My BB heads are getting machined and soon I will know their(702) CC's and will need to make decissions on decking the block and shaving the heads to get proper quench and compression.

My questin is what options do I have in the headgasket catagory? So far this is what I have found out:

Fel Pro 1017-1 .041 thick 4.540 Dia=10.9 CC
" " 1037 .039 " 4.370 " = 10.5 CC
" " 1047 .039 " 4.540 " = 11.3 CC
" " 1057 .041 " 4.630 " = 11.3 CC

Are there shim gaskets available for BB like the SB? I would prefer to use a thin shim gasket which would leave me with a option to lower compression later on with a .041 thick gasket if I run into problems.

Thanks Bill

Yopu can get a .022 steel shim from Chevy which is what I'll probably use on the 454 I'm building

SoCalRat,

Do you have a GM pn for the .022 gasket? I hate going to the GM counter and asking for something I have no application or pn for.

Also, I see Wally and Mike Feudo don't like them or have had problems with them. What's the word on this, are they trouble? I see Pat Kelley uses them on his SB with copper gasket sealer and small increments on the torque sequence. I will have fresh cut heads and deck.

Are many of you running them?

Thanks Bill

PN 14015351. It is for 4.250 bore and iron heads only. Mark IV use only. This is from GMPP catalog.

------------------
Pat Kelley
66 El Camino, daily driver
67 El Camino, STRIP/street (12.08, 113mph, 7.500@92.14 1/8 mile) 355 powered
Pat's Page (Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator, car specs, Spark plug reading info) (http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/)

Pat,

I know the answer may be obvious but, will they have the .060 oversize I will need for that 4.250 application? (4.310)

Thanks Bill

Mr. Gasket also sells a steel shim head gasket and I am pretty sure the compressed thickness is .018. I just looked up the bore on the Steel shim MK4/LS6 head gasket in the Scoggin Dickey parts catalog and it list the bore being 4.370.

I am installing some 702's on my 454 and will also be going the steel shim route to bump the compression up.

------------------
Deon Knecht
72 Malibu 350 that has been bored out to 4.251 on a 4" stroke.

<A HREF="http://home.sc.rr.com/deon" TARGET=_blank>
My Website Last updated on 10/28/2002 </A>

I have no idea. I don't know BBs at all. I just looked it up in the catalog. The gasket Deon mentioned, might be the same one. In that case it should work.

I used GM steel shim gaskets on my 427, sprayed with silver paint before install, torqued in small increments and have no issues. I needed all the squeeze that I could get! I was advised that to seal correctly the head and block need to be perfectly flat and clean.

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"SSuper Dave" Palmer
A.C.E.S. #1483
Team Chevelle #32 Gold
1968 Chevelle 427/390hp, 700R4, 3.31 12 bolt
1988 Trans Am, runs when nothing else will.
1970 El Camino, licensed and insured for the first time since 1988, drove it down the block the other day, bodywork is continuing.

One trick somebody posted somewhere was to take a fine cut long bastard file and hand dress the decks until you get them smoother then stock. The guy said to just make sure that you file lightly and across two bolt holes at a time to ensure you keep the deck still flat and NOT wave it by doing this.

I am going to try it on my next rebuild when I too will more then likely run shims.

I have used spray-can Aluminum paint, Spray-can AND Dauber bottle Copper-Kote as well as plain old "Indianhead" shellac gasket cement in the little shoe-polish bottle with the dauber and all have worked. Heck, one guy even posted using "Gun Grease"!! He, He!! Not for me...

I do however always sneak up on the torque limit in many steps as well as do the torque thing a couple more times after starting my engine and heating it at least twice! NO problems whatsoever...

Hope this helps and the file thing really seems like a real winner to me if done properly... pdq67

My problems with steel shim gaskets were always with 13to1 or higher compression race motors that I am sure detonated now and then. For a lot of years the only head gasket you could get for a BB was a steel shim. They worked well on street motors so I wouldn't be afraid to try them on one now just remember to retorque the heads.



[This message has been edited by Mike Feudo (edited 11-28-2002).]

Mike,

Sorry, I didn't mean to misquote you on the headgasket thing. I had just remembered seeing something you said about "lack of luck" when I did a search.

I will probably go wih the shim gasket, however, I am waiting to see how my heads come out CC wise.

My idea is to get the quench right with the shim gasket, and then if I run into problems, I can have the option of dropping the compression down a little with a thicker gasket later on if things don't work out.

At this time I am aiming at about 10.5 to 1 with the 2399 TRW's and closed chamber 702's with the 288/296 Ultradyne hydaulic cam. I do want to run on pump gas with no additives. I can't wait for this thing to come together.

Thanks Bill

Bill, I know what you mean about getting excited....Sounds like in might be ready by Xmas? A new rat under the tree has got to be on everyone list! That thing will be wild with the 4 speed and the top DOWN! Craig

Bill, I just got my BB heads back from performance valve job, valves, guides, 120 lb springs, and mild porting. I looked at the FP's that I took off compared with alternative head gaskets. Most composition head gaskets are all in the .035 to .045 thickness, dead soft copper ones are around .022 to .028, and the steel shim gaskets are in the .017 to .020 range.

I calculated for a 4.310 bore the FP .041 would be about 9.8 cc volume while the steel shim gaskets, if they compressed to .018 would come in with about 4.3 cc volume. All other factors being equal the 5 cc difference equates to about .3 in static compression. I'm looking to bring mine up so I'm going with the Mr Gasket steel shim gaskets.

My engine builder says of all the engines that he has built that had steel shim gaskets, only a couple had leaks. They were small seepage coolant leaks; and he uses some stuff, I think from Red Line, called ceramic seal. You put it in, run the engine hot, shut it off, then let it cool down, then drain all the coolant, let it set up overnight, then refill with fresh coolant next morning and the leaks are cured.

Also there was an article in November 2002 Hot Rod magazine page 86 showing all the correct Permatex sealing applications. They mention for steel head gaskets to use Hylomar Aerosol. I couldn't find any on the shelves at local Car Craft but I asked and they looked it up and ordered it for me - next day. So I plan to use the Hylomar on my steel hd gaskets when I'm ready to re-assemble in the next week or so.

Oh, one word of caution with head gaskets; make sure you measure, or know your deck height and valve clearance. You need to have sufficient piston to head and valve clearance to use thinner gaskets. The devil's in the details.

Good luck; hope this helps.... Terry.

Terry,

Thanks for the heads up on the Hylmar and the valve to piston clearence.

Sounds like you are ahead of me on the assemble. The only thing I have done so far is to bring my heads in for the larger valves, unschrouding, etc. I am just taking the engine apart now, got the pistons out yesterday.

What compression are you aiming for? Like I said, I am going for the 10.5: 1 and I figure, using Pat's compression calculator, I can drop that down to 10.1 : 1 with going from a .022 to a .041 gasket if I run into problems later on with the gas.

Thanks again Bill

Mr. Gasket also sells a steel shim head gasket and I am pretty sure the compressed thickness is .018. I just looked up the bore on the Steel shim MK4/LS6 head gasket in the Scoggin Dickey parts catalog and it list the bore being 4.370.

I am installing some 702's on my 454 and will also be going the steel shim route to bump the compression up.

------------------
Deon Knecht
72 Malibu 350 that has been bored out to 4.251 on a 4" stroke.

<A HREF="http://home.sc.rr.com/deon" TARGET=_blank>
My Website Last updated on 10/28/2002 </A>
I just tried my Mr. Gasket 1131 shim head gaskets on my .060 454 4.310 bore block and they are in the bore. The gaskets measured 4.310 or less inside measurement. Another thing I don't like about the Mr. G's is that the dowel holes do not line up correctly. This is not causing my problems though as they are still in the bore with dowels removed. I was wondering about using the GM 14015351 gaskets. Reading this reply above I found in the search, I assume that the GM gasket will fit a 4.310 bore? Please advise me if this is correct as I will order the GM ones in the morning, plus I can go to parallel cooling also. Thanks for reading.
Regards, Jeff