http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?action=prod_detail&catid=120&pid=119

Anybody have experience with this motor? It is about in line with how much I'd like to spend on a motor swap. The more I've been thinking about it, I will probably have more invested in a complete rebuild than what I can get into this GM crate motor for.

I know of a few running around,and I've driven one with a Doug Nash 5 speed/3.07 gear..if you have the cash to spend,its a good value if you don't wanna play around with hunting down parts,trips to the machine shop,etc. and you just want to drop in a reliable motor that makes respectable tq/hp

Also, be aware that GMPP just released the new ZZ454 crate motor that is a 440hp version of the 454HO adding aluminum heads, water pump, and fancy valve covers.
graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Ooooooohh!! Got any other specs on it? What kind of price is that thing runnin?

PRIVATE COWBOY, HOW TALL ARE YOU??!!!! I THINK YA BEEN CHEATED!!

Anyway, just had to R. Lee Ermey it up

Anyway, you can build more motor locally for less money than that.

Here's all the info on the new ZZ454:

http://www.greenwoodchevy.com/engine17.htm

Yes, you can roll your own and get it done less expensively built within your specifications using whatever components are available to you locally.

... However, for those of us who live in concrete jungles with no workshop facilities or street performance support, crate motors are a more than suitable alternative. Usually, it's the only alternative. Some of us are all alone out here.

At the very least, you know that what you're buying is all GM.

Originally posted by Big Block Dave:

Anyway, you can build more motor locally for less money than that. The man from New Yawk makes a very good point ;)

& Cowboy.... what are "fancy" valve covers :confused:

The black crackle ones with the machined rib faces and recessed bezel for the GMPP decal that reads '454' or '502'.

Originally posted by Pvt.Cowboy:
The black crackle ones with the machined rib faces and recessed bezel for the GMPP decal that reads '454' or '502'. Thanks Cowboy :D

Originally posted by Big Block Dave:


Anyway, you can build more motor locally for less money than that. Not much cheaper from all my calculations. I haven't been able to find ANY 454 blocks locally, and you always take the risk of buying one online and having it be cracked when you get it.

When I lived in So Cal it would not have been a big deal because of the numerous speed shops. There is ONE in Omaha and its a good 35 min drive.

I still have awhile though to make a decision...the body still needs to come off, the frame is going to get blasted, and the 12 bolt needs a carier.

Originally posted by Got_CID?:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Big Block Dave:


Anyway, you can build more motor locally for less money than that. Not much cheaper from all my calculations. I haven't been able to find ANY 454 blocks locally, and you always take the risk of buying one online and having it be cracked when you get it.

When I lived in So Cal it would not have been a big deal because of the numerous speed shops. There is ONE in Omaha and its a good 35 min drive.

I still have awhile though to make a decision...the body still needs to come off, the frame is going to get blasted, and the 12 bolt needs a carier. </font>[/QUOTE]My point is that you can build MORE motor for less money. Drop in that 454 HO and brag about your 13 second timeslips....build one locally with your specified parts, and reel in some numbers.

Do you really believe that an 8.75:1 motor with that little cam makes that kind of power? I've seen these things in acton before...the best numbers Ive seen have been 12.6's, in a car that was lightened, 4.10s and 3K stall. However, if you add more compression, big valves, som ehad work, big juicy cam etc....you'll spend the same if not a little less and be much happier.

Dave, do you have that movie running on a continual loop in your head or what? ;)

Well I don't really plan on making this into a drag car....just something that can cruise and light up the tires.

I didn't think the cam was that bad...it has 510/540 lift and 211/230 dur. Also, I don't know why GM would lie about HP and torque numbers and run the risk of getting in trouble like Ford did with the Cobra engines. Dynoing one of these crate motors would be very easy.

Like I said, I still have time before I make my decision and if I can find a good block I would like to build it from scratch. If not, then its probably the crate motor.

That is what I have in my SS, but I got it at a discount and imediatly had even more motor work done, in my opinion it is alot easier to get a good solid motor to start with then do even more to it, plus I sold all the original stuff I ended up not using and since they were almost brand new, they sold for a pretty penny and helped offset the cost of building the motor even more than it was. The motor under my sig. is that same motor with all the other stuff listed done to it. In my opinion you will be very happy with it, but I am a young gun and believe that you can never have to much power. Would be a great motor, specially for a daily driven street car. Let me tell you that even before the build-up, it was very fast and I beat many people who thought that the ugly ass chevelle sitting next to them could not possibly have a chance against them.

Originally posted by Just_Another_Mike:
Dave, do you have that movie running on a continual loop in your head or what? ;) As long as I dont pull a Private Pyle while sitting on the can with my M1A, everything is fine:)

Dont get me wrong, the crate motor isnt a bad motor, you just dont get much for your money. THAT is ALOT of money for that set up, and yes I do beleive GM would fudge the numbers on these motors...they know that the people who buy them arent building drag cars....the people who buy them are looking for a replacement engine to run on pump gas, and if they can say "it makes 425 hp" to someone who asks them at the drive-in, it gives a sense of deep sense of pride to the owner.

When the HO 454 came out, Hot Rod did a dyno comparason between the "new" HO 454, and the "old" LS-6 crate engine that was being discontinued.

They had to rig the test by retarding the timing of the LS-6, to ensure the HO 454 would "win", and thus justify all the compromises made in the HO.

I still believe the LS-6 would have wiped the nose of the HO 454 if they had used proper timing (and, admittedly, proper gasoline) for the test. It might also have killed the HO 454 sales.

Is the HO a bad engine? NO. But BIG BLOCK DAVE is right. The HO is a "convenience" package, with a nice warranty. You can build stronger, less expensive engines if you have the skills, time, experience, real estate and enthusiasm. And not everyone wants to deal with those issues.

Originally posted by Big Block Dave:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Just_Another_Mike:
Dave, do you have that movie running on a continual loop in your head or what? ;) As long as I dont pull a Private Pyle while sitting on the can with my M1A, everything is fine:)</font>[/QUOTE]:D

® Originally posted by Schurkey:
When the HO 454 came out, Hot Rod did a dyno comparason between the "new" HO 454, and the "old" LS-6 crate engine that was being discontinued.

They had to rig the test by retarding the timing of the LS-6, to ensure the HO 454 would "win", and thus justify all the compromises made in the HO.

I still believe the LS-6 would have wiped the nose of the HO 454 if they had used proper timing (and, admittedly, proper gasoline) for the test. It might also have killed the HO 454 sales.

Is the HO a bad engine? NO. But BIG BLOCK DAVE is right. The HO is a "convenience" package, with a nice warranty. You can build stronger, less expensive engines if you have the skills, time, experience, real estate and enthusiasm. And not everyone wants to deal with those issues. I never saw the benchmark test, but you make the timing issue sound like they deliberately got the LS-6 to take a dive. ;)

The reality is that Super Hi-Test gas is gone, and has been gone since most people here were either playing with their GAF Viewmaster® (http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/images/Optical%20Toys/viewer-bluebutton.JPG) or were one of three trillion blind, wiggly-tailed gametes serving time inside their father's testes. We were still sending troops into Vietnam when that gas was last available, and that was three wars ago. Lynyrd Skynyrd was still just a high-school garage band back then. I'm 35 now, and barely remember that 101+ octane gas except that it made gas stations smell like burning sauerkraut.

My point is that comparing the two mills is irrelevant in the first place; Modernity requires different architecture.

No-one's arguing against Big Block Dave's point; Sure, you can get more for your money elsewhere if that's what you're looking for.

Like the man said, most people getting a GM crate simply want a drop-in solution for a cruiser that will lay a little rubber outside the Dairy Queen. If I want to build a race car, I sure won't be doing it with a fully restored 1968 SS396 convertible. I'll pull a 1978 Chevy Monza out of the weeds and radically alter it and the title will never see the inside of the DMV system. It'd be trailer to track to trailer only.

No-one will miss a Monza. :D

I don't know why so many people dislike crate engines. Theoretically you might be able to get a motor that makes as much hp if not more for less money, but you have to go through the hassels of finding a good machine shop, and matching the right parts. The fact is that there alot of things tht can go wrong when rebuilding motors. Most of which aren't covered by any warrenty. I would love to build my own engine, but I lack the tools, space, ant time to do it. Many people are in that situation too. I'm only 15 and work at an auto shop and maybe I don't know enough yet but thats what I have to say. My friend's dad has on of these engines in his Nova and its great. Makes all the power you could wan't for the street. I mean its a 454. Any one with that under his or her hood should be smiling everytime they stomp the gas. Just my 2cents

Originally posted by 70chevelle15:
I don't know why so many people dislike crate engines. Theoretically you might be able to get a motor that makes as much hp if not more for less money, but you have to go through the hassels of finding a good machine shop, and matching the right parts. The fact is that there alot of things tht can go wrong when rebuilding motors. Most of which aren't covered by any warrenty. I would love to build my own engine, but I lack the tools, space, ant time to do it. Many people are in that situation too. I'm only 15 and work at an auto shop and maybe I don't know enough yet but thats what I have to say. My friend's dad has on of these engines in his Nova and its great. Makes all the power you could wan't for the street. I mean its a 454. Any one with that under his or her hood should be smiling everytime they stomp the gas. Just my 2cents I wish I had been able to even consider dropping a few grand all at one time for a crate motor when I was 15. We had to send money orders off to J.C. Whitney for a few parts at a time to rebuild our screaming 283 small blocks on the garage floor. graemlins/clonk.gif

Well I got my two spreadsheets up on excel, and as I calculate more and more, I'm only at around $400 less to build my own motor than to buy the crate. I have a contact that can get me this crate motor locally for the same price as SDPC. Now I am using all brand new parts, including a brand new GM Gen VI block, and GMPP heads.

I am still VERY torn between the two choices. One day I'm all for the crate, and the next day I want to go with the complete build up.

I've seen dyno tests for the 454 HO in Car Craft and in Hot Rod..the hp/torque #'s are legit,even slightly underrated.Again,nice motor if you have the cash,and don't have the time,skill or patience to build a motor.I built my 454 for $2500 including buying a used shortblock and a pair of bare closed chamber heads and has gone a best of 12.99 with 2.73's and no tuning.

Originally posted by Got_CID?:

I am still VERY torn between the two choices. One day I'm all for the crate, and the next day I want to go with the complete build up. Every time you start that motor, you will be glad you built it yourself graemlins/thumbsup.gif

See the reason I bought the H.O. 454 and then built it up more is because I knew that the block would be in great shape and would have no risks of cracks and so forth. Plus, I wanted the power to play with until I saved the money up for all the tranny work, new bottom end, top end, and rear end. fun stuff...plus I actually did not expect to have the time and money to build my own motor, but then I got a better job, to where I am getting more money with less hours...therefore time to build my motor without paying a shop to do it!!

Originally posted by mr 4 speed:
I've seen dyno tests for the 454 HO in Car Craft and in Hot Rod..the hp/torque #'s are legit,even slightly underrated. Thats the one thing I wanted to hear!
Also, were you using used heads or did you pick up some new ones? If they were used, where did you get them at?

Originally posted by SuperchargedChevelle454SS:
See the reason I bought the H.O. 454 and then built it up more is because I knew that the block would be in great shape and would have no risks of cracks and so forth. Again, a major reason I'm thinking of going the crate way....or either all new GM block. I've been searching for a block locally, and anything slightly decent is still fetching about $600. Heads are the major money pit though...

i sold what was on the motor when it arrived, bought dart heads and intake...they are great...lots of flow...if you know you are goin to upgrade the heads and intake...immediatly take off the one on the motor when you get it and seel them on ebay as brand new not used...they will bring good money, then that money you make can go to the new ones!!

I had a 396 rebuilt at a local, reputable, well recommended, speed shop. The final bill was way over original estimate. Of course they found, among other things, the crank needed replaced .....and I did add on a few "nice to haves" (roller rockers).

What they put in there for a crank I have no clue.. Now I have a .060 over block with a used crank and used rods and not sure on what other parts may used. I know whats supposed to be new.

When all was said and done the price was within a few hundred of the 454 crate.

My goal is to have a reliable long distance cruiser.

If I had it to do over again I'd go with the NEW 454 engine.

Steve

Back in 1990 I bought a LS6 crate motor and put in my '64 Malibu, that was the best thing I could have done. I ordered the motor, got it 3 days later and in the car and driving around shortly after that. How much power does it make? Who cares? It's a quick street car that is lots of fun to drive. Would I buy another 454 crate motor? Yes, in a heart beat! All new G.M. parts, good block, heads etc. one year warranty, drop it in and turn the key. Dave

DSR do you happen to have the original spec sheet on the LS-6 that you got with the engine. I am looking into buying a car with a crate ls-6. I just wanted to know everything that was in the engine.

thanks
Tom

Hi Tom I didn't receive a spec sheet at the time of purchase but later did get a list from G.M. with all the part numbers that came in my motor, a 1990 LS-6 crate engine Part # 399250 (I'll have to check that engine part #). If that's what your looking for, I can send you a copy. I don't have a scanner but if you e-mail me your address I would be happy to mail you a copy or I could fax you a copy, but the printing is very light on my copy and may not fax too well but worth a try. Dave

I know the ZZ502 has no prevision for a mechanical fuel pump - does this block? Is it the same block as the ZZ502? If not - what GEN is it?

This is only my opinion, but instead of the HO454, I would consider the ZZ502. Where I am from - north in Canada - there is no way to beat this price for this crate even if you have the tools/ facilities and shops at your disposal which we do, and I would challenge anyone to make this many foot/lbs for the same price and have a warrenty to boot.

The 502 was placed into a 1980 Grand AM - (Yes they made grand-ams back then - same as a Lemans), the car with street tires, and pulled an 12.9 pull on street rubber, with a fully loaded car. THat same engine was then placed into an 1966 Acadian (ChevyII for you Americans), and pulled off a high 9 second run. I've seen the slips, and I have the runs on tape. Of course keep in mind the Acadian was a tubular rolling chassis - you can't physically put a big block into a ChevyII without removing the strut towers, or doing a hack job.

Thats just my opinion anyhow.