Rear control arm bushings w/ thrust washers:
Are the thrust washer neccessary if you already have a very tight fit with the bushings alone? Is anybody running these bushings without the thrust washers?
Where the upper arms connect to the differential, those thrust washers went on fine; but the other six are very tight as it is, without the thrust washers.
Thanks for your help.

you are not alone. i had the same situation. i left mine out too. i have not driven the car yet. maybe someone else who has will speak up?
pete

As soon as I can find an answer I can 'grease em up' put the arms back on the car. If I find an answer elswhere I'll report back here.

The thrust washers do make a tight fit even tighter but then that's the whole point. I used Energy Suspension bushings and they were very clear that the thrust washers were required, otherwise the arm could move side to side causing undue wear on the bolts and bushing shells.

Grease 'em up good and they install much easier. The gooey grease they supply is essential to installation, function and squeak-free operation.

i just put the bushings in my rear, I had no probs with the washers going in, i just greased up good and put them right in.

I do have another question though, the bolts are they suppose to be a little sloppy when going thru the center pin? It seems a larger bolt could be used.

You do not want a super snug fit between the bolt and the center sleeve of the bushing. Remember, the arm needs to freely pivot on the shaft of the bolts.

But then they shouldn't allow for an appreciable amount of movement either. Any chance your bolts are worn and should be replaced?

Thats what I'm thinking. I found a grd 8 bolt in my junk box that fits alot better than whats in there now. It is still free in the pin but alot snugger than whats in there. So I will go to Lowes and get seven more, plus lock washers and flats. Thanks.

I used grade 9's in the entire suspension on my 70 with the thrust washers, have not had any issues with it yet. And as mentioned previously, use the grease the give you, it makes the job that much easier.

I am about ready to replace my bushings also. How hard is it to press them into the control arms? Any special advice? What is the best way to remove them?

It is not difficult if you have a vise. Pretty much what ya do is drill the rubber out around the bushing, knock the center out, then knock the rubber out, set the control arm on the floor, take a chisel, 1/2 or 3/4 and knock dimples into the center part, put it back into the vise and the small end I knock it in a little with the chisel, then I just knocked it back out. Putting the new bushing in is not hard. I got the rust off the control arm, I put the bushings in the freezer for a couple of days till cold, then I greased up both contact surfaces and set it in the control arm and tapped it with a large ball pine hammer to get it started then I had a piece of solid would and knocked it in making sure it went in straight. The control arm ends will bend a little but can be easily straightened back out with hammer.
Now the upper ones that are in the rear end were a little bit of a B****. I did them with rear in the car. It's pretty much the same procedure as the other ones but with less room to work in, all in all it took me by myself around a day to do it, keep in mind also I have tree herniated disk in my lower back so that slowed me down a bit. Valvoline also has this on their web site with a few steps left out. Also make sure your bolts are not worn. I am going to get new bolts today to replace the old ones. I will more than likely get them at lowes since they have the best selection of grd 8 bolts around here. You may want t wear goggles when doing the ones on the rear if it is in your car. My beast was was on jack stands also. I got it done though. Just grease everything up real good including the rubber spacer bushings.

You can also take your arms to a suspension shop and have them push them in and out for a fee. To me the cost is worth the savings in my time since removing and replacing them yourself can be time consuming if you don't have a press.

Patrick,
Consider using nuts with poly locks instead of nuts and lock washers. They will stay much more securely fastened. If you haven't read the thread on guys losing a lower control arm while driving their cars look for it and read it! Even lock washers can come loose or break, nuts with poly locks are a much safer bet! GM originally used pinch nuts (an old fashioned version of what poly lock nuts do) so there must have been a reason to use that method over lock washers.

I definitely second Rich's advice--don't use lock washers on suspension bolts! Seems that whenever I take apart an old car, half the split lock washers are broken in half when I remove the bolts. Sometimes the washers fall out completely and you lose all the clamping force of the bolted joint, and that leads to.... :eek: I visit the local specialty fastener store and buy the factory style crimped-end locking nuts.

I already thought of that. I called our local bolt company and they have everything I need. I did not like the lock washer idea anyway. Also someone said they use grade 9 bolts. I asked them about grade 9, and he said there was an L9 bolt. He said it was stronger but was more brittle. He said i should stay with grd 8.

Also it only took about an hour to put the bushings in the control arms. The rearend was a little more ttime consuming, well the first one was anyway, the second one was much faster. The local shop around here wanted to much, I felt, and they were going to be a couple of days. So I did it myself, the money savings will pay for the new hardware. Thats my story anyway, and i may stick to it.

Hmmm. If it can be done in an hour or so it would be worth it. I once removed one bushing and it ended up taking me hours but I had no clue how to do it and I ended up doing it the hard way (don't ask).

I'd stick with grade 8 bolts. That's what GM used. I agree with the assessment that grade 9 would be more brittle. Stronger is not always better. In such an application as suspension mounts you do want the bolt to be strong but you do want it to still be able to give just a little. The grade on bolts measures the hardness of the bolt not necessarily the overall strength of the bolt.

i was out googling and ran across the valvoline site that pretty much told you how to do it, and it was pretty straight forward, except for the ones in the rearend when the rear is still in the car, sitting on jack stands, and the mechanic has a screwed up back awaiting surgery. I think it went real well. I know if I were not hurt and did not have to take breaks, it would have been done alot faster. After you do one the operation gets a lot faster. next time you do them bring the car over and i'll help ya.

Do you remove one arm at a time, or remove all the arms at the same time?

One arm at a time.

Rich,
Your comments about using the thrust washers made me get everything organized and re-read the instructions. What I found was unexpected. The washers that go on the remaining positions are not as thick as the ones that go on the uca's at the differential tang but about half as thick which would make it a lot easier. Thanks for your guidence and direct answeres. The underbody of the car is now painted and ready to be dropped back down on the frame.
Again Rich, thank you very much!
Lou

I didn't even remember that myself. Congratulate yourself for taking a step back and figuring it out on your own! smile.gif

I do recall having to cut some notches on the thrust washers for the bushings that are pressed into the rear axle housing. That may not be required on all years though. My application was a '65 12-bolt.

My application is for a '69 12-bolt and you have to cut or grind the drivers side uca thrust washer on one side down to .125 (1/8") thickness for clearence of the differential housing. But thats the only one.

I did not press my bushings in either. I had John a Medina Motorsports do the work. They were very careful and even checked everything for straitness and concentricity. I did the front uca bushings though and the differential housing bushings where I used a 1/2' heat treated nut and stud set up. They came out and went in rather easy. I took the poly bushings out of the metal jackets and put the jackets in the freezer overnight. I really did'nt see much of a difference. When you have a +.002 press fit there would'nt be much of a difference. The freezer only reduced the jacket .0005 in size which was a reduction to a .0015 press fit. much of which was taken back when the thin jacket touched the warm
bushing hole.

Well, I just did the driver side upper. Got it out ok. Got the new bushing in the arm ok. putting the bushing in the rear end housing was a b...h! What's not in the way! Problem now....the arm dosen't line up. I slid it into the upper location, but the arm is about 1 inch away from sliding over the rear end location. I guess the axle must have been off center. Any suggestions? I'm think to remove the springs, etc and take the axle down altogether and finish that way. Advice??

Originally posted by ctrain22:
Well, I just did the driver side upper. Got it out ok. Got the new bushing in the arm ok. putting the bushing in the rear end housing was a b...h! What's not in the way! Problem now....the arm dosen't line up. I slid it into the upper location, but the arm is about 1 inch away from sliding over the rear end location. I guess the axle must have been off center. Any suggestions? I'm think to remove the springs, etc and take the axle down altogether and finish that way. Advice?? Dropping the entire rear axle out will only complicate you situation. The pinion of the axle housing needs to drop which will pivot the top of the housing forward which will allow you to attach the control arm. How are you supporting the car, with jack stands under the axle housing or under the frame? You might want to take the shocks loose from the axle to allow you to twist the axle housing.

When I did mine I put the stands under the frame. Then I used the floor jack either under the front of the diff or the rear depending on which way the rearend needed to move. When it gets close you can take a decent screw driver and put it through to help line things up.

Right now I have it supported by jack stands under the frame. Is it better to put the stands under the axle to keep the weight on it?

Thanks Rich....that did it. As soon as I put the jack under the pinion, it lined right up.Felt so good, I statred the other side this morning! Is it best to remove the bushing from the shell to install in the arm, or just install as they are shipped?