Suspension suggestions [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: Suspension suggestions


69-CHVL
Aug 17th, 11, 7:49 PM
I cant blame the track anymore.

I have stock springs, sway bars, and replacement HD shocks. I do have SSM/Jegs bars and Eddy adjust uppers. I have tried ET Streets (bias), ET DR's, and the Hoosier DR's. Just blows the tires off.

What can I do here to get the thing to hook, but still remain 100% streetable? I'm keeping the Hooiser DR's - I like the way these track straight.

Stick car dont forget!!!

Tom Mobley
Aug 17th, 11, 8:30 PM
I'd try the Edelbrock hop stops. you might need to put stock type lowers though.

do you get rear body lift at launch? any vids from the side?

GRN69CHV
Aug 17th, 11, 8:36 PM
Right with you Vince. I had tried the UMI Relocate brackets. Didn't really see the improvement I was looking for. I am strongly considering the Art Morrison No-Hops. Don't need a lot of lift in the rear, but do think some would help. But, I kinda wonder if something like a relocated upper is better for an automatic car where you apply power and keep it there as opposed to a stick where the power will be an on/off kinda deal.

69bu
Aug 17th, 11, 8:37 PM
I think Vince has already tried no hops....

I would try ladder bars and tube axle in the front....j/k

Vince I think may some drag springs and soft front shocks but it would probably affect drivability.

I still have some NIB eddy no hops if you want to try them.

69-CHVL
Aug 17th, 11, 8:54 PM
I had the Eddy no-hops and replaced them with the SSM's. The Eddy's were too violent if that makes sense - they hit the rear to hard, and caused alot of body separation during each gear change.

No vids yet.

Yellomalibu
Aug 17th, 11, 9:14 PM
I realize the drag shocks and trick springs say not to use them on the street, but I have done so for years - carefully.

I don't drive like a kid in a honda on the streets... I drive knowing my car doesn't handle as good as the car in front of me; cautiously.

Aside from that, you said sway bars... have you considered removing the end links on the front sway bar when you take the car to the track?

100% streetable means something different to everyone. Often sacrifices have to be made to make the car better at the drag strip. Best of luck.

wilmaya
Aug 17th, 11, 9:57 PM
Vince, I have gotten quite a few 1.54 60's. I run stock rear springs, adjustable uppers and boxed lowers and the SS style reinforcement bar all by Edelbrock. QA1's single adjustable shock set at 8 at the track. Back to zero for the street. H&R bar. Up front 289 springs and Koni Classic's set on soft. No front sway bar. Stock control arm bushings and torqued to factory spec's. M/T Drag Radial's @16lbs. Car drives really smooth on the street. Handling would be really good if I put the front sway bar on.

Tom Mobley
Aug 17th, 11, 10:08 PM
cut 3/4" out of the hop stops and try them again.

jeez, is there enough room to do that?

What a guy really needs is hop stops with adjustable height for the upper bushing.

CDN SS
Aug 17th, 11, 10:37 PM
I agree adjustable good adjustable shocks front and rear Singles should be fine make sure they have as much travel as your suspension ........disconnect sway bar on track day


Stik car right ? Your correct dont need/ want alot of anti squat ( separation) but you can move your IC back some you dont want rear to squat depending on your tires some separation may help, tune that with shocks to allow some extension on launch,fyi with bias slicks mine works best with no separation/ shocks on 80% stiff get car as low as possible in rear ........level with front is great if possible I would reinstall the stock type lower control arms .......rear upper control arms check to see if you can redrill the factory front mounting holes lower ( 66/67 cars you can redrill down 3/4 inch ) that will move you IC back but not as dramatic as no hops none of this will effect street use .......... FWIW

Have you ever tried bias stiff sidewall slicks ??

Tom Mobley
Aug 17th, 11, 11:00 PM
good idea, redrill the front mount points of the upper arms.

69-CHVL
Aug 17th, 11, 11:33 PM
Car sits pretty level. Rather not get rid of the ssm bars/adjust uppers right now. So shocks make a big difference? Do I need to spend the money for those adjustable shocks? The QA1's are like 150.00 a piece! But if they make a difference, I'll consider them. My front springs are very stiff, but I kinda need them so the car doesnt bottom out driving around.

CDN SS
Aug 17th, 11, 11:44 PM
If you want to get your car to hook and then still have a good street handler then yes decent adjustable shocks should be considered ... allow you to tune for both situations QA1 would not be my 1 st choice ( Like alot here I had them got rid of them ......... you want to keep adj uppers especially if you redrill the mount location .. are those SSM control arms close to parallel with the ground when car a rest ??

Tom Mobley
Aug 18th, 11, 2:09 AM
the SSM are lowered in the back, not level at all. That's their main claim to fame, what alters the geometry.

kettbo
Aug 18th, 11, 2:34 AM
I tried the UMI re-lo kit early this year. Maybe right for someone with a different combo, not right for me. Violent hit, destroyed the traction.

I have boxed factory type LCAs, Konis set on stiff, generic rear springs, passenger air bag. Nothin fancy

best of 1.620 using the BFG DRs 275/60 (28 dia), lots of 11.7s
runs 1.63s all day

with a bad track, early FRI, runs 1.7s and 12.0-11.9 so I have mounted up some bigger 295/55 (29 dia) so hope to launch from the get go so as to have performance tuning enhancements rather than suspension tweak every week

betting the taller rubber will get the lca level to the pavement

69-CHVL
Aug 18th, 11, 6:14 AM
Yeah, the SSM bars are lower boxed control arms with the arms tilted downwards. I installed them based on a few folk's recommendation here on how good they work, and the fact that they cured my severe wheel hop problem.

Pretty sure I have just about no front end rise as it is. I'm ok w/disconnecting the front sway bar. Shocks - sounds like this should be done regardless. Can you guys recommend some shocks? Even if I have to change them out for race day, so be it - that doesnt take so long to do.

69-CHVL
Aug 18th, 11, 6:28 AM
I'm borrowing this pic from Marc "gotogo" as we have the same setup:

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=379&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chevelles.com%2Fforums%2Fshow thread.php%3Ft%3D256495&v=1&libid=1313659562456&out=http%3A%2F%2Fi418.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp p264%2Fgotago396%2FIMG_4314.jpg&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chevelles.com%2Fforums%2Fsear ch.php%3Fsearchid%3D7136326%26pp%3D25%26page%3D8&title=SSM%2FJegster%20lift%20bars...needs%20pics%2 0-%20Chevelle%20Tech&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fi418.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp ...6%2FIMG_4314.jpg&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13136596029298

GRN69CHV
Aug 18th, 11, 8:02 AM
I tried the UMI re-lo kit early this year. Maybe right for someone with a different combo, not right for me. Violent hit, destroyed the traction.

I have boxed factory type LCAs, Konis set on stiff, generic rear springs, passenger air bag. Nothin fancy

best of 1.620 using the BFG DRs 275/60 (28 dia), lots of 11.7s
runs 1.63s all day

with a bad track, early FRI, runs 1.7s and 12.0-11.9 so I have mounted up some bigger 295/55 (29 dia) so hope to launch from the get go so as to have performance tuning enhancements rather than suspension tweak every week

betting the taller rubber will get the lca level to the pavement

Interersting point on the relocate brackets. I tried them prior and had no luck. I tend to think lowering the LCA rear mount point will work better on a car with a lowered suspension. At stock height or higher, the LCA is already in a position to apply more leverage on compression than on a lowered car.

Something I have noticed. At static height, the UCA on mine are at about 100% anti-squat (parrallel to the frame). As soon as I air up the passenger side, car rises on that side, UCA gets angled up to probably 80% anti-squat. Maybe the next move should be, bag the bags and finally invest in a frame mount ARB.

Vince and I have talked this over, I know he is reluctant to swap the high rate front springs for a taller/lower rate spring, but I think that should be one of the first mods we make to his car along with some different shocks.

bracketchev1221
Aug 18th, 11, 8:16 AM
Take a trip to Maple Grove first. Cecil has been HORRIBLE this year.

69-CHVL
Aug 18th, 11, 9:05 AM
Take a trip to Maple Grove first. Cecil has been HORRIBLE this year.

You know what Ray, I was thinking same. Then Joe and I went to Atco this past Tues, and he had difficulty launching despite what looks like a concerted effort to keep up on the track by the officials. Looks like there was a nice rubber base laid down. But still, difficulties persisteted, so it has to be partly or wholey our cars problem. Joe and I are having the exact same issue, so I'm watching what he does and learning (saves me money ;)).

I'm open to changing spring and shocks, think that's easy enough to do and reasonable. If I loose the rear bars, wheel-hop may come back - dont need that noise right now.

I like what Wilson has going on - simple enough and effective.

awsm502
Aug 18th, 11, 9:28 AM
Vince,

Here is my experience for what it's worth on the '72 in my sig. My combo running "stock" suspension and mounting points was with a TH400 and a 550HP solid roller all iron 454, so I pulled to 7000rpm. I've always used M/T stiff wall slicks 29.5 x 10.5. My home track is near sea level, and the DA's run between 500 to 3000ft.

Rear Suspension: Boxed lowers, stock uppers, rubber bushings in stock locations. Stock rear springs with single adj. HAL/QA1 shocks. H&R Anti Roll Bar, pass side air bag.

Front Suspension: Stock 30 year old rubber bushings, Morroso springs, 90/10 drag shocks, no sway bar.

Foot braking at a total weight of 3800lbs my best times were 1.61/11.13/121

Using the trans brake and 5000rpm launch, 3600lbs weight, and optimal tuning my times dropped to 1.50/10.66/123.

I just wanted to point out my suspension was nothing special, and near the end of this combo my bushings were completely wore out. Weight had alot to do with my times, but with the 11.13 I still had a full interior, only fiberglass bumpers and hood. The front suspension was worn out, which helped weight transfer - but you can achieve the same affects with new components if you set it up loose.

I guess what I am saying is, untill I got into the low 10's, high 9's I saw no need to play with the instant center. You can go a long way with stock rear components. I cannot stress the importance of a loose front suspension to help with weight transfer.

Anyway, just a known combo and times for a comparison.

Good Luck.

bracketchev1221
Aug 18th, 11, 9:30 AM
Well, that could be humidity and dew on the track surface. It happens at night in the summer.

GRN69CHV
Aug 18th, 11, 10:47 AM
To clarify it some. They had me run with the street tire cars. I probably should have ran with the trailered cars. 1st run, right off the street, no air in air bag, 2.10 60', 12.08 @ 117.5., 2 nd run, aired up pass bag, 1.88 60' time, should have ran in the 11's but, I had jetted up the 850 to 85/93 , motor was running like crap, way too fat. MPH dropped to 114.5. 3rd run, dropped jets down to 81/88. Motor instantly felt a lot crisper. Has been suggested to try leaving at higher rpm off the brake - to supposedly kill some torque. Tried that, footbraking against the converter to 2000, wheelspin was even worse. On/off the throttle couple times for the first 30-40'. 12.01 @ 118.8.

Key to this is either go on an event day if running DR's or commit to running a tire that is less prone to track conditions. With that said, I am starting to think that you might actually have to run more gear ratio with a DR on a marginal track. Thoughts are to control the wheel speed at the launch so that if the tire does not bite, it doesn't get instantly fried?

mc71454
Aug 18th, 11, 11:03 AM
Vince,

Try this...set the idle to 1100 RPM in gear when you get to the track.

Launch from this idle point without any power braking.

Power braking pre-loads the suspension.:(

This is the way I have been doing it with a streetable type combination since I started driving.


Correct assessment on the Eddys, they are good for slower cars with stock converters


Tom

69-CHVL
Aug 18th, 11, 11:10 AM
Vince,

Here is my experience for what it's worth on the '72 in my sig. My combo running "stock" suspension and mounting points was with a TH400 and a 550HP solid roller all iron 454, so I pulled to 7000rpm. I've always used M/T stiff wall slicks 29.5 x 10.5. My home track is near sea level, and the DA's run between 500 to 3000ft.

Rear Suspension: Boxed lowers, stock uppers, rubber bushings in stock locations. Stock rear springs with single adj. HAL/QA1 shocks. H&R Anti Roll Bar, pass side air bag.

Front Suspension: Stock 30 year old rubber bushings, Morroso springs, 90/10 drag shocks, no sway bar.

Foot braking at a total weight of 3800lbs my best times were 1.61/11.13/121

Using the trans brake and 5000rpm launch, 3600lbs weight, and optimal tuning my times dropped to 1.50/10.66/123.

I just wanted to point out my suspension was nothing special, and near the end of this combo my bushings were completely wore out. Weight had alot to do with my times, but with the 11.13 I still had a full interior, only fiberglass bumpers and hood. The front suspension was worn out, which helped weight transfer - but you can achieve the same affects with new components if you set it up loose.

I guess what I am saying is, untill I got into the low 10's, high 9's I saw no need to play with the instant center. You can go a long way with stock rear components. I cannot stress the importance of a loose front suspension to help with weight transfer.

Anyway, just a known combo and times for a comparison.

Good Luck.

Thanks Keith - great info, pretty much what I was looking for. Not sure how my 4000+ weight plays into all of this.

The ARB - I've read here that these work so good for normal driving that you almost dont even need the front bar installed.

Maybe cheapy drag shocks and put the money where it counts - the ARB and springs?

69-CHVL
Aug 18th, 11, 11:12 AM
Vince,

Try this...set the idle to 1100 RPM in gear when you get to the track.

Launch from this idle point without any power braking.

Power braking pre-loads the suspension.:(

This is the way I have been doing it with a streetable type combination since I started driving.


Correct assessment on the Eddys, they are good for slower cars with stock converters


Tom

Stick car Tom ;)

But I leave with a "fast release method". Side-stepping will surely result in wheel spin everytime.

wilmaya
Aug 18th, 11, 11:21 AM
Vince, Refresh my memory on your springs.

69-CHVL
Aug 18th, 11, 11:31 AM
Vince, Refresh my memory on your springs.

Stock HD BB springs in front and back. There like no front-end movement, but I also have a problem with bottoming out on the front when going over dips in the road at speed - hence my concern about a softer rate spring

GRN69CHV
Aug 18th, 11, 11:54 AM
Stock HD BB springs in front and back. There like no front-end movement, but I also have a problem with bottoming out on the front when going over dips in the road at speed - hence my concern about a softer rate spring



May have solution to the bottuming out. Maybe drive the "SPEED LIMIT" once in a while?

CDN SS
Aug 18th, 11, 12:19 PM
Word of caution here what works on an auto car is normally does not work on a stik car especially a high torque 500 like you have ......I run the ARB .however if your car twisting alot with inconsistant front lift / rear tire patch launch then you need one if you dont have alot of weight transfer it may not help much but nice to have I no longer put my front sway bar on for the street however on fast cornering it needs it everday normal driving no problem .......... again only for what its worth ..........to answer you question .compromise car .........IMO #1 adj shocks ..... play with rear suspension geometry especialy since you dont want to go to soft tall front springs to get more weight transfer ..help it by moving IC back and down your car already a short wheelbase car so even a small geometry change makes a difference ........those SSM bars "may" be at such angle that they working like no hops and unloading your tires after hit ........... I basing all this on stiff bias slicks .....I gave up on the other tires the odd time a radial would hook but not consistant on a stik car in my experience ................yes some pro stik racer have made the radil work but I bet the susp is scienced out for drag racing .......at 5k launch on different track s etc I am at worst of 1.50 to a best of 1.39 @ CB nashvile track of all places !!.....and dont race much ........since I sorted out the geometry /IC prior to that a 1.50 was the best I could do occasiionally

69-CHVL
Aug 18th, 11, 12:54 PM
Appreciate the input Bill, and agree. Do you think the trick springs are a bad idea on the street? I dont corner hard this car at all. I like the shocks, springs, then I can mess with the rear if needbe. Can always disconnect the front sway bar on race day and keep it simple.

wilmaya
Aug 18th, 11, 1:22 PM
Vince, Perhaps can you could borrow some single Adj's for the rear to try out. Any pictures of the stance your has? My car dosen't bottom out and it's not overly soft. When I had the spring's in it that I purchased the car with, it won't budge. They were up there in #'s. I'm running 27" tires in front with the 289# springs and the hang low Hookers without a problem.

Bill, That car of yours is Hot.

Slowpoke70
Aug 18th, 11, 2:32 PM
Maybe try Tom's "shock nut trick" before dropping dough on adjustable front shocks? It should help identify whether the car wants quicker rise rate.

CDN SS
Aug 18th, 11, 3:10 PM
[QUOTE=69-CHVL;3282255]Appreciate the input Bill, and agree. Do you think the trick springs are a bad idea on the street?


HMMM regardless of what you do going to be a challenge to hook that torque monster with a compromise set up .......... assuming this more of a street car ....if it was me I would not change springs first assume they stock hd springs ........I would disconnect the sway bar disconnect the shocks and measure the actual travel you have with those springs .hopefully 4-5" then see what you can do to loosen up the control arm bushings within reason ...........then try a shock that has the travel to allow that max travel your springs will give you ( may need a shock extension) ................whether they are cheapie 90/10 or adj set loose ........try it IMO no need for dbl adj on front in your case .........if you find the springs will travel farther but limited by the stops cut the bump stop and you can even add spacers to you upper ball joints .( they come in 1 /4 " increments) a the ball joint actual 1 /4" will give you almost a 1/2 more travel "if " your spring will extend that far more .......pbly not but easy to do I run 2 1/4 spacers and picked up travel with my 400 lb springs

Rear if you have good stiff shocks now dont change just relook your geometry

69-CHVL
Aug 18th, 11, 3:28 PM
Vince, Perhaps can you could borrow some single Adj's for the rear to try out. Any pictures of the stance your has? My car dosen't bottom out and it's not overly soft. When I had the spring's in it that I purchased the car with, it won't budge. They were up there in #'s. I'm running 27" tires in front with the 289# springs and the hang low Hookers without a problem.

Bill, That car of yours is Hot.

No pics, will try and get some today. I have Hookers 2455, and I do bottom-out on occasion :mad:

Maybe try Tom's "shock nut trick" before dropping dough on adjustable front shocks? It should help identify whether the car wants quicker rise rate.

Tried that, no change

[QUOTE=69-CHVL;3282255]Appreciate the input Bill, and agree. Do you think the trick springs are a bad idea on the street?


HMMM regardless of what you do going to be a challenge to hook that torque monster with a compromise set up .......... assuming this more of a street car ....if it was me I would not change springs first assume they stock hd springs ........I would disconnect the sway bar disconnect the shocks and measure the actual travel you have with those springs .hopefully 4-5" then see what you can do to loosen up the control arm bushings within reason ...........then try a shock that has the travel to allow that max travel your springs will give you ( may need a shock extension) ................whether they are cheapie 90/10 or adj set loose ........try it IMO no need for dbl adj on front in your case .........if you find the springs will travel farther but limited by the stops cut the bump stop and you can even add spacers to you upper ball joints .( they come in 1 /4 " increments) a the ball joint actual 1 /4" will give you almost a 1/2 more travel "if " your spring will extend that far more .......pbly not but easy to do I run 2 1/4 spacers and picked up travel with my 400 lb springs

Rear if you have good stiff shocks now dont change just relook your geometry

Sway bar is gone (for race day). Think the cheapy 90/10 will work for just the occasional (2-3x yr) race? Definitely cheaper to get into them that's for sure. Shocks are "stiff" in the rear - just replacement HG Gabriels. Now as far as the rear gemometery - by drilling holes lower in the UCA mounting brakets, does this attempt to load the rear more??? Not sure If I can get a drill up in there or not. I like the price though :D

CDN SS
Aug 18th, 11, 3:41 PM
Sway bar is gone (for race day). Think the cheapy 90/10 will work for just the occasional (2-3x yr) race? Definitely cheaper to get into them that's for sure. Shocks are "stiff" in the rear - just replacement HG Gabriels. Now as far as the rear gemometery - by drilling holes lower in the UCA mounting brakets, does this attempt to load the rear more??? Not sure If I can get a drill up in there or not. I like the price though :D[/quote]


Yep if you get little to no travel now then cheapie 90/10 fine to start ........I hate them onthe street .. leave the rear for now


Moving the upper locate point ......yes have fun doing that :( tailpipes will have to come off ........... what it will do is move the leverage point IC back farther so you will get better & quicker weight transfer without hurting street perf obvuously the best when in conjunction with loose long travel front susp .........too much and you may get brake hop ....but thats an extreme .............in your case the unkown is those SSM bars ........ may not make sense to redrill the uppers if those lowers are moving the intersect back too ......my experience all those lower contral arm variations SSM , UMI etcetc make for too hard a hit on a high HP stik car at factory ride height or higher .........Do the front simple stuff first .......I wouyld only redrill the uppers if your prepared to reinstall the stock location lower control arm .............

JIM
Aug 18th, 11, 5:30 PM
Vinny Vince,
If my street driven turd can pull the wheels off of the ground an inch or two, then so can yours. Loosen up that front end!
I have Koni adjustable up front, full loose on the extension, Moog 5392 springs, no sway bar either and I run the MT ET Streets.

69-CHVL
Aug 18th, 11, 5:36 PM
Jim you drive around with no front sway bar?

JIM
Aug 18th, 11, 6:05 PM
Yes, all over the place :)
Didn't notice one difference.

69-CHVL
Aug 18th, 11, 6:11 PM
Yes, all over the place :)
Didn't notice one difference.

Cool!

69 Malibu
Aug 18th, 11, 6:16 PM
Same here, sway bar has been off for 10 yrs.

mc71454
Aug 18th, 11, 6:41 PM
Same here, sway bar has been off for 10 yrs.

Same here..

GRN69CHV
Aug 18th, 11, 8:53 PM
Just to clarify, you guys all have frame mount anti-roll bars - correct?

Tom, sending you a PM.

69 Malibu
Aug 18th, 11, 11:32 PM
Just to clarify, you guys all have frame mount anti-roll bars - correct?

Tom, sending you a PM.

I don't but then again I have the slowest car of anyone who responded.

69-CHVL
Aug 18th, 11, 11:33 PM
here's a pic of the stance:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/VGIORDANO_2007/IMG_3237.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/VGIORDANO_2007/IMG_3236.jpg

wilmaya
Aug 19th, 11, 7:48 AM
Vince, car looks good. I see why you are concerned about using softer spring. How tall are you front tires?

69-CHVL
Aug 19th, 11, 10:16 AM
Vince, car looks good. I see why you are concerned about using softer spring. How tall are you front tires?

Front tires are 225/60/15. Probably wouldnt be a bad idea to get slightly taller tire.

CDN SS
Aug 19th, 11, 11:11 AM
Yep frame mount rear anti roll bar ..... fyi if you decide to buy one someone just came out with one that does not hang down like the HRP and others ........I think it goes behind the diff .......I wish my HRP was not so visable but it does work very well

Stance .looks good but same dilema I had .want a nice stock musclecar looking stance that allows clearance for headrs /factory type wheels etc .for street use ...... my stance was similar .......I lowered the rear even more ..cut coils ......... then I had to lower the front to get it the use of the max travel now front 1 " lower in front than rear ....... but I go to all the trouble of changing the front ride height for track day ..........only way I could get my car to hook real good .......... I dont have header clearance issues even with front real low but I do have tire clearance issues with factory wheels etc ........plus street use with soft springs and low in front is horrible for handling and it dont look like a stock 66 that low

If it was me I would work with what you have .car looks good , there may be some magic spring that will give you the header clearance but more travel and that may be a route to explore

Lowering the rear will definitely help but you pbly wont like the stance with front higher

are we having fun yet :)

FYI ..........if you looking at the pics of my car "track" they are old pics rear now sits at least 2" lower not my idea of the stance of a 60's musclecar but it works at track

wilmaya
Aug 19th, 11, 11:43 AM
Front tires are 225/60/15. Probably wouldnt be a bad idea to get slightly taller tire.

Vince, A taller tire would help. My front;s are 27" and the 28" Drag Radial. I'll try to get you a picture of how it looks. I did get more header ground clearance with the raised ext ports. Wasn't a problem before thou.

whitey70ss
Aug 19th, 11, 1:08 PM
As I said before Vinny the only tires I could hook on my car are the MT ET drag stiff sidewall slicks. I did spend a bit of cash on my shocks though, I went with afco DA out back and still have the calvert racing 90/10 in the front. I think this thing would hook in a car wash now! I'm dropping the clutch at 4500 now and no problems, plus I picked up a ton of stability on the top end and when I shut it down. My pops wants to go to test and tune at Beaver Springs Dragway this saturday bring that car up and have some fun.

whitey70ss
Aug 19th, 11, 1:16 PM
Yes, all over the place :)
Didn't notice one difference.

I dont wanna contradict you Jim but I know when I took the swaybar off my car it felt like I was gonna roll over just backing out of the driveway. I did just loosen all the pivot points of my suspension and lube them very well.

Vinny I might have missed this but how much front suspension travel do you have? Have you loosened up the front end at all? Stock a-arm bushings? All this comes into effect, you can do everything to the backend but if your not transfering weight your not gonna hook.

I looked at the pics of your car and the front looks a bit high to me. I cannot get the jack under the front crossmember of my car now without lifting on the fender or bumper. That should give you a idea of how low my car is. I run santhuff front springs and cut my rubber bumpstop down to about a half inch. You ARE going to lose some streetability if you do this but how often are you going fast in parking lots and thru corners? When your on the street your out there looking cool cruisin for chicks LOL.

69-CHVL
Aug 19th, 11, 3:09 PM
vinny i might have missed this but how much front suspension travel do you have? not sure. Have the car on jacks now getting ready to install a t-56 magnum. Will measure everything up once its back down have you loosened up the front end at all? Stock a-arm bushings? havent done any of that, all stock rubber (new). Tightened everything as per stock rebuilding techniques all this comes into effect, you can do everything to the backend but if your not transfering weight your not gonna hook.

I looked at the pics of your car and the front looks a bit high to me. I cannot get the jack under the front crossmember of my car now without lifting on the fender or bumper. That should give you a idea of how low my car is. I run santhuff front springs and cut my rubber bumpstop down to about a half inch. You are going to lose some streetability if you do this but how often are you going fast in parking lots and thru corners? When your on the street your out there looking cool cruisin for chicks lol.

i do have to shove the jack under the crossmember to get in under there, so it is sorta low. I dont corner the car at all cause she really doest like to anyway. I wasnt sure if loosnening the bolts/bushings would creat deflection, but its easy enough to do.

CDN SS
Aug 19th, 11, 3:21 PM
i do have to shove the jack under the crossmember to get in under there, so it is sorta low. I dont corner the car at all cause she really doest like to anyway. I wasnt sure if loosnening the bolts/bushings would creat deflection, but its easy enough to do.


If bushings are new assume stock type rubber bushing not much deflection under normal driving use new lok nuts and back off 1/16th from contact .track day spray with silicone I used to retighten the bushing for street dont bother anymore but I do check that tey have not moved off 1/16th gap ........still curious to know your actual travel with those springs with shock removed and bushing backed off

aukai
Aug 19th, 11, 3:30 PM
Hey Vince, I have just ordered DA Afcos for my car and will be taking off my QA1s, SA front DA rear. I need to find out if the Afcos can do limited street duty. If I have to use the QA1s for the street you pay shipping going I'll pay to get them back. If I can use the Afcos on the street+ or - 1000 miles a year and you like the QA1s we can work out a deal if you want to try them.

whitey70ss
Aug 19th, 11, 3:55 PM
I'm using my afco's on the street with no issue's. I just make sure to tighten them up a bit before any street time.

aukai
Aug 19th, 11, 4:06 PM
Thanks Dan, that is what Ive been doing with the QA1s.

JIM
Aug 19th, 11, 5:39 PM
I dont wanna contradict you Jim but I know when I took the swaybar off my car it felt like I was gonna roll over just backing out of the driveway.

How dare you call me a liar! Who the hell do you think..... J/K:D
Hey I guess everyone's car reacts different and what one guy thinks is a great stable ride, another guy might think it handles like an old wooden wheeled wagon.

BTW, what are the specs on your cam? Pretty good numbers you have there from a 10:1 468. GM iron heads or aftermarket?
Sorry for the hijack Vinny

69-CHVL
Aug 19th, 11, 7:10 PM
As I said before Vinny the only tires I could hook on my car are the MT ET drag stiff sidewall slicks. I did spend a bit of cash on my shocks though, I went with afco DA out back and still have the calvert racing 90/10 in the front. I think this thing would hook in a car wash now! I'm dropping the clutch at 4500 now and no problems, plus I picked up a ton of stability on the top end and when I shut it down. My pops wants to go to test and tune at Beaver Springs Dragway this saturday bring that car up and have some fun.

Dan, what else other than shocks have you done to your chassis?

........still curious to know your actual travel with those springs with shock removed and bushing backed off

Will check as soon as I get the trans installed.

Hey Vince, I have just ordered DA Afcos for my car and will be taking off my QA1s, SA front DA rear. I need to find out if the Afcos can do limited street duty. If I have to use the QA1s for the street you pay shipping going I'll pay to get them back. If I can use the Afcos on the street+ or - 1000 miles a year and you like the QA1s we can work out a deal if you want to try them.

thanks Mike!!

69-CHVL
Aug 19th, 11, 8:47 PM
Back to shocks for a sec.....


For the 2-3x a year at the track, would I be better off getting another set of shocks and just swapping them out for racee day? Something like the Lakewoods/CE 90/10's. My concern about the drag shocks, even good ones, is that they may not be appropriate for the mostly street duty I do, so why drop the $$$$?

JIM
Aug 19th, 11, 10:20 PM
I leave my Koni's in all year round. No complaints.
You really want to be swapping shocks on race day?
It's bad enough we gotta swap tires at the track.

69-CHVL
Aug 20th, 11, 11:22 AM
I leave my Koni's in all year round. No complaints.
You really want to be swapping shocks on race day?
It's bad enough we gotta swap tires at the track.

Looks like some of the adjustment knobs on these shocks would be impossible to get to unless you were running a coil-over. If you have to drop the shock to get to the knob, might as well drop the shock right??

blumont
Aug 20th, 11, 11:54 AM
I have qa-1's on mine Vince and I can adjust the front quite easily if I want. I just use a screwdriver to turn the knob. I fits between the coils although I do have to jack it up some to get at it.

69-CHVL
Aug 20th, 11, 12:31 PM
I have qa-1's on mine Vince and I can adjust the front quite easily if I want. I just use a screwdriver to turn the knob. I fits between the coils although I do have to jack it up some to get at it.

Thanks Jerry, good to know :thumbsup:

3pedals
Aug 20th, 11, 12:52 PM
Vince, look at the calvert 90-10 front shocks. They are supposedly the loosest 90-10 out there, and also high quality for less than $100.
I have QA1 single adjustables(bolt in for a chevelle) and they are too tight even with the adjustment all the way soft. sell them to you cheap - 275 plus the ride, :-)

69-CHVL
Aug 20th, 11, 1:08 PM
Thanks Barret, good to know. The Calvert shock is only 59.00/ea, but looks suspiciously similar to the CE-type units, but if they work, cool!!

Another question for the adjustable shock owners:

If you adjust these shocks back to street driving, do they perform as a regular shock would? If they do, then it would make sense IMO to try them out.

Doug F.
Aug 20th, 11, 2:32 PM
The Calverts aren't "CE" shocks. I have had both and have the Calverts now. I have all Calvert parts on my car is it dead hooks every pass now with the Hoosier radials.

I'd guess the Calverts are the best "cheap" shock out there.

I have pretty much a "drag race suspension" so I couldn't comment on the streetability of the shocks alone. I just drive "normal" and my car is fine.

I would tend to guess if you don't have some suspension travel and some "stored energy" with your current suspension/springs, I doubt just a shock will make a huge difference, but I could be wrong.

aukai
Aug 20th, 11, 4:04 PM
Vince it's been going on 2 years since I adjusted the shocks, but it wasn't a problem. Street feel is up to you, turn the knobs 50/50 or what ever you want.

69-CHVL
Aug 20th, 11, 5:32 PM
Thanks guys. The Calvert shocks are only 59.00/ea!

http://www.calvertracing.com/frontshocks.php

crazydavey
Aug 20th, 11, 5:36 PM
I like the Calvert 90/10's a lot....they allow the front to come up nicely and the front end settles to stock height by the time you hit the 660'.....

wilmaya
Aug 21st, 11, 8:24 AM
here's a pic of the stance:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/VGIORDANO_2007/IMG_3237.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/VGIORDANO_2007/IMG_3236.jpg

Vince, Here's some pictures of my stance and height with the 289# springs and 27" front tires. I can get a 3.5 ton std. floor jack and a 2x2 for extra lifting height if needed. Rear std. duty springs and 28" tires. I wish it could be 1/2 lower but it works for street and the few times I go to the track.

wilmaya
Aug 21st, 11, 8:27 AM
As Davey said the Calvert's are a better option the the Comp/Lakewoods.

gotago
Aug 21st, 11, 10:40 AM
Vince, I had/have the same problem with the DRs. With the Jegsters, airbags, and disconnected front sway bar the best I have done is a 1.62. I went to bias ply slicks as nothing I did would get the DRs to hook at launch when I let out the clutch. I won't run on the street without the front sway bar because my car rolls a lot on the turns without it. Here is a pic at launch:
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp264/gotago396/1123016990_4DowA-L.jpg
I'm reading this thread right along with you as I need to get more out of mine too!

GRN69CHV
Aug 21st, 11, 11:05 AM
I may be completely out to lunch, but here goes. As far as drag radials, I am convinced on a higher HP car, adding an air bag to control body twist is detrimental. I think the stiff design of a drag radial requires more compliance in the suspension. JMHO, first addition to a drag radial car should be a frame attached ARB. I have tried it without, and can tell you, it will be the next chassis mod. Bias tire with soft sidewall? Different animal all together.

69-CHVL
Aug 21st, 11, 11:33 AM
I had ET Street bias, tried the MT DR's, and now the Hooiser DR's. Havent had a chance to really try the Hoosiers yet. My best 60 so far was with the MT DR's, 1.75. As I've mentioned in other threads, the bias tires for whatever reason are just too dangerous for me to use - car sways all over the place with less that 16psi. If I could air them down to 12-15psi, I'm sure it would hook, but it will certainly result in loosing control I'm sure of it. After I wear these Hooisers out, I'll try a set of stiff-wall slicks perhaps on a larger wheel (running 15x8 4.75 bs).

Do you guys think the front of my car needs to be raised a bit - taller spring?

Right now, thinking Calverts, loosen the bushings, remove sway bar. Leave the rear alone for now as I have HD springs and shocks. After that, will look into the slicks again. I like the radial slicks, but didnt see anything that was in the 28" range, hence my decision to go with the Hoosier DR, which has been said to resemble a slick.

I would love to get into the 1.6 range consistenly, but 1.5's would be ideal!

69-CHVL
Aug 21st, 11, 11:41 AM
Vince, I had/have the same problem with the DRs. With the Jegsters, airbags, and disconnected front sway bar the best I have done is a 1.62. I went to bias ply slicks as nothing I did would get the DRs to hook at launch when I let out the clutch. I won't run on the street without the front sway bar because my car rolls a lot on the turns without it. Here is a pic at launch:

I'm reading this thread right along with you as I need to get more out of mine too!

So Mark, 1.6 with the DR's or the slicks? I'll settle out of court for 1.6's right now :D

gotago
Aug 21st, 11, 11:49 AM
So Mark, 1.6 with the DR's or the slicks? I'll settle out of court for 1.6's right now :D
Slicks. When I built the current motor, the DRs wouldn't hook, first hit to the tires and they were gone no matter if I launched soft or hard. The slicks will recover a lot better. When I ran the DRs, I was running 373s, now 456s with the slicks, glad I have an OD:)Here's a pic of the car with the track tires, it does sit higher in the front with them than with the street tires. I was concerned about the handling too as the fronts are VW radials and the rears are bias ply but no issues at 12psi.
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp264/gotago396/IMG_5128.jpg

whitey70ss
Aug 21st, 11, 2:16 PM
[QUOTE=69-CHVL;3283370]Dan, what else other than shocks have you done to your chassis?

I have a BMR bolt-on ARB. I use QA1 2 1/2" coil over shocks in the stock position, eddy upper and lower control arms. Thats about it.

DougA
Aug 21st, 11, 2:16 PM
Vince,if do ever try a slick,make sure it is a stiff sidewall slick.They're designed for big heavy cars like ours.Lots more stability,have run mine down to 10psi,no problem.

crazydavey
Aug 21st, 11, 2:25 PM
I had ET Street bias, tried the MT DR's, and now the Hooiser DR's. Havent had a chance to really try the Hoosiers yet. My best 60 so far was with the MT DR's, 1.75. As I've mentioned in other threads, the bias tires for whatever reason are just too dangerous for me to use - car sways all over the place with less that 16psi. If I could air them down to 12-15psi, I'm sure it would hook, but it will certainly result in loosing control I'm sure of it. After I wear these Hooisers out, I'll try a set of stiff-wall slicks perhaps on a larger wheel (running 15x8 4.75 bs).

Do you guys think the front of my car needs to be raised a bit - taller spring?

Right now, thinking Calverts, loosen the bushings, remove sway bar. Leave the rear alone for now as I have HD springs and shocks. After that, will look into the slicks again. I like the radial slicks, but didnt see anything that was in the 28" range, hence my decision to go with the Hoosier DR, which has been said to resemble a slick.

I would love to get into the 1.6 range consistenly, but 1.5's would be ideal!

Vince if you go to the bias slicks I would suggest the 28x10.5 Hoosiers (18155), they are a stiff sidewall with a little harder compound. I would also suggest running tubes to stiffen them some more, my car is rock solid on that combo (I run 13 1/2 to 14 lbs). If it still moves around to the point of making you uncomfortable there is somethng wrong with the suspension setup....JMO

DougA
Aug 21st, 11, 3:18 PM
Vince if you go to the bias slicks I would suggest the 28x10.5 Hoosiers (18155), they are a stiff sidewall with a little harder compound. I would also suggest running tubes to stiffen them some more, my car is rock solid on that combo (I run 13 1/2 to 14 lbs). If it still moves around to the point of making you uncomfortable there is somethng wrong with the suspension setup....JMO

Same tire I'm using,Davey.:thumbsup:
No tubes,though.

69-CHVL
Aug 21st, 11, 3:33 PM
Great info, as always - thanks guys. Got my work cut-out for me. Gotta finish the T-56 install I'm doing, then we will play with the suspension a bit. Need to get 500 miles on this trans/clutch before I can flog it.

JIM
Aug 21st, 11, 5:01 PM
Gotta finish the T-56 install I'm doing,

What the ^%#* ??? Where did that come from?
Where did the TKO go?

peterskin
Aug 21st, 11, 5:34 PM
What the ^%#* ??? Where did that come from?
Where did the TKO go?

l:)...c'mon, this is Vince...why are u surprised!:D

Vince, I hope you get your suspension worked out!

dirtlips408
Aug 21st, 11, 5:42 PM
What T-56 did you go with Vince??

69-CHVL
Aug 21st, 11, 6:06 PM
What the ^%#* ??? Where did that come from?
Where did the TKO go?

LOL!

I finally got sick and tired of the huge drop from 4th-5th gear - couldnt take it anymore. Sold the TKO/bell/clutch/shaft in one day!

This is the T-56 Magnum, .63 OD

GRN69CHV
Aug 21st, 11, 8:19 PM
LOL!

I finally got sick and tired of the huge drop from 4th-5th gear - couldnt take it anymore. Sold the TKO/bell/clutch/shaft in one day!

This is the T-56 Magnum, .63 OD

And -------the flywheel?

JIM
Aug 22nd, 11, 8:04 AM
l:)...c'mon, this is Vince...why are u surprised!:D



Good point.

LOL!

I finally got sick and tired of the huge drop from 4th-5th gear - couldnt take it anymore. Sold the TKO/bell/clutch/shaft in one day!

This is the T-56 Magnum, .63 OD

When did all of this happen. I can't keep up with you! Is this a direct bolt-in or is it requiring major surgery? What are the gear rations?

69-CHVL
Aug 22nd, 11, 8:38 AM
Good point.



When did all of this happen. I can't keep up with you! Is this a direct bolt-in or is it requiring major surgery? What are the gear rations?

Need a special bell, driveshaft shortened. Yeah, a little more metal outta the floor, but I dont care, its been pre-opened for the TKO. 700ft/lb rating too:

t-56 - 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.800 .63
tko--- 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00.............64

JIM
Aug 22nd, 11, 8:49 AM
ETA for a road test?

69-CHVL
Aug 22nd, 11, 9:08 AM
ETA for a road test?

Jim, hopefully a couple of weeks. Trans is due on Fri, going to try and install on Sat/Sun. Need to order a driveshaft after, so another week.

This trans is suppose to be the sh!t in terms of shift quality and stoutness. We shall see.

GRN69CHV
Aug 22nd, 11, 9:30 AM
I'd like to see that T56 mated to some 4.33 gears.

69-CHVL
Aug 22nd, 11, 9:35 AM
Maybe 4:56 w/a 29-30" slick??

JIM
Aug 22nd, 11, 9:51 AM
Maybe 4:56 w/a 29-30" slick??

Not unless you want to spin the crap out of that motor at the dragstrip. You won't be shifting into 5th at the strip and you will be winding the crap out of it in 4th with 4.56:1. Go 4.30:1 tops or 4.10:1
BTW...pet peeve of mine. :D You'd have 4.56:1 gears not 4:56 gears.
I hate when guys write that.:angry: It is a ratio. You don't have a "4 to 56" gear ratio, you have a "4.56 to 1" ratio.
They are not 3:08's
They are not 3:73's
They are not 4:10's
I see it every day on this site. It's math, it's a ratio. Get it right.
AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Sorry I took that out on you Vince. But it was the straw that broke the camel's back. :D Sorry. You can punch me the next time you see me if you want to.

69-CHVL
Aug 22nd, 11, 9:52 AM
Damn!

JIM
Aug 22nd, 11, 10:04 AM
I know. Totally uncalled for but I just snapped. It was the culmination of 1000 posts on this site where guys ask about "3:73" gears. Drives me nuts. I couldn't take it anymore. Imagine if the ratio was actually 3:73. The car would need a 200mph running start to get going and have a top speed of about 12000 mph.

dirtlips408
Aug 22nd, 11, 1:42 PM
That will be a killer trans Vince! Have fun with it.

3pedals
Aug 22nd, 11, 11:17 PM
the 2.66 first gear is not going to help your quest for fast 60ft times, if you still can, get the 2.97 first gear set!

Bob West
Aug 22nd, 11, 11:39 PM
Not unless you want to spin the crap out of that motor at the dragstrip. You won't be shifting into 5th at the strip and you will be winding the crap out of it in 4th with 4.56:1. Go 4.30:1 tops or 4.10:1
BTW...pet peeve of mine. :D You'd have 4.56:1 gears not 4:56 gears.
I hate when guys write that.:angry: It is a ratio. You don't have a "4 to 56" gear ratio, you have a "4.56 to 1" ratio.
They are not 3:08's
They are not 3:73's
They are not 4:10's
I see it every day on this site. It's math, it's a ratio. Get it right.
AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Sorry I took that out on you Vince. But it was the straw that broke the camel's back. :D Sorry. You can punch me the next time you see me if you want to.

If you had an automatic you wouldnt be so sensitive Jiml:)

71454Chevelle
Aug 23rd, 11, 5:46 AM
I'd like to see that T56 mated to some 4.33 gears.

4.30's work pretty good with the T-56. :yes:

I have to admit, I think I was the bad influence on Vince and helped him with his transmission decsion. ;)

JIM
Aug 23rd, 11, 8:48 AM
If you had an automatic you wouldnt be so sensitive Jiml:)

True.

69-CHVL
Aug 23rd, 11, 9:20 AM
4.30's work pretty good with the T-56. :yes:

I have to admit, I think I was the bad influence on Vince and helped him with his transmission decsion. ;)

You certainly didnt help!!!!