For all who may be interested, I completed the install a couple of days ago and have 3 pictures up here. (http://members.cox.net/elcaminoguy/suspension.htm)

It's all pretty straight forward. Some of you may notice that the curvature of the center link is opposite that of the original. This is the correct way to install (confirmed by Howe) and allows the tie rods to have a straighter shot at the steering knuckle. It also allows for easier removal of the tie rods, as they no longer pull out towards the engine crossmember. I haven't had any time to play around with it, but adjusting it is very simple and does not require pulling the stud out of the pittman or idler. I will put my sway bar in this weekend to double check the fitment, but from what I can tell, it will fit just fine. Very cool piece!


I thought there may be some people on the board that are doing/have done the B/F-body spindle swap and would find this useful.

Ryan

Ryan, i like that look. i also have the fat man lower arms, mine are the old style. its going on my 65 2 dr wagon. definitely interested in the center link. keep pics and info coming. thanks. Rob

Ryan,
Did you have to replace any of the other steering parts? Or does it work with the stock stuff.
Thanks for the update.
Dan

I didn't have to change any of the other steering stuff, except for the outer tie rods for the B-body swap. Howe lists it as a "stock replacement" part.

Ryan

Very cool. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

It would be interesting to see how much of the bumpsteer that you can dial out. What is the distance between the inner tie rod mounts?

R.J.

R.J., I ordered mine yesterday, I will post bumpsteer results with the tall spindle conversion and adjustable outer tie rods as well when it is all together. :D

Cool Dennis.

The reason that I asked the distance between the inner mounts is because I believe that there are two reasons for the bump steer tow out. Fisrt the outer tie rod end is to low, and because the tie rod assembly is to long. So I wondered if the holes are wider than the stock CL. Again this is only my guess, but I think I am close.

R.J.

BTW I haven't posted over at P-T.com yet because I screwed up my signup and I can't post yet. Soon I hope. :D

R.J.,

I'd measure for you now, but the car is at my parent's house. I'll get some measurements for you this weekend if Dennis doesn't beat me to it.

Ryan

No hurry. Thanks.

R.J., I have the length issue resolved as well as the height. By using the Howe centerlink and these tie rods- tie rods (http://elcaminocentral.com/users/dennis68/tierod.jpg)

I will be able to adjust overall length and height at both ends.
BTW, I can replace the adjusting sleeve with anything from about 5" to 11" for a couple of bucks, if the one I have now is too long, I'll just order a size down.

The tie rods in the pic are 17.5" center of ball stud to center of ball stud. Mine on my ride right now are 18".

Ahhh, I think you mean the distance from centerlink opening for the ball stud to the spindle mount is too great-I see. Having some lateral adjustment would be nice-hmmm, I bet you could grind the opening and place some offset bushings in there to correct that, we'll see.

Interesting. Can you tell me how much you can move the inner tie rods down compared to a stock drag link.

The only thing that concerns me is that I believe the tie rods should always have the spindle end ahead of the inner end to provide the proper Ackerman angle when turning. In other words, lines drawn through the tie rods should form a V somewhere behind the drag link. FYI, Ackerman is the difference in the amount the front wheels turn and you always want the inner wheel turning more than the outer wheel so they both track equally in the corner. I'm not a suspension expert but I know having the outer ends of the spindles ahead of the inners is a good thing and the other way around is bad.

I take it that link can't be put on the other way around because it has more offset than the stock link? It sure looks like it does.

I took a look at my stock linkage and it sure looks like the inner tie rod ends are in about the same location in/out as the stock one. If they moved, it was not by very much.

Peter

Peter, you are correct as far as the definition but a little fuzzy on how it affects handling. High Ackerman is a good thing, Fox chassis guys are looking to put 50-100% Ackerman in their builds. Moving the outer tie rod closer to the lower ball joint increases Ackerman. The inner tie rod adjustment is not done at the joint itself, it is actually shims between the pitman arm and idler arm so it lowers the whole center link down. I got a great site for Ackerman and bump steer. Longacre racing (http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=13)

I measured the stock centerlink last night. The overall length is 24" and the tie rod mounts are 15.250" and lastly the drivers tie rod mount is 3" from the steering box mount. And all of the measurements are Center to Center.

I was told by Katz over at P-T to take a piece of angle iron and mount it to the stock CL and mill a long slot in it to mount the inner tierod. This way you can continue to adjust the inner mount point while measuring the bumpsteer. Once you find the best length then you just have to measure the distance from the tierod to the CL of the chassis. That is the easy part. Then you need to come up with a center link that is that width.

To bad they don't make one for a '66, :( .

How much did it cost?

Ryan,

Looking good!

I know this is OT, but I did notice one thing that is going to be difficult to overcome. You didn't put your engine frame brackets back on prior to putting the lower control arms in. graemlins/angry.gif Without being able to go through that hole it is next to impossible to put the mounts back on! graemlins/clonk.gif

Good luck!

Mike

Originally posted by MarkM:
To bad they don't make one for a '66, :( .

How much did it cost? Mark,
I could be wrong but I think the only difference between 66 and the later cars is the inner tie rods, to convert the center link.
Can someone else confirm that?
Dan

The Howe centerlink runs about 180.00. The tie rod assemblies I am running with the adjustable outer ends and spherical bearings runs about 40.00 per side-that includes inner, outer, adjusting sleeve, and all the hardware for the bearing ends.

I beleive the centerlink would work on a 2nd gen A body with the correct inner ends.

Originally posted by Texas Mike:
Ryan,

Looking good!

I know this is OT, but I did notice one thing that is going to be difficult to overcome. You didn't put your engine frame brackets back on prior to putting the lower control arms in. graemlins/angry.gif Without being able to go through that hole it is next to impossible to put the mounts back on! graemlins/clonk.gif

Mike Thanks Mike! I did forget to put them back on before I hung the suspension. But..... check it out!

Engine's In! (http://members.cox.net/elcaminoguy/engine.htm)

I managed to get them in, and I only dropped a socket into the crossmember once :D

I'm glad there's interest in this centerlink - keep asking questions!

Ryan

Originally posted by dennis68:
Moving the outer tie rod closer to the lower ball joint increases Ackerman. According to Longacre Ackerman Effect page having the tie rods with the outer end ahead of the inner creates more Ackerman.

If you shorten the left inner steering arm on a circle track car you create more Ackerman when turning left but not when turning right.

Now, how much bump steer adjustment is available with that link??

Ryan, here's a test to try. Turn the wheels almost to the stop and see if the inner looks to be turned more than the outer. I know with the stock link the inner turns a bunch more than the outer.

Peter

denis, did you get those tie rods from speedwaymotors?

Yep-they are the greatest folks to deal with. I have bought LOTS of parts over the years and they are by far the best post sale customer service anywhere.

Yeah, I've bought a few things from them. Hard to beat their prices.

I like what you're doing with your front suspension. Pretty much what I have in mind for mine. Looking forward to seeing the bumpsteer results.

I just need to find out if the Howe CL will work for a '66.

Originally posted by airrj:
What is the distance between the inner tie rod mounts?

R.J. R.J. - This is a rough measurement, but I got 15 7/16" from inner mount to inner mount. I didn't have any time to take any other measurements, had to run around town all day for parts :mad:

Let me know if I can do more!

Ryan

Hey,
I just wanted to bring this back up... Does anyone know what all would be needed to put this on my 67. I have the C5 brakes and b-body spindles ready and I am preparing to tackle the front end soon and was needing some more guideance on the adjustable center link. I have never tackled a front end rebuild of this magnitude and money is tight so I need to buy the right parts close to the first time.:) Would I use a 68-up idler or a 67? Tie rods?
Caleb

Glad to see that the zz4 has found itself a nice new home. Keep us updated on the project.

WOW that centerlink is sweet! How much do those go for?

Dennis, do you know what the top to bottom ball joint mount measurement of the B-body spindle is. Just curious, I'm trying to plan my suspension design and you look like you have the right ideas on a couple things.

Hey, find a job yet? I was looking the papers this weekend, move out to CA-there were quite a few ads for mech engineering(unfortunatley not in the auto industry).

The Howe link runs about 170.00 (I know somebody who has a brand new one for sale, hint-hint)

You want to know how far apart the ball joints are? I will measure again tomorrow, I posted that intel somewhere around here before but I don't remember where.

Found the link to the info requested check it (http://www.chevelles.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/7/8237.html?)

Originally posted by gchandler:
Glad to see that the zz4 has found itself a nice new home. Keep us updated on the project. Thanks, Geoff. It's got an awesome black powdercoated TPI injection setup on top now, too. I can't wait to fire it up - it's been way too long!

Thanks dennis I'm trying to get all the info I can to start designing my suspension. are you going to be at SEMA, I would like to talk to you about what you did.

I wish--not this year. Too many obligations. I already made plans for next year though.