After all the sales pitch on the benefits of Soda over sand, I now have the addional work ahead of re-doing the top and bottom of my car. I went by the book, waited for the hottiest dry weather. Had it blasted in one day at 97 degrees, no rain for days. Blasting ($850.00) Epoxy primer and materials ($500.00) and worked like a dog.

Now I have wasted this because when we got to the bottom to clean up the repairs on the tunnel and wheel wells my painter has discovered surface rust under the primer. Thankfully he is the "must do it right" honnest kind and will not allow me to continue untill Wesley and I fix this problem.

His comments are "soda won't remove the rust, and I don't do soda anymore". Just pis... I didn't meet him before the soadblaster.

I hope this will help someone else.:(
http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv45/WesleyTullos/DSC05135.jpg
Kent

Did you soda blast thinking IT WOULD remove rust???

Soda's not for rust...

I use it to clean up things like Carbs. Soft metal things, dist...

Depending on the rust you need some abrasive stuff...

Did you soda blast thinking IT WOULD remove rust???
I was not aware that it would not remove this kind of rust. I knew I had some rust on the quaters and fenders and replaced these along with a new hood and trunklid.

I did not have the knowledge I needed at the time I let the soda blaster salesman SELL me on how to do this. Remembering what my dad said, "he who has the most knowledge usually wins". I trusted the person selling his wares instead of geting ALL the information I needed. Just thankful my painter has the integrity to make me do it right.

I'm sure Soda has it's place in life, even on my project, but my comments are for those like me that are not experienced and need to ask more questions from more people to get advice before we spend time and money with poor results. Most "TC" members have been very supportive and extreamly helpful! Many have spent their time:yes: on MY project helping us figure out things and have never met me or my son. This is a great website!!! I'm just trying to share the love.

Kent, I wouldn't be happy at all with that blaster. He knew that the rust was
not gone and went ahead and shot the epoxy anyway. He should have let
you know and went with another abrasive for that. I guess he figured you
would not see it as its on the bottom or it wouldn't bleed thru that quick.
I would let him know..not so nicely;)

Chuck

They pushed soda blasting years ago and it was a waste of time and money.

I'am sorry about they way it came out,you should have ask us team members first. :(

www.howardsbackyardautobody.com :beers:

Found you guys a few dollars to late. Now I make most of my choices on this project with the advice of TC members and will continue to bounce things off ya'll. What's nice is someone most likely has already been there, done that, got the t-shirt and not too proud to tell others of thier issues good and BAD! :thumbsup:

Kent, I wouldn't be happy at all with that blaster. He knew that the rust was
not gone and went ahead and shot the epoxy anyway. He should have let
you know and went with another abrasive for that. I guess he figured you
would not see it as its on the bottom or it wouldn't bleed thru that quick.
I would let him know..not so nicely;)

Chuck

No kidding!!! Very well said. The guy is selling a SERVICE and if you were going to the degree you are on this car he had to know your goal was to REMOVE PROBLEMS, not create them! By offering paint service, he's "acting" like he knows what the purpose of that is. You should have a discussion with him.

Hang in there and good luck.

I should make something more clear to be fair, I did the primer. He told me what to do!
Kent

I should make something more clear to be fair, I did the primer. He told me what to do!
Kent

Kent, I'm confused by the photo. I've never seen rust bleed through epoxy like that. It's as if it were not even done; the rust is clear as day.

I should make something more clear to be fair, I did the primer. He told me what to do!
Kent

Didn't you see the rust before you sprayed?

LK

Don't you need to nuetralize the metal after soda blasting, prior to painting? Perhaps that is why it's bleeding or coming off easily...

Soda blasting is good for one thing , Removing paint !!! It will not remove RUST at all !!!! And yes it needs to be nuetralized before you primer/paint.

To remove rust from your body/frame/parts, Aluminum Oxide or Black Beauty Slag works the best . After blasting you need to DA sand every thing with 80 grit paper. Clean the metal to remove contaminants with a good Pre-Cleaner (100% Virgin Solvents). Now your are ready to primer the metal . Use a good Etching Pretreatment Primer Sealer or Epoxy Primer. These primes are made to eat in to the sheet metal and not come off. Now you are ready to put a good 2K primer on and do your body work.

*** Make sure to removed 100% of the rust before you prime the metal . If not it will be back in time ***

Mike's Custom Cars
1-803-329-2835
www.mikescustomcars.com (http://www.anrdoezrs.net/click-3497329-10546635?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikescustomcars.com)

Soda blasting is good for one thing , Removing paint !!! It will not remove RUST at all !!!! And yes it needs to be nuetralized before you primer/paint.

To remove rust from your body/frame/parts, Aluminum Oxide or Black Beauty Slag works the best . After blasting you need to DA sand every thing with 80 grit paper. Clean the metal to remove contaminants with a good Pre-Cleaner (100% Virgin Solvents). Now your are ready to primer the metal . Use a good Etching Pretreatment Primer Sealer or Epoxy Primer. These primes are made to eat in to the sheet metal and not come off. Now you are ready to put a good 2K primer on and do your body work.

*** Make sure to removed 100% of the rust before you prime the metal . If not it will be back in time ***

Mike's Custom Cars
1-803-329-2835
www.mikescustomcars.com (http://www.anrdoezrs.net/click-3497329-10546635?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikescustomcars.com)

Unfortunately there are people claiming soda does remove rust. And telling it to people who have no bodywork knowledge.

A friend of mine is about to take an original '30 ford body to have soda blasted. It has several coats of paint on it and some rust through.

So, should the body be soda blasted 1st to remove the paint, and then aluminum oxide/black beauty slag blasted on the rusted areas?

He is really close to having this done and I think has been led to believe that the soda would remove everything. Glad I found this thread.

The black areas are where the soda did not remove the undercoating. We torched and scraped those spots. What you see in this pic is burnt tar type spots that will be blasted. When he repaired the drilled holes from the rollbar, fuel pump, and who knows what is when the painter noticed the surface type rust under the epoxy primer. Was going to blast Sat am but tooooo cooooldddd!!!:sad:

A friend of mine is about to take an original '30 ford body to have soda blasted. It has several coats of paint on it and some rust through.

So, should the body be soda blasted 1st to remove the paint, and then aluminum oxide/black beauty slag blasted on the rusted areas?

He is really close to having this done and I think has been led to believe that the soda would remove everything. Glad I found this thread.

Why don't you just chem or machine strip and then sandblast? There's nothing to that body. If there is any previous work under the multiple paint layers soda will not remove it anyway, or the rust. And again, stay away from flat panels. It simply amazes me people don't realize sandblasting destroys flat panels. For what you will be charged you can buy a pressure pot blaster.

A friend of mine is about to take an original '30 ford body to have soda blasted. It has several coats of paint on it and some rust through.

So, should the body be soda blasted 1st to remove the paint, and then aluminum oxide/black beauty slag blasted on the rusted areas?

He is really close to having this done and I think has been led to believe that the soda would remove everything. Glad I found this thread.

Why don't you just chem or machine strip and then sandblast? There's nothing to that body. If there is any previous work under the multiple paint layers soda will not remove it anyway, or the rust. And again, stay away from flat panels. It simply amazes me people don't realize sandblasting destroys flat panels. For what you will be charged you can buy a pressure pot blaster.


I bought a 40lb pressurized blaster and did an entire 1929 Tudor body and had no ill effects, That metal is pretty damn thick on the 30's cars. My car was complete rust, Maybe 2 square feet of original paint left on it. I had the body completely tore apart (1/4's off and everything) and blasted both sides and never hurt a thing. Just keep an eye on it and don't hold the blaster in one spot too long.

LK

Thanks, I will pass along the info.

I bought a 40lb pressurized blaster and did an entire 1929 Tudor body and had no ill effects, That metal is pretty damn thick on the 30's cars. My car was complete rust, Maybe 2 square feet of original paint left on it. I had the body completely tore apart (1/4's off and everything) and blasted both sides and never hurt a thing. Just keep an eye on it and don't hold the blaster in one spot too long.

LK

Yea, If you know what you are doing and shoot it on an angle and MOVE. If everybody knew this panels would not be ruined. I'm doing a 39 Chevy for a customer and yes, the panels are heavier guage, as well as the three '31 Good Humor trucks I did. But forevermore, lack of common sense results in destruction, no matter what people are doing.

I ruined a nice orginal 1970 deck lid, was cleaning it up with a siphon sand blaster on the underside in the webbing area.

So even a siphon blaster which isn't hitting it as hard as a pressurized one can do damage in a hurry.

I haven't tried to do the side of a car after that, but, I think if a guy is really carefull and keeps the blasting nozzle at an angle he could do it.

I'm not willing to chance it, but if somebody has this down pat, I sure would like to learn.

Rob, it's not worth it. It uses too much sand, takes too long and time is money. I do it once in a while to tickle something if I'm blasting other stuff. Like the rounded, poor condition 39 Chevy fenders I'm doing.

For removing paint, go with plastic. Wont damage the metal, but doesnt remove rust or filler. Had my 49 truck fenders blasted, the guy used plastic to remove all the paint first then used a mixture of something with crushed glass to remove rust and filler.
Plastic is what most blasting shops use on aluminum...Eric

At least you found it! That is a good thing. Good luck and keep the photos coming.

A friend of mine is about to take an original '30 ford body to have soda blasted. It has several coats of paint on it and some rust through.

So, should the body be soda blasted 1st to remove the paint, and then aluminum oxide/black beauty slag blasted on the rusted areas?

He is really close to having this done and I think has been led to believe that the soda would remove everything. Glad I found this thread.


Blast it just one time !!!! Use Aluminum Oxide if you can .. It will not damage the sheet metal as bad as sand will . I good blaster will not try to blast alot of body filler off of the sheet metal, and he knows to move around not to build up heat on the panels. A good blaster will blast the body/parts first and thin come back with a DA sander or wire wheel to remover body filler they run in to. Thin they will blast the spots where the filler was. If you know your body/parts has some filler in them. Take a little time and DA sand this out BEFORE you take it to the blaster !!!! Look guys you need to make sure the guys you use knows how to do this RIGHT the first time . You don't need to have a lot of damaged parts or body come back to you. Check around with other guys that has used these blasters before. See if they was happy with the job done for them .

Good luck !!!

Mike's Custom Cars
1-803-329-2835
www.mikescustomcars.com (http://www.mikescustomcars.com)

OK, Sand Blasting DONE!!!

Before

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv45/WesleyTullos/DSC04201-1.jpg

I lightly blasted off epoxy primer, see the brown!.
http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv45/WesleyTullos/CopyofDSC05251.jpg

After a good 4 hours!

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv45/WesleyTullos/DSC05265.jpg

The bottom before

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv45/WesleyTullos/DSC05127-1.jpg

After another 5 hours.

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv45/WesleyTullos/DSC05259.jpg

MUCH HAPPIER after 1,000 lbs :eek: of sand and 9 HOURS :wacko::wacko:

YOU CAN'T KEEP A GOOD MAN DOWN

What on earth are you using for a sandblaster that takes 9 hours and 10 bags to do just the undercarriage?

When blasting here are a few things to keep in mind.
A Siphon blaster needs higher amounts of air to draw the vacuum required to siphon the media. The higher the air pressure the more material will be drawn into the feed tube.
Media is what does the work not the pressure with abrasives.

On the pressure pot style blaster a lower pressure can be used to blast due to the added amount of media. If you increase the flow more material cleans your part, by adding more air pressure you increase the and velocity of the media.

What on earth are you using for a sandblaster that takes 9 hours and 10 bags to do just the undercarriage?
Pressure pot with very low air (advice of bodyman/painter "take many breaks to let compressor rest, it's not how you drive it's how you arive, slow go no warp!!") We did the bottom, roof, and firewall.
See my pics under "Pics of 69 progress" :beers:

Looks nice Kent! Was the old roof in good condition? Mine has a couple creases I'm not sure how to remove, also rust in front windshield top channel. May cash in something to buy the new roof $ 350.

Looks nice Kent! Was the old roof in good condition? Mine has a couple creases I'm not sure how to remove, also rust in front windshield top channel. May cash in something to buy the new roof $ 350.
Roof will have some filler on two dings but the channel is ok and we blasted the surface rust away. I got lucky that my painter caught my problem BEFORE we painted!

I am new here and just learning about classic car restoration. I have restored a number of aircraft but no cars.

I always used glass beads when blasting the thin walled steel aircraft tubing on a fabric aircraft because the sand removes too much metal. Sand under high pressure will eat up steel in a hurry. Also the silica in sand imparts some undesirable properties to the blasted steel (as it embeds) that the glass beads do not. The only drawback to glass beads is that they are a lot more expensive than plain old sand.

As someone else has already said you then have to treat the steel before primer to insure all the rust was killed down in the pores and grain of the metal. Finally, nothing beats epoxy primer.

After I learn everything I can from you guys I might like to try my hand at restoring a car.:)

Steve

[QUOTE=DreamCar69;2701579]I am new here and just learning about classic car restoration. I have restored a number of aircraft but no cars.

I always used glass beads when blasting the thin walled steel aircraft tubing on a fabric aircraft because the sand removes too much metal. Sand under high pressure will eat up steel in a hurry. Also the silica in sand imparts some undesirable properties to the blasted steel (as it embeds) that the glass beads do not. The only drawback to glass beads is that they are a lot more expensive than plain old sand.

Don't they make glass beads out of silica sand? Is the glass bead softer than sand or not as sharp? I have no clue!! Educate me please, I'm new to all this.

Kent,

I am no engineer but one of the A&P s I worked with was a mechanical engineer and he told me the sand was much more abrasive and cut deeper and more irregular. Also there is something about the chemical composition of the raw sand that allows it to embed itself into the metal weakening the surface of the steel. The glass beads do a much smoother job of cleaning the steel with less damage.

Another thing is to try and clean off as much paint, dirt and other crap from the steel as you can to minimize the amount of blasting you have to do.
In blasting less is better.

Steve

What on earth are you using for a sandblaster that takes 9 hours and 10 bags to do just the undercarriage?

It took me the same time and amount, if you want it right you got to spend the time.

I use a 500 watt hand held light and supplied air so I can stand in there and look it over good.

I used a 100 lb pressurized unit.
I have done a lot of sand and bead blasting, and it just takes time. I was bead blasting this week for about an hour.

A commercial sandblaster isn't going to give you as good a job as a hobbist if he has a good working blaster.

A hobbist can take the time to get at the different panels at an angle if needed.

Rob

It took me the same time and amount, if you want it right you got to spend the time.

I use a 500 watt hand held light and supplied air so I can stand in there and look it over good.

I used a 100 lb pressurized unit.
I have done a lot of sand and bead blasting, and it just takes time. I was bead blasting this week for about an hour.

A commercial sandblaster isn't going to give you as good a job as a hobbist if he has a good working blaster.

A hobbist can take the time to get at the different panels at an angle if needed.

Rob

Rob, I've been sandblasting cars for restoration and many other things besides cars for 20 years. For personal and customers' cars. So I guess I can consider myself a commercial blaster. I always do a thorough job. It does not take me all day to do an undercarriage. If it looks like it's been sitting in a saltwater bath then perhaps, but in general, no. Clean up is not included in the blasting time. The OPs car was already blasted preliminarily so I was wondering how it took so long to go over it again. Hence the question.

I use glass beads and no no silica (main reason I use it). There are different
grits and it works great. It WILL remove rust but does take extra time to do
it but it really cleans it out of any pits. My frame is really good so it works fine
on it for what I have done so far. If you need anything with more grit I use
crushed glass.

Also after shooting I sweep it up and reuse it over and over again.
Last no heat issues with this (beads) and will not damage trim or aluminum.

Chuck

I found this locally http://www.blastingmediasales.net/green.html for $20/100lbs. Let you know how it works when it gets above freezing here, hope soon. Expert in blasting recommended this for our smaller air compressor.
which is this one:;:::http://www.tptools.com/p/185,91_5-HP-2-Stage-Heavy-Duty-Centurion-Champion-Series.html

I don't mean to take up valuable disk space here, just putting this up in case it could help out here. thanks
.

I found this locally http://www.blastingmediasales.net/green.html for $20/100lbs. Let you know how it works when it gets above freezing here, hope soon. Expert in blasting recommended this for our smaller air compressor.
which is this one:;:::http://www.tptools.com/p/185,91_5-HP-2-Stage-Heavy-Duty-Centurion-Champion-Series.html

I don't mean to take up valuable disk space here, just putting this up in case it could help out here. thanks
.

Wow, they are near me. Silica is only $9 for 100lbs. I suppose one is paying not to have the silica. Nice to see someone is actually buying a real compressor for a change. Pipe it right.

Rob, I've been sandblasting cars for restoration and many other things besides cars for 20 years. For personal and customers' cars. So I guess I can consider myself a commercial blaster. I always do a thorough job. It does not take me all day to do an undercarriage. If it looks like it's been sitting in a saltwater bath then perhaps, but in general, no. Clean up is not included in the blasting time. The OPs car was already blasted preliminarily so I was wondering how it took so long to go over it again. Hence the question.

Scott, when you do the bottom of a car you should do the inside and the cowl in and out and trunk, and that takes time.

Scott, when you do the bottom of a car you should do the inside and the cowl in and out and trunk, and that takes time.

Whatever Rob. Not being sarcastic either. Square footage of area blasted was never stated. Sandblasting the inside of the cab is standard practice anyway. Unless you are a hack. Or unless it was like some cars I've restored, mine for instance, that were rust free inside. All that jibberish aside lets call it a full day to do THE ENTIRE CAR.

Don't they make glass beads out of silica sand? Is the glass bead softer than sand or not as sharp? I have no clue!! Educate me please, I'm new to all this.[/QUOTE]


Not softer, just different surface terrain. This directly affects the way that force is transmitted into the metal. Sharp edged sand gives a point impact causing more pitting. Bead is more of a 'blunt' impact with a force-distributed blow to the metal. Takes a little longer, but less trauma to the piece.

Don't they make glass beads out of silica sand? Is the glass bead softer than sand or not as sharp? I have no clue!! Educate me please, I'm new to all this.


Not softer, just different surface terrain. This directly affects the way that force is transmitted into the metal. Sharp edged sand gives a point impact causing more pitting. Bead is more of a 'blunt' impact with a force-distributed blow to the metal. Takes a little longer, but less trauma to the piece.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. :thumbsup: