We have not yet located a BB replacement for my wife's 70 SS, but we're getting anxious to pull the 327 and get to work under the hood... And, we're complete newbies at this...

I have an engine lift / cherry picker -- and an engine stand to put it on. Plus a load balancer with chains. Should I just connect the chains directly using bolts (what size/type)? Or should I get one of those plates intended for bolting on so that you can hook up to the engine?

Can anyone describe (in detail?) the procedure for removing the 327? Prep work to do before doing anything else? Everything that needs to be disconnected? Maybe the best order to do it in? What tools that I'll need beyond wrenches and a socket set? Anything specific to worry about concerning disconnecting the transmission (and M-21)? Will anything sit on the ground after I pull the engine or should I still be able to roll the car around as needed?

And, we'll be going BB -- so no use leaving anything that we can't re-use. The radiator itself is the original heavy duty one intended for the original BB, so I assume we can leave that alone. The shroud will be different though, correct? So I'll pull that.

In any case, just worried about doing this and would like a nice "checklist" of things to do and how to do them if anyone is willing!

Thanks much!

- John...

If you do a search on this topic, you will find a bunch of stuff. But I just did this recently (I'm a newbie too) so here is what we did:

Are you going to take the tranny too? If you do,

Disconnect: Drive shaft, speedo cable, trans linkage, exhaust, fuel lines, any cooling lines, carb linkage

Remove: Hood, fan shroud, fan, starter, power steering pump, AC compressor (you'll want to wire up the PS pump and AC compressor somewhere), distributor, and alternator. Remove trans/engine mount bolts.

Use grade 5 or better bolts. I put mine in the head in front, and manifold in the back. Don't use the lift plate with the load leveler, you'll need to have the chains attached front and back to work properly.

Disconnect any miscellaneous items attached to your engine.

If you are leaving the transmission, the process will be slightly different.

The hoist and load leveler will work great for you, just go slow, and be patient, and the job will go fairly easy.

Kevin

Thanks for the tips. We will indeed be leaving the transmission though. Our plan is to continue using the M-21 with the 396...

- John...

I'd pull the motor/trans together.

I'd drop the cross member and tranny. Makes it easier to get the engine out. I'd also remove the radiator just to insure it doesn't get damaged during the removal or install activities. You might also consider removing the distributor or at least the cap and rotor since it's your first time. Don't forget to disconnect ALL the clutch linkage from the Z bar. The Z bar will separate when the engine lifted. Lift the engine slightly with the hoist then remove the long engine mount bolts.

An engine can be removed in less than an hour once the exhaust is disconnected from the manifold. Just go SLOW. An engine swinging on a hoist is not conducive to a "whoops" and is VERY dangerous to fingers and hands.

P.S. Don't forget to plug the fuel line after it's disconnected from the pump.

Good tips above. I'd remove the trans first too... I find it easier that way. A muncie is only 85 or so pounds, so it's not bad to remove from under the car. Plus, when you angle it, it'll leak out the tailshaft if it's attatched to the engine.

Be prepared for the mess though, you'll get antifreeze all over from the engine. I've use b oth the load leveler, and the carb plate for lifting engines, and I like the carb plate better. With the added lift height required by the load leveler, I had trouble with the hoist not lifting the engine high ehough to get it over the front of the car. With the carb plate, you can put the hoist hook right above the intake, and have more lift height available.

Good luck! If you were closer I'd offer to come give you a hand. I've taken my SB/4spd out of my chevelle in just a few hours.... smile.gif

chris

As far as dropping the tranny down... I don't have access to a lift or anything really. So, would you still recommend dropping the cross member and such? I guess I was hoping to not have anything sitting on the ground while we work/clean under the hood off and on for a month or two. I'd like to be able to roll the car around a bit if I can do it that way.

Would leaving the tranny in place be that bad? Worth the hassle of dropping it down?

(Note that I'm open to your recommendations -- if you guys think it best to do that and deal with any hassle of moving the car around later -- then I'll listen to you and drop it down! Not trying to argue with you at all -- just trying to confirm that that is worth doing when I don't have access to a lift and such. smile.gif )

Thanks!

- John...

I just take a piece of scrap metal that stretches across the frame rails, and weld it on underneathe the trani. pan, just enough of a bead on each side it won't break off. Than I'll stick whatever size shim of wood on top of it to go under the trani. pan and hold it up. On my Nova it takes a 1" thick piece of wood. That way you can leave the driveline, speed-o cable, shift linkage, etc. all hooked up, and the car still has a "park".

When you take out an engine with a trans attatched, you need to angle it pretty good. Not a problem if you have a hoist that goes high enough. You'll have to get under the car anyway, to remove the crossmember before pulling the engine even if you pull the trans with it.

To pull the trans out while in the car.... I just jack the car high enough on 4 stands. Use a small floor jack to lift the trans off the crossmember, by putting it under the bellhousing(i have a lakewood)remove trans mount bolts, z-bar, distributor and exhaust and mostly everything else first..... Remove the crossmember, and slowly lower the jack. Now the trans is angled down, and you can unbolt it and remove. Then the engine just pulls mostly straight up. After removing the trans, you can probably lower the bellhousing jack completely, and allow the engine to rock back on it's mounts temporarily. Then you can take the car off the stands, and get back to a normal height before fiunally pulling the engine.

If you leave the trans attatched to the engine... You'll need to make sure you remove the shifter handle, and you'll have to take out the crossmemnber as well. I'd be more careful about rocking the engine back with the trans attatched.... the mounts may not like that, but would probably be ok. Definately make sure the distributor is out.... they don't like being smashed into the firewall.

I would definately use one of the 2 above options though...remove trans first or at the same time as engine. You'll just give yourself a headache trying to remove the engine, while leaving the trans in the car. Especially on re-installation smile.gif

If you do it with the trans attatched, you'll definately like using the load leveler. The carb plate is better for straight picks, like without the trans holding everything all crooked.

chris

Or just place a 2x2 or 2x4 across the frame under the front shaft of the tranny, M20 isn't heavy. Support tranny with floor jack while removing engine. Place 2x2 across frame and lower tranny. A couple of bungie cords from bellhouing up to cowl will keep trans from sliding to either side. Put my car up on a trailer and hauled it a few miles with trans supported that way, no problems.

Originally posted by bulb122:
Good luck! If you were closer I'd offer to come give you a hand. I've taken my SB/4spd out of my chevelle in just a few hours.... smile.gif Waterford is about 150 miles -- what would it take to make it worth your while? :D

I've got a basement full of arcade games to play! :cool:

- John...

John,
I know it sounds complicated but it's really not that difficult if you take it one step at a time. I usually remove the tranny first because it takes less lift and hassel dealing with the engine on the hoist. Others may like to leave the tranny on. I've done many, both ways. Either way, you WILL make a mess under the car from transmission oil and antifreeze. It's a fact of pulling an engine.

There are a couple of ways to minimize losing the trans. oil, a spare yolk or a special plastic tube (odered from one of our suppliers) to plug the end of the trans. You can avoid some of the antifreeze mess by removing the block drains but they are a major pain (if they even come out) and IMHO not worth the trouble. The block still retains some coolant that runs out when the engine is tilted. It's worth having several bags of CHEAP kitty litter handy. (or a large bag of oil-sorb from a commercial garage or Costco). Makes containment and clean-up easier.

By removing the transmission before removing the engine, you essentially accomplish a significant part of the removal task and eliminate it as part of the engine removal problem. (I knew some guys once that could pull a Muncie 4 speed in 15 mins without raising the car. But they're probably doing hard time now.) After you pull the tranny you can remove the car from the jack stands and pull the engine.

If you choose to pull the engine with the tranny attached, you will need to insure you have enough lift height with the hoist, and room under the car to lower the tranny to clear the lower part of the firewall. It's not usually a problem with the car on the jack stands but then there's the lift height issue. May not be not a problem but you won't know until the whole assembly is dangling from the hoist. Heck of time to have to jack the body up. Again, just MHO.

Dropping the drive shaft and removing the shifter handle isn't that big of a deal to me. BTW, you will eventually have to remove the tranny to put the engine on that stand. So, my recommendation, eat the elephant one bite at a time. Remove the transmission, set it aside for cleaning and be done with it, then pull the engine. If you're feeling spunky on the re-install, put them back in as a unit.

Just my $.02 worth. Everyone here will help you with advice regardless of which way you choose.

/herb

Ok -- sounds good. I think I'll go with removing the tranny first then. Although, I have to admit to not even knowing exactly what is involved there. Will I be leaving the drive shaft connected at the axle end? Basically, just follow bulb122's "To pull the trans out while in the car" paragraph, yes?

Thanks again for all the advice, everyone. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

- John...

Originally posted by jgoggan:
Waterford is about 150 miles -- what would it take to make it worth your while? :D

I've got a basement full of arcade games to play! :cool:

- John... Hehe! Depending on when you planned on doing it, I might be persuaded to give you a hand. smile.gif

If I remember the other post correctly, you're a Halo player too :cool:

Feel free to shoot me an email if you like...I'll give you my number.

Chris

John, if you remove the trans first, you'll have to remove the driveshaft completely. You need to undo the axle side first, and then pull the trans side out from the trans. Be careful to not knock the u-joint caps off, and then wrap some tape around the u-joint after you take it off the axle to keep the caps on. If the caps come off, they are a little challenging to re-install with all the little needle bearings in there... i've learned the hard way smile.gif

It's really not that bad a job, it's pretty straight forward. Pretty much disconnect anything that's connected to the parts you're trying to remove. (Like the driveshaft) Honestly, the stuff that takes the most time for me is the little stuff. Like pulling apart the console to remove the shifter handle. The silly stuff takes all the time.

My engine seems to get taken out of the car often enough, that I don't have any trouble with stuff getting stuck. BUT, if you have say, stock manifolds and old rusty pipes, they could be more difficult to get apart. Now that I think about it, that's pretty much the only thing I can think of that could be difficult...everything else is really straight forward.

chris

Ok -- sounds good. We actually don't currently have a center console -- so that should help with that issue. And, the headers were new from Summit just last summer -- so I expect that they'll come off just fine.

Now -- I'm going to need new headers to bolt up to the BB when I put it in, correct? So I should just unbolt the SB ones completely and pull them out for storage, I assume. Then when I get the BB, I'll get new headers for it that should bolt up to the existing exhaust pipes, I believe...

- John...

I removed engine and tranny together.
Something i did to make it somewhat easier was to just remove all of the front sheetmetal. It comes off in one piece, after you've removed the bumper and grille.
Just unbolt the back bolts around the doors and hood hinges and the fronts on either side of the radiator (where the radiator support mounts to the frame). Make sure you unplus all of the lightsa and stuff too.
It was pretty easy to remove everything and made it so I didn't have to angle the engine/tranny much at all. Not to mention it was much easier to hook up the headers, etc.

Yeah, in order of PITA, the exhaust is first, then the shifter, the tranny and the engineis last. Meaning it's the easiest thing to pull,

FIRST and foremost, park it where you are going to work on it and CHOCK the rear wheels both in front and behind the tire!!!! BOTH OF THEM. Even after you set teh e-brake. Until the engine is hanging free on the hoist ready to be picked out, you don't want the car moving.

Step 1, disconnect the drive shaft at the rear end. Remove it carefully by loweringit and sliding it to the rear. Plug the end of the trannny with the pastic tube. Then wrap the u-joint ends with duct tape. Stand the drive shaft in the corner of the garage out of the way. You're done with it.

Step 2, everything else ;)

If in doubt, buy a book and read up on it before starting. It really isn't that hard. Take bulb122 up on his offer!

will the SB motor mounts work on a BB? ive always wandered about this, and have heard they will, but wasnt to sure. i may be doing a BB swap soon.

so thanks for all the tips.

aaron

Do a search Aaron. There are some instances where they will. I'm not sure what they are.

Well -- the 327 is out! HUGE thanks to Chris (bulb122) for making the 2+ hour drive to help me with this and walk me through it! I learned a ton!

Thanks again, Chris!

Now to get to work on cleaning things up and getting a 396 to us! smile.gif

- John...

John; Make sure the 396 has the pilot bushing in the back of the crank for the manual trans, and measure it's I.D. and the O.D. of the transmission's input shaft. Also, don't forget to grease it. As someone already recommended, get a good book on engine/tranny swaps.

Enjoy your quest, and good luck on the progress. When you're done, take it easy 'til you get used to the added torque of the big block, as it'll surprise you in sometimes not-so-pleasant ways! Hold on! Steve

Thanks for the tips! Chris reminded me of the same thing about the pilot bushing -- I'll certainly check as soon as I have the 396.

I think I just finalized the 396 deal tonight -- so now it is just a matter of final payment and shipping/freight...

- John...

No sweat.... turned out to be pretty simple and quick smile.gif

One thing I forgot to ask you though...what gears do you have?


chris

Do yourself a favor and pull it out front of your garage on the driveway if it is concrete b/c it will make a mess!!

The get a couple of Buddies to help push her back inside....

Just put a couple of baggies over the tranny and rubber band it real good and also throw three or four wraps of Duct-tape around it AND pull everything together!!!

Been there done that!!!

Just go slow and if you have to, pull it from the side if the boom won't extend far enough????

Straddle a front tire!!

I had to put my motor in my '67 Camaro sideways and I just carefully twisted my SB up and out and my BB back down into place JUST FINE to go back in.... Tranny and all...

My driveway had a 3/4" to 1" drop at the garage floor/driveway joint and I figured with my motor on the Cherry-picker, I couldn't roll it up over the lip is why I went sideways, that and the darn boom was a schosh too short, even totally extended....

pdq67

Originally posted by bulb122:
One thing I forgot to ask you though...what gears do you have?I believe 3.55 -- based on actually turning them manually and counting/estimating. I've never actually had it open and the previous owner wasn't positive. It is posi.

- John...

Originally posted by pdq67:
Do yourself a favor and pull it out front of your garage on the driveway if it is concrete b/c it will make a mess!!Thanks, but a little late -- we pulled it last weekend. smile.gif

Actually, I drained most of it and it wasn't too bad in the end. And I didn't want to do it outside because:

1. It's freezing out there! That's why I installed the electric heater two weeks ago!

2. We have a lot of neighborhood pets that I'd rather not kill off. ;)

Thanks though!

- John...

Everything is pretty well covered. I'd pull the tranny as well so you can fit the bellhousing, clutch assembly to the new engine on the stand not laying on your back with limited access. Do pull the radiator, I got to spend $65 to repair mine when my helper got overly excited and punched the water pump nose into it. Leave the hoses attached to the power steering and a/c just disconnect the brackets and swing them out of the way. Pull distributor to keep from banging up the shaft and counterweight assy. Label wiring, vaccum lines etc. and take digital pictures so you don't have to remember so much 3 months from now. Puts bolts, etc. into labeled baggies.

I had to disconnect my emergency brake cable to drop exhaust, don't forget to block wheels. Watch you fingers and only keep the engine as high as you need to at any time. 4 wheel picker is recommended over a three leg model to limit tipping. Good luck, I swapped my engine out a month ago and pulled two on Saturday (original and donor engines and auto trans) and had new engine and trans in on Sunday.