i have just come across a good deal on a 327 engine, i was thinking of taking out the 350 original moter and sitting it to the side, and doing my build up on this moter. is it worth the time and money, and can i make 300-350 hp with this moter? (as i understand its out of a 70chevy with a 4bbl carb/stock intake)

Well, since they say it is out of a 70 did they claim that it is original? No 70 velle was build with an original 327. They did though have the 307. That is a whole different motor. Never heard any comment how it is really desirable, and you will have a rough time getting 350 hp out of it without going nuts.

IF it is a 327 you should be able to make 300 hp fairly easily.

Get some decent heads, intake, carb, and mild cam. You will be there.

I don't understand why you want to do the build on the 327 when you have a 350 you could build. The 350 will give you more power and torque for the same effort and dollars that you would put into the 327.

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Paul Hesco
www.chevelles.net/nfc (http://www.chevelles.net/nfc)

The 327 was a good motor, but the 350 is a better one... If there weren't smog and poor gas, etc, the 350s would have been built with more power (as the 1970 LT1s, etc...

When comparing the 327 to a 350, most people tend to think of high-compression, high performance motors of the 60s versus the low compression smog stuff of later years...

Build a 327 and a 350 with the same relative parts, and the 350 will be a stronger/better motor... Might get a few more revs out of a 327, but for any heavy car (Chevelle, etc) you need the extra torque of the 350 motor...

By the way, The 1968 was the last year for the 327...

[This message has been edited by 1966_L78 (edited 11-07-2002).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stikman33:
Never heard any comment how it is really desirable, and you will have a rough time getting 350 hp out of it without going nuts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh. Ever hear of the L79? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif Happens to be a 350hp 327 from the factory using off the shelf parts. Nicely done by Chevy with lots of little things that help it get to 350hp, but hardly exotic.

Making 300hp is a piece of cake, 350 shouldn't take much more. It can also be done on a budget since even old vintage Chevy parts can get you there (such as using double hump heads instead of modern aftermarket heads). The 327 will produce less torque than the 350 with similar mods but the 327 will be somewhat more responsive and have better RPM capabilities.

If it's a 307 it would be quite a step down from your 350. The 307 can be made to run well, but the 307 was never intended to be a hi-perf motor and the 327 was always considered a hi-perf motor and the components that make up the short block bear that out. In other words, a basic original 327 short block will be better able to deal with modifications increasing power output than the stock 307 short block would.

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NCOA member #220 ACES member #1670
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http://heartland.chevelles.net

Rich, mistook that one there. I was talking about the 307 when i said that.

To be honest i have a 327 in my 70 velle. It came with it when i bought it. I love this motor. Runs great and strong, no problems with it. Next time i go to the track i expect to put down a high 14 with a 2.73 open diff on street tires and stock tranny and torque convertor. This little motor rips. I am not one to bash the 327 sinve i have one that i really love. I am using it till my .40 over 402 is done http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

327s were made from 62-69.
The 350 is pretty much a stroked 327.
Ask the guy if he knows what heads are on the 327 because they might be good for your 350.
If it is a 307 instead of a 327, you can bore your 350 block and use the crank and new +.030 327 pistons for a 331 since the 307s and 68-69 327s used the same crank.

[This message has been edited by Glenn1018 (edited 11-07-2002).]

id like to sit the original 350 off to the side so i dont do somthing stupid hotrodding it...like throw a rod through the block (you have no idea how much bad luck i have with this sorta thing http://www.chevelles.com/forum/frown.gif) I want the 350 to still be there if i ever decide to sell the car, so ital be original again (or close enough, different tranny)

Just spoke with him again and he said he checked into it and its a 64 327 with the steel crank...dont know if this was a common option but he felt it was worth noting

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stikman33:
Rich, mistook that one there. I was talking about the 307 when i said that.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh I see, I think I misunderstood your first post.

All small journal 327s (which would include 1964 versions) used a forged steel crank. Very good, very strong crank. As far as original Chevy parts go you can't find a better crank.

If it's a '64 unit, it would be a 250, 300, 365 or 375 HP engine. The 365 and 375 HP versions were Corvette only so it's not likely one of those. Find out if it has double hump heads (head casting number is likely a 461 if they are). Those are the good heads with larger passages and larger valves.

If you just want a good solid yet powerful and responsive cruising around motor the 327 could be the ticket. Depending on the price, a dime-a-dozen rebuildable 350 would work for your purposes too.

If you use the 64 heads they will not have the accessory holes. It would be better to find a 350 to replace your 350 and keep the org. accessory set up. JMOP Bob J.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by firstchevelle:
Just spoke with him again and he said he checked into it and its a 64 327 with the steel crank...dont know if this was a common option but he felt it was worth noting<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that ALL small journal 327's had a steel crank. Post the numbers. Sounds like the same block and crank I have. "S" code on the front pad, 4577? crank, and 3782870? block. I'm going by memory here so I may be wrong on the exact number.

A 327 is a great engine with a lot of history behind it. It was "THE" Corvette engine for a while. There are a couple of things to keep in mind if you build one. Check the snout of the crank to see if it has been drilled and tapped for a crank bolt. If it hasn't been drilled, get it drilled and tapped when you take it in for machining. The oil filter adapter gasket that came with my engine building kit didn't work. If you can't find the correct one, get one for a 409 Chevy. You will also have to convert from a canister style filter to the disposable type. No big deal, a $15 kit takes care of that. Lastly, the PCV system is a little different. You will notice that the 1964 327 valve cover has no holes for a PCV valve. There is a 90 elbow at the back of the block for the PCV system. So, basicly just be aware that there are some differences between the 327 and 350.

Those 327 valve covers are pretty sweet looking though, just ask L-79 Rich! In my opinion the best. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif



[This message has been edited by Unclepennybags (edited 11-08-2002).]

Got to love them ford guys...got the moter with everything with it for roughly
110$! looks great, doesnt even look as if it needs to be bored over. Do i realy need a new cam or can i reuse the old one?

Nice deal on the 327. Do you have the block and head numbers?

Bob has a good warning about the bolt holes. That engine's from the generator days.

I wouldn't risk reusing the cam, but that's up to you.

[This message has been edited by Glenn1018 (edited 11-09-2002).]

i pick it up later today, have to wait for him to go over and unlock his shop. I should have all the numbers tonight.

just brought her home, needs major work, but its still somthing to start with.
Numbers are
engine : 810-180, t6, 7, 9858?90 (illegable stamp)

intake: 3844457, n, 8, 6n, T

Heads 3795896, t(triange), e2162

any information would be appretiated, doing all the research i can right now.

cleaned it better with oven cleaner and i think its 3858180

http://www.mortec.com/

According to mortec those are 60cc heads and correct for your 64 327. Another source says they're from the 250hp engine and have the smaller (1.72 and 1.5) valves. They'll give a lot of CR, so you should choose your cam carefully.

One more thing...if you're replacing your 350 with this engine and plan on running a TH350 you may need the smaller 153-tooth flexplate which will likely require a different starter. I'm guessing the 350 has the large flexplate.

[This message has been edited by Glenn1018 (edited 11-10-2002).]

You've got a nice foundation to build on. Great block, nice crank.

Those heads aren't going to breathe really well. They will give you a high compression, torquey, fuel efficient package though. Head work is pretty expensive, so depending on how the seats look, and what condition the valves are in, you may want to upgrade to some new aftermarket heads. I put some Trick Flows on my 1964 327 block. Really worked out nice. World products and Dart make some nice heads also.

I think that you have a 4GC intake there. Did you get a carb too? The 4GC is a little hard to come by, and they don't flow nearly as much as a Quadrajet.

Mike

They told you it came out of a 70 Chevy (Ford People, Right?) Buy the way, I have a 64 Chevelle with a 327ci and love it. If the 64 327 was in a 70, Maby most of the bolt on things is already there. Use the 70 intake, Carb, rocker covers and plug the pcv/down draft hole in the back of the block. This will cover Oil Filler, PCV, Choke, Throttle, Kickdown linkage and get the Rad. Hose going in the correct direction. I think you can reuse your 70 Flex plate and Starter. Now all You to bolt on is the Alt., Power steering pump, Smog Pump?,A/C? I think you should look at a set of later heads with accessory holes,Open chamber, 194/150 valves and harden seats. It will run better on todays pumped gas and the 70 accessories will bolt up. You could rebuild your 350 and take care of it. If you get to crazy with the replacement Eng. you may not have a nice 70 Chevelle to put the Original 350 back in. Its your car and I hope you enjoy it as much as I do my 64. Take any suggestions as info only and build your own car. Have Fun. Bob J.

I should clarify something from my last post. The flexplate isn't the issue, it's the starter mounting bolt holes in the block I was talking about. There are two types of bolt holes, staggered and in line. Easy enough to check...just look at the bolt holes in the 327 block, and then look at the starter mounting bolts on your 350. If it's the same pattern you have nothing to worry about. If they're different you'll need a different starter and flexplate to work with it.

Those heads may give you a big headache unless you also have all the necessary brackets, as already mentioned. If it was me, I'd try to find some of the better 305 heads for a few reasons; they shouldn't cost much, you'll still have a good CR, the 1.84 intake valves are a plus, they'll already have the hardened exhaust valve seats, they'll have the bolt holes. You may find some 350 heads with the 1.94 valves, but they'll probably need more work and have larger chambers which will lower your CR, unless they're earlier heads, in which case they'll have 64 or 69cc chambers, but no hardened seats. Avoid mid-70s heads such as the 882s.

[This message has been edited by Glenn1018 (edited 11-10-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Glenn1018 (edited 11-10-2002).]

So it woulnt be cost effective to have hardened valve seats installed? this is planed to be a dialy driver.

If you don't have an intake manifold for it already, why not put a set of Vortecs on. Will out flow those 305 heads by a long shot and probably cost the same as punching the 305 heads out to 1.94's and adding hardened seats and a valve job. A Crane Energizer w 218 deg duration @ .050" and .454" lift will work real well in that combo.

I am on a very low budget so the vortecs are out, i have 2 mounths before i leave for basic training and i would like to have the block preped and the heads at least done before i leave. only have a part time job at the moment so im trying to do this as most cost affective as posible

Build the little sucker back stock and drop an old -097 solid little Duntov cam in it with a 300hp/327 AFB cast-iron intake, an adapter and a 600 Holley, 1850 Carb. Add a set of 1.625" four tube long headers and THE SUCKER WILL MOST DEFINATELY PUT A GRIN ON YOUR FACE!!!

Try to find a set of medium valve heads if you can but if not I know the little valved heads aren't the best but it will go anyway!!! By the time you recede the valves you probably be able to build a better engine. Imho...

And if you don't want to screw with a solid cam, that little 218 cam is also A DANDY!!!

pdq67

The rocker arms are already removed which is why im thinking of going with a hydrolic cam, if ive got to replace it why not upgrade it somewhat? is it feasable to take the rockers off another chevy head with a hydrolic cam? i know i dont want to use the lifters out of it but i dont know about the springs and the rocker arms.

I haven't checked lately but Vortecs were going for $450/pair assembled brand new from GM. Around here a decent valve job w/ hardened seats and bronze guides goes for just about the same cost. Point is that you'll spend almost as much on some junk 305 heads as you will for a new set of Vortecs. Unless you go for the cheap valve grind (knurled guides, reconditioned valves) but you'll be tearing it apart in less than 10k miles if you're lucky. I would sell the intake on ebay and use the money to buy the Vortec manifold.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by firstchevelle:
I am on a very low budget so the vortecs are out, i have 2 mounths before i leave for basic training and i would like to have the block preped and the heads at least done before i leave. only have a part time job at the moment so im trying to do this as most cost affective as posible<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The cam mentioned above would be a great choice for your motor, but a higher stall torque converter would be a plus with that particular cam. I'm running that cam (.454" 216 deg duration @.050" lift) in my 327. I've got a 2600 stall converter.

If you are on a budget, skip the chrome and the aftermarket ignition. Get some decent low priced heads. World and Dart sell some GREAT iron heads for the same amount it would cost you to repair yours.

Once you have the engine rebuilt, and have some decent heads on it, you can always upgrade other stuff later when you have the money.

If you got the 4gc carb, the intake and carb will work okay till you upgrade to a Quadrajet.

Doesn't the low buck Vortec swap run $700-800 after all is said and done?

If you're looking to rebuild the 327 while spending as little as possible I'd suggest the following:
New mains, rod and cam bearings
Ridge ream, hone and hot tank block
New rings
New cam, lifters, and valve springs
New timing chain
New oil pump (people here say to avoid HV pumps)
Heads...just find some that you can bolt on and run as is

When you have more money later you can spend a few hundred on heads if you want.

[This message has been edited by Glenn1018 (edited 11-11-2002).]

Glenn -you're right about the cost of the Vortec swap but I think he's got to find an intake anyway because I don't think a std squarebore or Qjet will bolt to the 4GC manifold. I could be wrong though - never worked on a 4GC. You may be able to get by cheaper w/ some other heads, but I don't think dumping new valves and hardened seats into a set of 305 heads is money well spent. IMO Vortecs are about the best bang for the buck if you don't have a good intake. I think we're all forgetting that he's got a running 350 already in the car. Smart money says run the 350 while you build your new engine right. So what if it takes a year to build it, you haven't thrown any money away on "temporary" machine work.

well i wouldnt call it dependable...its on its last leg...or rather foot. She starts and runs roughly, though a new hei destributor might fix that...I pulled the valve covers off it and it looks as if its seen alot better days. It smokes on start and when running, and is weak to pickup with not enough power to want to take her above 55. Id like to get this engine together so i can rebuild the other one when i get out of basic.

The picture's a little clearer now. If you're looking for a low buck rebuild, Glenn outlined it pretty well. If the engine's only got to last a year or so, you could have the heads you've got re-done w/ a basic regrind. I wouldn't worry about the hardened seats - just don't run it real hard. All totaled though, you're going to sink more than a few bills into it. Just remember you usually end up living w/ your "temporary" fixes a lot longer than you planned.

im trying to shoot for around 500-800 if i can, ive seen some good deals on ebay for on heads for around 250, master rebuild kit for 350 with all gaskets and bearings + pistons, rings, rods, oil pump cam. I can get a decient intake around here for 50$ (iron 4bbl or 2 bbl)...and the block bored 30 over for 80..

cont...
hit the submit button by accident...
78 for the lifters/spring kit...am i forgetting anything?

You need to be careful on the rebuild kit because the rod and main bearings in the 350 kit won't fit a small journal 327.

I bet if you add a 16 oz bottle of good old-fashioned Marvel Mystery Oil to the gas tank every so often, your soft seat heads will last longer then what one would really expect.... Just my humble opinion...

The stuff is excellent as a top oil lube!!!pdq67