Dynacorn has released the pricing on the 70-72 coupe & vert - Build yourself a "new" Chevelle starting with this. $14,500 I saw the ad in the new Hemmings Muscle Machines & checked out the website.

http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/images/CamaroFirebird09.pdf

It's down at the bottom.

LK

Do they require you to already own a car of that body style? There is a huge issue with this as far as the VIN and titling goes.

I saw one last year at the Performance World car show in Toronto.
They sell under Golden Leaf here I guess.
I think it would be an easier way to go if you have a ruster.

Dave

Do they require you to already own a car of that body style?


nope !:noway: more ls6 converts and sedans are gonna be found now l:)

I suspect that the registration process will vary widely from state to state. It probably would help a lot if there was a rustbucket donor with a clear title. If the only part of the donor body used just happened to be a few pounds of sheet metal that included the VIN tag area, that would speed things up. Makes me wonder if there are any Federal rules that cover this type of registration. Here in AZ, they can issue two titles for a donor car; one for the body and one for the frame. That helps when doing a frame change, as the frame has legitimate documentation.

Its a Kit Car and nothing more, you use it and change the vin- your breaking the Federal Laws. Made in China

Do they require you to already own a car of that body style? There is a huge issue with this as far as the VIN and titling goes.

What do you think is going to happen to avoid those problems? Some people will just find a rusted out car with proper title, VIN, cowl tag and documents and swap the stuff over :sad:. It will only be loose lips that will sink the ship.

My thoughts are that taking a VIN tag (alone) and moving it to another vehicle is clearly illegal. But what if you cut a car in half, replaced the rear 50% and kept it registered as the front half with the VIN still in place? Ok, now start fiddling with the idea of changing the percentages. Would replacing 99% of the sheetmetal and keeping the VIN portion of the body registered just as before by a violation? The VIN tag would have kept its rivets in place all along. No violation of that rule. Home built aircraft have the 51% rule to get home built licensing. Fifty-one percent of the work has to be done by the builder. What is the rule for cars to keep the original registration? How much of a car can be replaced before the original registration is invalid?

If it's like the Camaro, it won't be hard to spot the fakes. The metal will be too thin.

Made in China, or made in Taiwan? I though the fake Camaro body was from Taiwan.

There are a lot of kit car Cobras and such on the road. I would imagine that these bodies would go through the same registration process.

What do you think is going to happen to avoid those problems? Some people will just find a rusted out car with proper title, VIN, cowl tag and documents and swap the stuff over :sad:. It will only be loose lips that will sink the ship.

"
The "Don't Ask......Don't Tell" policy for Chevelles. I suspect a few will be "remanufactured" using this process. As always, it will take vigilance on our part to be able to spot this. I am sure sombody will come up with a sure fire way to spot them soon enough.

Now remember, I am not saying it is wrong to build a Chevelle using one of these. All I am saying is, it would clearly be fraud to swap VIN plates, and pass it off as an original car. Don't pass the smell test in my book.

Jeff Dotterer
Dated Components
Diamond Restored Judge

"
The "Don't Ask......Don't Tell" policy for Chevelles. I suspect a few will be "remanufactured" using this process. As always, it will take vigilance on our part to be able to spot this. I am sure sombody will come up with a sure fire way to spot them soon enough.

Now remember, I am not saying it is wrong to build a Chevelle using one of these. All I am saying is, it would clearly be fraud to swap VIN plates, and pass it off as an original car. Don't pass the smell test in my book.

Jeff Dotterer
Dated Components
Diamond Restored Judge

Your right Jeff, I guess it just makes me feel bad that this could be made so easy to do and more importantly cause grief to an unsuspecting buyer. It just may give more credence about having a #2 day car.

I guess I don't get it. Long as someone isn't trying to pass one of these off as an original GM body, where's the fraud? Not switching the tags to a stolen car. Seems the same as replacing a fender to me. I'm sure they will be same as all the other repro parts, they'll get you to 85-90% of the original part, but then drop the ball, and repros will be easy to spot if you know what you're looking for. Would you rather have an original with a 55 gal drum of Bondo in it?

go tot the back of any body shop and see the half cars that are back there because somebody smashed their car and that is how the body shop is going to fix it.

my friend had a chevy bretta z26 and he got pushed into a ditch folding the car in the center. the body shop cut from half of the A piller back and welded another car to it never knew they did that until he went to sell it.

I would imagine at least in AZ you just take it down the dmv have a level 1 inspection, they will run the numbers on the frame to make sure they dont come up stolen. If its a factory frame, They will check the frame numbers, if you dont have a title, you'll have to go bonded. After you get the bonded title for the frame, they will install another vin plate (aluminum sticker with the number typed in with a old school typewriter). Not really that big of a deal. jim

This seems like a great opportunity to build a fleet of new LS7 cars.

What do you think is going to happen to avoid those problems? Some people will just find a rusted out car with proper title, VIN, cowl tag and documents and swap the stuff over :sad:. It will only be loose lips that will sink the ship.

That's exactly what will happen. I've registered a lot of cars in a lot of states and as long as the paperwork was in order NO ONE ever left their counter and inspected the car. Florida did send an old retired guy out and all he does is look at the paperwork and makes sure the vin in the windshield matches. He has no clue at what he's looking at!

Some years ago there was a court case in England about this. It seems as long as there was at least one piece of old metal from the original car it was considered a repaired vehicle, nothing more.

It involved a 1908 or so Rolls Royce. A guy had completely rebuilt the thing and was sued for fraud. The court said it wasn't. I suspect we will see similar suits here.

Ron

There must be a way around it. Look at all the glass 32 ford kits reg'd as a 32 ford. And as was mentioned, a ton of ac cobras. I would ask the body builder before I laid down the cash, but it will sure make life easier for the phonies.

I guess I don't get it. Long as someone isn't trying to pass one of these off as an original GM body, where's the fraud? Not switching the tags to a stolen car. Seems the same as replacing a fender to me. I'm sure they will be same as all the other repro parts....Would you rather have an original with a 55 gal drum of Bondo in it? I agree with Jim on this^....

I've registered a lot of cars in a lot of states and as long as the paperwork was in order...

Florida did send an old retired guy out and all he does is look at the paperwork and makes sure the vin in the windshield matches.


Exactly.
If you have paperwork that's "in order" on a 40 year old car, and the VIN on the dash matches it, I think it wouldn't be extremely difficult to fool many state's DMV's or "inspectors"...if a fellow had an inclination to do so.
I believe it's happened...and continues to happen...a lot.

Also, I can relate to Murphy's description of the "inspector."
The DMV "inspector" (an older guy) who came out and looked at my '68 back in 2007, essentially shined a penlight through the windshield at the VIN tag and wrote the numbers down on his form.
He then lit up a fresh smoke and we BS'd for several minutes about what I was going to barbecue on the upcoming weekend, etc.

A nice guy, but I guarantee you that fellow has probably been fooled a lot.
He's probably had so much wool pulled over his eyes through the years that he looks like a sheep.

Regards,
-Greg

...it won't be hard to spot the fakes. The metal will be too thin.

Made in China, or made in Taiwan?



Would replacing 99% of the sheetmetal and keeping the VIN portion of the body...be a violation?

How much of a car can be replaced before the original registration is invalid?


Yes, is there a certain percentage of Taiwan sheetmetal, beyond which, a car is defined as a "fake" Chevelle?

From what I understand, Goodmark replacement sheetmetal is made in Taiwan (even their own website states it comes from "overseas"), probably from the same Taiwanese plant that makes the Dynacorn shells.

Let's say a fellow has a rusty Chevelle project and he replaces both doors, both quarters, the floor, and the trunk floor with sheetmetal from Taiwan.
Does he now have a "fake?"

How does replacing most of the shell with sheetmetal from Taiwan differ from replacing the entire shell with sheetmetal from Taiwan?

What percentage of sheetmetal from Taiwan represents a demarcation line that seperates a "fake" Chevelle from a real Chevelle?

Regards,
-Greg

I agree, on cars like this the WHOLE interior is usually redone, the engine mostly gone thru, tires, glass often, mirrors, suspension new, wheels, much sheet metal... Even when using NOS parts, they are NOT the same car!

At some point, most "show cars" are near to George Washington's axe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus#George_Washington.27s_axe)

I think MOST people will use this to restore their rustbucket, using original frame and VIN. We've seen some on here that qualify!

"
The "Don't Ask......Don't Tell" policy for Chevelles. I suspect a few will be "remanufactured" using this process. As always, it will take vigilance on our part to be able to spot this. I am sure sombody will come up with a sure fire way to spot them soon enough.

Now remember, I am not saying it is wrong to build a Chevelle using one of these. All I am saying is, it would clearly be fraud to swap VIN plates, and pass it off as an original car. Don't pass the smell test in my book.

Jeff Dotterer
Dated Components
Diamond Restored Judge

One tell tale sign will be looking at the firewall. The reproduction firewalls do not have all the dimples OEM ones have.

It's only funny to me because there are so many enthusiasts who gripe about the lack of parts availability for their cars, and here's a bunch of enthusiasts griping over whether the reproduction parts will make their cars 'real' or not.

I think this is cool. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford one anyway, so it doesn't really matter. But I'd much rather have one of these bodies than an original one that's had new quarters and rockers welded on it, and new floors installed. There are plenty of those around, and no one questions them. Same goes for Bondo buckets...I'll take one of these new bodies over that kind of mess any day.

I'm not a resto/numbers guy either. Couldn't care less about all that, since it's not what I'd ever buy a car for. I like hot rods, and one of these new bodies would make a fine street machine out of a rusty 307-equipped factory pile from the Rust Belt.

Dynacorn had a display (w/ Chevelle body) at HAN last August. I talked with the rep and he told me the sheetmetal was THICKER than the OEM stuff. He said they were 'interviewing' shops to build a car for display/advertising. Maybe we'll see one at SEMA.

Here in CA, when it all comes down to brass "tax" it's likely going to be about the money... If one pays for the inspections and one pays the licensing fees, it will ultimately go through. As already stated, so many cars have so much replacement iron in them already, that as long as it fits and it's safe, truly - what's the difference?

In the building industry, it used to be that if you left one wall of an old cabin intact (even an interior wall) and you incorporated it into the construction of a huge new home several times larger, it was still considered a remodel as opposed to new construction, which saved thousand$ in permit fees. Taking that line to using one of these shells, I suspect the laws are not currently written to consider how much sheet metal from a firewall must be incorporated into this new shell, but if I cut off a 12" x 12" piece that included the VIN tag it would likely be technically legal since I am retaining the original metal and not cutting the rivets that hold the tag. As to the hidden VINS around the heater or on the frame rails, it would also probably be included in the same consideration as sheet metal replacement and/or a new frame.

This is all about the money guys...

BTW, didn't Boyd Cottington get in trouble for this stuff several years back? How do they do those cars?

I'll bet the repro body will be simulair to most repro component parts. People in the know will be able to spot a repro body from an original GM body. :yes:

With this said, all of our originals WILL retain their value.:thumbsup:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think all this means is:

1. more '70 Chevelles will be around.
2. repro market will have to make more parts, that are currently not avalible.
3. the cost of NOS parts will go even higher.
4. the supply of NOS parts will progressively be depleated.
5. and maybe, just maybe force the repro market to make better parts.

I think it's cool! Thanks for the link! at least now if i'm going to spend $20,000 on a rag top malibu, it won't be some bondo bucket, or clapped out junk that i've gotta replace all the sheetmetal on, it'll be a clean all new metal car..

I'll bet the repro body will be simulair to most repro component parts. People in the know will be able to spot a repro body from an original GM body. :yes:

With this said, all of our originals WILL retain their value.:thumbsup:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think all this means is:

1. more '70 Chevelles will be around.
2. repro market will have to make more parts, that are currently not avalible.
3. the cost of NOS parts will go even higher.
4. the supply of NOS parts will progressively be depleated.
5. and maybe, just maybe force the repro market to make better parts.

Remember this is being marketed as a 1970 but since it comes sans front clip it can be used for '70-'72.

I am totally against this reproduction body crap. I don't think it should have been ever allowed to happen. I am sure the quality is about as good as all of the other junk repro parts too!

Remember this is being marketed as a 1970 but since it comes sans front clip it can be used for '70-'72.

Those "in the know" already realize that the convertible body shell shown in the ads is a 71-72 shell, not a 70.

It's only funny to me because there are so many enthusiasts who gripe about the lack of parts availability for their cars, and here's a bunch of enthusiasts griping over whether the reproduction parts will make their cars 'real' or not.

I think this is cool. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford one anyway, so it doesn't really matter. But I'd much rather have one of these bodies than an original one that's had new quarters and rockers welded on it, and new floors installed. There are plenty of those around, and no one questions them. Same goes for Bondo buckets...I'll take one of these new bodies over that kind of mess any day.

I'm not a resto/numbers guy either. Couldn't care less about all that, since it's not what I'd ever buy a car for. I like hot rods, and one of these new bodies would make a fine street machine out of a rusty 307-equipped factory pile from the Rust Belt.

I agree with everything you say Scott and if it could left at that then no harm done. It's the people who knowingly retag the car and try to pass it off as if came off a GM factory floor when it did not. At what point is a car considered still factory "original" if say the only thing left from the original car is say the firewall or the left upper ball joint? Personally I have no clue where to draw the line. I guess this debate can go on forever!

Those "in the know" already realize that the convertible body shell shown in the ads is a 71-72 shell, not a 70.

Not an expert, but what's the difference on the '70 convert to the '71-'72 in the add?

I know if my '72 coupe had serious damage in the rear, I'd seriously consider getting one of these. But my car is a driver definitely not a show car or even close to a numbers car.
Don

I cannot figure out why I am so damn offended by this but I am......maybe I just hate fakes and this one, on the fake scale, exceeds a clone. Well, atleast the REAL clone guys now will have someone to pick on.....and us non clone guys...man, we're home free to pee on everyone.

Maybe I am excited about it. Very confused......

In the ads that i have seen, the rear seat back has the impression for the 71-72 emissions equipment in the seat area. The 70 rear seat panel is flat across and is not recessed to clear the metal canister that protrudes through the floor.

In the ads that i have seen, the rear seat back has the impression for the 71-72 emissions equipment in the seat area. The 70 rear seat panel is flat across and is not recessed to clear the metal canister that protrudes through the floor.

Thanks, makes sense..... couldn't see it from the ad - Don

I think these are cool. You could order a body, high performance frame with C5 suspension setup with a LS7 engine and build exactly what I want. The good thing with is, you don't have all the parts left over from what was originally on the car to store or get rid of. I probably won't ever be able to afford one of these either, but if I hit to lottery tonight, I'll probably order one of each :D that '55 truck would be pretty :cool:

As to the people that try to pass these off as rare cars, well there is a place for them to go....and they probably will if you believe in that kind of thing. Otherwise a box set of 'My Name is Earl" would be a good gift.

If I get one I will get a fake rolex, an escort with fake boobs, a stolen chipped cellphone, cubic zirconia pendant on a fools gold chain, dentures, glue on some chest hair, get penis, calf and chest implant and will install a chinese stereo system with NAV / GPS software that I will buy from a street vendor in china.

If im going fake then I am going FAKE - full tilt, no half stepping it. If you do it then do it right.

This message brought to you by Harbor Freight Tools - "The only thing better than doing it right is doing it thrice with imitation tools....for no damn good reason"

Watch out as you may see some states that will make you title it as a current year car therefore making it have to meet the current EPA standards!
This is something I think was being fought out in Ca.and SEMA was trying to hammer out the details.
If I remember Boyd got hammered for building the aftermarket rods and titiling them as the year the car represented instead of as a new car of the current year! or maybe I have it backwards, I must be getting old!!!:sad:

I'd say if you used just the cowl section of an existing body that would suffice to use the original title from it!

I cannot figure out why I am so damn offended by this but I am...maybe I just hate fakes...we're home free to pee on everyone.


But Beaux, with that mindset, you tend to develop a tiered echelon of Chevelles, with the guys who have matching numbers, original sheetmetal Chevelles at the very top of the echelon, free to "pee" on everyone...including you.

I fail to see why some guys have no problem with a fellow replacing a large amount of a Chevelle with aftermarket Taiwan sheetmetal...full quarters, doors, full floorpans, trunk floor, perhaps the roof, and even replace the entire frame with a donor...and the car is still considered "legitimate" to them.
But, if that one relatively small cowl area of sheetmetal (which holds the VIN tag) is replaced, and its VIN tag reattached to the new sheetmetal, then the car is somehow seen as bogus to them.

As I asked in my previous post, is there a demarcation line that determines what amount of aftermarket Taiwan sheetmetal makes a car bogus?

Personally, I don't have a problem with a guy replacing the shell of his very rusty project with a new, rust free, aftermarket shell.
Because I don't see that it's much different than replacing a large part of the shell with aftermarket sheetmetal and parts...it's the same difference.
I think it's good that another rusty Chevelle is being saved

The only thing I don't like to see is a numbers matching car molested.
If the car isn't numbers matching in the first place, then I don't think it makes much difference how the project owner restores it.

For the sake of discussion, I'll pose this scenario to you...

Let's say there are two Chevelle owners.
One guy has a 70 SS with its original numbers matching drivetrain, but a very rusty shell. Let's say he replaces the shell with an aftermarket shell...but his numbers matching SS drivetrain is still intact.

The other 70 SS has had its entire drivetrain replaced with an aftermarket drivetrain, but has "only" had its full quarters, doors and floorpan replaced.

Now, which guy has the real thing...or closest to it?
Which guy has "peeing rights" over the other?

Regards,
-Greg

I am totally against this reproduction body crap. I don't think it should have been ever allowed to happen. I am sure the quality is about as good as all of the other junk repro parts too!

It's a double edged sword. They do it with 32 Fords and other kit cars, been doing it for years, and now with Tri Five chevys. It was only a matter of time before it trickled down further. My personal opinion is that Dynacorn should be required to issue manufacturer VIN's to the bodies they are selling. I remember Boyd Coddington's shop got in trouble for this about 5 years ago. If they issued manufacturer VINS to the bodies, I don't see an issue with making them. That way, they can never be passed off as a real 1970 Chevelle.

I'm going to have to disagree about the quality of some of the aftermarket panels used to make the body. The pieces Dynacorn, has, specifically the 70-72 floor, trunk floor, roof panel, wheel houses actually fit pretty well. The hood, fenders, and quarters are not as good as the ones Goodmark can supply are. The other thing is..you can get all of these parts individually the only difference is you would have to weld them together. So is there really a difference between Dynacorn welding it together, or some guy in his back yard welding it together.
The other key point I forgot to bring up was the trim tag. You can't get one unless you already own a car and can prove ownership. I suppose you can get a state issued VIN, but the car will be subjected to current year inspection standards. But I suppose if the car has a manufacturer issued VIN, it doesn't need a trim tag on it.

It's a double edged sword. They do it with 32 Fords and other kit cars, been doing it for years, and now with Tri Five chevys. It was only a matter of time before it trickled down further. My personal opinion is that Dynacorn should be required to issue manufacturer VIN's to the bodies they are selling. I remember Boyd Coddington's shop got in trouble for this about 5 years ago. If they issued manufacturer VINS to the bodies, I don't see an issue with making them. That way, they can never be passed off as a real 1970 Chevelle.

I'm going to have to disagree about the quality of some of the aftermarket panels used to make the body. The pieces Dynacorn, has, specifically the 70-72 floor, trunk floor, roof panel, wheel houses actually fit pretty well. The hood, fenders, and quarters are not as good as the ones Goodmark can supply are. The other thing is..you can get all of these parts individually the only difference is you would have to weld them together. So is there really a difference between Dynacorn welding it together, or some guy in his back yard welding it together.
The other key point I forgot to bring up was the trim tag. You can't get one unless you already own a car and can prove ownership. I suppose you can get a state issued VIN, but the car will be subjected to current year inspection standards. But I suppose if the car has a manufacturer issued VIN, it doesn't need a trim tag on it.

Totally agree. There should be a law that requires these manufactures to issue pre manufactured vins. Stamped right into the firewall and several other locations visible to the naked eye without having to move or duck down to see it. Just like any car you buy from an OEM manufacturer.

It is also my understanding that the state of CA had an issue with Boyd mostly because of the lost revinue in taxes with the way they were titling thier builds.

As for Dynacorn. I have a friend who is doing a 72 W code El Camino and has used several Dynacorn panels and he says they fit great. I even got to see that fact personally.

how many rebuildable cars have we seen cut up for parts and we say that could have been restored. Now there is another option. who knows maybe a person will go this route (new shell) and leave some other car to us poor folk to rebuild. jim

I'll be totally honest here....... after thinking about it for a while I have come to the conclusion.........that I really have no idea how I feel about this! I can clearly see both sides of the discussion but I guess there are a lot of circumstances to consider..

Like others have stated, this is done in the collision repair industry every day.. But swapping out an old vin tag and title from a rusted POS to a brand new body would make it fraudulent in my eyes.. How can you sell a car as a classic if the only original part on the car is the frame????

It remains to be seen how each state will handle the registration and title questions. If I recall, some states had rules for motorcycles built all from aftermarket parts that would limit an individual to registering a very few over some period of years. However, many states do not smog test cycles , so that question is not answered.

I know a guy who has rebodied some Chevelles & what pisses me off the most he passed them off as originals too boot. I don't have a problem if the person does not try to pass it off as an original. It is just a matter of someone being in the car collection industry trying to make a quick buck. One redeeming point he did get sued for one of his creations.

...would make it fraudulent in my eyes.
How can you sell a car as a classic if the only original part on the car is the frame?


Actually, the shell consists of the body from the firewall back...not the entire body.

But Scott, following your line of reasoning, you could also ask...how can you sell a car as a "classic" when it has full quarters, doors, and full floorpans from Taiwan, an engine from out of a truck, a replacement transmission, and a different rear end?

Could you please explain to me the difference?

Keep in mind that personally I have no problem with someone replacing his shell or replacing a lot of sheetmetal on his original shell...or replacing his engine and transmission for that matter.
If a fellow has a rusted project with no engine, then he has to do what he has to do to restore it.

I'm just amused that some people think it's okay to replace almost every portion of sheetmetal on an original shell...full quarters, doors, full floor pans, even the roof...replace the engine, transmission, and rear end, and the car is still a "classic."
But, these same people think that if the relatively small area of sheetmetal that contains the VIN is also replaced, then the car somehow is "fraudulent" as you say.

Regards,
-Greg

...............

For the sake of discussion, I'll pose this scenario to you...

Let's say there are two Chevelle owners.

One guy has a 70 SS with its original numbers matching drivetrain, but a very rusty shell. Let's say he replaces the shell with an aftermarket shell...but his numbers matching SS drivetrain is still intact.

The other 70 SS has had its entire drivetrain replaced with an aftermarket drivetrain, but has "only" had its full quarters, doors and floorpan replaced.

Now, which guy has the real thing...or closest to it?
Which guy has "peeing rights" over the other?

Regards,
-Greg

Greg, in my opinion and in the cases you have presented neither is the "real thing" and as far as the "closest to it" is concerned, it is up to the buyer to decide that after full disclosure from the seller. If the car is not for sale then the owner can think what he wants, its his car. I'm not going to "pee" on his parade.

The EPA thing that Papa Johns 77 brought up though is a very interesting twist to all of this considering all the attention the environment is getting these days...

I am just having a hard time with this one. You cannot remake vintage america. If someone builds another wall in china its still not the great wall of china. If the car has an original foundation then to me its ok to do what you need / want to to build it back up from an original foundation. If you knock the great wall down but for the very base and build it back up to me thats still the great wall.

Tear it out, move it 5 feet either direction and build a new one - its not the great wall of china. Its a sham of a fake tribute to it without the same history, intentions, and memory behind it.

These, in my mind, will NEVER be a Chevelle. They may be a car. They will NEVER be a chevelle (to me)...no more than an AC Cobra kit car deserves to be called a Shelby Cobra. Its not. Its its own deal, its own car and it doesnt deserve any of the name or badging.

IMHO - the ONLY car that you can do this with - to build from full new old stock, to spec, from the manufacturer is Ferrari. But that is because of Ferrari and their retaining and being able and willing to tool up old stuff, to original spec, from original designs, in original factories with original or improved upon original methods. But even then you need a foundation. And I believe even then you need to prove ownership.

Im tired of all the "fake" in the world. Im tired of people not leaving well enough OR GONE - alone. Same reason I hated the Indiana Jones and Star Wars remakes, same reason I shake my head at kids wearing stuff that I thought sucked in the 80's when it WAS the 80's....cartoons....everything. Trying to bring back vintage America, in my opinion, is DESTROYING vintage America. And it should be very, very hard to bring back a memory of vintage america like a resto. you should have to work at it. It shouldnt be easy and when its done it should be a valid and true representation by having a foundation to its history. Again, all my opinion only and to reiterate I am not even sure why it bothers me so much.

Its all coming together for me with this. I dont know why, please dont ask.

IMHO - the ONLY car that you can do this with - to build from full new old stock, to spec, from the manufacturer is Ferrari. But that is because of Ferrari and their retaining and being able and willing to tool up old stuff, to original spec, from original designs, in original factories with original or improved upon original methods. But even then you need a foundation. And I believe even then you need to prove ownership.



Not true Beaux..you can do it to a DeLorean too :yes:

Gee thanks Alwhite00 I'm now torn on the matter. On one had I like "real" stuff because it adds to the cool factor.
On the other hand I will Never own a real 66 Cobra. I always wanted to build one and would trade my "real " SS for a kit FF Cobra all day. Argg You what to do I say lol.
Should Any of this stuff be used under the same name I say no.

I have come to the conclusion.........that I really have no idea how I feel about this!

Scott, have another beer and don't worry about it. :D

As far as this thread goes... http://chevellestuff.com/forums/images/smilies/beatdeadhorse5.gif

To me a vin tag doesnt make a car run any better or worse. If the new shells bother some folks, best advice is dont bother buying one. On the other hand, for those that can afford a body shell, and wants to spend the money, thats great. It's like how many of us here like the SS/cowl hoods on the 70-72? Now, some will but most will not spend $1500 for a NOS hood, but we'll spend 300 bucks for a repop. Any of you gun nuts? Look at a AK47 well sorry to say what we're calling AK47's in this country isnt a AK47, unless you spent 30,000 bucks on a real one. All the rest of the "legal" rifles are clones that isnt even fully automatic. Art buff's buy litho prints of the mona lisa, etc. jim

Well it has started for some. I talked to a friend in Nevada tonight that I used to work with. I found a rust bucket 70 LS6 for him about 20 years ago for parts for another he was restoring.
I delivered it to him and in his pole barn he had a 71 SS454 Chevelle convertible and the 70 LS6 he was restoring. He never got around to finishing any of them.
I asked him if he was following the news on the chevelle bodies. His answer was he was buying 3 as soon as the check comes from the sale of two of his trucks. Said he was going to "make them new again"! Said he thought he might keep te convertible and send the 70's through Barrett Jackson when they are done.

You cannot remake vintage america...
...Trying to bring back vintage America, in my opinion, is DESTROYING vintage America.

These, in my mind, will NEVER be a Chevelle.

...If you knock the great wall (of China) down but for the very base and build it back up to me thats still the great wall.

You make some valid points Beaux, on the other hand, I've looked at the pictures of your '70 project (great build quality so far :thumbsup:) and it's obvious you're not restoring it to a vintage and stock condition.
You're restoring it and improving it the way you want.
You've even altered and improved the stock frame.

I think that's great, and when you're done I don't think your car will be any less of a Chevelle than a vintage, stock restored '70 SS.




you need a foundation...and when its done it should be a valid and true representation by having a foundation to its history.

Well then, that brings me back to my earlier post.
How much of a car can you replace before you take away its foundation?
What exactly, to you, is that foundation?
Does the shell represent the foundation to you?

Is it okay to replace the shell a piece at a time, but not the entire shell all at once?

As I stated earlier, if a fellow has a numbers matching '70 Chevelle SS and he replaces its very rusted shell with a new shell, has it lost its foundation?
Does the numbers matching drivetrain and the rest of the car not amount to some sort of a foundation?

On the other hand, if a fellow has a '70 SS whose original engine, transmission, and rear end have been replaced, and he also replaces both full quarters, both doors, full floor pans, and the trunk floor pan, would you still accept that as a piece of "vintage America" because the shell was piecemealed together, instead of being replaced all at once?

Regards,
-Greg

Actually, the shell consists of the body from the firewall back...not the entire body.

But Scott, following your line of reasoning, you could also ask...how can you sell a car as a "classic" when it has full quarters, doors, and full floorpans from Taiwan, an engine from out of a truck, a replacement transmission, and a different rear end?

Could you please explain to me the difference?

Keep in mind that personally I have no problem with someone replacing his shell or replacing a lot of sheetmetal on his original shell...or replacing his engine and transmission for that matter.
If a fellow has a rusted project with no engine, then he has to do what he has to do to restore it.

I'm just amused that some people think it's okay to replace almost every portion of sheetmetal on an original shell...full quarters, doors, full floor pans, even the roof...replace the engine, transmission, and rear end, and the car is still a "classic."
But, these same people think that if the relatively small area of sheetmetal that contains the VIN is also replaced, then the car somehow is "fraudulent" as you say.

Regards,
-Greg

First of all, did I not clearly state that I wasn't sure how I felt on this subject??? I was mearly stating the facts AS I SEE THEM...I also think it makes what I said more clear if you were to post the whole thought I had posted "But swapping out an old vin tag and title from a rusted POS to a brand new body would make it fraudulent in my eyes.. How can you sell a car as a classic if the only original part on the car is the frame???? " And secondly, this was posted as MY OPINION, if you don't agree with it that's fine, to his own ;)

I have no problem if people choose th do this, but IN MY EYES, this makes it more of a kit car then a classic..

You make some valid points Beaux, on the other hand, I've looked at the pictures of your '70 project (great build quality so far :thumbsup:) and it's obvious you're not restoring it to a vintage and stock condition.
You're restoring it and improving it the way you want.
You've even altered and improved the stock frame.

I think that's great, and when you're done I don't think your car will be any less of a Chevelle than a vintage, stock restored '70 SS.




Well then, that brings me back to my earlier post.
How much of a car can you replace before you take away its foundation?
What exactly, to you, is that foundation?
Does the shell represent the foundation to you?

Is it okay to replace the shell a piece at a time, but not the entire shell all at once?

As I stated earlier, if a fellow has a numbers matching '70 Chevelle SS and he replaces its very rusted shell with a new shell, has it lost its foundation?
Does the numbers matching drivetrain and the rest of the car not amount to some sort of a foundation?

On the other hand, if a fellow has a '70 SS whose original engine, transmission, and rear end have been replaced, and he also replaces both full quarters, both doors, full floor pans, and the trunk floor pan, would you still accept that as a piece of "vintage America" because the shell was piecemealed together, instead of being replaced all at once?

Regards,
-Greg


You make good points and I dont know how to answer. I should but I dont. I am trying to find out myself why I disapprove of this so much.

You are right about my car, a valid point for certain. But cowl shoulder was replaced on my car and metal was added to the floor where pinholes were but the shell and all other sheetmetal is factory. I guess a foundation for me is the skeleton. Exterior sheetmetal can be replaced for resto, accidents, whatever else. So I guess it boils down to what every other piece of sheetmetal bolts to....

Like I said I am very confused about this, even with my gut dislike of it. It may not even matter to our hobby, but it may matter very much as well. It may be no problem, maybe a big problem. It does bother me though either way. I'd like to never see potential problems and for me the easiest way to do that would be to stop this. Or to chastise people so much that they dont do it. Or to force a readily identifiable "This is a kit car" tag.

Either way - you have original air jordans and "tribute remakes"......Guess I am glad to have the originals because there is always something there that a remake can never obtain. Originality.

You make good points and I dont know how to answer. I should but I dont. I am trying to find out myself why I disapprove of this so much.

You are right about my car, a valid point for certain. But cowl shoulder was replaced on my car and metal was added to the floor where pinholes were but the shell and all other sheetmetal is factory. I guess a foundation for me is the skeleton. Exterior sheetmetal can be replaced for resto, accidents, whatever else. So I guess it boils down to what every other piece of sheetmetal bolts to....

Like I said I am very confused about this, even with my gut dislike of it. It may not even matter to our hobby, but it may matter very much as well. It may be no problem, maybe a big problem. It does bother me though either way. I'd like to never see potential problems and for me the easiest way to do that would be to stop this. Or to chastise people so much that they dont do it. Or to force a readily identifiable "This is a kit car" tag.

Either way - you have original air jordans and "tribute remakes"......Guess I am glad to have the originals because there is always something there that a remake can never obtain. Originality.


Well said Beaux !! That pretty much sums up the way I feel about it as well....

I could care less if someone puts a new body under a VIN if that's what they want to do. I don't see much difference in my mind to the same person who has to put floors, 1/4s and fenders on an original car. In smaller scale, it's along the lines of taking an original block, punching it out, then putting on all aftermarket guts, heads, intake, and tin.

In fact, those of us with original sheetmetal cars should be even more proud that we have one, but I can't take anything away from someone who would rather start with a fresh slate.

Think of it this way-if someone has a choice of buying an original car needing metal, they could bring it somewhere and put cheap crap on doing a bad job, or they could buy this and know it already fits together correctly.

Guess I am glad to have the originals because there is always something there that a remake can never obtain. Originality.


But Beaux, just as you would take exception to the "originality" of a Chevelle with a new shell, the owner of a numbers matching, stock restored '70 Chevelle SS would take exception to your claim of "originality" for your modified '70 project Chevelle.

It's all relative.
I don't think there's a clear cut answer on the validity of a Chevelle with one of these new shells...just opinions, which are all subjective.
Take care.

Regards,
-Greg

I really don't see the big deal... other than it's way too expensive.

But Beaux, just as you would take exception to the "originality" of a Chevelle with a new shell, the owner of a numbers matching, stock restored '70 Chevelle SS would take exception to your claim of "originality" for your modified '70 project Chevelle.

It's all relative.
I don't think there's a clear cut answer on the validity of a Chevelle with one of these new shells...just opinions, which are all subjective.
Take care.

Regards,
-Greg

True. Guess I should revise and state that I meant originality in that it came originally from GM, not in its original configuration from GM. But I fall back to the skeleton, not parts.

Guess im done because I am confusing myself even more.

Whatever, I guess. :D

It's only funny to me because there are so many enthusiasts who gripe about the lack of parts availability for their cars, and here's a bunch of enthusiasts griping over whether the reproduction parts will make their cars 'real' or not. .

AMEN!!
-People want pie in the sky parts they cant get
-Someone comes out with them
-People bitch about it and pick it apart
-Company discontinues it
-Same people that never would have spent on it bitch again.

I think its awesome they are making this stuff and sure they thought about titling before they invested tons of money in this project. :sad:
Has anyone inquired about it or just posted here about it?

Man, I just can't get into the idea that china is making our chevelles. If they are like the replacement body parts the metal is weak and thin. try shutting a goodmark hood wrong and watch it self destruct with palm print/dents on the leading edge. Those bodies shouldn't cost any more than 4-5K

I have bought chinese repop doors for my 76 chevy p/u, they fit but had some funky compound bends that GM would ever have allowed. They were really complicated pressing of a two part (outer and inner door skins) though and they did fit so I have to give the chinese props for that, and they were 65 bucks each delivered by Keystone Body Parts. The windows and cranks went in great. They bolted up but you have to be a bit liberal in your allowable fit and finish.

40 grand to build one and it wont even have a title. how nice of an original can you buy for 40K?

Is the rear-seat depression (71-72) not on the hardtop "70"?

...or just seen only on the pics of the convertible body?

If it turns out to be both, that's an easy check for anyone suspicious of a car for sale.

Well I am glad to see a replacement shell. Some of you guys need to live in the rust belt for a few years. A friend that moved here from British Columbia two years ago went to the auto wrecker to find some trim for his 79 Malibu. The response he got was "we haven't had one of them for about ten years, they're all rusted away". I looked at a 90 Chev two wheel drive truck at the auto wrecker. It looked good and I asked what was wrong with it. All he said was look under the front of it. Well I did and the frame where the steering box mounts was rotted away. What chance do you think I would have finding a good restorable car? A buddy had one shipped from the west after buying it from pictures, and it was no prize either. I would rather have a new shell than weld for two years changing floors rockers 1/4 panels and wheel houses. I have also seen some "restorations" that I would be afraid to drive down the street.

Paul

Well I am glad to see a replacement shell. Some of you guys need to live in the rust belt for a few years.

I would rather have a new shell than weld...floors, rockers, 1/4 panels, and wheel houses.


Yeah Paul, and after those floors, rockers, quarter panels, and wheel housings are welded, there will still be rust in the crevices, nooks, and crannies that you can't get to...and it'll just keep on eating and rusting away.

These totally rust free shells are a great resource for you rust belt guys restoring badly rusted projects.

Regards,
-Greg

I am glad to see these body's out. I also see many of you are upset on what this new item will do to the resale value of our cars. Just remember if someone wants to fake a SS they don't have to start with this repo body. We can't control what someone will do with one of these so, is it right that we now have the option? The biggest issue I see everyone worked up about is consumer intent. We can't control that.

What would you guys say if all sheetmetal or frames were not allowed to be reused or removed from their original cars? And that repos were not allowed. Also remember that all new cars have vin stickers on all of their sheetmetal. My 99 S10 has the vin# on everything including the hood and bumpers.

With that logic neither of my two older cars would be here without donors or repo parts. I believe most of us would not have a trully original car. I find it fasinating to think of what sould be considered servicable on a body and what sould not be. There are a lot of parts that GM never offered in their parts books. Even now GM does not sell a truck cab as a part to a body shop but I understand that Ford does. I know Isuzu would sell a new cab with doors and glass for an NPR truck. I personally sold one once and it even came prepainted white.

What do you think is going to happen to avoid those problems? Some people will just find a rusted out car with proper title, VIN, cowl tag and documents and swap the stuff over :sad:. It will only be loose lips that will sink the ship.
sink what ship..
lets see..
if I have a 70 velle and replace the floors/trunk/door skins/quarters/fenders/hood

any different than buy'n one of these.. bypassing alot of bodywork man hours ,that isn't cheap.. wleding in the other rust buckets vin. and drop'n it on u'r frame..
it wasn't changing vin's from a stolen car..
all it's doing is letting cars get done faster.. as bodyshop jail. is real, and very costly..
by the time I'm done with my velle the only thing thats from the fisher body plant is the inner structure and roof..
whats the difference..

the worry about ls6 cars pop'n up.. is silly. as that car would need a real cars papertrail...

I guess the price of frames just went through the the roof!!!

So how many cars here have all the original sheetmetal on their cars? Does it really matter in the end? Whoever sees a car for sale and loves it is going to buy it no matter where the metal came from imo.

sink what ship..
lets see..

if I have a 70 velle and replace the floors/trunk/door skins/quarters/fenders/hood

any different than buy'n one of these.. bypassing alot of bodywork man hours ,that isn't cheap.. wleding in the other rust buckets vin. and drop'n it on u'r frame.....

...

Like I said in one of my other posts this debate can go on forever. The question is if you sell your car will you tell the buyer exactly what was swapped over or replaced? Will the new owners in the future keep telling the new buyers the same story? Each buyer can then decide for themselves what they are willing to accept or not.

Personally, if I was looking for a numbers car and found out that the VIN and cowl tags etc were swapped over to one of these "out of the box carshells" I would not touch it.

If I was not looking for a numbers car but I really liked the car and wanted it under the "same" circumstances as above, I would ask the current owner to remove those tags and have it titled as a kit car before I bought it even if had a "real" LS6 drive train in with all the paperwork to boot. To me this a complete rebody.

this all sounds like much ado about nothing

I think its great......easier for insurance jobs to be repaired......frame prices going up?....hey, get an Art Morrison.....

if you want it bad enough, you can pay for it.

All this nitpicking about % of this and that....sound like a bunch of old guys who sit in Panera's on Saturday morning B.S.'ing about nothing.

Get over it.

If a chevelle has went through a total restoration including a new frame, new fenders, doors, quarters, floor pans, new iterior.........is it o longer a chevelle?

Is the rear-seat depression (71-72) not on the hardtop "70"?

...or just seen only on the pics of the convertible body?

If it turns out to be both, that's an easy check for anyone suspicious of a car for sale.

I've only seen it in the ads for the convertible. I haven't seen pics of the interior of the coupes. Besides, it's not exactly unheard of to have the beack half of a car repleced due to collison or rust. My point is that the body is a repop of a 71-72, not a 70.

40 grand to build one and it wont even have a title. how nice of an original can you buy for 40K? That depends what drivetrain the "original" has. If it's a small block engine, I'm sure that 40K or less will cover the cost of the purchase. But if it's an "original" LS6 car, or even a 68 or 69, 375 HP 396 engine car, you won't touch it for $40K anyway.

I agree with just about every post on this last page. I think it's a great thing that they have the shells now. Sure the price is high, and I don't like that, but the price is high on just about all the parts for these cars. So how is that any different? My brother had one severe wrestling match having to bend,twist, and tweak the floor pans to fit in his 67. And I know that others also have had a tough time getting the parts to fit on their, uhmmm...."original" Chevelles. But if you're able to start fresh and buy the whole thing instead of cutting, welding twisting and bending, then to me that's a great thing. It isn't a negative at all. Why get so caught up with all the technicalities of VIN#'s if it's really no biggie?

Now if only someone would start repoping frames!:)

Now if only someone would start repoping frames!:)That would be nice. Some guys rave about the "G-Machine" and other aftermarket frames available for GM A-body cars, but they're mostly for Pro-Touring cars. The positive thing about them is that by design they're very strong and wil ressist flex and twisting, but the negative thing about them is that also by design, they have such a lowered stance (not via shorter suspension height use, but via the bends in the frame rails) that you cannot have the factory bends in the tailpipes which go OVER the axle tubes. The tailpipes would have to go UNDER the axle tubes, and that cuts down on ground clearence. You also cannot use 3.5" diameter exhaust pipes either, and I doubt that you would be able to weld in ladder bars. So for drag cars, or street/strip cars, I think you're better of with stock frames. That's why I agree with you that it would be great if they began making factory type frames for Chevelles. :yes:

If somebody owns a rotted out car with a clear title, who does it hurt to re-body the car?

I cannot figure out why I am so damn offended by this but I am......maybe I just hate fakes and this one, on the fake scale, exceeds a clone. Well, atleast the REAL clone guys now will have someone to pick on.....and us non clone guys...man, we're home free to pee on everyone.

Maybe I am excited about it. Very confused......


Yeah you "non clone guys" should laminate your build sheets and display them on the dash board...:rolleyes: cause a rust bucket with a build sheet is far better than a solid car that was a malibu when built. Not calling your car a rust bucket as it obviously is a very nice car based on the pics.

Yeah you "non clone guys" should laminate your build sheets and display them on the dash board...:rolleyes: cause a rust bucket with a build sheet is far better than a solid car that was a malibu when built. A very good point^ :yes: ...some "bone stock" or "all factory" car guys just get too carried away with this "originality" crap. Some of it doesn't even have anything to do with form nor functionality nor performance or reliability at all. It's like some weird twisted religion to some guys. As if though these new Chevelle shells are some type of sacrilege or evil taboo against their religion.

Sometimes I wonder if some of these guys use their cars for anything more than driving or trailering them to one car show after another or to one auction after another merely to win trophies or to attempt to make $$ on them. I mean do they even enjoy driving them? Don't get me wrong, winning a trophy in a car show here and there is cool, and I'm not knocking everyone who does that, or who take their cars to cruise nights. But some of these "purists" are waaay too carried away with this stuff.

I didn't mean to be putting down someone for wishing to have a car that is a real SS. It's just that they are the same car with different options bolted onto them. If you can't tell if it's"real" without a build sheet then what's the difference? I'm not talking about a Malibu with sweep dash that has a cowl hood and emblems bolted to it...I am talking about a car that has all the correct stuff not just some emblems.

Having "correct" items on the car the way it came from the factory is all good if that's what you're into, but how far are you gonna take that? Some seem to take it to the max with having the "correct" stripe on a radiator hose, or the "correct" type of bolt heads on another part either underneath the car or under the hood. Yeah, I guess judges of certain car shows might look for that type of stuff, but in the end, it's just a car man. And do you really enjoy driving it more because every single nut and bolt on the thing is "correct"? Does the car perform or handle any better because it has the "correct" brand of battery, or the "correct" brand of alternator belt sitting under the hood? Do those things improve your driving experience when you're behind the wheel?

Then you have window stickers. Don't some places sell repos of these too? So what's the big whoop about having a window sticker if you can simply buy them? There was a Vette guy around here who actually used to put engines in his so called "L-88" Vettes which he had some machine for stamping numbers on the engines that he installed in those cars he sold. How many other guys and businesses out there might be doing things like that? Some of these things don't serve any real function anyway. But these new body shells for Cevelles DO serve a function, and a real good one IMO.

What's better? Buying new floor pans that you have to fight with, twist, bend, and modify to get them to fit on the "original", or the "correct" body? Or being able to buy the entire thing already together, and without having to alter the individual pieces just to get them to fit together?

I don't knock people for wanting some original features on old muscle cars. I like having some of them too, to a lesser degree. But if they're gonna moan about companies making the whole entire shells because they're getting carried away with this "originality" stuff, or look down their noses at other's Chevelles who have them, then to me that's just majoring in the minors. It's a car man. Not a holy shrine that we bow down to. Are you gonna drive it and enjoy the driving pleasure, or are you gonna just trailer it around and rope it off somewhere? If it's the latter, then you might as well remove all the oil, gasoline, and coolant, and gut the engine internals too while you're at it, cuz you won't need any of those things for your museum piece that you have roped off just to be on display for people to stare at, and go..."whoooo...whaaa".

If anyone would like a *real* one - I have a '70 shell that would even come with a frame and a motor and a trans, and an interior, and a....

$5,000 less than just this repop shell!


(btw, this is not a for sale ad!)

Yeah you "non clone guys" should laminate your build sheets and display them on the dash board...:rolleyes: cause a rust bucket with a build sheet is far better than a solid car that was a malibu when built. Not calling your car a rust bucket as it obviously is a very nice car based on the pics.

I said I was torn on this.

And I am not a numbers guy but your post is in line with my point - rust bucket with a build sheet is still a real car. solid malibu is still a real car. This one being discussed, to me, is just not the real deal. If GM didnt put out that skeleton, if that skeleton isnt in line with the date of the car its supposed to represent then its beneath a clone on the totum pole of Chevelles. Its an optical illusion.

Anyhow, either way, still torn. I dislike it but like has been pointed out (and as I have said myself) I do not know why for sure. Maybe its just my severe dislike of in your face lying fakery. Same reason I hate politicians.

OK, im done. I promise, it still just makes no sense to me at all....

have a good one.

I just hope they can apply this theory to the human body.... That way when I start falling apart I can have my brain transferred over to a new body :yes:

I just hope they can apply this theory to the human body.... That way when I start falling apart I can have my brain transferred over to a new body :yes:

Maybe even with more "enhanced " features than the old one!:thumbsup:

I just hope they can apply this theory to the human body.... That way when I start falling apart I can have my brain transferred over to a new body :yes:

Ill take a new brain and keep the rest LOL

If a Chevelle has went through a total restoration including a new frame, new fenders, doors, quarters, floor pans, new interior...is it no longer a Chevelle?

John, you'll find that the guys who are against these shells won't answer that question, or should I say, they can't answer that question.

They can offer no explanation why they think a Chevelle whose body has been piecemealed together with Chinese sheetmetal is still a real Chevelle, but if the same Chinese sheetmetal is added all at once then it's not a real Chevelle.




Having "correct" items on the car the way it came from the factory..."correct" type of bolt heads...either underneath the car or under the hood..."correct" stripe on a radiator hose..."correct" brand of battery..."correct" brand of alternator...

...Which can actually be looked at as a form of cloning.




If GM didnt put out that skeleton...Its an optical illusion.

If an SS 396 has a 454 in it from out of a truck, is that car an "optical illusion" also?
It's the same difference. GM didn't put 454's from Suburbans in SS 396's.

It's all subjective.

Regards,
-Greg

plain and simple.i just like the fact we have choice of parts for our cars either nos or repo.the fact we have that choice is why we live here in the good old land of USA........the people that love these cars are the same people that make these parts available to us.so be gratefull we are not stuck some rustly old part or worst paying $1500 for some rare nos part. because thats the only thing thats left out there.we have a choice people and thats a good thing for all of us...............:yes:

If an SS 396 has a 454 in it from out of a truck, is that car an "optical illusion" also?
It's the same difference. GM didn't put 454's from Suburbans in SS 396's.

It's all subjective.

Regards,
-Greg

No, its a clone, tribute car or performance vehicle but still a Chevelle.

Otherwise - its a kit car, wasnt originaly sold, built, tagged, documented or shipped by GM.

We'll never agree because as you stated - its all subjective. But to expand - in order for a historical building to retain historical status there has to be at the very least a minimal portion of the foundation. It has to exist to retain the status, title, historical everything. I guess I am transferring that same thing to cars. If you dont have any ioda of the original equipment, metal, VIN tag - nothing then you, in effect, do not posses what you can call a "Chevelle by Chevrolet" (its right there on my trunk)

So can you then have that badge? Its not a "Chevelle by Chevrolet" Its a "Chevelle by Dynacorn" or whoever the hell is putting this out.



"John, you'll find that the guys who are against these shells won't answer that question, or should I say, they can't answer that question."

I guess I am doing a really poor job of conveying my point here because I think I have answered it a few times now and again above. I am still confused, honestly, on my personal dislike for this because I dont know if it should matter or not.

But I do not like fraud and fake and no matter what this is fake:

fake
Also found in: Medical, Legal, Acronyms, Idioms, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia, Hutchinson 0.02 sec.
fake 1 (fk)
adj.
Having a false or misleading appearance; fraudulent.
n.
1. One that is not authentic or genuine; a sham.
2. Sports A brief feint or aborted change of direction intended to mislead one's opponent or the opposing team.
v. faked, fak·ing, fakes
v.tr.
1. To contrive and present as genuine; counterfeit.
2. To simulate; feign.
3. Music To improvise (a passage).
4. Sports To deceive (an opponent) with a fake. Often used with out.
v.intr.
1. To engage in feigning, simulation, or other deceptive activity.
2. Sports To perform a fake.
[Origin unknown.]
faker n.
faker·y (fk-r) n.

and has the potential for fraud:

fraud (frôd)
n.
1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a trick.
3.
a. One that defrauds; a cheat.
b. One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.

Anything that truly meets both of those definitions, and this does, to a T, goes on my bad idea list.

Im talking the body stuff here, not cloned chevelles with 632's and such or even dealer / RPO specials because those had the foundation and still do.

Guess I am done.

Have a good one, Greg. On to other threads. :thumbsup::beers:

Like the old adage of removing the radiator cap, pulling the car away, driving a new car under it and reinstalling the radiator cap.

I think these shells are great. I am sick to death of hearing people complain about parts made in China or Taiwan. I had an extensive conversation with a director that's a friend of mine at a restoration parts manufacturer here in the US. ( I wont give any names) His complaint was of classic car restorer's constantly being up in arms when a certain part they market is not U.S. made. He went on to explain that some of the parts in question were manufactured and imported when the car was new! This makes the original NOS pieces of that part 'Chinese junk'. The line between foreign junk and U.S. made has been forever smudged and everybody just needs to get used to it. The people that complain extensively about this, and then turn around and demand an outrageous sum for a rusted hunk of junk are the ones who caused it all in the first place. (Yes that means alot of you!!) I just saw a '70 malibu convertible for sale on this website for $12.5 k. It's not even an chevelle OR and SS for that matter. And the fact that there aren't many '70 convertibles left doesn't change the fact that a rusted, trashed hunk of metal is still just a rusted, trashed hunk of metal. Even if it was made in 1970. If I ever feel the need to build myself a '70 convert. I will use one of these so that I may enjoy driving the car rather than chasing rust pinholes for the rest of my life, or worrying about the #'s stamped on the bottom of the car that I can't even see when I'm blasting down the highway at 100+. Sounds like the classic car industry has turned into a place for fussy old women that need to quit worrying about some guy out there that they will never meet or know that MIGHT be passing off a car as a little more original than it actually is when they should be enjoying what's sitting in their own garage.

WTF is with the huge font and bold lettering? :confused:

I do apologize if the thickness of my typed letters has upset anyone's delicate disposition.

You got a point Matt. I just installed some 'Chinese' reproduction parts on my friends '67 Nova SS today. As I've found with all these parts, they were slightly 'off' and needed a little massaging here, elongating holes there. But you know what? They were inexpensive and AVAILABLE. The job came out fine, the quality is on par with the originals I replaced them with. If it weren't for these reproductions, they wouldn't have been replaced and would've remained the crappy, worn out items that were there. So, complain all you want about Asian repros. At least SOMEONE is making the stuff!

It's a matter of simple etiquette. Unfortuneately, people like yourself don't seem to understand these days.

Let what you have to say speak for itself without trying to dominate the discussion with bold lettering or large font.

piss and moan all you want! The bodies are here yes someone will pass them off as all orignal LS6 cars and yes they wernt made by gm "back in the day". if your dumb enough not to look at the rivets for the star head you get what you deserve. and yes putting your vin on these bodies is illeagal in all fifty states, just like puttin a ss vin on a non ss car original or not, is illeagal. yes any one who builds these bodies will have to apply for a kit car title to be leagal. so with that said these bodies while not real but are a great deal. what makes a car real, imo its the main structer of the car say cowl door pillar area Sheetmetal is just that sheetmetal even if the U.S made the part it would be from chinese metal anyway. Does the U.S acually make repo parts probly not i have yet to see any U.S made sheetmetal. I do have a 66 chevelle and yes it does need lots of sheetmetal but that dont make it any less of a chevelle does it. All in all if they made these in a 66 id buy one.

Andy, I again apologize for upsetting you so with my choice in font size. Let it be known that I in no way was attempting to dominate the discussion with the size of my letters. In the future I will be more careful in my selection of letter dimensions. Just to clarify, was it only the letter size, or also the letter type that offended you? I chose Arial Black because it's bolder and easier to read, but perhaps you would prefer something with a milder tone such as Times New Roman. If you wouldn't mind taking the time to notify me of your favorite choice I would be happy to select that font & size for my next post so as to not upset anymore of your evening. Would that meet your requirements for post etiquette?

I've seen alot of guys get pissed off over alot of stuff, but never over font size.



On a different note (perhaps one related to the actual topic), I saw these Dynacorn bodies on Ground Up's website for sale. They were almost as expensive as Dynacorn's quoted MSRP, but they did not include the roof, doors, quarters, or deck lid. Has anyone seen these? Their website showed them as Dynacorn bodies.

Shure are cocky for a new guy.

LK

I'm a retired auto body specialist with over thirty years experience at heavy collision repair AND classic car restoration. ( I don't give a hang who believes that or not.)

I've restored in my career a 59 impala, 50 Chevy Deluxe (custom job), 54 Packard, 65 Ford Galaxie (Mild Custom), 49 Ford Pickup, 65 Chevy Pick Up, and am currently involved in helping my son restore a 67 Chevelle that's been in the family for decades. (I'm an old guy now, and for health reasons can only work on this car for short periods of time.)

To ALL you Chevelle and classic car enthusiasts with COMMON SENSE, don't pay ANY attention to these "elitists" who frown on your build if you've bought and used new replacement panels or own a clone.

The fact is most of these cars are getting too damned RARE and hard to find, much less salvageable enough to keep it "all original"....

If you're a collector that get's his cookies off by owning an all original car, that's all well and good, more power to you, but don't be knocking or sticking your nose up in the air at another builder who has a clone or had to use extensive reproduction parts to save his "love" and put it back in pristine condition.

I'm not talking about the con men who try to foist a "fake" off as an original car to make a buck, that's a different subject.

I'm talking about the Prima donna's with the superiority complex who think they're better than the guy who has worked his ass off (Just as hard as they did with theirs) to make his ride top notch and solid, and something to be proud of. SOMETHING THAT TURNS HEADS WHEN IT'S DRIVEN.

I'm an old guy, that's for sure, but I'm not with the "elitists", and all you other enthusiasts and builders should turn a deaf ear to these guys.

I'm an old guy, that's for sure, but I'm not with the "elitists", and all you other enthusiasts and builders should turn a deaf ear to these guys.

How is it elitist to object to something like this? Please explain how, exactly, that is an elitist attitude.



Is it that I dont want you to have a car thats no longer made and because you are sad about that it makes me an elitist? I am somehow preventing you from owning a chevelle by holding an opinion that these suck and are stepping and rewriting history? What is it, exactly?

Seems to me that enthusiasts and builders would rather bring a REAL one back to life than to take a huge shortcut to obtain and ultimately inferior finished product. Fact is it will ALWAYS be inferior to an original car because, well, its NOT an original CAR (not malibu, chevelle, SS, Heavy, COPO but - CAR). I dont see that as elitist but rather simple fact.

You have an original and you have one of these. Build them the same. Who is the leader, strictly by historical definition and in the end value. There is nothing anyone can say, due, paint, install, add parts.....you could dip the car in a bucket of 1970 hippy love and it would still be a fake. Thats not an elitist opinion - its a fact.

As long as its out in the open as a 2011 carbon copy of a real chevelle having nothing to do with the actual history or year or era or anything else then great - build it and be fast, have fun. But you cannot take away the end result that it is and will always be a 2011 copy no matter what you did or do. It has no soul and no history. For me - JUST me - that is VERY important with these cars. Call that elitist if you want but its the truth. And I think maybe that is striking a nerve with the folks that want this carbon copy and they are getting defensive seeing the very same discussions they would see in person around there cars before they even have looked at it hard enough.

Hence the bold print and all that jazz in the other post stating the same opinion you hold....to be followed by the same party posting "I was on ground ups site looking for the price, etc"

Fact is it will ALWAYS be inferior to an original car because, well, its NOT an original CAR

Why will it be INFERIOR? New steel is likely higher quality than the stuff made in 1970 anyway, due to improvements in the metal processing industry.

So a guy has a rust bucket and buys a shell. He swaps in his dash, seats, frame, glass, etc. How is the car with an original shell, but repo seats, dash, glass, etc any different? Just swapping DIFFERENT parts for new China stuff, right?

People trying to fake docs should be prosecuted, but I see no problem with body shells for guys that don't want to replace every floor panel, 1/4, etc on their rotted originals. I'm damn glad we have that option!

I chose Arial Black because it's bolder and easier to read

Actually it's harder to read, the default font is the "easier to read" font.
BUT, the choices are there for a reason, I'm just not sure what the reason is.
:D

All kit cars should be titled as such and titled with the year of manufacturer. - 2010 replica.:yes:

Why will it be INFERIOR? New steel is likely higher quality than the stuff made in 1970 anyway, due to improvements in the metal processing industry.

So a guy has a rust bucket and buys a shell. He swaps in his dash, seats, frame, glass, etc. How is the car with an original shell, but repo seats, dash, glass, etc any different? Just swapping DIFFERENT parts for new China stuff, right?

People trying to fake docs should be prosecuted, but I see no problem with body shells for guys that don't want to replace every floor panel, 1/4, etc on their rotted originals. I'm damn glad we have that option!

Because it was not made in 1970 by GM, because it doesnt have the bloodline or roots and yes, I do belileve that this comes down to the shell or the shell skeleton but I am not going to repost what I have already posted at least 4 times now.

Put it this way - a real shelby cobra next to a kit car. Are you HONESTLY going to tell me that one is not superior to the other by heritage, history, bloodline and being a real car made in the real time it was intended?

How is this hard to grasp?

You have a foundation. You have a house built on that foundation. You want to "restore" the house to its former glory. You then knock down the house. You then rip out the foundation. You then level the area. You then build a completely new foundation and a completely NEW house using NOTHING from the original house. Is this house original and restored or is it a completely new house with no history, bloodline, roots, documentation?

I should not have returned to this thread. lmao :D

Im wrong. Im an elitist. And now I know......

Heading out to China town now to grab a couple of antique carved figurines that were carved by Mao himself.....in 2009....and then I have an appointment to look at and possibly buy a genuine WWII german ruger that was pulled off a dead German soldier on the battlefield by an English private....in 1995.

Man this thread is a headache.

lmao

Have a good one fellas.

Put it this way - a real shelby cobra next to a kit car. Are you HONESTLY going to tell me that one is not superior to the other by heritage, history, bloodline and being a real car made in the real time it was intended?


I think what others are saying is that they would be OK having the kit car. As long as it's not being passed off as an original Cobra, it's OK...and I would be OK driving a replica AC Cobra.

This topic can go back and forth 100,000,001 times and people will still keep their opinions and there will be a stand off. Agree to disagree on this one fellas. I see both sides and I get it. :beers:

My thoughts are that taking a VIN tag (alone) and moving it to another vehicle is clearly illegal. But what if you cut a car in half, replaced the rear 50% and kept it registered as the front half with the VIN still in place? Ok, now start fiddling with the idea of changing the percentages. Would replacing 99% of the sheetmetal and keeping the VIN portion of the body registered just as before by a violation? The VIN tag would have kept its rivets in place all along. No violation of that rule. Home built aircraft have the 51% rule to get home built licensing. Fifty-one percent of the work has to be done by the builder. What is the rule for cars to keep the original registration? How much of a car can be replaced before the original registration is invalid?

I think it would come down to intent... If you replaced Most of the body, then WHY would you take the time to cut out and weld in the area of the VIN, UNLESS you want to FOOL ( "defraud") everyone into thinking its the original body (the government, future buyers, etc...)... After all what other reason would there be to replace the perfectly good/new metal on the "new" body???

Afterall, WHY does anyone think the Feds would make it illegal to tamper with the VIN in the first place? Its to avoid swapping to another body, for whatever reason... Tampering with the rivets is just a sign that the VIN tag has been tampered with...

Different states are different (and even different inspectors might see it differently)...

I think its amazing that these bodies ( Camaros, etc) have been out for years, but yet people still aren't sure of the ramifications or the proper way to do this... I am also surprised that at $10K+ each, that Dynacorn/etc hasn't figured an acceptible, "legal" way (or do they just say its a "kit car"?)...


I think what others are saying is that they would be OK having the kit car. As long as it's not being passed off as an original Cobra, it's OK...and I would be OK driving a replica AC Cobra.


Kit car, looking like an original , is fine to me... Swapping VINs IMO, is no different that restamping a date-coded block or forging a buildsheet...

I'm a retired auto body specialist with over thirty years experience at heavy collision repair AND classic car restoration. ( I don't give a hang who believes that or not.)

I've restored in my career a 59 impala, 50 Chevy Deluxe (custom job), 54 Packard, 65 Ford Galaxie (Mild Custom), 49 Ford Pickup, 65 Chevy Pick Up, and am currently involved in helping my son restore a 67 Chevelle that's been in the family for decades. (I'm an old guy now, and for health reasons can only work on this car for short periods of time.)

To ALL you Chevelle and classic car enthusiasts with COMMON SENSE, don't pay ANY attention to these "elitists" who frown on your build if you've bought and used new replacement panels or own a clone.

The fact is most of these cars are getting too damned RARE and hard to find, much less salvageable enough to keep it "all original"....


I'm talking about the Prima donna's with the superiority complex who think they're better than the guy who has worked his ass off (Just as hard as they did with theirs) to make his ride top notch and solid, and something to be proud of. SOMETHING THAT TURNS HEADS WHEN IT'S DRIVEN.



Well said Jerry!

I think these shells would not be near as necessary if all the usable original parts weren't outrageously expensive. Seems every other guy has turned his car into a $100k SS clone. Which is perfectly fine if that's what he is wanting to drive. But most of them are wanting big bucks back for all the time and money they put into a Malibu w/ a 307. Sure I've put alot of time and money into my car, but it's for my pleasure. I'm not going to turn around and ask 50 grand for what started life as a Malibu 307. It seems that daily drivers are just about non-existent anymore. It's either a show car or mess. It can be very frustrating when car shopping.

I think it would come down to intent... If you replaced Most of the body, then WHY would you take the time to cut out and weld in the area of the VIN, UNLESS you want to FOOL ( "defraud") everyone into thinking its the original body (the government, future buyers, etc...)... After all what other reason would there be to replace the perfectly good/new metal on the "new" body???

Afterall, WHY does anyone think the Feds would make it illegal to tamper with the VIN in the first place? Its to avoid swapping to another body, for whatever reason... Tampering with the rivets is just a sign that the VIN tag has been tampered with...

Different states are different (and even different inspectors might see it differently)...

I think its amazing that these bodies ( Camaros, etc) have been out for years, but yet people still aren't sure of the ramifications or the proper way to do this... I am also surprised that at $10K+ each, that Dynacorn/etc hasn't figured an acceptible, "legal" way (or do they just say its a "kit car"?)...




Kit car, looking like an original , is fine to me... Swapping VINs IMO, is no different that restamping a date-coded block or forging a buildsheet...


maybe because they don't plan on defrauding anyone, but know the epa/cafe and the government local and fed can't set rules and can't seem to leave them alone..
let me put this in your pipe to toke on..
as of right now.. you can title a kit car and reg. it in most states and it only has to pass emmission laws for the year the car it's based on was built..
now. in a year they change this.. like they did for a few years in 98-99.
to it must pass emmissions for the year it was titled/built???
if we take a rebody.. and title and reg. it your way.. if the rules change.. and they have and will . to this way of year of build.. and has to comply with emmissions of that year..
now you have a car you can't drive... as the 2008 car would need an ls or better engine..
if we take my car.. that needs it all.. and sidestep the labor and time of replacing the foor/trunk/quarters/tail panel/door skins/etc.. and cut in the older cars vin.. that YOU have the title for..
a bad thing.. there is no chance of the emmission build year reg's changing and stopping you from driving it..
it's no different than if I replace every skin with goodmark metal, that by the way.. 85% of the chevelle you see have on the car..
any different..
it wasn't g.m. metal and fisher body didn't weld them part on..
I can't see that have'n the factory 40 year old roof make it a fraud or not..
some must live in lala land..
yes some might get past off as a ls5 or 6.. but if it replaced a totalled ls6 shell.. whats the difference.. of the new shell or the owner taking a base malbu sheel and cuting in his ls6 cowl and bolting it on the ls6 frame that had the malbu front frame horns welded in..
is that still an ls6??
he had it it was totalled(like most of these cars where back in the day)
and rebuilt..
some call the 14.5k for the body . to costly and out of line..
those are the same guys that will pay a bodyshop 80.oo+ an hour to take off and replace body parts.. and end up with a bill as big or bigger..
price out a body shop to install a tail panel 2 1/4's and door skins/ floors and trunk . inner/outer wheel houses.. and other little metal work around the windows..
parts and labor and you are over 14k with non g.m. parts..
only ones worry'n is the guys that paid crazy cash for a rebuilt car..
and didn't want another guy to be able to take his rust bucket ls5 and rebuild it.. for 1/8th of the cost .of their all n.o.s part rebuild.. cause they know.. both in the end are worth the same coin..

Because it was not made in 1970 by GM, because it doesnt have the bloodline or roots and yes, I do belileve that this comes down to the shell or the shell skeleton but I am not going to repost what I have already posted at least 4 times now.



So what if the guy bolts all the original interior, frame, engine onto the new shell? A high % of the car would be "made in 1970 by GM", but it is still not a Chevelle, because some of the sheetmetal is reproduction? I guess that cars w/ China 1/4 panels fall under the same category?

What part really consitutes the "soul" of the car? Is it the firewall? Roof? Hidden VIN?

Alot of the heated discussion over 'kit' bodies for older and rarer cars (like the cobra and 30's Fords) has died down because everybody eventually had to make their peace with the fact that 'original' parts were unobtainable. It seems the muscle car era vehicles are starting to make this transition as well. In 20 or 30 yrs 'kit' chevelles might be just as common as 'real' chevelles.

This is all well and good, but for the REAL issue....oval or rectangle port heads???

:D

This is all well and good, but for the REAL issue....oval or rectangle port heads???

:D
rectangle.. less low end.. = lest broken parts and more traction on the street:p
na,,, they just work with a blower better:hurray:

I still dont see a problem with this as long as it is used properly...and by properly, I mean, not using them to illegally tag VINs of real SSs or COPOS of any kind.

I like the Chevelles not so much for the history or the idea it was built 30-40 years ago. I could care less if a big movie star owned it, or it came from the South with a history of whiskey runners. I dont even care if Elvis farted in the front seat and autographed it.

I love antiquity as much as the next guy and have soft spots for stuff and memorbilia (sp?) from different eras. But in cars, I like the looks and performance of them and the fact is Chevelles, like any other 64-72 muscle car, will never be designed or built like them again. Period. But that doesn't mean I am going to reject a 2011 body shell because it isnt 40 years old.

If you need to have the "history" and "original" sheetmetal on the car to make you feel its original or whatever. Fine. I have no problem with that or condone it anyway at all. But I can also understand the other side in which the basic reason some of us love Chevelles in the first place.

Sorry but I have had nothing but trouble with the quality of Dynacrap (hoods,fenders, etc.).I wounder if the glass will leak or even trying to align body pannels. Thin metal flex and crease. Why cant a company in the US make this with proud American workers? $14,000 they are nuts. They paid some guy $12 to build the whole thing in Asia ( Im getting excited). If you have to have it you will probably need soft suspention and go 3mph over box dotts to avoid flex or oil canning.

Actually, Dropzilla, the metal is allegedly thicker than the original bodies. Or so I hear...

Sorry but I have had nothing but trouble with the quality of Dynacrap (hoods,fenders, etc.).I wounder if the glass will leak or even trying to align body pannels. Thin metal flex and crease. Why cant a company in the US make this with proud American workers? $14,000 they are nuts. They paid some guy $12 to build the whole thing in Asia ( Im getting excited). If you have to have it you will probably need soft suspention and go 3mph over box dotts to avoid flex or oil canning.

Sadly, Zilla, I wonder how much of that is exporting and overhead shipping costs just to get it to the States...

Edit: on a side note, I had to look again. I didnt look the first time and realize these are GM Restoration Parts licensed. That makes it an even less deal to me about using them.:D

Actually, Dropzilla, the metal is allegedly thicker than the original bodies. Or so I hear...
Where did you hear that? I'd like to confirm the sources.

Here's my source:

First paragraph from the second page of the Hot Rod Magazine Camaro body article:
http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/hdrp_0512_69_crate_camaro_bodies/camaro_dynacorn.html
Readers still hit us with a lot of questions about the bodies, and toanswer the big one, yes--the sheetmetal is all stamped in Taiwan. ACamaro convertible body requires 850 separate sheetmetal stampings thatare welded into 35 separate subassemblies. These are shipped to LongBeach, California, and then sent by rail to Belews Creek, NorthCarolina, where they are robotically welded in precision jigs using GM'sSaab production standards. The sheetmetal itself is slightly thinnerthan the original, but of a higher grade that is less brittle.
Made in Taiwan from thin steel. EASY TO SPOT THE FAKE BODIES unless things have changed from whenever that article was written. Article says June 09, but I think that's when it was put on the Web; it was probably written in '04???) Wouldn't surprise me to find the newest stampings are just plain Communist Chinese. (Taiwanese would be a great leap forward.) Since the new bodies are readily verified as fake, don't expect prices for fake cars to equal an equivalent "real" one. You pay more for a Cubic Zirconia than a similar diamond?

And as for the sheetmetal being "less brittle"...have you people had a lot of problem with shattered GM sheetmetal? I guess they'll say anything to throw a positive spin on a lower-quality product to make it saleable. If the opposite of brittle is malleable/soft/formable; all they're saying is that they use easily-formed metal (which reduces cost.) Duh. The whole point of offshoring the body stampings is to cut costs; not to improve quality.

GM's Saab production standards? As independently verified by WHO? WHEN? ISO requires periodic inspections to maintain ISO 9000 certification (and even that is not enough, businesses make a big point of adhering to the standards while the inspectors are in the building--and then go back to doing things the cheap way after the inspectors leave); who's verifying that the "Saab production standards" are being adhered to?

I could have purchased a "new repop" radiator support for my '68 Camino, and had it delivered to my door for LESS money than it took to buy a surface-rusted original. AND, it wouldn't have taken two years of searching for a decent original radiator support! It would have been SO EASY to just buy a repop--but who wants a poorly-stamped panel made from the wrong gauge of sheet steel?

$14,000.00 whos going first? LOL:noway:

$14,000.00 whos going first? LOL:noway:

Too rich for my blood, I will take another nice and complete Malibu for that money.:yes:

Where did you hear that? I'd like to confirm the sources.

And as for the sheetmetal being "less brittle"...have you people had a lot of problem with shattered GM sheetmetal? I guess they'll say anything to throw a positive spin on a lower-quality product to make it saleable. If the opposite of brittle is malleable/soft/formable; all they're saying is that they use easily-formed metal (which reduces cost.) Duh. The whole point of offshoring the body stampings is to cut costs; not to improve quality.

GM's Saab production standards? As independently verified by WHO? WHEN? ISO requires periodic inspections to maintain ISO 9000 certification (and even that is not enough, businesses make a big point of adhering to the standards while the inspectors are in the building--and then go back to doing things the cheap way after the inspectors leave); who's verifying that the "Saab production standards" are being adhered to?

?
you should read up on steel..
the steel thats in cars today is stronger than that of 12 years ago.. and alot thinner..
read up buddy

Does that make it a higher tinsle strength then 12 years ago. thinner better? It seems more of a pain then finding a doner. Do they say the body with fit perfect? Or is it a beat it close and paint to match deal? Beat the winshield in and caulk. Sorry, I have had poor craftmanship with Dynacorn products(wasted money!!).

My source? Muscle Car Review, Feb. '10 issue, page 39.

I mis-spoke, er mis-typed, when I should have said I heard it was stronger, not thicker. Or perhaps just left it at "better" which the Dynacorn ad specifically states.

"Better. Todays automotive grade steel alloys."

Wether they ARE in fact better or not remains to be seen. Again, its just what I HEARD. Well, read, technically.

So sorry to have offended with my mistake.

[QUOTE=72ragtop;2687817]I guess I don't get it. Long as someone isn't trying to pass one of these off as an original GM body, where's the fraud? QUOTE]

Thats the only problem. People will try to pass them off as original. As honest as most are, There are always people out there trying to make the Big Buck. And unfortunatley some will succeed.

[QUOTE=72ragtop;2687817]I guess I don't get it. Long as someone isn't trying to pass one of these off as an original GM body, where's the fraud? QUOTE]

Thats the only problem. People will try to pass them off as original. As honest as most are, There are always people out there trying to make the Big Buck. And unfortunatley some will succeed. But here's the thing..... if the new shells are that close to the real thing that we have to worry about them being passed off as "original", then they cannot be that bad now, can they? If these new shells are as bad, as flimsy, and as poorly made as some guys in this thread are saying that the MUST be, then most of us should be able to spot them a mile away, right? So either way, it's realy no big deal. If these shells are as good as the original, then who cares? Because in that case, there's no real difference. It's still a Chevelle, and it doesn't effect it's function nor performance level.

I just received my new issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines and now I see in an add that now they are making 1970 Mustang fastback bodies also. I imagine the 1970 Cuda body will be next.

Well in the Camaro world at Barrett-Jackson the rebody didn't seem to hurt the value of this Camaro.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=1277.1&aid=283&pop=1

The rebody is disclosed in the last line of the description.

Chop Cut Rebuild did a dynacorn camero build a few years ago it had fitment issues but the shop made it work,they are now building a 69 Yenko COPO GREEN which is now in the March 2010 issue of Chevy High Performance for more info Google chop cut rebuild/dynacorn my opinion is you couldn't build any dynacorn car from scratch including labor for less than 100K