Good morning, I have a sbc stroked to 383 in my 69' chevelle and after a half hour to 45 minute cruise the car has issues starting after letting it sit for a few minutes. It will eventually turn over but it is making me a little nervous with spring cruises in the near future in excess of an hour. The gauge is reading 12+ and will fire up in 20 degree weather with no problem. It only has issues when it gets hot. Could it be that the starter gets hot from the headers or maybe vapor lock? Thanks for any advice.

If you have headers, that is probably the problem. You need to get a heavy duty solenoid and spring. Also a shield will help.

another thing that will help along with a shield is a painless wiring brand bump starter with a relay (summit). this allows for all of the voltage drop thru the old wiring in our cars. put one on my 67ss last year. works great and especially since I have solid lifters...

the car has issues starting after letting it sit for a few minutes.

Does it CRANK but NOT START; or does it NOT CRANK.

Makes a huge difference in the diagnosis.

Does it CRANK but NOT START; or does it NOT CRANK.

Makes a huge difference in the diagnosis.


Or does it crank real slow?

Get a Mini Starter! Work great for me

It cranks real slow, spins a few times and then nothing. Wait a couple of seconds and then try it again with the same results. It does eventually start. Thanks guys for all the tips and advice. The motor was built for mild quarter mile racing but I do not know the specs because I bought it this way and the previous owner did the same. Might have solid lifter cam, that could add to the issue, right? My dad and I built a big block back in the late 80's and knew exactly what was put in it, this is just guesswork with this sbc but at least I have a Chevelle again and I am back in the game.

Make sure everything is grounded very well check you engine ground. A really good ground from the engine to the frame. Remove any paint on the starter pad of the block and wherever your ground straps are needs to be good bare metal.

Once the starter is turning the engine, the solenoid has done its job, which is to switch on the starter, and engage the starter gear with the flywheel.

A weak starter, bad cable, bad connections and corrosion are possibilities.

When I hear "voltage drop" I know someone who doesn't understand what they're discussing is talking, unless of course its a series circuit. Resistive connections in the circuits cause problems, but normally there shouldn't be significant measurable voltage between connections.

Ground the battery to the block.

Try warming it up, bring it home, verify the problem is happening, jump around the big battery cables with jumper cables and retest.

It sounds like your starter is having heat soak issues. My 454 had the same problem caused by my remanufactured ac delco starter. Check all of your connections first. A cheap and easy fix or just to bandaid the problem until you can fix it right would be to wire up a ford external solenoid. You can see it in the pic of my engine below next to the msd coil. Or if you have the cash a new mini starter will fix the problem.

A stock gm starting system with a starter thats not already been fried from excessive exhaust heat due to no starter-solenoid heat shield will start a perf sbc/bbc when hot even runing 18-20 deg base timing & 11.0 compression .

A somewhat tired starter can start a motor ok in cold weather but not when hot .

From my 38+ yrs experience working on gm muscle cars/motors i find if you have the stock startring setup correctly it work fine hot without having to wire up DANG Ford stater solenoid mucking up your nice gm engine compartment to bandaid a bad solenoid due to lackof a stater-solenoid heat shiled. Or also installing an aftermarket starter that many of which require some rewiring and or more shimming that you dont always have to do with a stock gm starter or at least not as much shimming is required with a stock type GM stater then many aftermarket starters.

But in most cases like this its at least one or more often 2 + thing's collectively causing hot start issues with these 40yr old cars/motors like for example a tired starter,no starter -solenoid heat shield causing a fried starter ,weak battery,bad -dirty connections that with lead to & cause hot start issues with most all GM V8's up thru the 80's .

Ensure the following is in order and it will start fine hot but if 1 or more of these item's isnt up to its proper operating efficiency you will experience hot start issues like your describing.

* NEED A FRESH HI TRQ GM STARTER (NON HI TRQ STARTER ISNT USUALLY UP TO THE TASK OF RELIABLE HOT STARTS WITH A PERF SBC/BBC MOTOR)

HAVE STATER LOAD TESTED FOR AMP DRAW/DRAIN WITH MOTOR HOT post a 45 min cruise that you say is when it acts up .

* USED A HI TEMP HD SOLENOID WITH HD SOLENOID SPRING

* RUN A STARTER-SOLENOID HEAT SHEILD

* HOT BATTERY LEAD & WIRES TO SOLENOID ARE PROPERLY SHIELDED FROM EXCESSIVE EX & ENGINE HEAT.

* A FRESH BATTERY WITH A MINIMUM OF 700CCA OR MORE IS BETTER

HAVE BATTERY LOAD TESTED

* IF RUNNING STOCK LOW/MARGINAL OUTPUT 37-42 AMP ALT WITH A 55-61 AMP UNIT FOR FASTER RECHARGE ESP POST MULT RESTARTS IN SHORT TIME PERIOD AND ALSO FOR SLIGHTLY BETTER OUTPUT WHEN AT IDLE/LOWER ENGINE SPEEDS TOO.

HAVE ALT OUTPUT (VOLTS & AMPS) TESTED .

* ENSURE ALL CONNECTIONS IN THE STARTING/CHARGING/GRND'S (ALL GRND'S ARE PRESENT)/BATTERY CABLE/HOT WIRE TO HORN ARE ALL CLEAN & FREE OF RUST/CORROSION/PAINT FROM RESTO ETC FOR PROPER CURRENT FLOW.

* ENSURE ALL CABLES/WIRES IN STARTING/CHARGING/GRND/GENERAL ELEC SYSTEM HAVE NO SPLIT/CRACKED INSUALTION THAT HAS LET IN MOISTURE LEADING TO CORROSION OVER THE PAST 30-40 YRS WHICH WILL GREATLY INCREASE INTERNAL RESISTANCE REDUCING CURRENT FLOW .

* ENSURE ALT BELT IS TIGHT TO ENSURE ITS NOT SLIPPING ON ALT PULLEY

LET US KNOW WHAT FIND WHEN WORKING THRU/DIAGNOSING THIS ISSUE & WHAT FIXES IT.

GOOD LUCK

SCOTT

WELL he said :

"It will eventually turn over "

That sounds to me like he means its turning over /cranking slow when hot & not spinning over fine & simply not firing due to it maybe being loaded up due to carb issue or a weak or no ign issue when hot for whatever the reason.

But maybe he will chime back into to better clarify what he means by" it will eventually turn over " which i take as slow cranking when hot which is common as dirt with gm v8s of that era with items of marginal operating efficiency in starting/charging /elec systems in general.

Scott

Scott you need to just write your own troubleshooting bible already haha. I bet you are getting tired of writing the same stuff over and over. I know you pretty much gave me the same answer about a year ago.

I like what Scott wrote particularly about the _bandaid_ Ford solenoid fix bit. Start with an understanding of how the system works, what part of it doesn't, and then start troubleshooting.

It could also be too much initial advance for example.

Had the same problem drive around for a while, park come back out with 5 min and it nothing. No click no crank nothing. Wait a half hour and starts fine. I bought a heat wrap starter sheild from summit for like $18.00 have not had a problem since.

This is not a solenoid issue, It's the starter motor itself that is giving you the problem. Heat shield were used to protect the solenoid from not engaging. And adding a ford relay is not the answer either. Because the starter motor is turning but slow. What you need to do is to replace the battery cable to the starter motor with a thicker cable. Check the brushes inside the starter. It's must likely worn. Check to see if you need a to add shim on the starter. As it heats up metal will expand causing the Bendix drive to get tight. If all are done right you should no problem turning the motor. You may have to get a special high torque starter if it still turn slowly. Don't forget the battery. You may need a higher rating cranking current. Run a heavy duty ground wire from the motor to the chassis frame. Make sure you have a high torque starter, too. Hope this helps.

MAD has mot of the answere

http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml

MAD has most of the answers. Surf the trouble section


http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml

Just an FYI,the stock gm starting system with hi trq starter & 11.0+comp will hot start just fine with 20 + deg base timing with perf cam when in proper working cond as i stated above.

Heck,some guys get away with running timing locked out at 36 deg and still hot start ok with stock a fresh/strong gm hi trq starter along with starting system in general being in good operating cond.

Scott

As stated above,the first thing to check would be do you have a high torque starter.It is a simple check,at the back of the solenoid where it has a small bolt or screw,there is a tab that comes out of the starter that bolts to the back of the solenoid.If there are 2 tabs its a high torque or heavy duty starter and both will do the job.If there is only 1,it is a low torque and wont do the job.

Verify you have a high cranking amp rating on the battery or get 1.

I forgot, If the neg cable may be connected to engine block. You may have to replace the neg cable with a thicker gauge wire, too.

If battery and starter checks OK, the problem may be in the timing system. Check timing and advance for proper operation.

again,you can run 20+ deg base timing and even 36 deg locked out timing with a properly setup stock gm sarting system with no hot start issues.

The only time running more base timing creates hot sart issues is when theres issues with 1 or more itmes in the stock starting system to begin with . Then when advancing the base timing for a perf cam often brings out those issues that didn't seem to be there when running less base timing that's more forgiving on marginal starting system parts like a somowhat tired /weak starter or battery that hasent totally given up yet. Weak parts like those that haevnt totally goven up yet can still start the motor fine cold,get the motor/starter heat soaked and then your dead with a marginal starter or battery,& esp when both are marginal .

That's almost always the kiss of death for the old R-R-R-R Click-Click-Click when you try to refire the beats when hot post a 5 min shutdown to fillup the tank .

ANOTHER MYTH ,you need thicker gauge battery cables for reliable hot starts with a bbc or sbc street perf motor. It has surprised me ver the yrs the smaller cable ar not an issue but thats been the case for me & my car with bbc and also others i work on too with bbc.

But putting larger gauge battery cable's can help a hot start issue by bandaining other issues due to their lower resistance to current flow that can help out a toired starter or tired starter solenoid at times.

I have the smaller gauge/smaller diameter stock type spring clamp battery cables on my bbc running 20+ deg base timing with stock hi trq starter and /completely stock starting & charging systems including what i consider to be a somewhat older weak repop R59 delco battery that came new with only 550-600CCA and is now 3+ yrs old with no hot start issues.

And even with that 3yr old slightly down on CCA battery still in my car it always starts fine hot with 20+ deg base timing for the mild aftermarket perf cam its running .
I have run those small diameter/small gauge stock battery cables for yrs with never any hot start issues becasue i have the starting & chatging systems both in top cond .

I have also installed sets of those same type smaller gauge spring clamp battery cables & repop R59 batteries that new were slightly low on CCA for my likeing on mult underhood resto's i have done on bbc chevelles over the past few yrs and never had any hot start issues or complaints.

But i am the person that also maintains those cars too so you can bet the starting/charging systems are correct & up to snuff /LOL!!!!!,if i see-hear a starter or battery getting tired i let the people know before it's an issue.

I also get them on board with buying inexpensive battery maintianers to ensure thier batteries are up to full charge each time the car leaves the garage which helps too.

That's because these cars see plenty of non use & batteries loose charge/cranking amp power over wks time ,but just how much battery voltage-amps are lost over time depends on battery age, type battery tech(lead acid/new AGM/GEL) ,and if the car its in has any devices(clock/memory in upgraded steroe/alarm system-etc) or other issues that draw on the battery when car is in non use state where a battery maintaner can really come in handy.

But i agree with the statement made above my post about going for a higher CCA battery. Its always a good thing to run a higher cca battery to help with hot starting bbc/sbc street perfmotors which is what i always rec people run.

The only reason i run the lower output r59 is because it looks nice under the hood of my #'s matching 69 chevelle ss 396 i have owned for over 31yrs.

But i believe the newer gen R59 repop batteries mfg's today with the latest AGM technology have more CCA /approx 650-700. So when the current weaker R59 in my car poops out i wll opt for one of those newr/stronger R59 AGM series batteries,they are $229 on ebay from Turbostart in PA,formally Newcastle Battery of PA.

BY,over the 31yrs i have owned that car the 1st sear diehard lasted 13yrs,2nd lasted 12 yrs . Then for a couple yrs i used a battery i had on hand then approx 3 yrs ago got an older gen R59 repop.

I feel using a battery maintainer along with keeping an eye on electrolite lvl and toppng off when needed with distilled water on those 1st 2 diehards got me the considerably longer 2x-3x service life vs what the avg battery lasts.

My bike battery is on its 6th yr,bike batteries typically last 3yrs sometimes 4yrs on avg avg so i am at approx 2x srvc life there already .& yes i also use a battery maintainer on the bike battery too along with keeping it topped off with dist water,tap water with minerals & or salt from softener in it can cause internal issues/shorting/etc considerably reducing a batteries srvc life.

As i said in my earlier posts here,he neds to have the starter load tested with motor hot ,battery load tested ,and alt volts/amps output tested too and go from there.

I would want to see at least 550-600 CCA from battery for load test ,i also prefer to run a 55-61 amp alt fr AC over the weaker stock #&-41 amp alts for little faster recharge inbetween mult starts and also sightly better out when at idle in trafic too esp at night with lights on etc.

Heck, i have had a few times when i rec people run battery maintaners that after that their hot start issues went away withnoithing else done or changed. That's because they were starting out with a fully charged battery & in some cases thats all thats needed . Esp ecialy if the bettery is a little weak or there are devices installed on car that have a drain on battery to keep memory etc when car is not in use.

I KNOW,ENOUGH ALREADY & I WILL STOP BEATING THIS TO DEATH/LOL!!!!!

scott

And you know what's funny,were are going nuts bantering back & forth on this hot start issue and the original poster hasent even chimed back in yet with more info or any diagnostic's he's done thus far/lol!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like testing the battery/stater/alt which is a good place to start imho.

Autozone/advanced auto/pepboys/local shop can all do those 3 testes in 10 mins right in front of thier store,most do it for free in hopes of making a sale.

Scott

Thanks for all the advice, have not had a chance to perform any tests to isolate the issue. I live in NJ and the car is tucked away until the weather breaks. Been working on my kitchen instead to make the wife happy (maybe she will let me spend some $ this spring) so I have not checked in lately. Hopefully I will get to the Chevelle after the Olympics ( I work for NBC ). Thanks for everyones input and time. :)

I know this is a somewhat old post, but I had a similar problem, not with my chevelle, but S-10 with 350. last summer, just bought fairly cheap, had too much cam, so i had a bit of timing. After setting for 10 or so minutes after a drive, it would take about five minutes to get it started. No vapor lock, had a mini starter, good connections/ battery, etc. Had 2 dizzy coils that went bad, would be hot to the touch. ( very cramped fit, possibly not enough cooling air) Once the weather cooled down, problem went away. Beats me...

Hot start problems could be a failing coil---- Don't ask how many things I tried before I paid somebody to figure that out for me last summer.:noway:

mine had troubles starting for a while too, moved battery from trunk (bought it that way) to engine bay and it was better