I heard they got rid of the point judging. :confused: Any MCC members on here that can confirm?

If true, they can watch their show become just another local Fireman's car show and entries will drop quite a bit :(

I know I don't need yet another show where owners walk around and vote for their favorite car.

Mike, I agree 100%. That was always my favorite show. :sad:

Well If they didn't the Judges need a class on whats original , service replacement, reproduction and just plain wrong, like we used to teach at NCOA the night before judging those events !!!!! Myself and many others who have witnesssed the blatent wrong componets judged as correct either by mistake or politics have been discussing this for years!!!!

Jim

The MCC website still shows judging on saturday only and it can be opted out of if you dont want your car judged. The site shows the last update as of 2/2/2010 so its not maintained on a regular basis.

Jim

Sorry guys , Read the March/April MCC news letter.

I have to agree on two comments,
Yes it was our 1st time there in 09' and it was one of the best shows we have been to in a long time.The Maryland members were so nice,the location was a great setting on "The Bay".Sunny skys,and the food was out of site!
As far as the points judging,I looked forward to the car being examined from top to bottom,side to side,inside and out.
This helps us know (By others) where our strong and weak points are.
Doing this helps the judges determine the totals in each class to fairly issue the placements of awards.We knew there were some areas that needed correcting and they were found and noted by the judges.We have since made those corrections.
To our surprise we were awarded,
1st in class (70' chevelle modified)
"Participants Choice" (Voted by all)
"Best Paint of the Show"
We (My wife and I) will be returning back this year in the "Crystal Class" We are looking forward to all the fun and good time that we had in 09'again in 2010'http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp10/bbmusclecars427/DSC_0295.jpg

I was getting my hopes up to make that my first and real car show for my 66 SS. but I guess I will have to think real hard if I want to drive my car 90 miles to win award that has the same meaning as my local car shows. if anyone knows of a point style car show for Chevelles on the east cost around PA/MD please let me know. I want someone who knows the car and what it should look like to nit pick my car so I can walk away proud of my handy work.

I'm going to shed some light on this subject....

No, there WILL NOT be point judging this year. Reason...lack of help to do it properly and efficiently. We are ALWAYS short on help.
Jim, I don't recall you stepping up to help judge the cars at the show in all the years I've been doing it so unless you want to step up and help, don't complain about it. The website will be updated with the details in the next couple weeks.
Each year we always lose anywhere from 5-10 people who commit their time to judge at the last minute and every year for one reason or another. The same group of people who do this every year end up getting burned out and tired of doing it down to the wire year after year with no additional help. Then the load gets increased on those that do volunteer their time to judge.
I will be happy to address any other questions about the change.

Yep, you can't complain if you haven't tried to help do the judging. I do the judging, so I can complain. I understand the problems getting folks to do the work, but I wish they'd come up with a better fix. I hate to see this turn into another local show. The judging always set this show apart, and now......

I wonder how many will head to GM Carlisle?

I judged at the MD. show. I said to Tom R. I would only do 70s because, I know 70s. Not sure about 69s or 71s. With AACA judging, For the most part. They will pick the best car in the class, And that is where they set the bar. Providing this car meets the Highest AACA Standards.
Hell, I have the wheels off and the 12 bolt and the suspension out of my wagon to get it cleaned up for the MD. show.
Bob

I can understand the club's position but I'm still disappointed. I have heard for years that they have trouble getting judges.

I must say though, sadly, I probably won't make the trip anymore. :(

Ok… So if I’m reading and comprehending the first couple of posts correctly … what you are saying is that the only thing separating the Maryland Chevelle Club show from any typical LOCAL car show is the point judging??? Are you kidding me??

Mmmmmm…. Let’s check this out by comparison.

A typical LOCAL Car Show – DJ (YES) …. Food Vendors (maybe) … Door prizes (maybe a few) … Nightly dinner gathering (NO) …. Cruise (NO) … Parts Vendors (typically NO) …. Games (typically NO) …. All Chevelles (NO) ….. Nice park setting on the water (typically NO) …. 125 + cars (typically NO) … attendance of Chuck Hanson (typically NO) …. Seminars (typically NO) …. 80+ trophies awarded (typically NO) … more than 1 day (typically NO) … need I go on?

MARYLAND CHEVELLE CLUB SHOW – YES TO ALL OF THE ABOVE … YEP … seems like just another LOCAL show not me…. NOT!!

ACES SHOW … NO Points judging, OHIO show … NO points judging, GEORGIA show … NO points judging … ALL just another LOCAL car show… NOT! Guess I’m just missing something here.

I’ll add my .02 to Tom’s post of why it was voted to stop the points judging (just one of many). It’s not that the Maryland Chevelle Club wanted to go back to a participant judging show. This was thought out long and hard and not an easy decision.

It takes a minimum of 48 judges (YES …48) to do our points judge show. For the past few years we have been short handed in doing the points judging, having to do the judging with around 30 people (or LESS!). Some (actually most) of these 30 then had to take on another class to ensure we got all of the cars judged… meaning they spent the good part of the day (4 or more hours) working their assess off to get through all of the cars. Most of the attendees appreciated this effort and of course we had a few that never did or will.

Now everyone has an opinion, and if you feel the judging was inconsistent…. So be it. I personally will disagree with you for the following reason. We had the same person, judging the same parts of the car in their assigned class. This helped to ensure the judges were consistent in how they judged. Even if they didn’t do it 100% correct, they were 100% consistent. Judging is a matter of opinion, I don’t care how much knowledge you have. I would put our top judges against anyone out there and go toe-to-toe! We have always taken the position that if you wanted to take OUR judges advice and make the suggested changes to your car … do so. If not, then don’t. It’s YOUR car … YOUR opinion, that simple!

The ONLY classes we cared about “originality”, was in Original Restored and Original Un-Restored. All other classes were basically about the quality. We never tried to achieve a NCOA type judging process and never intended to…. never WANTED to. The Maryland Chevelle Club show was and is meant to be a FUN show, A GATHERING of Chevelle Enthusiasts who shared a common interest and enjoyed being together.

The web site will be updated in the next week or so with all of the changes/info, now that we have made a decision of how we will run the show this year. FYI, some sections of the website are updated regularly (upcoming events/meetings) and some are not.

Ok.. that’s enough for now … most of you probably haven’t read down this far. For those with negative opinions, before you get on a site and start bashing how things are done or not done, give some thought to those that work their asses off to put on these shows and have a little appreciation for what they do. Think carefully about your words and whom they might impact. What could YOU have done to help or make things better? I know it’s a hard concept these days, but it’s NOT always about YOU!

Donnie Gates
Maryland Chevelle Club

We had to give it up too.
Obviously, you can't have point judging if you don't have enough qualified judges, otherwise the points assigned don't really mean much.

Point judging of modified cars would really be just a personal opinion of what that judge likes.

Well put Donnie!! :thumbsup:

As Bill said, well put, Donnie. The CanAm show has also gone to a participant judged show, too. Why...re-read Donnie's response. Instead of hours and hours of looking, looking again sometimes, and then tabulating votes, checking numbers, etc. we get the entire job done in a much shorter time. What happens then.....EVERYONE has more fun! Yes, we do get complainers and yes we undoubtedly lose some show-goers because of this method but ultimately, the ones who have kept coming have pretty much stated that our show is great and they like how it's done.

Personally, I really enjoy looking at the type of car that some have and want to be judged. They are "learning experiences" for me. I won't ever have one like that and that's OK with me. I'll just have to go someplace else to see them...my choice. Perhaps someday, our hobby will be able to satisfy all factions (probably not!) with one show. Until then, I guess it's up to each individual to make the choice that fits their needs.

Respectfully,

Duke Mitchell
CanAm president

I can truly understand not using the point judging system, setting up a show is a lot of work not to mention having the judging. That being said I would like to see ACES sponsored shows have some sort of comment, recommendation section from judging participants that may help with the presentation and restoration of our cars. We see our cars everyday and I think it is great to have a critical eye look at them, not necessarily to find fault but rather to help improve the car. How this can be done, I don't know but just an idea.

I have taken my scoring sheets from MD very seriously and I appreciate the comments, it has helped me realize what I need to pay attention to.

MD puts on an awesome show and the effort of everyone involved is greatly appreciated.

The thing I don't understand is: Why is judging described as "work".. It's a major part of this hobby. I'm a judge at the Maryland show, and I certainly never thought of it as work. I understand the paperwork adding up the scores is work, but it's only one day out of an entire year. It seems to me, if you don't enjoy doing the judging, you probably don't understand the restoration process, and probably shouldn't be a judge. For those of us who spend the time doing the research and the restoration work, look forward to doing the judging, and having our cars judged. Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand why it's "work" judging at a car show.

Nothing against the Maryland folks. I guess there just isn't enough people who care about the judging process, to get the job done.

The thing I don't understand is: Why is judging described as "work".. It's a major part of this hobby. I'm a judge at the Maryland show, and I certainly never thought of it as work. I understand the paperwork adding up the scores is work, but it's only one day out of an entire year. It seems to me, if you don't enjoy doing the judging, you probably don't understand the restoration process, and probably shouldn't be a judge. For those of us who spend the time doing the research and the restoration work, look forward to doing the judging, and having our cars judged. Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand why it's "work" judging at a car show.

Nothing against the Maryland folks. I guess there just isn't enough people who care about the judging process, to get the job done.

I never judged at a Chevelle show but I have judged at many local NCRS chapter events and I truly enjoy there judging process. I learn something new every time I do it and every time I talk to a older member. they all do it for the love of the car and hobby. they get flack from just about everyone in the car community for being to strict so to speck. but the car owner and restorer of the car learns so much.

that is why I was looking forward to entering my Chevelle at the show. I tried my hardest to get it very close to original and paid attention to a lot of little details and asked a lot of questions to get to this point. so I was hoping to have a little recognition of all my hard work from someone who truly knows what they are looking at. even if I would not win a trophy I would walk away happy knowing that I can come back next year and try again after fixing what they found wrong.

so if you think my expectations will be meet this year I will be there with my car. I know I promised a few people that I would be there:beers:

Donnie/Tom, I'm curious if any alternatives were considered. An obvious one might be to only point judge certain classes...like OR and survivor. All due respect to the modified folks but I just don't understand point judging on those cars anyway. I think participant judging works well for modified cars.

This might be a way to keep the hard core people coming with much fewer judges and headaches.

Thanks.

By the way, I've never been asked to judge but I would gladly do it when I can.

As Bill said, well put, Donnie. The CanAm show has also gone to a participant judged show, too. Why...re-read Donnie's response. Instead of hours and hours of looking, looking again sometimes, and then tabulating votes, checking numbers, etc. we get the entire job done in a much shorter time. What happens then.....EVERYONE has more fun! Yes, we do get complainers and yes we undoubtedly lose some show-goers because of this method but ultimately, the ones who have kept coming have pretty much stated that our show is great and they like how it's done.


Respectfully,

Duke Mitchell
CanAm president


Duke, Bill, Donnie.

This is absolutely a carbon copy of why we do not judge anymore. The whole process became a grind for the club, the judges, and the participants themselves.

There were a a few I'm sure who abstain from our show for that reason, but the folks who come to our show, don't leave without having a good time.

Our show I think has improved for all by not judging anymore.


Rocky Hill
Mid-America Chevelle Club President

The work of judging, is in dealing with upset people. Trying to explain why their car fell short of what they expected.

Donnie/Tom, I'm curious if any alternatives were considered. An obvious one might be to only point judge certain classes...like OR and survivor. All due respect to the modified folks but I just don't understand point judging on those cars anyway. I think participant judging works well for modified cars.

This might be a way to keep the hard core people coming with much fewer judges and headaches.

Thanks.

I believe Mark may have a very good thought here. Point judging IMO, should really apply to factory correct restorations or cars that may qualify for "Survivor" status. I've been to many shows with 500/700 cars and out of that number, perhaps 10% of those cars could really be considered cars that could be point judged, as far as originality goes. Maybe it would be possible for an extra fee, for an owner to have his car point judged, if he were looking for this option. The extra cash could then be disbursed/divided among any Judges who may have incurred long distance travel expenditures or whatever. This is by no means any type of slight to the people who own modified cars but how, when factory correctness puts a vehicle at the top, can one person judge a modified car against another? I think that is a very difficult thing to do, that category, I believe is best left for "Peoples' Choice". My friend Nick owns the awesome modified Black 70' from Chevelleabration that has been featured in a few mags. How can you even judge that car against a field of factory restos, it's in a league of its' own!!!? :yes:

ya mean I'm doin all this for nothin?

ya mean I'm doin all this for nothin?

Stan, all your hard work will NEVER be for nothing, you may just have to travel a little. Ecklers' has a pretty good point judged Winter National show in Feb. every year. A car like yours would also find recognition in the National AACA shows, which are incredible and host the best of the best of all cars. Lastly the new show, MC&CN in Chicago the week before Thanksgiving, to me is the biggest of them all with great judging. PS, the travel is the fun part!!!!:thumbsup:

Thanks for the encouragement Mike. I was just kidding around. I like this part of the hobby.

I am half way up the AACA ladder and just registered to get my Grand National Junior at New Bern NC. Travelling is not a problem, will be at CB10 and OH shows. I may go to Chicago with Bill Rose and Al Galdi this year as well.

Right now I'm in the middle of Tax Season (I'm a CPA) and all work on the car has ceased for the past few weeks. I will then have less than a month to put the car back together to NC.

See you at CB10?

I'm blown away by the comments I'm seeing. Last year they annouced for judging help
which I was glad to help with. Like all clubs/shows the help is dwindling.
I think the guys that are b..ching sould have no worries, there car will automaticly win
wherever they go. I had my best car there one year, and didn't learn from them what was wrong with my car, I already knew. Like someone said,to help one day out of the year?
If MCC changes there mind I will help again, and enjoy all the other great activities.
Good luck MCC I'll be there, Ed

Last year was my first MD show and I had fun. It's great to see my Chevelle Friends!

I don't know what the qualifications for a judge are, but i've been up and through my 72 vert and would feel pretty comfortable helping out should they change their minds. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the encouragement Mike. I was just kidding around. I like this part of the hobby.

I am half way up the AACA ladder and just registered to get my Grand National Junior at New Bern NC. Travelling is not a problem, will be at CB10 and OH shows. I may go to Chicago with Bill Rose and Al Galdi this year as well.

Right now I'm in the middle of Tax Season (I'm a CPA) and all work on the car has ceased for the past few weeks. I will then have less than a month to put the car back together to NC.

See you at CB10?

I'm looking forward to New Bern as well for the blue car, CB10 I'm not so sure about yet. I could really use the time and funds I'd spend going to CB10 to further the Flint car along. I need that car done for Chicago!!!!:thumbsup: That show I want to bring both cars and Rambo Trucking needs a bigger trailer!!!!:beers:

I don't know what the qualifications for a judge are, but i've been up and through my 72 vert and would feel pretty comfortable helping out should they change their minds. :thumbsup:

Stan, you and I can judge the 72's... :D

I think that it is a good idea, having a seperate entry for those who want their car points judged. But, then other complications arise. How many awards alloted for the judged cars? You may have 5 70's show up for points, but no 64's. Lump all the points cars into one class and have the top three or five?? Sure way to piss a lot of people off who have nice cars.
The downfall of a participant judged show, is that it turns into a politics game. "Hey, I'll vote for your car if you vote for mine..." :sad: Then you get the same group of people winning every show.
But, hey, it's not about the cars, it's about meeting up with old friends and catching up on old times..... maybe it would be better off to not have ANY awards... :o or pass out ballots to the general public and let them vote for their top three favorites....

I'm blown away by the comments I'm seeing. Last year they annouced for judging help

Thank you for pointing that out Ed. Yes it was announced multiple times that judges were needed.
As far as criteria...the only thing that is not allowed is judging a class in which you have a car registered. When it comes to the OR and OU cars, the judges of those classes need to know the year of the car they will be judging fairly well...especially when it comes to engine bay and undercarriages. The interior and exterior are fairly easy to score. As far as the modified cars...they get judges purely on the quality of the car. The reason as of right now for not point judging the OR & OU cars only is out of fairness. We felt if you the most fair thing to do was do them all or none. Now as far as having the option to have a registered car point judged, that has come up as a topic of discussion. It will be further discussed as time goes on. There may be a fee involved for it as well and it would have NO outcome as far as awards go. It would be presented as a separate "service" so to speak for those interested.

I think this is all good discussion. I would imagine that anyone that has been to this show many times (as I have) and had their cars judged against some of the best in the country are sad to see it change. Doesn't mean they are mad at MCC. They're just bummed out. I always thought that the main attraction at this show has been the HIGH level restored cars brought in by Bill Rose, Albert Galdi, Doug Yoder, Mike Crown, John Haislip and so many others. I hope they keep bringing them out.

Mark, one thing I want to correct in your last post. The cars are not judged against each other. They are judged against themselves or a standard if you will. None of the cars in a given class are compared against each other at any time.

I have judged at the MCC show for many years, and I would like to go on record by saying there are NO POLITICS involved in judging at our show. The class my judging group judges is based on quality and attention to detail and let me tell you, the women in my group are really tough on those items mentioned.

Hell, I don't even own a Chevelle anymore.

Bill Rose, It is work, spending time out there in the hot sun, down on hands and knees, making sure that the attention to detail wasn't skipped on the undercarriage for a couple of hours. I know what work is, I do automotive repair for a living and work in a hot, sweaty garage for 8 plus hours a day. If it is making me sweat, its work.

I have read all your comments and have met the majority of you posting on this topic. There are so many details that go into planning one of these shows. Most people have no idea. It really burns me when I read some of the negative comments. My main focus is to make sure everyone has a great time while enjoying some of the highest quality Chevelles in the Northern Region. Points or no Points, I am sure the Maryland Organization will put on a great show.

I whish I could make it but I will be attending my nephews wedding in Upper Michigan that weekend. Send me a sponsor sheet so I can support this great show!

Well I guess I should make a comment as I have been going to the Maryland show for 19 years. I have been a judge for just about as many years, and one of the head judges in the OR class. As a member of the club this topic was never discussed with us. The decision was made by a select few people. As a judge I never heard anyone complain about having to judge, I have judged as many as 3 classes when they were short on judges. Like Bill I always looked forward to the show and the judging. The judges did that part of the work, and the club counted up the points. They will still have to count up the points no matter which kind of show they put on. So it is still the same amount of work for them. So for Tom I am one of the group who did this every year long before you were even a member and I'm not burned out just very disappointed. Mark sorry to tell you but I will be one of those that will not be bringing one of my cars to the show for the first time in now 20 years. Doug:sad:

Just an idea:
Each show has it's own identity and personality. Here is how I remember them (in addition to the great car shows) CB is ground zero; OH is sweet tea; MD is the judging.

I have never not seen Chevelle guys rally for a cause. Before you pull the plug on judging, why not give the guys a chance to rally for this cause.

In addtion to approaching the group for judges, why not approach the guys in crystal class for judging. They have assembled some really nice cars and there is a good chance they would make great judges (or at least great trainees).

In addition, I would consider making OR and OU classes point judging and the modified classes participant judging.

Just my $.02. I'd hate to see the MD show loose some of it's "personality" (sort of like Alfafa without his cowlick) or CB without ground zero; or **GASP** OH without sweet tea!

I would be willing to put my hat in the ring for 1972 class.

Anyone else willing to step up? Have any other positive ideas?

I have no horse in this race, but I do have an opinion. Chevellabration, the biggest Chevelle show, doesn't have Judging, but the people who have cars worthy of being judged still show up.

Why, because it's like most of the other regional shows. It's a celebration of friends and cars, and like minded people getting together for a common cause.
Like I said previously, we had judging at the Mid-America Regional, and opted to do away with it, I personally empathize with the Maryland club, If you've never been completely involved with producing one of these shows from start to finish, you will really never have a complete idea of what it takes to produce a show, and especially one with judging. It's not that easy.

I think the Maryland club's show will absolutely be a complete success without judging, and I can guarantee that they(all the people who work making the show happen) will enjoy themselves considerably more

If the owners of some of these cars that truly want them judged, there are prestigious judging forums like AACA why not go to one of these.
I would think an award like that would be a nicer feather in ones cap, than an ACES regional show. If there were cohesion with all the regional, and ACES than it might a different story.

I just know that we are much happier without, than with.


Rocky

I'm another with no horse in this race, last year was the first and only year I attended the MCC show. We didn't have a car there...we went there solely to enjoy the cars and meet friends. I have to say we were very impressed with the quality and quantity of top notch Chevelles this show draws. The location and view, right on the bay, was incredible and we thoroughly enjoyed our visit there. (I'm sure some of you remember us as enjoying it a little too much :wacko:) While I understand the time and work that goes in to putting on a show like this, it saddens me to hear that what, in my opinion, draws the top notch cars to this event is to be no more. Not meant to take anything away from the modified cars...everyone has their own interest, mine, along with most of those who are disappointed in the points judging decision, happens to be with the OR cars. The guys that build these cars spend a lot of time, energy and money in getting them right...factory correct...right down to the last nut and bolt. So we can understand their desire to have their cars judged as not only a means to justify the end along with a pat on the back, but to learn where they may or may not have gone wrong and need to make improvements or corrections. I can see that by doing away with the points judging that many of the OR guys will simply see no reason to spend the countless hours detailing and money spent hauling their cars to attend. Those are the cars this show will likely be missing in the coming years. The people who are going purely for fun and friendship will still be there. Like mentioned earlier, I don't quite understand the purpose for points judging on modified cars either...don't really understand what there is to judge other than quality of build and appearance...so participant judging seems logical and adequate for those types of cars.

To you guys with the OR cars, there is a new place to take your cars for points judging...MCACN in Chicago. I took my 66 there last year to be points judged and I honestly felt like it was given a thorough and knowledgeable inspection..and yes, they even checked numbers. Not all of the judges were Chevelle only judges, but overall they were very knowledgeable. In addition, there were leading Chevelle experts at the event who were happy to visit with you and answer any questions you might have. Agreed, the judging was not perfect, it never is...no one knows everything about every car. But still, it was very thorough. Here all this time I thought my car was perfect :noway:, yet they found things I had never seen before and it gave me the opportunity to correct those items. It appears that this is now the ONLY place for those within the Chevelle community who wish to have their cars judged to do so. Bill, Al, Ernie, 70 Mike...you have all been there and have had your cars judged at both venues. I'm curious, with the MCC show no longer an option, do you feel the Chicago show fills that void and meets the needs of those of us who still wish to have our cars points judged? And regarding AACA, not to take anything away from that...you can count on any car with an AACA badge to be outstanding...but we all know that they are not that thorough when it comes down to absolute correctness. They are not even going to look to see if your car should be red and it's now blue or if you have a replacement block or transmission. Those are rather important details to some of us...

Just curious.... With many folks here lamenting the discontinuation of "judging" at Chevelle shows around the country, there seems to be a reasonable demand for the formalized picking of nits. So, for those of y'all who would like to see its continuation, why not pool your talents and host such a show? After producing thirteen Chevell-abrations, and being involved in countless other events, I've come to appreciate even more fully the old adage: "If it was easy, everyone would be doing it."

Staffing an event alone is a monstrous task, not to mention all the logistics and last minute decisions that take place "behind the scenes." And it's made doubly difficult if you're relying on volunteers because the budget doesn't allow for "hired help." You can take it to the bank that "motivating" people to do something they don't want to do (judging, trash pickup, parking, etc) is gonna be a hard row to hoe when they are "donating" their time in the first place. Certainly, by adding a judging element to the format you're compounding the complexity and the headcount needed to provide the "extras" we've all come to love and expect.

I think Donnie really articulated the REAL problem quite well when he addressed the bottom line, and that's getting a sufficient number of judges to ensure an adequate job is done. The lack of judges (especially knowledgeable, qualified ones) at car shows is not endemic only to Chevelle shows... it is prevalent, and becoming even more so, throughout the hobby. The cause? Well, I wish there was one thing to point at and say "There it is, let's fix it!" But actually the reasons can range from apathy and ambivalence to doubting one's abilities or an unwillingness to make a commitment. As you might expect, there are likely as many reasons and excuses as there are the number of people to make them.

So, without the needed number of judges, what's the outcome? Well, in all probability, the quality of the judging is likely to deteriorate, with all cars that are judged getting only a perfunctory eyeballing because you have less judges and less time to spend on each car. And if the judging is less than a 100% effort, why bother? The "points" and even the recognition become frivolous and superficial. Plus, as most of us know, regardless of how thoroughly judges expend their efforts to ensure a car is judged as fairly and completely as possible, there will always be the "whiners" who disagree with the judges' decisions. And really, who can blame judges for not wanting to "do their part" anymore, when their best efforts are often met with disdain and rudeness? I've witnessed it happening at too many "judged" shows, and it'll surely take a lot of the "fun" out of an otherwise outstanding event.

This topic opens up so many different avenues of discussion, however I've noticed one distinct trend here... And it's that most of those who seem to favor the abandonment of judging are involved in the promotion and production of events, or have more than a casual knowledge of what it takes to put one on. On the other hand, others seem to be critical of the decision without offering any real solutions. They drop their opinion in here, then walk away from the discussion. Those of you that have offered suggestions, however, get my applause and support. The suggestions seem reasonable, and after scrutiny and more discussion, may actually be workable solutions. Time will tell.

I agree, Well said Donnie!!!

Just got done reading all the comments in this thread and I have to say that the men and women of the MCC put on one heck of a show. I know that everyone appreciate's all the work that the members put in, to make this a great show.

I have also judged for the last 3 or 4 years and find it an honor to be allowed to judge these classics.

WORK ! Hell yes , but if it's something that you truly love it's work you enjoy.

Altho I can't attend the meetings (because of distance) I can assure everyone that this was probably not an easy decision for the members to make. I do know that every year it gets harder and harder to get " Judges" for the show.

Hopefully everyone can live with this change and maybe if more people "step up" it is a decision that can be reversed.


Hope to see everyone at the show this year !

Sam

Jacquie, I disagree, those folks take their cars to Chevellabration and clean, polish and detail them to the inth degree and it is participant judged. IF you really want to pick nits, do as she recommmended and take them to an AACA event, but come to Maryland and enjoy the visit with friends, that is what it should be about anyway. :D

Wouldnt there be a criteria for a potential judge to be considered then? Not everyone knows what to look for and what is original or not. I would think most people are very well versed in whats factory and what isnt. Or at least outside of thier perticular favorite model year or other then the year car they restored.

I have been active in putting on the MCC show almost since the beginning and have to point out that our show has been in constant evolution. By responding to the feedback from our show participants and members we have made changes to fix problems and provide a better overall experience.

For those that haven't been around the MCC show that long maybe a quick history lesson is in order... In the early years we had a one day show and would have 50 cars show up. Keep in mind that in the beginning the only cars that were judged on a points system were the OU and OR cars, while the rest were participant judged. People started asking that we change to a points system for the rest of the classes. In response we spent a lot of time coming up with a fair system for the rest of the classes (which continued to be refined over the years). As the years went on we had more cars show up which prompted to add more year breaks. Then we broke out the el caminos. Went to a two day show... Created a Crystal Class to try and level the playing field and still honor the best of the best.

In the last 10 years we went from 100 cars to over 200 cars in the show. However, the number of people who volunteer their time to put on the show hasn't increased at the same rate. While the overall membership of MCC has been around 250 members the core number of people who actively show up at meetings and help out at shows ranges from 25-50. I have spent many a weekend preping for the shows that we put on and I haven't had a car at the show in over 10 years. Simply put like in any organization there comes a time that even the most loyal and supportive members need a break from being overworked.

We have asked for help from the membership and while many have said they would commit to helping more times than not they just didn't come through. For at least the last 5 years we have pleaded for more help from the membership with judging (including a pre-show judging meeting) and the response has been minimal. In the end we end up shuffling judging groups around to cover additional classes to get the job done on show day. For the participants this has gone largely unnoticed (as it should).

I support the decision the club has made. If you are a member and have an opinion then feel free to voice it. Just remember that there is a lot more to running a club and putting on a show than simply showing up for a few hours of judging. If you want judging to return then I challenge you to simply step up.

And to those that have volunteered their time I say thank you! I personally hope that we have enough people to step up that we can return to some form of points judging. Just remember that we want everyone to be able to enjoy the show and not need a week to recover from it! :beers:

I am probably the one guy who has seen and understands every side and every valid point made above.

As the NCOA Chief Judge for 14 years, and an NCOA judge for an extra 5, I have seen most every possible judging situation, both good and bad. I have had to find qualified judges, spend countless hours developing a judging system that was fair and even handed, develop a staff to handle parking and logistics of the judging process, and assign a crew to tabulate and score the results, and create a slide show and announcements to go with the results. It is a daunting task, and no amount of description does it justice without personal experience of having to actually do it.
I have dealt with it all, from the late night candle burning to finish the deal, to the inevitable personality conflicts that arise from having to tell someone they either won, or lost.

That being said, I can still sit here and say, it was worth it. For without a goal to shoot for and attain, what is the point? I am aware that some of you are satisfied with just going to a show, and seeing old friends, talking about Chevelles for a few days, and grab a burger or two by the waterfront. I too enjoy all of that, but like many out there, think the Chevelle World will be poorer for not having a show with a judging component. For me, it would be as if the olympics would have said, "You know, this scoring of competitors is hard to do, we really have a lot of trouble finding people as judges, and the judging is really subjective and biased anyway, so next Olympics, all skiers, snowboarders, hockey players, and even you people who understand the game of curling, you just show up, and we are going to let the crowd vote on who won".

Now I am well aware that I am in the minority of that opinion. I don't expect everyone to share my interest in the scoring of fine automobiles. But there is more than just me. And we may be a small minority in numbers, but I think I can fairly state that the lions share of us are the ones who have cars that dazzles your eyes at a show. And a move like this, even though understandably brought on by what I read as frustration and a feeling of futility, will definitly cost you a few cars, never to show up again. And of course, they may be some of the best ones, even though some of the best ones still will come. You may not even notice the difference, and for every person you hear from, who will tell you straight up, "I will never come back.", there will be five or six you will not ever hear from, who you will never even find out about, who will not come just the same.

To sum it all up, the judging was a valuable part of your show. I am positive it brought you many cars over the years that otherwise, would not have come. Many times, when I was called and asked, where can I take my Chevelle to have a critically judged show, yours was on the top of the list of referrals. I knew many of the judges, many of them trained and bred in NCOA judging, with a points system that was a simpler version of our NCOA judging, but very good for its intended use as a regional show scoring system. I simply knew and trusted that if I sent someone their, they had a reasonable and fair outcome. That oviously now, will be gone, and I am sure that since I and many others valued it, that means the loss of it is a loss of value for your show. You may see it as a way to have more fun at your show. And I don't doubt for a minute that you had all the issues coming up with credible judges just like you said you did. But hard to solve problems call for creative solutions. Did you actively recruit new judges? I can tell you from first hand experience, a call in a newsletter for candidates is a sure fire loser to create any. A bit of arm twisting always does better. Were judging candidates limited to MCC members? Did you actively recruit show participants? Again, I have no knowledge of how many of these were tried and, and I am sure you ran into the same issues I always dealt with every year. Positive it was not easy, only necessary.

These days, those that promote a show well will continue to do well, though will probably be off the "high water mark" of a few years ago. Forgive me for the boat analigy, but when you rock that boat, you are sure to take on water. I hope that is not what you have done. I would hate to see this show suffer the fate of many I have gone to in the past. I still wish the show well, and will still come, heavy as my heart may be about this part of it. Should you reconsider at any point, I would be happy to offer advice and possibly even some help to get it back up and running. Good luck!!!!

Jeff Dotterer
Dated Components
Diamond Restored Judge

Jeff,

Many of us share the opinion you have as well. To answer a couple questions, no, judging candidates are not limited to MCC members only. Repeated requests for additional judges were always put over the PA in the morning before judging would begin. I can tell you I myself tried talking 5 people into helping us at the 2009 show and only 1 agreed no matter how much arm twisting I did. I really don't understand why some other Chevelle owners feel so intimidated about this, it's not really that big of a deal.
Making this change, as stated earlier was not the first choice, but was felt by the officers it was necessary. The reason being is the less people you have to judge as many classes as we have had, regardless of what anyone else has said, ends up spreading the help out too thin. When judging was to begin, we have had to pull people from other jobs (classifying, parking, trailer parking, etc.) to go judge which left voids in those other areas causing other problems that had to be dealt swiftly to keep everything flowing.
Another thing that was said...we have 240 active members and a core team of 40 doing everything....where are the other 200? If 50% of the members would pitch in and commit 1 weekend, it would be a breeze to do, unfortunately this is not the case. Realistically, we should not have to rely on non-members to run this show, but yet we do. The other thing I am just going to touch on is the fact there is a lot more to running a show of that caliber that participants. What many people don't see is what goes on after the show is over. Once many of the judges put the clip board down, pack up, and go home, they leave it all behind them, the officers don't. There is always things that come up that have to be dealt with from personality conflicts of people who didn't win but think they should have, others upset about how their car was judged, accusations of unfairness/favoritism, the list goes on. I'm not saying that this can't be dealt with in a proper manner, but when the same people are doing this for 10 years, it's starts to become a little fatiguing.
Now I will say that this change will be in effect for this year. Next year....is up in the air. It may revert, it may not. How many years can go by begging and pleading for help with little response?

Jeff,

I'd like to give you a call sometime and talk a little more whenever you might have a couple free minutes.

I have never been to the MCC show but as I can see from the 4 pages of posts, the Judging aspect is a hot topic. Perhaps there is a middle ground to satisfy all. It seems to me it is pretty simple, pay the top Judges for their time, travel and lodging. By this I don't mean you need to pay 48 Judges, you could do this with perhaps 5 guys. The best of the best would surfice. You don't need 4 guys looking at a 66 Chevelle when a Mike Crown could do it all. You also don't need 4 guys looking at a 70 Chevelle when a Chris White or Jeff Dotterer could do it all. Anyone who would opt for a point Judging on their car would do so for a fee, of perhaps 150/200, I don't think that's out of line. A real inspection, Diamond Certified or Camaro inspection can run 1500./2000.K. This is just a thought, but for a 25/30 show fee, I wouldn't expect a real inspection in the first place. Many guys work very hard to restore their cars to factory correct specs. If I were on the East Coast and had the chance to have my recently done car inspected by one of the best for 150/200 at a regional show, I'd be all over it. The entry fee for the MC&CN isn't cheap by any means but as everyone knows, you get what you pay for.

Mike,

You can't do that, that is simply not a feasible or realistic option. There is no way to keep something like that quiet for one. What do you think will happen when the other 40 people that are not getting compensated to judge find out?? It won't be good I can promise you that. Not to mention that in no way would the club ever pick up a tab like that.
The purpose of having 4 judges per car was to keep favoritism to a minimum not to mention that it takes at least 10-15 minutes to inspect each of the 4 areas of the car, especially pertaining to OR cars. Do you really think 1 person can spend 45 - 60 minutes per car when there are 12 cars in a class? I've been doing the 1970 OR class since 2002 and at times, with 4 of us judging 15 cars in a class one year took us 5 hours to do.
Also, I can pretty much guarantee that those select few individuals are going to want to go over a car in that amount of detail out on a hot field in 90 degree weather + humidity. For people that want that kind of inspection on a car, a car show is not the place to do it, just my personal opinion.
Then there is the fact that judging the OR/OU cars only will become a problem with the guys with modified cars that want theirs judged. If you tell them sorry, we're not judging your cars, you're going to piss off a whole lot more people and create even more tension that no one needs, rather than just judging all cars or none.

I also don't have a horse in this race but would just like to offer up some suggestions that come to mind FWIW as a compromise. 1. Points judging in the OU and OR classes only. 2. Require every entrant in those classes to be a judge in those classes but not in their own class. Any questions due to unfamiliarity with other than their own year/class could be answered by other judges. 3. The persons desiring to retain the points judging at this show get together and set up the format for judging, points system, awards, etc., and submit to MCC for approval.
Not the ideal situation perhaps but a compromise that could work?

I guess I will comment as I did attend the MCC show last year for the first time... I enjoyed the show very much and was amazed at the level of cars that were there. I did hear the call over the PA for judging assistance and was a little bit shocked by that thinking that would have already been in place before the show had begun.. No, I did not offer to help as this was only my second points show ever and my first just being a couple weeks before with the AACA venue.

I can see that there is alot of work in putting on this show or any show for that matter. I have only helped with one and getting everyone on the same page I know is very hard to do..

I am dissapointed to hear that the point judging is ending at the MCC show. As far as I know it is the only all Chevelle point judging in the US. Like somone else said earlier, in the thread.. It is nice to take a car somewhere where the car can be judged and know what they are looking at and tell you what your mistakes are so you can make improvements.. That was one of my goals of my restoration and, one that I feel that is paying off for me.

I think that Von's and some others here are very good ideas... I think that there should be a show somewhere in the ACES organazation that has a points class... If I could be of any assistance with helping with that, all you have to do is ask... Just my .02.

:beers:

HAH.. CONSIDER YOURSELVES ALL LUCKY.. I JUST TYPED OUT A NOVEL RESPONSE.. AND HIT THE SUBMIT BUTTON AND IT JAMMED OR SOMETHING.. BUT IT'S ALL GONE :confused:

Not going to retype the two pages, so I will just say.. Tom or anyone else.. associated with CLUB who wants to contact me for my ideas... feel free.. I am here.

Mike,
Click on your user CP and there is a personal notepad thats perfect for those long and drawn out responses. You don't lose them that way. :yes: I learned that from experience.


Rocky

I also don't have a horse in this race but would just like to offer up some suggestions that come to mind FWIW as a compromise. 1. Points judging in the OU and OR classes only. 2. Require every entrant in those classes to be a judge in those classes but not in their own class. Any questions due to unfamiliarity with other than their own year/class could be answered by other judges. 3. The persons desiring to retain the points judging at this show get together and set up the format for judging, points system, awards, etc., and submit to MCC for approval.
Not the ideal situation perhaps but a compromise that could work?

(The section in bold) is exactly what the Late Great Chevy Club does at all their regional and national meets. They have a judging system fairly well designed and driven by the judging sheet leaving less to the judges themselves. They also offered a really great judging guidelines course in the morning prior to the judges hitting the field. My group judged a half dozen cars together, it took a few hours.

Also, especially in the original classes, much of the work should be done at the time of classification so the judging can focus primarily on the quality of the car and the quality of the build. Master judges can be available when authenticity issues arrise, but this method removes the need to have (so called) experts on each year, make and model who often have their own twist on what's correct and what isn't which may or may not mesh well with everyone else's positions.

That being said, I can still sit here and say, it was worth it. For without a goal to shoot for and attain, what is the point? I am aware that some of you are satisfied with just going to a show, and seeing old friends, talking about Chevelles for a few days, and grab a burger or two by the waterfront. I too enjoy all of that, but like many out there, think the Chevelle World will be poorer for not having a show with a judging component. For me, it would be as if the olympics would have said, "You know, this scoring of competitors is hard to do, we really have a lot of trouble finding people as judges, and the judging is really subjective and biased anyway, so next Olympics, all skiers, snowboarders, hockey players, and even you people who understand the game of curling, you just show up, and we are going to let the crowd vote on who won".

Now I am well aware that I am in the minority of that opinion. I don't expect everyone to share my interest in the scoring of fine automobiles. But there is more than just me. And we may be a small minority in numbers, but I think I can fairly state that the lions share of us are the ones who have cars that dazzles your eyes at a show.

Jeff, Thank you for eloquently stating what myself and others have stated on this site for years. I enjoy seeing friends and partying BUT, I really enjoy the judging. Without real judging, it's just a cruise nite for me. Nothing wrong with that either but given the choice, I'll take the judged show. :thumbsup:

I also agree that this will hurt the show. It might not affect all classes but I'll bet the overall quality of the cars will drop. Maybe that's OK with the organizers. Maybe not. Time will tell.

Every judging group had a Senior Judge, I had a fresh face this past year, there was always someone to help if any judge had a question.

One of the reasons we went to judging all the class' is when we went to a two day format, some that could only come on Sunday felt that they didn't get a fair shake cause the ones(Participant judges) had already turned in their ballots. You can't please all the folks all the time and some folks you can never please.

I suggest everyone that would like to see points judging continue, email or call Tom, Donny or any one on the Executive Board with your suggestions, and don't forget to volunteer to judge.

To everyone....I am posting this on behalf of the MCC president since he is not registered here on Team Chevelle.


Hello, my name is Fred Gillis and I am the President of the Maryland Chevelle Club. Let me start by saying that we are not trying to get into an argument. We are just trying to inform people of our changes. I know a lot of you are disappointed about the club dropping the points judging, but let me tell you that no one is more disappointed then I am to have to go this route. This by far was the hardest decision I ever had to make. This decision was not decided by a few MCC members. We have a club meeting once a month and an officers meeting once a year to discuss our show and other matters in the club to see how we can top last year’s show, and sadly to say one of the biggest things is judging and show help. Every year for the past 6 years, we get 3 to 4 more judges to volunteer but then lose 6 or 7. So every year we fall further behind. You do the math.

Where was all the excitement for judging when we needed it? Yes, I know a lot of you have stepped up to the task, but you are just a handful, and I thank you very much for that. But for years we have emailed members, made phone calls, and yes, the DJ made announcements at the show for the last four years and nothing has worked. You cannot make people do something they do not want to do. I am glad to see a lot of you still want the points judging which gives me hope that our club, in the future can one day return to it. But until we have enough volunteered judges to judge each and every class, we will not judge any.

I also have to disagree with those of you that think the OR cars deserve judging over the other classes. I can name several cars that are not OR cars that are just as sweet. For example, Ed Pienta’s 67, Martin & Sharon Hepner’s 67, Sam & Malea Daughton’s 67, Dave Vrankin’s car, and this is just a few to mention. So where do you get off saying these guys do not deserve to have their cars judged? They have put in just as much time and money as anyone else when it comes to attention to detail & workmanship as you guys in the OR class. So to say that I think that is selfish. By the way, you guys and ladies that build these cars from the ground up know your car better then anyone else probably ever will, so you probably do not need a judging sheet to tell you what you already know.

Let me get to one of the other main reasons this was decided. As President of this great club, I get to see all the good and all the bad, and let me tell you that my first and main priority is this club and its members. So at the end of the day on Sunday when I see members at each others throats and tempers flaring that tells me that it is no longer fun. What that brings is members starting to distancing themselves from each other because they had a fall out, and then they start dropping out of the club. I will not stand by and let this happen. The show is supposed to be fun for all.

A good friend of mine Albert Galdi registered at the show last year as he always has done. He did not put down a class, so I contacted Albert to discuss putting him in a class because I wanted to make sure it was fair for him and he quoted me this “I don’t care. I just want to come and have fun”. So what is so wrong with going to a show just to have fun, show your car off, meet up with old friends, and make new ones as well? Remember it does not matter whether you come to our show or someone else’s show, you are already a winner for putting a smile on someone’s face while they stare at your car or it just brings back memories for someone. Then you have that person that takes thousands of pictures of your car because they want to build one just like yours. I can tell you it still makes my day when someone comes up to me and tells me I have a nice car. So to say you’re not coming to our show just because we will not judge your car, you are not only hurting the hobby but depriving other Chevelle enthusiasts from valuable information.

What really saddens me is that most of the people making negative comments are the same people that I see at others shows such as CB and the Northern Ohio show and these shows are also participant judged. What I would like to know is, what has the Maryland Chevelle Club done to you that you would take your fine quality show car to one of these other great shows, but not to our show because we are taking a well deserved break from points judging?

So is the Maryland Chevelle Club still going to put on one hell of a show?….. You’re damn right we are, and we will have a lot of fun, and still give away a lot of awards.

So if judging is the only reason you were coming to our show instead of showing off your sweet ride and have fun with great friends . . . then maybe our show is not for you.

If interested in seeing what participant judging with a twist is, then please visit our website at www.mdchevelleclub.com and go to our show section and read all about it.

I hope you give it chance and join us at our show.

Thank you for your time,
Fred Gillis
President
Maryland Chevelle Club

Tom, I think Fred missed the point on the modified car judging. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that judging modified cars is much more subjective and therefore more difficult to do and do fairly. Am I wrong?

Also, I'm curious....which classes are the hardest to get judges for?

Tom, I think Fred missed the point on the modified car judging. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that judging modified cars is much more subjective and therefore more difficult to do and do fairly. Am I wrong?

Also, I'm curious....which classes are the hardest to get judges for?

Mark, I disagree 100% with that. Modified cars are judged purely on quality of the build and I can state for a fact, some of the modified cars I have seen at the show will run with or above some of the OR cars in the quality department. The judges for the modified cars do not subject their opinion on a car when judging it, only on the quality of the workmanship and detail of the car.

My personal feeling is only judging OR/OU cars and not any of the other classes is more or less giving a big middle finger to the owner's of those cars who have put just as much time, effort, and money into them as the OR car owners and that is just not right. That to me would be a huge kick in the crotch and gives the "we're better than you" impression. The modified cars deserve just as much equal treatment that the OR cars get.

I think what some guys are looking for with this are certifications more so than being judged that the car is correct in every aspect. I personally do not feel that a regional event is the type of venue for this to take place and be coordinated by the hosting club. Now if it were a 3rd party independent aspect....that's a completely different subject.

As far as which classes are the most difficult to find judges for...the OR/OU classes. When we organize the teams of judges, we look for the person who, in our opinion, is the most qualified to handle a specific year(s), and appoint them the head of that team and supplement it with other judges that are well versed in that same class. The only problem with that is, sometimes those persons may have a car registered in that class which makes them ineligible to judge that class. Organizing judging teams is not as easy as some folks may think. The teams are thought out and put together well before the show, but there is always the situation where someone may not show up, back out, etc. and you can't force someone to do something they don't want to do.

I just want to add my two cents...

I've attended 4 or 5 MCC shows over the years. Never once have I actually registered, entered, or displayed a car at this ACES regional show so the points judging doesn't mean a hill of beans to me on a personal level.
I simply attend to enjoy the cars displayed, the beautiful venue, and the good friends I've come to know there.
And I will continue to do so...

"To everyone....I am posting this on behalf of the MCC president since he is not registered here on Team Chevelle"

I'm gonna get flamed for this but quite frankly I really don't care.

I had planned on attending the Maryland Aces show this year as one of my goals is to attend all the regionals.

After reading all the posts in this thread, my initial reaction was, "What a bunch of narrow minded jerks".

My initial reaction is disgust.

Arrogance is the only word I know of that defines you guys. (I'm just a uneducated hillbilly and I have a limited vocabulary.)

I have been active in Rotary, Jaycees, and many other orginizations, some political, and they are all the same....... as Tom and a few others have stated a few do all the work and the rest sit back and B*tch.

That has been my experience in ALL, (No Exception) Volunteer orginizations.

You guys that want points judged shows...... Get off your butts and put the Dang show on. All 10 of you can show up and have a good time.

The rest of us that live in the real world and have limited finances, build what we can afford to build.

You guys do fullfill a need. I support that. If that is what satisfies you have at it. Stop stuffing it down our throats! The world does not evolve around your little world of perfection. The "Majority" of us Chevelle guys actually "Drive" our cars and enjoy them.

I've been around this stuff for a long time, but, If I was a new guy coming into this hobby, and I read some of the things in this post, I would have serious reservations about getting into it. You guys don't put a very brite lite on your position. (go back and read your posts again) Really heavy Whining and it's all about me in them.

I'm not sure if I will be at the MCC show this year. I attend car shows for the fun and enjoyment of being around other gearheads. This thread certainly has raised some doubt's in my mind.

Ok, I feel better now.

"To everyone....I am posting this on behalf of the MCC president since he is not registered here on Team Chevelle"

I'm gonna get flamed for this but quite frankly I really don't care.

I had planned on attending the Maryland Aces show this year as one of my goals is to attend all the regionals.

After reading all the posts in this thread, my initial reaction was, "What a bunch of narrow minded jerks".

My initial reaction is disgust.

Arrogance is the only word I know of that defines you guys. (I'm just a uneducated hillbilly and I have a limited vocabulary.)

I have been active in Rotary, Jaycees, and many other orginizations, some political, and they are all the same....... as Tom and a few others have stated a few do all the work and the rest sit back and B*tch.

That has been my experience in ALL, (No Exception) Volunteer orginizations.

You guys that want points judged shows...... Get off your butts and put the Dang show on. All 10 of you can show up and have a good time.

The rest of us that live in the real world and have limited finances, build what we can afford to build.

You guys do fullfill a need. I support that. If that is what satisfies you have at it. Stop stuffing it down our throats! The world does not evolve around your little world of perfection. The "Majority" of us Chevelle guys actually "Drive" our cars and enjoy them.

I've been around this stuff for a long time, but, If I was a new guy coming into this hobby, and I read some of the things in this post, I would have serious reservations about getting into it. You guys don't put a very brite lite on your position. (go back and read your posts again) Really heavy Whining and it's all about me in them.

Ok, I feel better now.
AMEN, build it like ya want it, shows are for non - drivers. Trailer Queens are OK, but not much fun!!

Again, I must say I appreciate the judges review of my car from last years MCC show and I am constantly looking at it to see what I need to do next. Now, my OR is a fun driver, I have been driving it since I was 15 and will continue to do so.

Last year we were on I-95 between Baltimore and Northeast when my windshield was tapped by a rock thrown up by a car in front of me, nothing I could do except grin and bear it. Not long after I looked in my rear view and a 70 SS was fast approaching, he and I waved and I hopped in behind him with my 72 Malibu. We ran 80+ up I-95, I lost him at the toll booth because he had a speed pass, I had to pay cash. I caught up to him in Northeast.

At the registration desk he and I met, he asked what I had in mine and I said 350 2bbl, he was shocked and surprised. We talked and laughed. That is what a car show is all about.

I posted earlier on this subject and after reading the posts so far( some negative,some positive) that my hat is off to all of those who do these shows everywhere.I'm sure that it takes ALOT of time,people,money, planing,volunteers,sponsors,etc. to have it happen successfully.Granted there is always going to be a few hick-ups along the way by something falling through,people not showing up for the task or an angry participant. Again IMHO, the MCC folks put on one of the best show there is :thumbsup:.My wife and I feel the same on this.Well run,well organized,lots of fun,vendors,food,swap meet,and people that make you feel as if you have been their friend for years.
I would like to put my ideas here for thought.

1)I like the fact that Chuck Hansen (Prez of ACES)chooses "BEST-in-Show".He takes his time to attend this event purely for the love of it.

2)Any car picked for a speciality award (Best Engine,Best Interior,Best Paint,Etc.) to be in the Crystal Class the next year AND the owner of that car be the judge for THAT speciality award.

3)Points Judging,Have who ever wants this to pay a separate fee ($100.00?) to have the car judged by a small group of qualified experts in that field.This could generate some extra $$$ for MCC.I'm sure some people would not mind if thats what they want.

4)Class judging,done by participants Not in that class and award the "Top 3"

As Bill said, I attend these shows to see friends I've made over the years and to see the cars. Most of the guys complaining about not being judged have been attending this show for years. Their car is exactly like it was last year and the years before that. Nothing has been changed so they should score the same as in the previous shows. Do you attend the show JUST to win another trophy? I could care less if I ever win a trophy. It seems like the guys that say they won't be back because of not being judged are only in this hobby for the awards they get. Just My Opinion
James

I also do not have a dog in this fight, but am well aware of the logistics of putting on such an event for about six years at the Northern Chevelle Gathering in Niagara Falls. Our CanAm Chevelle Club is much more widespread than the Maryland Club and we encountered all the same problems with regard to help. We never did formal or points judging, just participant judging from day one. The only exception was the picking of the special awards, but even that was not done on a points basis.

We received quite a bit of flack the year we decided to drop “classes” and have everybody just park where they want. Our awards have always just said “Favourite”, even when we did have classes. If my memory serves me right that is also how CB is done, albeit I believe they still have classes.

Dropping the classes meant there were fewer and fewer of the “top quality” cars showing up each year, which in itself was unfortunate. However, the people that did show up really just wanted to have a get together, meet fellow hobbyists and have some fun. That is the people our Club has tried to cater to. And from the Club standpoint, dropping the classes turned out to be the best thing for the fewer and fewer volunteers that became available. The Executive and working Members actually had a little time to catch their breath every once in a while. And, to be honest, I think the participants that continued to show up actually had more fun. Numbers are definitely down since the beginning, but the appreciation level has not diminished.

I haven’t made it to the Maryland Show for a while, but was a regular for about five years. I went to support the Club and hook up with people you don’t get a chance to see that often. Not once did I ask for my judging sheet as it really didn’t matter to me as I had a good idea where my car was at. The car did receive an award each year, including one Crystal, which was always nice. However, that was really secondary to the fact we were having fun. There was always that “chain pulling” and I probably received much more than I gave out. Hey, I consider those people friends to this day.

Fred and his Club have had a very hard decision to make here. Some will be happy, while others will be disappointed. That is just human nature. If my circumstances change, and I can again get down to their show, I will gladly accept whatever format they present.

Let me conclude my rambling by saying I really see the need for both “Concours” and ”Fun” events for our Chevelles. However, I don’t see them co-habiting at one particular venue. I know a lot of owners that fall into one category or the other, some are comfortable in doing both. I guess what we really need is somebody to “take the bull by the horns” and get something going on the judging side. In my opinion it would have to be a top notch setup to really add some credibility to the process. For example, to have a car score 998 points out of a 1000 at Harry’s Annual Car Bonanza doesn’t cut it in my opinion. Probably needs to be some kind of Nationally recognized process which will obviously take time for the recognition to evolve.

There is room in our hobby for everyone and every concept, it just may not be accomplished at the same event.

"To everyone....I am posting this on behalf of the MCC president since he is not registered here on Team Chevelle"

I'm gonna get flamed for this but quite frankly I really don't care.

I had planned on attending the Maryland Aces show this year as one of my goals is to attend all the regionals.

After reading all the posts in this thread, my initial reaction was, "What a bunch of narrow minded jerks".

My initial reaction is disgust.

Arrogance is the only word I know of that defines you guys. (I'm just a uneducated hillbilly and I have a limited vocabulary.)

I have been active in Rotary, Jaycees, and many other orginizations, some political, and they are all the same....... as Tom and a few others have stated a few do all the work and the rest sit back and B*tch.

That has been my experience in ALL, (No Exception) Volunteer orginizations.

You guys that want points judged shows...... Get off your butts and put the Dang show on. All 10 of you can show up and have a good time.

The rest of us that live in the real world and have limited finances, build what we can afford to build.

You guys do fullfill a need. I support that. If that is what satisfies you have at it. Stop stuffing it down our throats! The world does not evolve around your little world of perfection. The "Majority" of us Chevelle guys actually "Drive" our cars and enjoy them.

I've been around this stuff for a long time, but, If I was a new guy coming into this hobby, and I read some of the things in this post, I would have serious reservations about getting into it. You guys don't put a very brite lite on your position. (go back and read your posts again) Really heavy Whining and it's all about me in them.

I'm not sure if I will be at the MCC show this year. I attend car shows for the fun and enjoyment of being around other gearheads. This thread certainly has raised some doubt's in my mind.

Ok, I feel better now.

Mike, The Maryland show has been point-judged for many years and has had great attendance. Obviously, the formula has worked. They are not discontinuing it because the participants don't want it. Rather, it is because they are having trouble judging it effectively. That's fine. There are some people that are disappointed by this. With a few exceptions, I think most of the discussion here has been positive and not b*tching....as you described it. :beers:

I also do not have a dog in this fight,

I guess what we really need is somebody to “take the bull by the horns” and get something going on the judging side. In my opinion it would have to be a top notch setup to really add some credibility to the process. For example, to have a car score 998 points out of a 1000 at Harry’s Annual Car Bonanza doesn’t cut it in my opinion. Probably needs to be some kind of Nationally recognized process which will obviously take time for the recognition to evolve.

Don makes an important point:

" Probably needs to be some kind of Nationally recognized process which will obviously take time for the recognition to evolve."

It will take a lot of time and work to develop the judging guidelines, which then need to be printed and made available. Printing will cost money, judges have to be trained.

This would best be handled by a national organization (ACES, NCOA,...) but the first thing has to be people who will step up and contribute their time.

If you want to good, working, equitable judging system the people who want it have to get involved.

There are a number of highly qualified judges on this forum. They judge for another (GM car) car club and have been through multiple judging classes in a well developed judging system. They obviously also have Chevelles. They may be willing to participate in developing a system and working as Lead Judges in events. Find them and ask.

It is possible to do, but again, it will not happen without Chevelle owners who are willing to spend their time to help judge as well as do other things necessary to make judging meets work.

The decision by the Maryland organization is an example of the difficulty in getting people to participate in the work, not just show up for the show.

I have gone to this show for several year spectating, looking at the talent God has Blessed you guys/gals with, to see so many cars originals, original restored, modified etc, play ground for my kids to play on, good food, the sound of the big speed boats, can't wait until June to attend and finally to bring a car! As for point judging we all have our hot buttons, the competitive edge, so it is important to some, but my reward comes when someone gives me thumps up or ask questions about the car.
I don't know how to judge cars classes, but I sure would help with parking.

As was said before, you want points judging, go to the AACA, they have shows all over the place. Yes, I know some of the folks here already do that, just come to Md and visit friends, have a bite to eat, take a cruise, get some better parts for you Chevelle and sit in the shade and shoot the breeze.

As was said before, you want points judging, go to the AACA, they have shows all over the place. Yes, I know some of the folks here already do that, just come to Md and visit friends, have a bite to eat, take a cruise, get some better parts for you Chevelle and sit in the shade and shoot the breeze.

Ultimately, That's what it's all about :thumbsup:

Rocky

Don makes an important point:

" Probably needs to be some kind of Nationally recognized process which will obviously take time for the recognition to evolve."


As I was reading through this, it was my thought also. I guess there aren't enough people that care about it anymore but I would love to judge.

I have only been to the Northern Ohio and Chevellabration events and I have a really good time there. I do wish those cars that want to be points judged could be in a different area than the rest of us. The rest of us that don't care or don't have the right flat black or semi-gloss black under the hood can be judge by our peers. I am just talking about the original type cars. Date codes and right shades of colors don't really make a difference to a guy with a tubbed out car with two dominators and a huffer sticking out of the hood. The regular participants can judge those just as well as the rest of the cars.

I see there are people here that say they would volunteer to do the 70 Chevelles and someone would do the 66's and so forth. I think a lot of those points car guys would not mind to have some of these experts point judge their car even if it is not official during the show maybe that would help legitimize these Chevelle owner's cars a little bit more before they go to the Chicago style show.

Maybe one of the days of the show you can park all these points cars according to years and such and let them critique themselves. I don't think it would be too hard to accomodate the points cars as we call them. That way you can hopefully satisfy these original type cars that have there original stuff. Most of us are just happy to be at a regional show and don't even worry about a top 3 or something.

I just want to add my two cents to an already long thread. I attended this show about three years ago. I am hoping to go this year but was unable to attend the last two years because of other commitments. I really enjoyed the show and had my almost orginal 71 SS454 judged. I thought the results were very fair which gave me a better idea of what needed corrected. My Chevelle is a driver and was driven to North Carolina for a Dale Earnhart Chevelle show held at his former race shop many years ago. What a trill that was a really neat experience. I am hoping to attend this years Maryland show on Sunday. If I could go on Saturday I would have signed up for it to be judged. As mentioned I thought the judges did an excellant job and I certainly appreciated all their efforts. I think it is a shame they can not continue to offer judging however I do understand it is hard to get the help and as ususal it is the same folks over and over. Again thank you for all your dedication and hard work hope to see many of you this year on Sunday. Oh yea I almost forgot it is a beautiful location with very good crab cakes. Take care everyone and keep driving those Chevies.

As I was reading through this, it was my thought also. I guess there aren't enough people that care about it anymore but I would love to judge.


If you join the AACA, you can eventually be a judge, they have classes at some of the events www.aaca.org (http://www.aaca.org) IIRC.