphasis, there is no comparison between stock and the Hurst CompPlus. Do your self a favor. The judges probably won't crawl under your car to see if there's a stock shifter in there and you can make the topside look original. I had the same originality concerns as you sicne my '67 sports an all original interior. I'll have pics of my redo on Monday. If Al lets me I'll try to post them somewhere on the site so you get an idea of the look of it.
If you need a used shifter call Bob Harris at 716-652-7083, he has a couple. For everything else call Summit.

Good luck and you will not regret the swap, trust me on that.

Hey Gene, I have the handle and ball but lack everything else, should I call and see if I can get the used stuff or should I go with new?? I definately will be doing the swap. Will the Hurst kit come with everything I need less the handle???? Thanks again Gene for the advice.

For originality, I'm still running my original console Muncie Shifter. I spent about 5 hours working on the gate and 3 hours under the car lining it all up. If you don't have the patience to do this stuff, do what everyone else has done and get a Hurst. If you want to keep it original, read on:

I disassembled the gate, rods, and sandblasted everything along with nuts, bolts, etc. There are no bushings in the shifter assembly that I could find. I then painted everything so it would 1)look good and 2)not corrode.

When I assembled everything, I coated the moving parts with this stuff called Optimol Ultimate surface-improving multigrease. It's slick stuff! I got it as a door prize at a car show years ago. Now the shifter moves relatively easy!

When I installed everything, I studied the assembly manual for my Chevelle. There is a page on shifter gate alignment, which must be done or you will continually jam the shifter up. It took a while to align the gate, but I finally got it right. There is a whole in the gates that you should be able to insert a dowl through to align it. I did mine about 5 years ago and don't remember the particulars. The assembly manual does a good job explaining it. Oh yeah, I did this on a lift where I could still keep the 4 wheels on the ground. Depending on how the car is lifted, if the froame twists or bends a little, it could have an effect on the cross member, which the shifter is mounted on!

Is it worth doing all this. For me, yes! My end result is very functional. But I still have a few problems.

The Muncie shifter is mounted to the cross member and under severe aceleration, the rods will twist and jam when shifting, so I don't do ANY speed-shifting. However, I can grab gears and chirp the tires, and I will occasionally miss second gear because it feels like it's "in" but it's not. Forget speed shifting into 3rd. It ain't gonna happen!

If you like originality and function, you can successfully get a Muncie to function. If you are spirited in your driving and race your car, then modify a Hurst.

BTW, where did you get the small plastic piece that slides (left to right) inside the larger slider that slides up and down? I need one of those!

Rick

Joe, it's up to you. At one point I was cussing and swearing about something that I thought was a shifter problem, saying that I should have bought everything new. But these shifters rarely wear out. I happened to buy a used shifter from Wally, a fellow team member, for a price I couldn't refuse. I was offerred more for it at Camaro Specialties, but I just swapped them for a Chevelle unit ( it was a Camaro shifter).

The trouble is I don't know how to tell a shifter is bad before mounting it. The problem I thought I had was an adjustment problem and nothing to do with the shifter. I did need to clean and regrease it.

I don't know if a shifter comes with a handle, it must. Your part numbers for a 70 Chevelle Muncie are 391 8014 for the Comp plus shifter and 373 7834 for the install kit. I paid around $115 for the install kit locally. I think used shifters are around $100. If you decide to go used you can call Bob Harris at Camaro Specialites (716-652-7086). I know he has a few other Chevelle shifters. You can mention my name.

Look, even though RatMotor did a thourough job of rebuilding his shifter, there's still problems. I don't know what kind of engine you're running, but if it has any torque at all, you want the shifter mounted to the tranny, not the crossmember.

One word of caution, it took me a few tries to get the retainer clips on right, but hey, I'm jumping the gun.

To whom it may concern, factory muncie shifters are rebuildable but requires welding the gates and rod holes, no it is not quite as good as a hurst but darn close. Dont screw up your original shifter to make this clusterfunk, just use the hurst handle.

Joe,
You can retain the plastic slider.

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Joe, I did not consider my grafting of the original handle onto the Hurst box anything of a clusterfunk. It's quite functional, bulletproof, and to all the world looks original. My only regret is that I eventually had to weld the handle http://www.chevelles.com/forum/frown.gif onto the mount because I broke one of the studs. I wish I had had access to a Bridgeport. Nevertheless, I don't consider myself a rapist of original parts at all. It works mint and looks correct.

You should be careful when using steel bushings in a shifter. They are nice & direct when you race it, but if you drive the sucker a lot you may damage your own arm! They transmit vibrations into your arm & with mess it up, really!

I wanted to order that Hurst kit today but the guy needed to know what type of muncie I had. I told him a M21, he said he need a # like 451 or 453??? what # is he talking about???? also, what is in the install kit?, i think i heard from someone on the team that said i needed that?? he;'going to charge me 210. + 125 for the install kit. So should I weld the Muncie to the Hurst? instead of using the screws?
What would be easier? repairing what i have or doing the Hurst conversion? also will the Hurst include the reverse lock out and make the ring turn around the column just like factory, so my key will come out when its supposed to and stay in when its supposed to? or is this another problem all together??? Sorry for my ignorance guys, im learning alot with every reply and every one is appreciated. thanks
Joe

Jov, what do you mean by doing all that welding?? what does that do? will it resolve my problem, is your way a permanent fix? I do want to consider all options. But so far it seems like the best solution is the Hurst solution. Like i said earlier, Origionality is important, but functionality is also Is welding a permanent fix? Or did we open up another can of worms?? Thanks again guys.

Joe.

Joe,
Is your Muncie the original 1970 4sp from your car? The difference is the shifter shafts which come through the side cover. The arms will be attached to the shifter shafts with either a nut or a bolt. Which do you have? For the purpose of ordering a Hurst, this DOES make a difference.
If, in fact, you do have a 1970 Muncie, (arms attach with bolts) here is what you need:
Shifter-3918014 (fits 68-72)
Install kit-3737834 (fits 69-72)
But if your arms attach to the shifter shafts with nuts, then you will need the 3733163-Install kit-fits 68 (same shifter).
And now for one last kicker. If you want to save a little money, you can order the shifter WITHOUT a handle (the 3918014 comes with a HURST handle). The number for the shifter without a handle is 3918010. And why am I so sure? Because I have just done this with 2 cars (70-71) this year. One console, one bench seat. Same parts.

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Good point DZ. I got screwed up because the Muncie in my '67 is a '69 and later with the through bolts. It cost me $45 for the right shifter arms. Ouch.

DZ, its a origional 70 with the bolts. L78 M21 with 4.11 to 1 rear.

OK Joe,
You have the Hurst numbers for your car. If and when you call Summit, don't just take my word for it, have the guy verify that the numbers I gave you are right for a 70 Muncie in a 70 Chevelle. I am human, but they should be what you need.
If, in fact, you are going to do the original handle mod-to-Hurst installation, TAKE YOUR TIME AND BE CAREFUL. Drill only ONE hole in the handle first, bolt it to the Hurst and adjust the position of the handle before drilling that second hole.

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DZAUTO, You mentioned that the plastic slider used in the console can be used after changing to a comp+ shifter. I cannot seem to get this slider to work on my conversion over to the comp+. It seems to bind somewhat. Can you describe in further detail directly to my email address on how this can still work. I would really appreciate it. How about anyone else - have you been able to retain the plastic slider after a conversion to the hurst shifter? Would help to keep "stuff" from falling onto the console area. Thanks....

DZ, I know with my '67 conversion ( rubber boot thank God and lots of room for error) the shifter came up just about a 1/2" to the right of the stock location. You might have to, ever so slightly and carefully, enlarge the opening. I wish I had one to look at. I'm sure it can be done.

Super,
Without having your shifter/console in front of me to observe, it's hard to say why it binds. Is your handle pretty much centered in the square hole when it's in the neutral position? The original Muncie handle is a softer metal than a Hurst handle which makes it easier to bend if necessary (BUT BE VERY, VERY CAREFUL). Remove the handle, protect it with rags or something, place it in a vise and make very consertive adjustments (I know everyone does not have a press, but that is what I used with soft boards such as pine to protect the chrome).

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