What bugs me even more than fictional engine costs is totally hidden and unmentioned hot rod costs.
Most of these build ups go like this; we took the engine to XXXXX engine shop and had this, that and the other things done. Then they put on Blah. Blah. Blah and so forth - name brand this and that - - port matched, polished blah, blah.
THEN we took the body to XXXX pro body shop and Blah ,Blah - - - Media blasted, prep, hand worked ---- blah, etc, etc.
THEN we took it to XXXX paint shop for custom blah, blah, blah - - - -
THEN we took it to XXXXX interiors for custom color hand made tuck, roll, leather, Blah, Blah - - - -
Of course the custom tubular frame was hand fabricated by - - blah, blah, with custom suspension by XXXXX and special disc brake setup by XXXXXX blah blah.
The 2900 watt CD sound system is custom made by XXXXX, and installed by XXXXX.
45 pulls were made on the dyno so that the special 6 speed racing trans could be matched to the specially set up 79 bolt (if 10 is good and 12 are better then 79 -- - - -) rear end at XXXXX race shop.
Etc, Etc, Etc, Etc, ad nauseum.
None of which has any bearing on what I am trying to do in my shop at home for a few bucks.
WHAT DO YOU RECKON ALL THAT COSTS? They never mention it !!
I prefer the $500 engine that really cost $1000.

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[This message has been edited by 283v8 (edited 12-22-98).]

I have been reading these mags since the late 50's and have always been bugged by the fact that they rarely mention what ANYTHING costs in the real world. Obviously they get a lot of stuff for free, but that is no excuse to not mention the retail prices. Another item is the availability of parts: Hot Rod once did a project car with a Siata transmission. You see those all the time at the yards and swap meets. Pleas get real, guys.

Most of the "stuff" and services are given to the magazines in exchange for "ink".

I have no problem with this, cause it allows the readers to see what is new on the market.

There IS a problem with this however in that the guys that write stuff for a living loose sight of what stuff REALLY costs!! They are not evil, they just don't know what the average guy has has to pay.

This also leads to another thing that bugs me! I'm also real sick of reading about how "they" built so-and-so car when it was done by a collection of professional shops (read the first posting).


I'm done! I feel better now.

Wes.

What bugs me the most about the magazine writers is how they think they are they voice of knowledge, Ever notice how they write for awhile then disappear? It's because they are now writing for Modern Bride or House Beautiful. They are journalists first and foremost but try to make us think they are automotive experts and fellow gearheads.

I have to agree with the prior responses. I've been reading these rags for 25 years and couldn't begin to tell you how many dollars I spent as a young impressionable hot rodder on the latest, trick of the week parts only to find that they didn't work for me the way that they worked for the magazine writers. Fortuneately some older racers in my area took me in under their wing and taught me what had taken them years to learn. Now I try to do the same whenever I can, but it's hard to get a young guy to believe that a lot of what he has just read was written by people that are motivated in their journalistic slant by the need to sell parts. Maybe I've become too cynical over the years but there is a lot of junk being sold out there and the articals and ads make it impossible to sort out the good from the bad. That is what makes an information exchange like this one so valuable.

Most of the writers that I've talked to or have met ARE into cars. (varing degrees of knowledge though)

Their job is to sell magazines! Nothing more!

I'm old enough (at times I wish I wasn't) to know that you have to read between the lines. I just get bugged that you HAVE too, and that if you didn't know any better you would be out buying snake oil.

Wes

oops

[This message has been edited by Wes V (edited 12-23-98).]

Wes, check your profile. You can whack a boo-boo. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif As a matter of fact, bud, you can do anything in here, thanks for your years of support.

I agree with all your responses guys. Maybe the reason for the emphasis on high dollar stuff is that the main concern for the mag is to promote their advertisers (and ultimately their sales), our pocketbook being secondary. And maybe the reason for no prices is that they woudn't want to scare us off before we did so much as made a phone call to the supplier.
My .02,
Rich

Car CRaft has the issue out right now with combos and cost. Hold onto your wallet for some of them, I think Car craft is at point right now that they are trying to reach the same group of people that come to Team Chevelle and the other not so informed crowd.The last few issues have been pretty good.The last Super Chevy that I got is more like a car show and superchevy show promo than anything else. I do like Super Chevy for the car pics and chevy info although the info is limited they seem to have a good Tech page. Chevy High Performace has some cool cars in it. The one that comes to memory is a 70 or so chevelle that is orange and set up for handling quite well,this is a must read for everyone this car is cool.The mag must be put out by GM because it always has about 10 pages of GM stuff in it.

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CRUISER

I've got to basically agree with most everything said on this subject. I think all the downside has been mentioned already. I'd like to play the other side just for grins:

1. What do you guys think of Car Craft since David Frieburger has become editor? IMHO he's tried to address and correct everything mentioned here. Maybe he's even gone a little too far in the El Cheapo department! If this is what you guys really want, support Car Craft magazine with your subsription dollars and (important) letters!

2. I look at the high zoot car buildups not as something I can do, but what I could aspire to do. It makes me work harder at what I can afford to do and try to improve my (in)abilaties. Hey, I don't play football like Joe Montana, but I'd rather see him play football than the local YMCA club.

3. Many times the mentioned pro's can show us a time or money saving tip if the article is truthfull. I really like the (admittedly rare) article that shows a decrease in performance or some other boo-boo. With a scientific attitude we can learn something after a negative result as well as a positive result.

Bruce


[This message has been edited by Bruce Allison (edited 12-23-98).]

Well i agree with all the things that are anoying about most of the mags building pro street ((daily drivers)) Yea right with no prices. But i agree with Bruce i really think car craft is doing a really good job lately with there cheap street 71 chevelle and now they are working on a dodge somthing i forget but give them a try.

Charles

I know most of the "Do It Yourself" articles and the car building ones also, are geared for the "bottomless wallet", "keep up with the Jonses'" people. I now read the articles to get "IDEAS",to get the brain matter moving around, and think of cheaper ways to get to the same end as the big money projects that have all the top name goodies on their "project" cars. It must be nice to be rich though huh?

I've been a subscriber to Car Craft, Hot Rod, and CHP for almost 7 years. I really like the new format that Car Craft has taken with Frieburger. He's a cool guy; a friend who works for Four Wheeler introduced me at a company party last year (he was editor of Four Wheeler before CC). Sometimes the low-buck thing is non-applicable, like trying to get a '68 Belvedere 225-6 to run 17s by pulling off the altertnator and power steering . . . but it beats some of the high-dollar pro-street stuff you see in Hot Rod. CHP is still my favorite, especially because of the pro-touring thing they're doing with Mark Stielow and his awesome Camaros. And that 6-speed conversion article.

I have to agree the point these guys miss is money, they don't pay the bills we do.When I built my engine and I say I built I did .The only outside work was a three angle valve job a balanced crank I even balanced the rods and pistons, did all of the port and polish work matching of ports, degreeing of cam the whole interior of the block is polished for oil return, water outlets ported.Also modified the trans TH375b with a few tricks.And I am not afraid to let poeple know I did the work my self.Mainly if I had to pay to have the work done I work be driving an import...FRED

You hit the nail on the head Wes. I know most of us can't make 500 hp out of our small block rebuilds the first time out, but we're doing the best we can, putting engines together and solving problems, mostly without the help of some hi-tech machine shop or engine builder / restorer. My engine may not run like it was just built by John Lingenfelter, but I did it myself and it was fun and I'm proud of it. Thanks to all you folks out there for answers to my problems. This site is worth it's weight in 20 years worth of magazine subcriptions. Merry Christmas everyone. Wally in MA

As another who has tired of the content of Super Chevy, I was surprised to find how much I have liked Muscle Car Review. I have picked up the last 3 at the newstand and really appreciate their focus on predominately stock muscle cars of all years and makes. Check it out.

I realize a Camaro is a Chevy but CHP should change it's name to Camaro High Perfomance They seem to take up more and more each issue...FRED

I've checked out the latest issues of Car Craft and have been reasonably impressed. Kind of reminds me of the days when Rick Voeglin was editor. Whats up with Super Chevy? I refuse to buy a magazine thats 90% advertisements. If you are at all into drag racing, and I am, I feel the best mag out there right now is Drag Racing Monthly. I used to have a lot of subscriptions but this is the only one I've renewed. Excellent in-depth tech, behind the scenes interviews, and a political slant that is not beholden to any sanctioning body.

I have a few comments:
1) A friend gave me a copy of CHP. Very cool first read. I got all ga ga over performance and decided to include a 12 bolt rebuild in the resto based on their article. Then I talked to my mechanic and asked what he would charge to put my axle together. He said he wouldn't even try it! He said "take it to an axle specialist". This job takes a lot of practice to do right. CHP acts like you can do it in a weekend! What's up with that?

2) I have been reading Muscle Car Review for 7 years. This is my kind of mag, but I am getting a little bored with it because it only comes out every other month. Their resources are so limited that the they really can't cover as much as I would like to see. (too many Mopars from Florida)

3)As my 8 year 67 SS restification (almost bone stock) nears completion, I found myself wondering how my 396 4 speed would do on a drag strip. I bought a copy of Hot Rod, which I haven't read in years. I quit getting it when they started covering nothing but fat fendered pro street cars from the 40s. This issue was a fairly interesting one on fuel injection. It is unlikely I'll ever do this to a car, but it was a decent read. Cost? Forget about it!

4)This week I bought Super Chevy. I like the captions by each picture, but its not as cool as CHP.

I have been blowing so much cash on this restoration this year that cost has just become this unpleasant spreadsheet on my computer. Man, am I going to feel guilty when this car is done.

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The only car mags I get right now are Car Craft and Super Chevy. Car Craft has gone in the right direction, but I think just a little too far. If I ever see a thrashed Buick stationwagon beater, the first thing I think is NOT "so ugly it's cool"....it's more like "Hell, that's ugly!" But they're getting the right idea...more "real world". Now if someone took a Buick wagon, added a big-block, nice paint and stickies, then they'd have my attention.

As for Super Chevy; too many articles that are nothing more than thinly (VERY) disguised advertisements. Earlier this year they did a rear suspension hop-up on a Camaro by some such company (can't remember) to improve 60 foot performance. But when they quantified the wonderful results this system added, they mentioned at the very last that they also added some sticky big mambo tires...("Oh, yeah, we also added these, too, but that's no big deal.") As if this somehow wouldn't skew the results. It seemed to me that after they did the change there was no improvement, so they had to throw something else on to save face (and mollify the part maker/advertiser). What a crock! Why not save 400 bucks and just get the tires?!

I'm also get tired of seeing manufacturer addresses including "Dept. SC" or "Dept. CC". I know this is to show the manufacturers what magazine they're being seen in if anyone actually writes to them...but it still seems pretty shallow to me. It's rare to see a really critical review of something anymore. The best you can hope for is that some magazines are at least relating the various myths surrounding hot rod parts, in a very general way.

Hey guys, These magazines serve a purpose (make money for the publisher, vendors etc)and are geared to the people who buy them. Since I have been gifted with 10 thumbs and shallow pockets, I don't subscribe to any of them. I do buy them if they have a good article on something I plan on doing or am in the middle of. Completing some of these projects they show (without price tags!)would take the equivalent of me hitting the powerball and then performing brain surgery based on an article I read in Neurosurgeon's Quarterly. But hey, we can still pick them up and see the cool stuff that can be done! It also allows us to set goals and disregard what doesn't apply. For me, this site has been more helpful than any 2 years worth of those mags. Just my $00.02 By the way, does anyone know what John Lingenfelter is doing for New Years or Know if he wants to adopt a 38 year old chevelle owner?
kevin d