I wasn't really sure where to post this so feel free to move it to where it needs to be


So I have a really tough decision that i'm trying to make but could use some outside input. I recently (last August) separated from the military for school under the post 9/11 Gi Bill. However recently president Obama changed the Gi Bill that will take affect August 2011 to stop covering some of the stuff that we were promised. I am currently at Embry Riddle in Daytona Beach Fl for Aeronautical Engineering. I am currently a freshman/sophomore in the degree and have another 6 semesters or so before I get a degree. I am also a flight student trying to get my flight ratings and this is what will be lost on August 31st if the changes stand.

I have a friend who works for a company doing UAV ground control systems maintenance and he's been trying to get me to go work for the same company for quite some time now. His boss is extremely interested in my working for the company with my background/friends recommendation. This position is located in Clovis New Mexico and the pay is pretty good (around 65,000 ish).

I currently hold a secret security clearance from my active duty time which I found out tonight expires two years from date of separation unless used. This job requires a higher security clearance that the company will pay for and i'm sure I could get.

I also have about 80 credits total just not very many in the aeronautical engineering degree area.

I'm currently staying afloat but just barely since i'm making very little money doing work for the school out here.

I could use any thoughts/suggestions/opinions as to what I should do

how hard is it to get a job in Aeronautical Engineering? Remember that a degree will reward you with 50% more pay on the average in the long run. School is tough and unrewarding initially but unless you are a genius, and plan to be an employee, then a degree will pay out way better in the long run, plus with the GI bill it's free for now.

Stick it out and get the degree.

Can you take the job in New Mexico and also continue your education at the same time ? I know it would be demanding but would pay off bigtime later .Your new employer may even help pay some of the costs of further edu.

Can you take the job in New Mexico and also continue your education at the same time ? I know it would be demanding but would pay off bigtime later .Your new employer may even help pay some of the costs of further edu.

x2, my thought exactly. If you aren't willing/able to do BOTH, then do only the degree. But you'll really have to apply yourself to get it done if you take the job too - and you'll want to get it done as quickly as possible IMO.

I was in near the same position as you in '96. Just getting out of the military and staring a 60K/year job in the face or 5 straight years of ramen noodles and a new wife in the college of engineering.

It depends on you what you want....do you "want" to be an Engineer? If so it's an easy decision. If not, a good job leveraging your skills and experience can be a great starting point. Be warned though.....jobs in general are temporary; an engineering degree is something that no one can take away. You can always get a job but you might not ever have the opportunity to get an engineering degree.

P.S.....I learned to fly in clovis and spent quite a bit of time there when a buddy was stationed at Cannon. Make sure you visit that town and are satisfied with it before committing to anything.

Bill

If I were to take the job I would continue school although it would be in a different degree program since I can't do Aerospace Engineering out there. Starting salary for Aerospace Engineers with degrees is about 55K average. My biggest fear is I don't take the job and can't finish my degree before I run out of military benefits and then what do I do?

Bill,

I have not been to clovis yet but would visit and see the job before I took it. I just moved from Rapid City South Dakota which is probably about the same size as clovis. I don't know if I want to be an engineer per se but I was thinking a test pilot position would be cool or getting into aircraft accident investigation would be something id like. How expensive was flight training out in Clovis? I have my privates and am working on my multi add-on and instrument here. If the changes happen to the Gi Bill then I will loose my funding and will pay for my commercial out of pocket. How was clovis?

Well....Clovis can be a tough town. It's an economically depressed eastern New Mexico town. No offense to anyone on here but without the base it would more than likely fail as a town. The Air Force guys consider it a "Hardship" being stationed there. That said, the town is full of lots of retired Air Force guys that are cool to hang out with. Low cost of living.

I got my private there at a Part 141 school and it was about $3500 in 2001. Things have gotten more expensive for sure but the cost of rent, insurance, airplanes and instruction is extremely low in Eastern NM. Never lost a training day due to weather and I got the ticket in the minimum time due to growing up flying.

In '96 to '01 my GI bill was $321 a month so it did not go far at Texas Tech. I used my skills from the Navy and landed a part time machinist apprentice job through school. That and student loans got me through.

Does the GI bill still cover you for 36 "academic" months? If so thats about 4 years of college and the rest you can get with student loans. Best investment I ever made. I wouldn't put too much stock in "starting" salaries and trying to comapare them to any other. They are only a starting point based on your ability and the quality of the employer.

Just for reference and sorry if this comes off wrong; in jan 2002 my starting salary as an ME was $51k. Within 3 years I was at $67 and now 10 years out of school I'm well over that. I had a professor tell me that an Engineer's salary doubles the first 10 years out of school. I have found that to be more or less true for me and most of my peers. If I had taken the gas turbine technician job I was offered out of the Navy I'd be making about $70K right now with travel.....I know because I still keep up with a couple of buddies that took that job.

Like I said earlier.....it really all depends on what you want and not the money. What a guy wants may be the single toughest questions to answer in life. My take is that I'm 37 and still don't know what a "want" but with an education you have more options.

Good Luck and keep at it!

Bill

Bill,

Yes it's 36 academic months (Although that could easily change since Pres Obama is already screwing a lot of people over by changing it) and I came in with a few transfer credits. It's just really tough living pay check to pay check and with stuff happening lately (motorcycle accident, medical records being released to someone other than me, not being given a job I was promised, issues with trying to buy my house) it just makes everything difficult. I'm living pay check to pay check right now (hopefully that could change if I ever get a VA disability rating and a settlement from the insurance for this accident stuff. That and i'm 25 which to you guys isn't old but to me it seems old to be starting my degree. Also with my security clearance expiring (although a year and a half away) if I don't use it could cost me some jobs because some companies don't want to pay for the investigation.

You pay if you go to school...for a brief time.

You pay if you don't go to school...for a lifetime.


You get to pick the way you'd rather pay.

You pay if you go to school...for a brief time.

You pay if you don't go to school...for a lifetime.


You get to pick the way you'd rather pay.

Like I mentioned before if I did take the job I'd still get a degree just in something other than Aerospace Engineering. I suppose I should mention I do have an associates degree in Aviation maintenance

Well, if you decide to take that job in Clovis....check this out. I think this is something you could build on and get a good chance at completing part time/online

http://liberal-arts.enmu.edu/sciences/aviation/index.shtml

Check out the bottom that page; part time students pay in-state tuition.

Main campus is in Portales which I think is only about a 20 minute drive south of Clovis. Don't know anything about the quality of the school or program, but it's worth taking a look. I also think there is a Baptist university in Clovis as well. If you don't mind driving....just to the east there is Plainview, TX. There's a small University there. Lastly, 100 miles to the South East is Texas Tech University. That's probably the closest University of size that has an accredited Engineering program. I know you said that you won't do engineering if you go to clovis....but you can't blame a guy for trying. :)

Bill

Bill,

Thanks for the link I actually looked into that. I would probably get the same degree but with ERAU since I already have my transfer credits there. I shouldn't say I WON"T do engineering because I'd love to continue in it. I should say that it probably wouldn't be feasible for me to do engineering because of the distance and the whole part where they don't offer courses online for it.

This is an easy one.

Get the degree.

With an education $65,000 will be the least amount of money you ever make in a year instead of the most ...

Stop rationalizing. Focus on the education and let the job go.

GET THE DEGREE.

If the economy keeps circling the drain as it is now, there will be plenty of people with big degrees WISHING they had "lowly" $65,000/year jobs.

If the economy keeps circling the drain as it is now, there will be plenty of people with big degrees WISHING they had "lowly" $65,000/year jobs.

That's my fear is that this is going to happen.

I can understand that. Question is, in the next 35 years of your working life what option will give you the most opportunties? I doubt the economy will be down for 3.5 decades and if it is I don't think you wont be able to count on any job. At the end of the day 15 years from now, what will make you more attractive to an employer than the rest of your peer group? Lasty, going to school does not erase the skill and experience you have already attained. Even after getting the Engineering degree employers still look at the "total package". My 4 years as a Gas turbine tech in the Navy was never "lost" by going to school.

You have some good points at this point in this day and age i'm just not sure how much the piece of paper means to employers.

FWIW, you haven't mentioned what the company may offer in terms of benefits. I retired at the end of 2009 and was working for my current company a month and a half before my final out. I will say you MUST do your research on the company before accepting any job offer. My company requires four months of overseas time and the overseas pay is pretty good based on how they have it worked out. Of course that depends on if you are willing to deploy again. I concur with the comments about getting the job and continuing your education. The company may have benefits that will aid you in your degree completion. Do your research and then make your decision based on the facts, who knows where the economy is going to be in a month or even a year with the congress not thinking of spending like we all have to, nothing in the account means nothing to spend! good luck either way you go but it is your decision and you will ultimately have to decide regardless of anyones input. Job offers may not always be out there and even with the degree you may be hunting without pay for one.....things to consider.

Part of being hired at American Airlines is the big test and the higher you score the better the job.Stay in school and get the high score.

First let me say thanks for your service to this country.

Second, I would highly recommend getting your degree, do NOT put it off, and use every last penny available to you under the GI Bill. That "piece of paper" is absolutely valuable to employers and once you get it, it cannot be taken away. Do it while you have the opportunity.

Some things you might consider...
-Join reserves...many states offer additional funding for school that will not affect your GI Bill
-You will continue to build a network of people through college, career fairs, and internships (great way to network and get your foot in the door)
-Absolutely look at the total benefits package (health, 401k matching, travel, advancement, childcare, local area, etc...) and talk to as many people as you can
-do an internship with the company that is offering you this job...if you like them, and they like you, they will most likely find a way to bring you on board when you graduate(easier for a large company)
-there are very smart people without degrees making great livings...they are the exception to the rule
-when you get out there in your engineering discipline with degree in hand...many more doors will open for you

Good luck in your decision...


One thing I dont understand...you said the security clearance required for the job is higher than what the company wants to pay for? What did you mean? You have to pay for it yourself?

One thing I dont understand...you said the
security clearance required for the job is higher than what the
company wants to pay for? What did you mean? You have to pay for it
yourself?

Well the position I was offered requires a top Secret clearance and I
only have a secret. That wasn't an issue for them and they would
upgrade. If I didn't have a security clearance they might no even
consider me for the position.

Unfortunately reserves and internships aren't an option for me. Either
I maintain full time status with school or take the job. I need the
money and I can't leave my dog alone and airlines won't allow him to
fly.

The company has a good 401K, education benefits, and no deployments unless volunteered.

Take advantage of your benefits while you have them, get your Engineering Degree.

Unfortunately reserves and internships aren't an option for me. Either
I maintain full time status with school or take the job. I need the
money and I can't leave my dog alone and airlines won't allow him to
fly.

.

I may be misunderstanding you...but are you saying you can't afford to live without GI Bill when you are doing an intership? If that's the case just FYI....in engineering internships/co-ops are paid. I was making $22/hr has a Junior co-op when I was in school. That's how I helped pay for the next two semesters. I was married in school with a house and my GIBill was only $321/month. I worked part time in a machine shop for $9/hr. Honestly...you get by. Remember, there are always student loans. Best debt I ever went into. Just lots of ramen noodles and no cable tv for 5 years. I'm sure you're used to that though.

Also, several guys I was in school with were in the reserves. It meant a lot of late nights studying making up for drill weekend but they made it happen.

Good luck.

What I meant by I can't afford internships is that unless it's in the town i'm living in I can't do it. I am working on purchasing my house and wouldn't be able to afford rent on two places. I've thought about trying to rent out the house but i'm having a hard enough time trying to rent out a room I have opening.

To be honest if the VA would hurry up and get my disability rating done with I probably wouldn't be in this situation (depending on what it comes out to). I've just had so much stuff happen to me in the past 8 months I have lived here it's crazy. I'm currently working 2 jobs I work for my school and I also work for an auto parts store on the weekend. The reserves are not an option because the distance to travel to the nearest base.

I'm currently under the post 9/11 Gi Bill and get 1200 a month for housing while I'm full time.

Stay in school. Then you can potentially chose to live and work where you wish. Maybe you are right, Engineer jobs start out in the 50s, but they also grow to 2-4x that with a little experience. What happens if you are forced with a career change in 5 years? That degree will be invaluable then.

I think am not sure what to reply to your post but all i want to say is never loose your hope and keep your job trails going on ! Am sure someone will be there who cares about the talent rather then degrees !