I am listing my 4 speed swap parts list since I figured it might be useful to someone thinking about doing a swap. This is for replacing a TH-350 with a Muncie M20. The Car is a 1969 Chevelle 396.


Swap Meet
1. Used Muncie M20 with good gears(Currently being disassembled for inspection) $435
2. Used original GM 621 Bell housing $140
3. Used Hurst Competition Plus Shifter and linkage $125

Summit Racing
1. Clutch - Centerforce CTF-DF735552 $269.95
A. Throwout Bearing CTF-N1716 $34.95
B. Clutch Alignment Tool Centerforce CTF-53010 $7.99
C. Pilot Bushing Bronze. RAM-BU656 $3.95
D. Flywheel Centerforce CTF-700120 $289.95
E. Arp Flywheel Bolts ARP-200-2802 $11.95
F. Arp Pressure Plate Bolts ARP-130-2201 $11.95
G. Hurst Backup light switch HUU-2480003 $23.25
H. HUU-3327302 Hurst Pit pack shifter bushings, buttons, clips for my Used Hurst Shifter $9.25

Ground Up
1. Pedal Linkage Kit FCG-68 $99.95
2. Shifter Hump RST-72A $69.99
4. Flywheel inspection cover Bolts BFW-506K $1.95
5. Bellhousing Bolt Kit BPB-9021 $8.95
6. Firewall boot retainer FV-1521 $14.95
7. Clutch Fork Ball FKW-4999 $8.95

Luttys Chevy Warehouse www.luttyschevy.com (http://www.luttyschevy.com) (I picked up the parts locally at a swap meet but they would be available at Ground Up as well if you want to order at only one place)
1. Flywheel Cover GM# 03843943 Luttys # 5079 $23.95
2. Brake Pad #941 $4.95
3. Clutch Pad #941 $4.95
4. Crossmember Mount # 3225 (only used to replace worn mount) $10.95
5. Shift Boot Ring w/o Console #3231 $59.95
6. Shift Boot w/o Console #451 $24

www.Thepartsplaceinc.com
1. Pedals MT3661V $89 (Appear to be USA made and solid.)

Nappa
1. Throwout Bearing # BRG B656 $2.48 (spare)
2. GL4 Gear Oil SL SL24229 qty (2) $16.88

Advance Auto
1. Starter with offset iron nose AC-Delco # 5220718 $44.99

GM Dealership
1. Clutch Fork GM #3892632 $62.48
2. Speedometer Gears (to be determined)

Notes:
I chose not to install the Neutral safety switch and Reverse Lockout. A longer speedometer cable may be needed for later year muncies with the attachment on the passenger side of the case.

　
　
　
　

Thanks, really good info.

Good homework!

thank's for the info bocefus, & the time spent . i know it will come in handy for this boy . m-20 sitting on the bench .

You went thru all that work and we have to add it all up for a total $?/lol!!!!!!!

Scott

You went thru all that work and we have to add it all up for a total $?/lol!!!!!!!

Scott

He doesn't want to know the total.:D

Well it looks like it comes out to $1,912.51. A few hundred could have been shaved off by going with a stock AC Delco clutch and flywheel, but I decided it was worth the upgrade to Centerforce. It is an expensive swap for sure, but should be worth it.:D

Thanks for the list! Just getting back on my '70 project. She has been sitting for a few years at my father's house. Just moved a couple months ago, so I now have room for her in the garage!
Replacing the turbo400 with a Muncie. Have most parts I need but your list will give me a refresher! Thanks again!

As always guy's your allstars in my book, every time I've had a problem I can always turn to this group to get the right answer's. Again thanks.


Jimbo

What about the 2 piece plate that holds the steering column at the firewall ! And the gasket for it.

Z-bar? Frame bracket for Zbar? And the 2 bolts for the bracket.

return spring

clutch fork rod

clutch pedal rod = (from clutch pedal arm to z bar)

fwiw, call or stop by your local machine shop. They might have a used flywheel that they would sell you. And most can clean and glass bead it and machine it for you. As well as check the balance on it.
Centerforce listed at $289 above. You could save a lot of money here !
I suspect you could get one for $125 or less. Not to mention the shipping cost savings.

I know this is an older thread. I've got all the parts lined up for my four speed conversion. Do you have to change the plate the bolts to the firewall on the inside where the pedals attach to? I have read conflicting reports on the subject.

You dont have to change it but you do need to drill a large hole in it. I'm not sure but the hole is something like 1.25" or 1.33" Its in the assembly manual.
Ron

Is that hole for the clutch pedal pushrod?

Is that hole for the clutch pedal pushrod?
Yes, and the rubber boot that goes with it. Its heavy steel, you will need a good holesaw.

I know this is an older thread. I've got all the parts lined up for my four speed conversion. Do you have to change the plate the bolts to the firewall on the inside where the pedals attach to? I have read conflicting reports on the subject.
Check out this page and see if it answers your question. Pedal Brackets (http://4speedconversions.com/GM-pedal-brackets)
Russ

Well it looks like it comes out to $1,912.51. A few hundred could have been shaved off by going with a stock AC Delco clutch and flywheel, but I decided it was worth the upgrade to Centerforce. It is an expensive swap for sure, but should be worth it.:D

I think I got lucky in a lot of ways. I don't have anywhere near $1,900 in my four speed conversion. I believe the single most expensive group of parts I will buy will be the clutch linkage stuff. I have it in the works to buy a complete linkage set up for around $200. I guess it does pay off to have a dad ,and a lot of his friends, that have stashed parts over the years. A lot of the stuff I either got a good deal on, or I dug it out of storage and my dad let me use it.

Thanks Ron and Russ for the information. I was thinking the entire plate that mounted to the firewall was different. Now that I have seena clear picture of that pedal bracket it should be no big deal use a holesaw and cut the hole for the pushrod and boot. Does the hole also have to be cut in the firewall as well, or is it already there?

Mikey, the hole in the firewall is already there. You can remove the plate to drill it if you want or you can just leave it in place to drill it. Like I said, you need a GOOD holesaw to drill it.
Good luck with it.
Ron

I think I got lucky
in a lot of ways.

I guess it does pay off
to have a dad



Yes, a Dad can be a very good investment. ;)

Nice list there.

Just had the swap done in my Skylark from a column shift auto. had the correct 4 speed column, reverse lockout installed etc..basically like factory. Did use Billet flywheel, centerforce dual friction clutch, aluminum driveshaft. I'm over $3200 with someone doing the work ( expert 4 speed guru) But boy its worth every penny in my book.

I just tallied it up and I've got about $540 in my four speed conversion. Like I said, I got quite a few good deals from people I know, and got a few free parts from my dads parts stash.

I was just thinking about this since all I am doing now is waiting on the last few parts to show up. Will it be easier to pull the dash out of the car when doing the work with the pedals? Or will it be fairly easy just taking the driver side seat out?

Neither, just lay on your back and use a good flashlight, pop the clip off and slide the brake pedal off then slide the other pedals on, replace the clip. You need the plastic bushings for the replacement pedal.
If a fat 50 year old like me can do it I know young guy like you can get under there.
Ron

Thanks, Ron.

The person I bought the clutch linkage stuff from said it was a complete kit so the bushings should be there. The only thing left to do is replace the fan clutch, or just get a mechanical fan. Then it will just be a matter of all the swear words that are required to get everything into place. ;)

I attached a picture of the plate that is under the dash in my '71. I know it's a blurry picture, but you can see the rod. Is there an approximate area I should make the cut with the hole saw? If someone could save my picture, edit it, and re post it it would be much appreciated.

I attached a picture of the plate that is under the dash in my '71. I know it's a blurry picture, but you can see the rod. Is there an approximate area I should make the cut with the hole saw? If someone could save my picture, edit it, and re post it it would be much appreciated.

Michael, Just use the firewall boot retainer that I bought from Ground Up as a pattern to cut the hole. Put the boot retainer in place and outline the hole thats on the boot retainer onto the firewall. Firewall boot retainer FV-1521 $14.95

The swap is finally done. One issue was the aftermarket Zbar bracket in the Ground Up Pedal linkage kit. It did not follow the curvature of the frame, therefore leaving a gap between the frame and the bracket end that attaches to the Zbar. This gap, in addition to the thin, weaker metal of the bracket, caused the bracket to flex when the clutch was applied. This condition would eventually cause it to break. The angle of the bracket was not correct as well. It did not directly face the Z-bar/engine block like an original does. Much time was wasted trying to get it to work. The Z-bar itself seems to work fine. I got lucky and found an original z-bar bracket in the classifieds that works perfect. So you need to either make one, or find an original. The aftermarket ones are inadequate.

I have had this swap done for over two months now. ;)

I cheated when I did mine, I found a 71 elcamino for sale. the seller kept the 396 out of it and sold me the rest of the truck with the 621 bell housing, M20 tranny. basically every nut and bolt except the 454 flywheel for 1300 bucks. manual tranny console was included! jim

There is no difference in the consoles, it's just the top plate.

Let me add something that was barely touched on, but not made clear. It's regarding the frame bracket installation for the Z-bar.

ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 68-later frames (NO MATTER WHAT TRANNY CAME IN THE CAR FROM THE FACTORY) have the 2 holes already punched in the frame for the Z-bar bracket. When changing from auto to manual tranny, the necessary 2 bolts are already on your car!!!!! The bracket that is bolted to the inside driver's side of the frame for the auto tranny shifter cross shaft used those same 2 bolts! :thumbsup:
They are a self threading bolt. Since no threads have ever been cut in the holes for the Z-bar bracket, you simply need to use a socket and use lots of down pressure on the bolts until the threads begin to cut into the holes. Once the bolt threads make a good bite, simply keep screwing the bolts into the holes until the threads are made. TOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy! :thumbsup:

You rock, Tom. You know that but I am telling you again anyway.

Good lord I dont know how you keep all of this stuff in your head. Cars, planes, muncies, numbers, history and disco :D

I have to look at notes to know what I did yesterday. I dont know how you keep it right there, all the time. Some kind of automotive and airplane savant. Wish I knew 1/3 of what you probably chose to forget.

Let me add something that was barely touched on, but not made clear. It's regarding the frame bracket installation for the Z-bar.

ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 68-later frames (NO MATTER WHAT TRANNY CAME IN THE CAR FROM THE FACTORY) have the 2 holes already punched in the frame for the Z-bar bracket. When changing from auto to manual tranny, the necessary 2 bolts are already on your car!!!!! The bracket that is bolted to the inside driver's side of the frame for the auto tranny shifter cross shaft used those same 2 bolts! :thumbsup:
They are a self threading bolt. Since no threads have ever been cut in the holes for the Z-bar bracket, you simply need to use a socket and use lots of down pressure on the bolts until the threads begin to cut into the holes. Once the bolt threads make a good bite, simply keep screwing the bolts into the holes until the threads are made. TOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy! :thumbsup:

I may have to respectfully disagree on that last bit, Tom. I seem to recall having a time getting the bolts started. I would get the bolt set in the hole and I would start trying to turn it. It took a bit of trying to get the bolt to bite. Not to mention trying to finnagle a wrench up there to keep it going. None the less it is very doable though. :)

Try using a gear wrench and a makeshift prybar to apply pressure. Not trying to be a wiseass, just a helpful tip.

Jerry

[QUOTE]ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 68-later frames (NO MATTER WHAT TRANNY CAME IN THE CAR FROM THE FACTORY) have the 2 holes already punched in the frame for the Z-bar bracket. When changing from auto to manual tranny, the necessary 2 bolts are already on your car!!!!!The bracket that is bolted to the inside driver's side of the frame for the auto tranny shifter cross shaft used those same 2 bolts! My 4,000 mile original 69 had the Z-bar bracket welded to the top of the frame. The two holes for the auto tranny shifter cross shaft were used for the backdrive linkage.
Russ