ok,so i know that i don't get involved with alot of the discussions here,and none of you here really know anything about me,but i know that there is a very large pool of car people knowledge here.i check alot of threads daily,without many replies.anyway.......

i have a '65 malibu that i have had since sept. '92.i also had a bronze on bronze '66 138 4spd car,and a '71 nova that is mini tubbed,9",ladder bars,etc..

so i sell the '66 in late oct. and decide to have my '65 fixed.i have the facility to do it myself,but not really the time,to do what i want done,in the time frame i want it done.so i ask a few local guys to price it.guy prices it at $4000.that is to take it off the frame,replace both quarters,drivers floor,and left side of the trunk.him supplying all the metal and materials.

BUT,i am responsible to do the frame.no big deal.so i blast,paint,and replace EVERYTHING(new stainless lines,sc&c stage II plus,springs,spc lower arms,tubular adjustable rears,everything)

so frame goes back,is put back under the car,etc.

fast foward to new year weekend.car gets paint.and he has been buffing this past week(he works a full time other than painting).

so i take him the weather stripping,and some of the interior parts that need painted,and i notice that there is ALOT of pits,or craters(probally 50-75 honestly) in the clear.he tells me that this happens,and that most will come out.these are deep enough that the tip of a pencil(sharp)would catch in these pits.look to me that they are in the first layer of clear.i honestly don't believe that they will buff out.i questioned him one other time about some things,and he told me that he had done this before,and that i should wait until i see the finished product.i can understand that statement.so i have let him get to this point without me going by and checking on him.and i believe that i am going to let him get to the point that he says he's done before i start pointing.

i have been around cars and painting environments for 20+yrs,but have not sprayed any paint myself.but i know that paint is not just sprayed that way.

he does have a good reputation around here,and i've seen some of his work.but this is MY car.and i still owe him half!

so,i guess what i'm asking is how would you guys approach this situation.i have a very hard time swallowing BS,and get angry fast when someone assumes that i know no better,and will believe anything.

just asking for opions.

thanks to all that take the time to read this and respond.

DISGUSTED!:mad:

could be silicone pitting/craters. This happens if he wiped down the car with a rag that had some silicone on it. This can happen even using fresh washed wiping rags due to the detergent used.
A good painter with a little too much pride wouldn't want to freak out a customer and would say they were no big deal, then after you leave put allot of hours wet sanding way more than he would have had to if the darn silicone hadn't been there.
Silicone is a painters biggest enemy! I have washed total cars down in a rage before when they were found.
They make a "fish eye" reducer which you can add when you see the fish eyes/craters just starting and it overwhelms the silicone by adding enough extra silicone to force all the paint/clear to flow nice and flat.
I don't know for sure this happened on your car without seeing the actual paint, but i have been around allot of painting and done many myself, so that would be my guess.
If it is fish eye, it wont affect the integrity, just loads of extra sanding.

You should post this in the body forum. Look for sevtchevelle or MartinSR.

not really looking for the cause,just asking opinions about handling the situation.
thanks

guess maybe i should if would help somebody with that problem. I wouldn't worry too much about the "pitting", the clear coat can always be fixxed. You got a heck of a deal on that work done. 2 quarters and finished body and paint for 4K! That guy didn't make much for his work, he's probably only making 20 bucks an hour after it's all said and done. Could be that's why he might get a little testy. Painters are a funny breed, always ready for a meltdown due to the stress of getting all that work ready for paint, just to have it all hinge on humidity, temperature, a fly in the booth, silicone, a compressor that might spit a little oil or water out the gun, so many variables. I have never met a a painter that didn't drink! haha

Dave, Isn't it svet?

Honestly, I'd say let him finish. You probably got him pretty nervous.
If he told you it will be fine, then leave it at that until he's done.
And in the end, the best way to address any problems would be with an open mind and compassion. (Without raising your voice, if you know what I mean).
He'll be far more likely to make it right for less cost than anyone else you'd take it to.

Just food for thought.........

fwiw, white is a pretty forgiving color. Prob the most forgiving.

Just keep holding out on paying the balance. He knows just as well as you that there is $ on the table still. See what it looks like when it is time to square up.

good advice. money talks, especially the lack of it.

Once he color sands it and buffs it those pits will/should shrink up or completely disappear.

what i'm asking is how would you guys approach this situation.i have a very hard time swallowing BS,and get angry fast when someone assumes that i know no better,and will believe anything.

just asking for opions.

First of all don't get disgusted or mad. Too many times I've seen people get upset about events and can't work through it because the transaction accumulated so much emotional baggage. I know it's offensive when someone doesn't do what you want done and you're paying them good money to do so.

You have to look at it as a straight business transaction. Your expectation must be clearly stated in a non-confrontational, non-emotional way. He must know that when he tries to present the car as done, you will not accept it with defects.

You still owe him half the money. Don't accept the car and pay him the money until it's done to your satisfaction. If he won't do the work to your satisfaction, then start negotiating a reduced price to correct his work. Just get out of the transaction. You can't get blood out of a turnip and there is only so much he is going to do. You don't want your car in the hands of someone who has become disgruntled with you. Sometimes you need to know when to cut your losses.

Good luck!

4k for all of that work?? And your expecting a "show" finish? Well I think your expectations are a little high! In fact you can always point out many defects in a 10-15k paint job. Get over it. It sounds like your getting a great deal to begin with .

Once he color sands it and buffs it those pits will/should shrink up or completely disappear.

:yes:

Let him do his thing and then see if all is ok.

I had my hood done up with some trick-@ss flames, and they reshot the fenders too. I went to the shop to check progress and was real nervous about the grit and dips in the clear. I almost said something about it to the guy. When I went to pick up the car after it was finished all those imperfections were gone. Hopefully his happens for you.

The poor guys is going in the hole doing all that work that cheap. I allready feel bad for him. I'm sure he knows more about painting then you do. He may have to sand and respray some clear before he is done. That will be no big deal to him. If he does good work as you said, he'll know what to do. Might be cut and buff will fix it and you don't realize how many flaws that can take out. I have never sprayed any type of paint that buffing didn't make better. Color sanding changes the whole finish.

After the cut and buff it will look much better. Just remember that no paint is perfect. I have seen very high end paint jobs, and always find something. The cars never look that good all apart with fresh shot paint. My experience is white is the easiest to shoot. Good at hiding better than all the other colors. Get it all polished up and put together and you should be happy. Keeping in mind that it will in no way be "perfect", and you got a great deal.

The poor guys is going in the hole doing all that work that cheap. I allready feel bad for him.

Feel sorry for him? :noway: Why? HE quoted the price. If he didn't charge enough, well thats on him and shouldn't reflect the quality of the work, if he's truly a professional. Slacking off b/c you realize halfway in you under-charged is HACK.

I agree though, wait until he calls it "finished" and see how it looks then. Probably just isn't through all the steps of the process.

ok,so i went to the body shop on saturday.car does look better.but some of the "craters" he has went back and dabbed clear into to fill them.he said he would then sand them down even and re-buff.my question is,will this clear adhere to the clear that is already there,or will it be prone to lifting?a close friend of mine,who lives in another state,that has been painting for about 40yrs,tells me that it should be fine because the clear is fresh.another guy tells me that these spots will pop loose.what do ya'll think?just asking for opinions.thanks.

p.s.
am suppose to pick car up wednsday at 11am,if it is not raining.....or snowing.you never know.

If he is having to dab clear in the craters the problem stems back to silicone getting on the finish. Depending on which step of the process did it happen determines if he can buff it out and remove the craters.

I worked at a shop that had SEVERE silicone problems for several months and saw this technique used countless times in the paint dept. They used small medical type needles to drop a small amount of clear into the crater. A slick technique no doubt, but not on my car!

That method is nothing but a band aid fix, it will come back and bite you IMO. I saw an entire front end on a brand new 06 Charger get repainted twice due to silicone, clear dabbed on only to be stripped to bare metal. Sometimes the paint dept got lucky and the car went home, sometimes not...Eric

WELL I WENT AND GOT THE CAR,RELUCTANTLY!had i not went ahead and took it,i probally would have gotten a free nights stay on the county.not impressed at all.
1.drilled quarter panel emblem holes after paint was on the car.CROOKED!emblem is bent downward on both ends.he tells me,"you'll never notice it once everything is on the car".BS!:mad:
2.lower fender bolt,that bolts into the lower cowl,is WELDED in!said it stripped.i asked him if he had any taps,just got a stupid look.:mad:
3.rockers were not smoothed,paint chips are still there,the same ones it had before paint.the lower rear quarters have just enough paint to make them feel grainy.not to mention that the spot welds where the quarters meet the drop offs,weren't ground off.he told me,"i don't paint a car down that low,you'll never see it".BS!:mad:
4.sandblasted the bottom of the car(car was off the frame)then sprayed undercoating in a random matter,covering as much with undercoating,as without.bare metal showing,didn't even prime prior to undercoating.
5.installed drivers side floor patch,finished the TOP side,left the bottom as installed.two pieces of metal and spot welds,litterailly!same thing with the small trunk repairs.:mad:
6.never wet blocked the car,all d/a dry sanding.some say that a newer method.car is pretty rippley!:mad:
i can go on and on.....
THEN,on saturday he calls to see if i'm home,if i'm in the garage.i say yes,why?he wants to come by.OOOOOOK.:mad:
HE BRINGS A GUY WITH HIM,TO SHOW HIM MY CAR!?:confused:LIKE,LOOK WHAT I DID.not a very good idea at this point.and at MY HOUSE! UH OH !YES,I LET HIM HAVE IT.TRIED TALKING TO ME LIKE I KNOW NO BETTER,AND THAT MADE IT WORSE!:mad:he honestly thinks he did a good job.

this a car that i have owned for 17yrs.i rebuilt the frame my self while he had the body.sandblasted,por15'd,sc&c stage 2plus,spc springs,all adjustable rear arms,all new stainless brake and fuel lines,new richmond super street 5spd,gen V 502,rebuilt original 3.31 posi 12bolt,bilstein shocks,etc....also have a new vintage sure fit kit.
and he tells me that i told him i was going to drive it,not building a show car.good d@#n thing!

anyways,this was my experience.he left with lighter pockets and a bad opinion of me,but o well,i should have gotten more of my money back,or the OTHER option!since he was at MY house that day.:yes:

so,now i am taking body back off the frame(if i can get the welded fender bolt out)and putting it on a rotisorie(sp)to clean up that mess on the bottom before i even start worrying about what to do with the paint.

what should i put over the bare metal before i undercoat,etching primer or will epoxy do what i need?por15 or similar?
thanks
PISSED IN KY!

Put epoxy primer/sealer over clean bare steel.

4k for all of that work?? And your expecting a "show" finish? Well I think your expectations are a little high! In fact you can always point out many defects in a 10-15k paint job. Get over it. It sounds like your getting a great deal to begin with .

Exactly. 4k isnt chump change but it doesnt warrant expecting perfection.
I have over 10k in a body/white paint job and there are small flaws if I look hard enough. Nothings perfect.

Check it out once its done. Under flourescents youll see EVERYthing, in daylight with that color youll never notice it. Not trying to sell you on accepting something bad just saying....:beers:

You should have got what you contracted for. Problem is you contracted about $10K worth of work for $4k. The guy obviously made a mistake, or his ideas of quality are different then yours. That seems to be the trouble, you expected BJ quality and he figured looking good at 20mph is great.

Some pix of this would really clarify things.
Is it as bad as you say or are you getting worked up and making it worse then it seems?
You should have worked with him from the beginning on such details as the type of paint on the underbody. That should have been painted correctly and not covered with undercoat. Usually undercoating just hides rust and repairs and is suspect.

You will probably be well off refinishing the car yourself, now. You can tell if it is straight, you can touch up any body work that needs it. You can get good paint coverage all over and rustproof the inner body before you trim it out. It might cost you $1000 or so in materials, but with it being as far as long as it is now, you aren't facing a big job. When done, you will really have a top quality job for a lot less then a shop would charge.

Will a light sand and re-clear do the trick? or is it a problem with the surface and not prepped properly?

trying to come up an acceptable solution for your driver project.

Will a light sand and re-clear do the trick? or is it a problem with the surface and not prepped properly?

trying to come up an acceptable solution for your driver project.
another guy suggested that also,just to make sure there is enough material to block it out.going to straighten up the mess underneath first.i'll try to post some pics.definately in too deep to quit!

Did you comunicate to your body/paint guy just what kind of finish you were expecting when he was done? If so, and he is a good reputable guy like you say he is, then he would know to apply at least 3 coats of clear knowing that he is going to wet sand and buff the car when he is finished. This should give him enough wiggle room to sand those pits out and you should be ok. The price you agreed on was an awesome deal for you! My all overs start at $3k for just the exterior and at least $1k for each quarter replacement, etc. Hope it works out for all involved.