I'm trying to find out how long the power train warranty lasted for new 1970 Chevelles. Talking with George Zapora he believed it was 2 years but wasn't sure. I thought it was longer than that. I'm trying to determine whether the 3999289 4 bolt main block in my LS6 car was a warranty replacement or an over the counter purchase. It's painted black and has no stampings on the pad in front of the passenger cylinder head and appears to have the factory Tonawanda broach marks. The casting date is May 5, 1973. The heads, intake, water pump, carb, etc. are all original to the car. The only non original items to the engine appear to be the block, and valve covers(vintage Mickey Thompson finned covers currently). Thanks for any info.

i belive it was 12 month 12 thousand miles at least thats what my nova had in 1974

Look in the little half moon area above the timing chain cover, see if anything is stamped there....

Thanks Dave. Unfortunately the car is stored for the winter and I probably can't get to it to check. When spring comes I'll check that and I'm going to remove the alternator to get a good pic of the pad. I'll post it here for the more experienced to judge. As I've said before this is my first Chevelle so I want to make sure I'm not wrong about the block not being decked. When I checked the broach marks they appeared to me to be straight not "swirled" which you would expect if a machine shop had decked it. I've read on the site here 1970 was the last year for the 5 year/50000 mile warranty. If this is the case then it's a good possibility the block is a warranty replacement decked or not. I sent a message to Jeff Dotterer asking his insight because I thought he indicated in a post a couple of years back that all 3963512, 3999289, 14015445, 361989 blocks regardless of final configuration, should be stamped and that he hadn't seen one without either an original stamp, "CE" stamping, or a crate engine stamping such as XAA, XCH, etc. But I maybe wrong that it was Jeff who said that so I'm checking with him directly. It will be interesting when I drop the pan to see what it has for internals. The car itself has less than 60,000 miles and hasn't been on the road for about 25 years so odds are the block was under warranty when changed. Especially as it has the rare 4 bolt main 3999289 block which parts books suggest was used as a "CE" warranty block. :confused::confused::confused:

Coincidently there is a guy who has a 4-bolt H-17-73 cast 3999289 block listed in the classifieds and on Ebay(Item #330404038522) that also has factory broach marks and no stamping. He claims factory bore so it's unlikely it would have been decked but not bored.

Sometimes I wonder if you are over thinking all of this ;) :D

The original shortblock is gone.Be happy you have an LS6 car that was shipped to Canada and still has most of the original components :cool:

I'm not "over thinking" anything. It's the middle of the winter here in northern Ontario and I can't work on the car. I've been diagnosed with two badly herniated discs so I'm sitting at home forced into unemployment with nothing to do. So whats wrong with wanting to document the accurate history of my car? Whats wrong with adding to the info on these cars? Many knowledgeable people on this site didn't even know 3999289 cast blocks could be 4 bolt mains until recently when guys like myself started to ask questions about there blocks. In the winter things slow down on the site so this is something to discuss and debate. I really don't understand you questioning my wanting to find out if it's a warranty block or not?? Isn't one of the points of this site and our hobby to expand our knowledge on how these cars were built?? Is it wrong to want to accurately represent my car to others who ask me it's history at car shows?? Besides, if it's an over the counter block I can modify it if I want to without wrecking the integrity of the cars history. As I've said in the past I plan to drive this car as I have the last two summers. I have also stated that I would like to pull the numbers matching 3:31 12 bolt and M22 so I can put in 3:73's and a super case M22 and not worry about wrecking the original parts. If the block is an over the counter unit I can remove the original parts and store them for safety's sake then bore and stroke it to a 496, put on the parts to replicate a Baldwin/Motion 454 setup with the Offy dual quad 360 degree intake, headers, etc. and unleash the potential of the motor instead of choking it with the factory intake, cast iron manifolds, factory ignition, etc.

According to My 70 Protecto Plate folder they had 12 month 12,000 mile warranty for the whole car and a 5 year 50,000 mile powertrain warranty.

Pheadrus, post a pic or two of the car when you can. Love for other people to share what they have. Good luck in your research.

Steve,
Can't you go to the Transportation Ministry and track down the previous owners?

CE or XAA suffix makes no difference in the cars "integrity" since the original is long gone.
Besides,its pretty easy to confirm what the motor is instead of speculating about it.
Either the numbers are on the pad behind the alternator or on the tab above the timing cover.
Also,You are not going to "choke" the motor with all of the correct stuff...there are quite a few LS6 cars than run in the mid/lower 12's with all the factory smog,intake,etc. intact.
While you might not plan to race it,a car that is capable of mid/low12 second performance is an eye opener on the street unless you are used to quicker stuff.


Good luck with your research..and I think the Transportation Ministry is your best bet :thumbsup:

Not positive on the factory warrenty, But when I picked up my ordered LS-5 / M-22 in Feb. of 70 at Sahli Cheverolet in Beaver Falls, Pa. I signed a paper that stated. They would replace or repair, Any item in the driveline just one time and no more.
I am not sure if this was a Dealer thing or a G.M. deal. When I did the frame off in the 90s the only thing that showed ware was the M-22 was jumping out of gear and the splines on both axels had a slight twist on the ends.
Other than that the driveline was A-OK. Then again my LS-5 sat in a horse barn from 1974 untill 1989. When I parked it in late 74 the engine was fouling 2 plugs and it would not stay in gear when you would lift off the pedal. Thats why I still have it. Try and sell a 454 in 1974 in the middle of the world GAS crunch, With a bad engine miss and a bad 4 speed. It worked out well, I still have it with the org. engine and tranny.
Bob

Thanks for the responses guys. I have the buyer’s package from the Ministry of Transportation. I know the cars history back to early 1973. From my GM of Canada docs I know the car was originally sold in a small mill town on the Canada/US border called Fort Frances, Ontario about 3.5 hours West of me (Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada). The population there today is about 8-10,000. I think back then maybe 5-6000 so it’s unusual I think that it was sold there. The first two years are unknown right now. The M.T.O only goes back to 73 as far as I know. It lists the first owner as registering it February 21, 1973 in Schreiber, Ontario (about 2.5 hours East of me). He sold it to his brother on April 23, 1980. The guy I got it from bought it from the second brother in approximately March of 1989. The only reason the second brother sold it to the last owner was his soon to be wife said it had to go before they got married to pay bills. He was pissed when he sold it and still is now especially since there worth $$$. That’s why I haven't been able to get info from the brothers yet. He wouldn’t tell the previous owner anything either. Apparently the first owner/brother was a dealer mechanic and somehow he got to keep the original block after the 3999289 block was put in. He rebuilt the motor and sold to a drag racer in my town. I've been trying to track it but haven't been able to find it yet. After 20-30 years it's unlikely it hasn't been rebuilt and decked and therefore lost. The previous owner garaged it for about 20 years and only sold it to me because his wife had cancer and he needed the cash to pay bills. She passed away a few months later and I offered the car back to him for what I paid him. He’s been a family friend for decades and told me to restore it and enjoy it. In fact he dated my mom’s twin sister as a teenager and his brother helped carry my grandfather’s casket 30 years ago!! He’s a great guy and apparently has the protect-o-plate for it but hasn’t found it yet. I’m not pushing him about it seeing as his wife just passed along with his father in the last year. Plus I trust him completely. Since I bought the car he’s given me free with the car, a 70 Malibu body, mint frame, a set of mint SS fenders, complete mint doors, NOS full door skins, NOS inner and outer wheel wells, a spare LS6 carb, NOS fuel pump, complete factory trunk floor, brand new complete Ivory interior set, set of mint quarters, and other stuff I’m forgetting!!! So I know he’ll get the p-o-p as soon as he finds it.
The original equipment obviously works but we all know the low rise factory intake and exhaust manifolds hold these motors back. I’m going to try and post pics but I have 28.8 dial-up because I live in the country and can’t get high speed internet. There’s a small pic of me and the car in my profile. Hope this answers most of the questions and shoot me an e-mail if you have more questions.
Steve. :thumbsup:

Here's some more pics. :D

Thanks for the pictures. Hope all goes well for you.

Steve,
You may have slightly misread what I previously posted. Either that, or I never clarified the non-stamped block due to the way it was originally sold.

I do believe no unstamped blocks were used for warranty purposes. If you look in an original parts book, no part numbers are there for a bare block, only for partial engine assemblies, and for fitted blocks (blocks with pistons, pins and rings only). I actually have an Aug-69 #512 cast NOS fitted block which has a CE code on the deck. Now I do believe you could get an NOS bare block, but it was sold through the high-performance catalog, and that one probably came bare with nothing on the deck, and was sold mostly to racers. Chevrolet would not use this one for warranty. Big blocks were "select fit" engines, which means that the bore was size was measured with a Sheffield Air Guage, and a corresponding number stamped on the oil pan rail at each cylinder to ID the size. Each number more was .0005, or 1/2 thousandth different the smaller number. This was done to perfectly size the piston to the bore size. Oviously it could not be done in the field by the mechanic. Very few dealerships had the machinery to size the bore to the pistons, or the mechanics with the ability to do that. Doing it this way saved time to send out to the machine shop, and usually, pistons on blown engine would be junk anyway. Whole idea was to not have it come apart again.

Far as I am concerned, most engines were ordered as fitted blocks, or partial engine assy,(shortblock), unless you needed the whole thing due to cracked head or other problems. Then you could order a complete assembly, which came with a stamped suffix code. We have even seen a few #289 Castings with the 1970 CRR and CRV suffix on them casting dated sometime in 1972. But if you wanted to order a bare block, you could get it, but your parts man had to know that it was in his high perf parts catalog, and was sold mostly to racers that were going to fit their own high-perf pistons.
I doubt very much if you block was warrantied for this reason. Just made no sense for a dealership to do it that way, and from what I remember from what my father, a Chevrolet wrench at the time, told me, they had some of this kind of stuff approved from someone from the zone office anyway,(they had a factory rep that came around) and he was likely to tell them which one to use. Little chance he is going to suggest a bare block. Pistons were also not available in select fit sizes, but instead were Std, .001, .010, .020, and .030 oversize. Can you see how this would make life difficult? Way easier to just order the CE suffix fitted block for warranty.

And I agree with other posters, the car is worth no more with a warranty block of any kind, than any other block. The one that adds value is the original born-with block which is VIN stamped to the car, and to a much lesser degree, a replacement block with the correct suffix, within the correct timeframe of production. Warranty or CE blocks, in my opinion, do not increase the value of the car. Blocks replaced under warranty cannot be told from any other CE block. Many people mistakenly believe that all CE blocks were put in under warranty, this is also false. It was simply a way to identify that particular engine assembly, so that if it failed, it could be tracked in the field. If your car was no longer under warranty, either time or mileage, and the shortblock was replaced, it was done with the same CE engine.
Now as far as the warranty length, I am not sure about that one. Also remember, you could be denied warranty. This usually happened if there was ovious signs of abuse or a change made by the owner in the engine. Headers and fancy aluminum intakes and big Holley carbs, common for the day to install, all voided any warranty. Some dealers would bend with you anyway in some cases. My dad tells the story of a 69 Super Sport which showed up in his service bay with a hole out the side of the Muncie case. Car had big L-60 tires on Cragars, with a bunch of grooves cut in the rear tires all the way around the surface of the tread from spinning. The factory service rep took one look at those tires, and held up his index finger and said, "We will give him one!!!" Which meant, don't call again when he blows that one up!!!! Anyway, you get the drift. Not everything was covered, and sometimes depended on whether the dealer would go to bat for you.

Hope all this helps and makes sence. Seriously don't see any way that yours was replaced under warranty.

Jeff Dotterer
Dated Components
Diamond Restored Judge

Thanks Jeff! I knew you would most likely have the answer. Great info and very definitive. At least now I don't have to be nervous getting on it while driving it or doing engine mods. :D
Thanks, Steve.