has anybody had experience with these PAW 427/454 short or long block kits they sell. the long blocks i belive are 2300.00. i was wandering becuase i am wanting to build a big block and i wanted to get the best deal for the money. i really dont want a 454 because to many people have them. i was thinking about the 427. or should i just get a big block out of a truck, and get a complete rebuild kit for like 500.00 and rebuild it that way. either way i dont mind building my own motor.

any help is great.


aaron

anybody??

aaron

Aaron, PAW has been around for along time. Have never ordered anything from them and know of no one that has but I think their reputation is good. You should be able to buy one of their rebuild kits for an engine that you find. You would still have to have all the necessary machine work to be done so think it would be alot easier to get their 2300. long block. Aaron, what is the intended use for your engine, street or race or combination. How much money do you want to spend and go from there. Goodluck! Its always fun for me to build my own engine and see the end sucessful product from the fruits of my labor! :D

The 454 is more common for a reason..the same reason the 350 is. They made tons of them. The 427 was only around for a few years and just like the 327 they are great motors. But the 454 and 350's with so many more being made have more piston choices and options that the motors of lesser numbers don't. The 454 has more cubes and can make some serious power, the differences aren't huge but they are their. I don't know you budget but I almsot went the PAW route and i have only heard good things about them since

If you get a big block,and need parts to rebuild it..go here www.competitionproducts.com (http://www.competitionproducts.com)
Get a catalog from them..more there than on the website..

There's no subsitute for cubic inches!By the time you would add up machine work and parts you might come out cheaper ordering the long block,I would make sure you check all the clearances and get the compression you want.If it's going to be performance oriented you might want to order the short block so you can get the heads you want or call them to see what they offer.

Oh, I don't know. I'll run right alongside most street 454s. To 'even up the score' some you build the 427 for a bit higher rpm range and give it a bit more gear multiplication. Don't be afraid of pushing it past 6500. If it's built right, it'll be fine.

427 cranks are around $250.00. Any good 454 block will do. I'd opt for the slightly more expensive SRP slugs ( forged lighweight slugs are better at the upper end, by far). Rods, well, I'm still using 30 yr old L88 rods. Stuff a nice smallish solid cam in it and you're off to the races.

I just don't know if I would be comfortable using one of their 427 shortblocks given the fact that to beat 454s, you'll need the mid- to upper-6000 range to do it. The forces on the reciprocating assembly are greatly magnified from a stout 454 pulling maybe 5500-5800 revs and a stout 427 being shifted at 6700.

So that's the advice I have to offer. You can build a 427 to eat 454s. I did it. BUT, you best build a very correctly done motor, because you'll be stressing it a bit more than its torquier big brother. AND, it will want a bit more gear than it's big brother.

I tore up the last iteration of the 427L88 pretty bad, probably by overrevving it some. So I would recommend you keep it under 7000. 7500 gets kinda hard on bearings and such. :eek: :rolleyes:

Short answer is, I'd be more inclined to buy a 454 from them, with 10:1 compression and my cam to keep revs under 5500. I don't think I would buy a 6500 rpm + 427 from them. That I'd find a good machinist for, and start collecting parts. It may end up being **slightly** more than the crate, but I think you'll have a better motor for it. Again, the key is to find a great machinist to get all your parts machined right and ready to assemble. Nothing much trick is required. Just a good stout 10.5:1 compression ratio, balanced and properly clearanced recip assembly, and a nice hot cam. The only things we did were to tighten up the rod side clearnace to .015" to keep the oil on the bearings, which caused me to go with oil bleed lifters to ensure an oil supply for the cam. Other than that, its a tight clearanced street 427 that buzzes to 7000 too easy.

Not better than a 454 mind you. A bit narlier though, and will overtake the big guy only when pushed HARD! If you're into the smooth idling big low end torque deal, the 4.0" stroke is the ticket. ( actually 4.25" but that's pushing the budget up by 1/3 as well).

i really dont want a 454 because to many people have them. i was thinking about the 427. I think the PAW "427" are using 454 blocks with 396/427 cranks, and I doubt you would find a 'true" 427 block from them. So it shouldn't make a difference if "too" many people have them. So many people have them because they are usually a better motor (for the price!) for most instances (street driving, where high RPM won't usually be seen often, etc).

You could built the 454 and tell people its a 427...

As Gene was saying, you can build a 427 to beat a 454, but you have to build a more radical motor (more money too). You can also build a 454 to rev like a 427, but it will be pricey...

I think one of the main benefits of PAW, is I don't think there is a core charge, so you save some time and money there... But shipping it out from California, that might even out the cost of finding a local engine...

the long blocks i belive are
2300.00.I think its the short blocks around $2300... the long blocks are more like $2800+... Then there's balancing and a few other options you might want...


I am debating the 427/454/496 engine myself, and I am leaning toward the 427 for several reasons:
1) Less torque: yeah, sounds funny, but I am tired of breaking parts and this is more of a cruiser. Plus the 427 will still generate alot of torque anyway (just not as much as a longer stroke motor)
2) better redline. When I do get on it, I love to hear the engine scream (Hmmm, maybe THATS why I break parts?). I have had my 396 up well over 6500 many times, and up to 7000 a few (and a few missed-shifts :eek: )
3) I have a "Std/Std" 396/427 cross-drilled steel crank just begging to go into something...
4) I have a newer (700 miles?) Centerforce neutral balance flywheel.
5) I have a 454 block (with cast crank)...

The only downside is a lack of piston choices for the 427 (without getting expensive)...
If I didn't have that crank, I probably wouldn't even consider it...

thanks alot guys.

it will be a street motor and be daily driven. and taken to the track twice a month probably. if not less.

i might just get a 454 out of the junk yard and put in new pistons, rings bearings and all, maybe like 11:1 cr or somthing, and then get some afr heads and an edelbrock 2*4 intake w 2 450-500cfm carbs. also around a 500ish lift cam.

i want about 500hp give or take a few. but the big thing is torque.
well for my budget i dont really want to spend an arm and a leg on a motor, that i would have to rebuild anyways.thats why i thought about the long block from PAW. im looking at spending about 5500-6000.

any other comments are great.

aaron

If you're going with lightweight rods, you might consider the KB hypers. I went with the SRPs due to rpms AND the fact that I would have had to add weight to the old 6223 crank we used to balance with hyper slugs ( and the heavier 7/16" L88 rods). So considering it might have been another $150 to balance the $200 difference between SRP and hypers wasn't that great.

Oh, and if you go 427, don't even worry about a 427 block. You'll be competing with "gotta spend" Corvette guys for one of those. Any GenIV 454 block will do.

Good plan. Find a nice boneyard 454 out of an RV with the 049 or 781 head castings. You can make it a 427 by simply adding a 6223 crank from competitionproducts ( $250), and new pistons.

Even with a decent solid cam and intake ports that many consider too large, my 427 has all the torque of my parents old Eldo with 500ci. Least'n as measured by my azzdyno! No shortage of torque down low at all. And, you should scratch out a bit bitter mpg with the smaller rat. Something to consider for a daily. The local ignition guy was getting 16-17 mpg through a 400HP 427 tripower in a Biscayne wagon. Cool man!

For a pure street car, I think the 427 is an excellent choice as well. Here we are comparing potential HP, etc, but for a good daily driver that's somewhat kind on fuel but still honks, a 427 with small port heads and the UD/LUN 280/88 hyd cam would be a dandy!

thanks man..

just gotta tell ya this.. my uncle had a 69 L-88 375hp vette w. tri-power, 4spd, sold it about 10 years ago. it was soo awesome. check out my 71chevelle site, i got a pic of it on there.

im actually going to the yard this weekend, ill see wut i can find, and if i score anything good ill let ya'll know. now.. i just needa find a job.(stupid auto parts stores dont hire 16 y/o's.. grr)

aaron

ah man, where my sig go???

aaron

I bought a 350 +.060" kit from PAW back in the late 80's. Everything fit together and ran real good, but a cylinder wall cracked after about 30k miles of driving and a fair amount of racing. It was a low 13 sec car.

For what its worth . . .

Aaron, my 1965-1972 Chilton Auto Repair Manuel list the big tri-power 427 at 435hp. I do know that hp figure varies depending on what publication your looking at! graemlins/waving.gif

really 435hp? WOW!! he had told me it was the 375hp, thats awesome to know that. my uncles brother bought it from the 1st owner, so my uncle was 3rd owner for about 10 years. it used to beable to break tires loose into 4th gear. my uncle said after he put a cam, and took the tri-power off and put a 850 holley on it, it lifted the font end off the ground. hehe, and it was the only time he had done it.

aaron

Aaron, only the 396 4 bolt made 375hp and that engine was not used in a Vette. In 65' the 396 Vette engine was rated at 425hp. An L-88 is a 427 with at least 425 and I've seen aluminum headed ones rated at 430hp from the factory! :cool:

oh mam, i need to track down that vette my uncle had, i want it now. even if i dont drive it ( because a 69 stingay w/ a 16 y/o= super high insurance). man i wish he never sold it.

aaron

he had told me it was the 375hp, thats awesome to know that. my uncles brother bought it
from the 1st owner, so my uncle was 3rd owner for about 10 years. it used to beable to break tires loose into 4th
gear. my uncle said after he put a cam, and took the tri-power off and put a 850 holley on it, it lifted the font end off
the ground. hehe, and it was the only time he had done it.So,

First, the L88 was "rated" at 430 HP, but was really more like 550-600HP!!!


The 69 427 tri-power had two ratings, 400 HP for the oval port head version and 435 HP for the Rectangular port version...

An L-88 is a 427 with at least 425 and I've seen aluminum headed ones rated at 430hp from the
factory! The L88 was "rated" at 430 HP...

The L88 was supposedly rated low, so that the uninformed buyer coming off the street and looking for the biggest engine would NOT choose the L88 (430HP versus the 3X2 Rect 427 at 435HP (L71?))... That lower HP "rating" and the steep additional price tag (I forget, but didn't the L88 add around $1500 to the ~$4500 Vette price) detered the general public from buying the L88, unless they were in the know... The L88 was designed for road racing and I don't think a radio or even a heater was available with the L88... The L88 featured a single 4-barrel carb, not trips (although I suppose they could have been added later...


it will be a street motor and be daily driven. and taken to the track twice a month probably. if not less.

i might just get a 454 out of the junk yard and put in new pistons, rings bearings and all, maybe like 11:1 cr or
somthing, and then get some afr heads and an edelbrock 2*4 intake w 2 450-500cfm carbs. also around a 500ish lift
cam.

i want about 500hp give or take a few. but the big thing is torque.
well for my budget i dont really want to spend an arm and a leg on a motor, that i would have to rebuild anyways.thats
why i thought about the long block from PAW. im looking at spending about 5500-6000. I'd rethink the 11:1 if you want a streetable/dail-driver motor (using pump gas)...You'll probably have to run race gas...

AFR heads, but with an Edelbrock 2X4 intake... Cool, but a single 4-barrel will make a little more power, AND be easier to tune. 450-500 cfm carbs would be too small for performance (Edelbrock suggests 600 cfm carbs.).

I run the Edelbrock 2X4 with the dual 600 carbs on my "little" 396, and no problems. I know I could make more power with a single carb, but I wanted the 2X4 look (love to have the 3X2, but a little too pricey for my budget)...

Like Gene said, there will still be lots of torque with a 427 combo, just slightly less than a 454. Probably not enough of a difference for a seat-of-your-pants comparison though, unless you could truly do back-to-back runs...

thanks for your help guys. i like the look and feel of the 2*4's thats why i picked them, but the trip is just awesome as well. but again out of my price range. if worse comes to worse, ill just get a 850dp, and an air gap intake.

now, i think i just might try to get a 454 or anyother bb out of a junk yard. some yards around here have sales like any motor 50.00 (one 2 months ago) and man i should of went. but there will be more. also 1 is anything 1.00, but its 20.00 to get in.

again thanks for the help guys.

aaron