Will a 427 w/ tri power fit under a stock 67 chevelle hood?

Will a 427 w/ tri power fit under a stock 67 chevelle hood?
yes:beers: but a wise man once said having one crankiness leaking Holley is bad enough why would you want three of them

Thanks

I remember someone on here having that setup under the hood of their '67. Apparently it came close to being available from Chevrolet that way. Just imagine!

another thing from a performance stand point that is the worse thing you can do. the tri-power came from the styling part of GM. the engineers hated the set up.

Sure did work good in '67 and still does today. Very easy maintenance. Everything GM made back then was outstanding. Even the quadrajet carb was way ahead of it's time. Although, it did need some tlc.

Jon

I remember someone on here having that setup under the hood of their '67. Apparently it came close to being available from Chevrolet that way. Just imagine!

Here's the one I was talking about:
http://www.chevelles.com/feature/skips427.html

Will a 427 w/ tri power fit under a stock 67 chevelle hood?

A 427 is no different height wise than a 396 or a 454. THe issue of clearance comes first at the front carb where the hood starts to drop down to meet the grille. Y will see any clearance issue at the front carb FIRST.

As to leaking carbs.... NONSENSE!!!!! If the carbs you use are rebuilt properly...I DO NOT MEAN A REBUILD WHERE SOMEONE THROWS IN A QUICKY REBUILD KIT.... there is nothing wrong with 3x2 setups. Things have just plain worn out after 40 years and you gotta do it RIGHT to not have leaks. You can do it right, my carbs looked like they were laying in the dirt at a bone yard for years before Jerry Luck in St. Loiuis did them over.

If you are going with rebuilt carbs you MUST MUST MUST have the shafts rebushed or get new bases and you MUST get the mating surfaces of the carb body machined to assure flatness. If these steps are taken the carbs don't leak. Period end of story. I have a rebuilt carb set and there are NO LEAKS anywhere.

Something to check. If you use a GM manifold remember that the 67 manifolds are taller by at LEAST 1.5 inches. In 68 and 69 the 3x2 manifolds were lowered WAY down to clear the hoods on the "Shark" generation Vettes. Not sure which manifold is on the 67 pictured in this thread. I think it is a 67.

The 67 Oval and Rectangle port manifolds were ONE YEAR ONLY parts and they are expensive due to the one year high rise design. Watch out for reproductions sold by some folks. The quality of the repop is always a concern and be sure you are comfortable dealing with the repop seller. Try REALLY hard to buy from other than hard core Corvette guys they want an arm and a leg: don't get me started on Vette parts guys.

If you go this route the original GM manifolds were not the greatest as far as casting quality and there WILL be cracks and stripped threads. Just expect it from the get go. Remember it has been 40 + years!!!!!!! There are shops like Jerry McNeish in Maryland that do repairs on these aluminum parts and the workmanship is AWESOME. He fixed some areas on my manifold. Do a search on Jerry McNeish or Jerry MacNeish (cannot recall the spelling www.z28camaro.com?) and look at the pictures. There is no trick photography there the work is as good as the pictues if not better.

Use new fuel lines from someone in the world of Corvette repop parts don't mess with old fuel lines. You are asking for leaks. New lines are the ONLY way to go. Don't even think about building your own it is a HUGE PIA. Buy the lines from a reputable Vette aftermarket supplier.

The performace may or may not be better than a 4 BBL. IMHO on the street there is nothin like a properly set up 3x2. With the correct springs in the outboard carbs the power is smooth and seamless. Transition from the center carb to all three carbs is almost turbine like. You MUST have the proper springs in those end carbs. Someone who knows 3x2 like Jerry Luck does can dial in the outboards like tuning a radio. Just tell him your combo and what you want. He will add jets and springs to make that happen. He also runs ALL his carbs on a mule engine before he ships them. Mine went on and worked EXACTLY the way I wanted them. Even the idle speed was more or less dead nuts.

Last but not least Jerry does complete plating work and replacement of all the screws and springs and whatever. I got a new Holley from a Summit for another project. The 3x2 carbs looked better after Jerry did em than the NEW Holley carb looked. After several years in the same garage the 3x2 carbs still look new and the NEW Holley has tarnished and shed most of its color. Nuff said about that.

another thing from a performance stand point that is the worse thing you can do. the tri-power came from the styling part of GM. the engineers hated the set up.

You have experience, or do you talk out your arse? Many of the racers of the day swapped out and gained only marginally.


Me? 12.24 @118.75 mph and gets 16.5 mpg on the open road. 439 ci 67 Chevelle

Wanna dance?

Hood cleanace is an issue. With the low rise intake I can use a 3" K&N ( p/n 1970) air filter ( the oem filter is a useless pos) and a 1/2" phenolic spacer under the carbs. I cannot comment about the high rise, but Ken Takacs out of NJ runs the high rise 67 intake with the oem air claener under the hood of his georgeous 67, so you can use the high rise mani, but with that awful 1.75" oem air filter.

BTW, my setup is mechanical ala Mopar and much less finicky than the oem vacuum setup. The carbs are modern Holley 2300s with machined tops ( half moon air fliter boss_ and fitted with side hung float bowls off the 1850 series. 73 ain jets with a 095 PV in the center carb and 77 outboard jets with no PV. 25 squirters outboard and a 33 in the center. MINT SETUP!!!!

I had the complete setup up here on TC but as 3X2 so terribly SUCK, I guess they didnt think it worth archieving. Whoops.

Ray, are the repop manis from Crane's any good?

Had a 67 rect port tall tri power on a 69 with the stock air cleaner and it fit fine..performance was decent, although never got to compare it to a single four..was cool though!! :D

Hi, I had one on my 66 chevelle, no problem.Ray

You have experience, or do you talk out your arse? Many of the racers of the day swapped out and gained only marginally.




I have talked with many of people in NCRS and a couple of people who worked at Tonawanda engine plaint about tri-power set ups.

Tri-power baby!

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271952&highlight=bellhousing+alignment

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254552

The last BBC with a tri-power that I saw in a 67 was at the Peach State Chevelles event this past year. I am not 1000% sure that he said that he needed to use the lower profile 68-69 manifold or it was just his choice.

Here's a photo of the car. Don't know if he's a member here.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x141/fppb1/chevlleshow042.jpg

I have talked with many of people in NCRS and a couple of people who worked at Tonawanda engine plaint about tri-power set ups.

NCRS now there are a bunch of people who know how to modify / upgrade and do the hard things like polish the 3 sided air cleaner! Yup!!!!

You have experience, or do you talk out your arse? Many of the racers of the day swapped out and gained only marginally.


Me? 12.24 @118.75 mph and gets 16.5 mpg on the open road. 439 ci 67 Chevelle

Wanna dance?

Hood cleanace is an issue. With the low rise intake I can use a 3" K&N ( p/n 1970) air filter ( the oem filter is a useless pos) and a 1/2" phenolic spacer under the carbs. I cannot comment about the high rise, but Ken Takacs out of NJ runs the high rise 67 intake with the oem air claener under the hood of his georgeous 67, so you can use the high rise mani, but with that awful 1.75" oem air filter.

BTW, my setup is mechanical ala Mopar and much less finicky than the oem vacuum setup. The carbs are modern Holley 2300s with machined tops ( half moon air fliter boss_ and fitted with side hung float bowls off the 1850 series. 73 ain jets with a 095 PV in the center carb and 77 outboard jets with no PV. 25 squirters outboard and a 33 in the center. MINT SETUP!!!!

I had the complete setup up here on TC but as 3X2 so terribly SUCK, I guess they didnt think it worth archieving. Whoops.

Ray, are the repop manis from Crane's any good?


Gene

Boy you came out swinging on that first sentence!!!!!!

Chicken Coupe and I saw the 67 pictured on this thread at a show here last spring. I cannot recall if he had the low or high rise manifold I am thinking he had the high rise. I am gonna zoom in on the picture after I save it and then report back later. I think you are right on the manifold and filter combo being critical. Your clearance issue is related to the 3 inch air filter.

Don't know about Cranes repops. Been avoiding that whole Corvette scene.... including but not limited to the vendors.

If Chicken Coupe is in a benevolent mood today, smiling on the masses as it were, I will ship him high res. copies of pictures of my carbs and he can post em. You won't see the puddles / stains from leaks cause there aren't any leaks ergo no stains!!!

Edit: I think the black 67 has a low riser manifold. Sure looks like he has room for a 3 inch filter the same way you have Gene. I am thinking high rise and low air filter, low rise and high manifold is a good rule of thumb for the 67 series and its 66 cousin.

I think the black 67 has a low riser manifold.

It does. I saw this car also last May.

It does. I saw this car also last May.

'Morning Bill !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another benefit of a tri-power...it sounds different. BBC screaming back out of 6 holes instead of 4 sounds nastier. :D

If Chicken Coupe is in a benevolent mood today


http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x141/fppb1/engine3.gif

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x141/fppb1/engine4.gif

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x141/fppb1/solenoid.jpg

It does. I saw this car also last May.


Now there's a neat addition for your sedan! :D

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x141/fppb1/engine3.gif

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x141/fppb1/engine4.gif

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x141/fppb1/solenoid.jpg

THANK YOU CHICKEN COUPE!!!!!! My carbs will now cruise through cyberspace like the Flying Dutchman of Intake Systems! Sorta like those CDs that NASA fired into Space with the music and the names of people!!!

For the "viewers / spectators" here: Notice the lack of stains and leaks!!!!! That manifold was redone by Jerry MacNeish. That is a NATURAL ALUMINUM FINISH not a painted manifold. Outta the box from MacNeish the manifold looks like a NEW casting. No kidding.

Also before Coupe chimes in: my wiring was not in a final stage when those pics were taken it is much more orderly now.

For the detail minded folks here notice the fast idle solenoid. Custom made bracket by "Oman Hisself"! Source...Home Depot angle iron. Raw material cost +/- $5.00!!!! Take that Corvette originality crazies!!!!

For Bill: "Coupe" is RIGHT you need a 3x2 under the hood of that 67 sleeper car of yours.

NCRS now there are a bunch of people who know how to modify / upgrade and do the hard things like polish the 3 sided air cleaner! Yup!!!!
you never meet anyone from NCRS have you. and I wish we had a group of people like them for our Chevelles they have done more for the hobby then you think

I bought brand new carbs for my factory 3x2 set up(67 oval port) and they still leak to this day. I wish I knew what was wrong with the carbs ?

you never meet anyone from NCRS have you. and I wish we had a group of people like them for our Chevelles they have done more for the hobby then you think

Oh contrare sir.

I met them all the time when I took my 66 Vette to cruises and shows. I met them when they told me what was wrong with my car, what was incorrect and what needed to be worked on. I met with them when they voluntarily pointed out that my 66 had 67 rocker moldings, that my 66 had Rally Wheels from a 67, that my MSd was not factory correct.

I met one dope who saw my A-body with the 3x2. He told me I should NOT have put the 67 3x2 on the A-body because "Those are rare pieces and someone needs that 3x2 system for a concourse correct resto of a 67 435HP car". I was "wasting" it on my A-body and "holding up someones resto". Oh yes I met those guys and they make me SOOOOOO TIRED!!

They have done SOOOOO much for the hobby! Yup they sure have. They have propagated their numbers nonsense, cookie cutter factory perfect right down to the overspray on the engine, poor quality paint on the lower doors resto ideals all over like cow pie in a field. Their numbers this, matching that, date coded something else nonsense has begun seeping into other areas of the hobby.

Areas of the hobby that used to be populated by people who were just interested in the cars for the sake of the cars are now filthy with "investors". They have helped create a "What is it worth" mentality that overshadows the fun that people used to have with their car (Vettes and any other classic car brands included) . There are now more numbers correct 67 BB cars on the road after 40 years than GM ever made new.

Clones are everywhere, restamped blocks pass as, and are sanctioned as, original raising prices ever higher on cars that could in reality be basket case composite cars. Left for dead, picked clean or tragically crashed hulks of all muscle car ancestry are now multi thousand dollar "project cars". If the VIN tag is anywhere in sight the hulk is a pricelss antique. Junk yards are scoured by "collectors" trying to buy VIN tags to install on other cars using reproduction visually correct rivets. All these contributions started in 1974 when the NCRS surfaced from under the pond water.

The list of contributions rolls on and on. Oh yeah they have done so much for the hobby.

don't hold back! tell us how you really feel about the Corvette snobs! Let it out man, let it all out! ;)

I bought brand new carbs for my factory 3x2 set up(67 oval port) and they still leak to this day. I wish I knew what was wrong with the carbs ?

All it takes is a little (and I mean a LITTLE) overtightening of the screws holding the bowls onto the body or holding the base onto the main body. Not saying that is your issue but I do know that socking down the screws is a SURE way to warp parts that have to be FLAT to seal correctly. My carbs were milled flat and they do not leak. My carbs are vintage 1967 thru 1969.

Jerry Luck in St. Loiuis, Any contact info? I have a 67 435 intake that i would like to get carbs for. Thanks, Phil.

Jerry Luck in St. Loiuis, Any contact info? I have a 67 435 intake that i would like to get carbs for. Thanks, Phil.

You gotta look around for his contact info. He may not be doing work any more. He had some serious health issues a few years back. I can't say what he is doing now. Try the Corvette boards people know him and about him on those boards. Ask a question there.

Also I am not sure he is (was?) a parts vendor per se. He is into resto work on carbs sent to him. He had a LARGE supply of parts he uses in his resto work but I would not say that he is a dealer in whole carbs or entire systems. I don't think that is the case.

don't hold back! tell us how you really feel about the Corvette snobs! Let it out man, let it all out! ;)

I guess this would not be such an issue for me except that I always wanted one of those mid year cars. I finally got one and IMMEDIATELY started hearing BS about what I need to correct. It just plain ruined the experience for me.

Right now the car sits in my garage collecting dust. I can't seem muster up the patience to deal with the A-hole types who would crawl out from under the wood work to buy the car.

another thing from a performance stand point that is the worse thing you can do. the tri-power came from the styling part of GM. the engineers hated the set up.

I think Gene's 118.75 MPH trap speed w/tri power trumps that statement.
And who cares what the engineers think?


yes:beers: but a wise man once said having one crankiness leaking Holley is bad enough why would you want three of them

I must meet this mysterious wise man.... ;)

I have talked with many of people in NCRS and a couple of people who worked at Tonawanda engine plaint about tri-power set ups.

And how many of these NCRS and engine plant people actually dyno tuned and drag raced tri-power set ups and would be willing to share their negative experiences?

FWIW when I was racing a mid 11 sec 427 '69 Vette NHRA B/SA in the late 70's, I switched from the factory 390 hp Q Jet (set up by Beachy Machine) to the factory 400 hp 3x2 setup. I bought 3 new Holley carbs and set them up myself per advice from Pete Fedun. No vac springs in the sec carbs, richer center carb jets, and leaner sec metering plates. After adding the 85 lb necessary to stay in B/SA class, the car immediately went between .05 and .10 quicker. I'm guessing by the times, probably added around 15 hp. So there IS power there, but needs set up properly, mainly jetting, for street use.

NCRS now there are a bunch of people who know how to modify / upgrade and do the hard things like polish the 3 sided air cleaner! Yup!!!!

Why do you denigrate people you don't know.

Several members here are also NCRS members. Many NCRS members own more than one car like many people here do. They may have "NCRS" cars and also have highly modified cars of various types.

You choose to have a modified Chevelle, others choose to have an original Chevelle, do you attack them too?

Hang in there. :D

He's just a tad tired of being attacked by the "ya got the wrong year air in them there tires" sorta folks. Fortunately there's an awful large group of "good guys" in there that just like seeing things done well and see people enjoy themselves and their cars. Seems like you may be one of those "good guys" too.

The Oman is a good guy, means no harm, don't stomp too hard. Thanks! :thumbsup:

All it takes is a little (and I mean a LITTLE) overtightening of the screws holding the bowls onto the body or holding the base onto the main body. Not saying that is your issue but I do know that socking down the screws is a SURE way to warp parts that have to be FLAT to seal correctly. My carbs were milled flat and they do not leak. My carbs are vintage 1967 thru 1969.

Oman,
I have done all the tightening you suggest to no avail. These were brand new in the box :confused:
Rusty

One of the things I talked about with Jerry is that he milled all of the gasket surfaces to insure a good gasket seal. His comments were that castings do not make a good gasket surface, milled surfaces do. Somewhat like GIGO for gaskets. Bad surfaces, ya get leaks.

Oh, this question brings back memories! Had the option to buy a complete, driver '66 Chevelle SS four speed for $300.00 or just the engine for $60.00. I bought the engine for $60 - it was originally out of a '67 Corvette - 427/400 hp tri carb. Don't we wish we could go back on several opportunities?

Why do you denigrate people you don't know.

Several members here are also NCRS members. Many NCRS members own more than one car like many people here do. They may have "NCRS" cars and also have highly modified cars of various types.

You choose to have a modified Chevelle, others choose to have an original Chevelle, do you attack them too?

Thanks to Chicken Coupe. I can speak for myself.

I only speak up when / after spoken to first. I make friends at shows all the time. I make friends because I don't walk up to strangers and critique their cars. I don't assume that someone else has my vision for his car be it a Corvette or a Chevelle or a Duesenburg. I let them do what they want. It really is OK with me if they disappear up their own A$$ looking for dated fan belts. Once the BS starts coming my way because of what I have chosen to do then I am more than able to shoot it back.

I don't like is people telling me what THEY think I ought to do. I don't like unsolicited negative critiques of my work. If I want someones opinion I will ask and after asking I will accept what is offered in response to my request. I don't want a cookie cutter numbers perfect resto. I don't wanna hear that I am "wasting" a 3x2 manifold that someone needs for their "concourse resto". I bought the damn thing and I will do what I please with it.

I don't wanna hear that my 66 Vette has 67 rocker moldings on it. I put them on, I know they are 67, I LIKE the look of the 67 moldings and I don't give $hit if the resto purists like them or not. I would be so happy if they could just for once shut up, walk past my car and criticise the next Vette they see with "incorrect" parts.

I don't say anything UNTIL I am first attacked then I push back. People who don't like what I have to say can leave at any time JUST LIKE I LEAVE when they start criticizing what I do. For me this all about the first words. I was taught if you don't wanna say something nice don't say anything. I don't say anything to other people about what I think they should do with their cars...I expect the same coutresy in return.

All I hear from these NCRS types is what I should do and what I did wrong and what is not correct on the car. I am tired of it. I am just plain fed up with the automatic assumption that I want to do my car the way the NCRS guys want to do theirs. The near universal compulsion of these folks to tell me how it ought to be tightens my jaws up big time. I don't want that kinda car. I never criticized others doing what they want to do till I got way past just being fed up with them telling me what they think I ought to do.

Don't think for a minute this is only me speaking about being fed up past the eyeballs about this "Your car is incorrect because....." BS. People all over the car hobby are tired of this attitude. People all over the car hobby dislike seeing this same "by the numbers or I will tell you what is wrong" attitude creeping from the Corvette types into onto every other corner of the hobby.

ARE WE CLEAR?????

PS Verle: You are all over me for offending your sensitivities. How come you don't have some words about what is clearly wrong in the statement about "engineers hating the 3x2 systems", "3x2 systems being a marketing product" and "3x2 systems always leaking"? Then we have the jive about "Talking to NCRS guys about 3x2 systems" and "Talking to GM factory workers......" Come on get real!!!! All those points are just plain nonsense and others, besides me, have shown the falacy of those statements in posts in this thread.

I get called out cause I touched on some thin skin. How about equal indignation for those who are all wet in some of their statements?

JeffB,
If you still have the engine I'll give you 5x your purchase price. Now that's a real deal. Do you still have the engine?

Love them 3 little carbs. Takes no brains to make them work just knowledge.

Jon

Anyone know who sang Bad Boy in the 50's

Oh contrare sir.

I met them all the time when I took my 66 Vette to cruises and shows. I met them when they told me what was wrong with my car, what was incorrect and what needed to be worked on. I met with them when they voluntarily pointed out that my 66 had 67 rocker moldings, that my 66 had Rally Wheels from a 67, that my MSd was not factory correct.

I met one dope who saw my A-body with the 3x2. He told me I should NOT have put the 67 3x2 on the A-body because "Those are rare pieces and someone needs that 3x2 system for a concourse correct resto of a 67 435HP car". I was "wasting" it on my A-body and "holding up someones resto". Oh yes I met those guys and they make me SOOOOOO TIRED!!

They have done SOOOOO much for the hobby! Yup they sure have. They have propagated their numbers nonsense, cookie cutter factory perfect right down to the overspray on the engine, poor quality paint on the lower doors resto ideals all over like cow pie in a field. Their numbers this, matching that, date coded something else nonsense has begun seeping into other areas of the hobby.

Areas of the hobby that used to be populated by people who were just interested in the cars for the sake of the cars are now filthy with "investors". They have helped create a "What is it worth" mentality that overshadows the fun that people used to have with their car (Vettes and any other classic car brands included) . There are now more numbers correct 67 BB cars on the road after 40 years than GM ever made new.

Clones are everywhere, restamped blocks pass as, and are sanctioned as, original raising prices ever higher on cars that could in reality be basket case composite cars. Left for dead, picked clean or tragically crashed hulks of all muscle car ancestry are now multi thousand dollar "project cars". If the VIN tag is anywhere in sight the hulk is a pricelss antique. Junk yards are scoured by "collectors" trying to buy VIN tags to install on other cars using reproduction visually correct rivets. All these contributions started in 1974 when the NCRS surfaced from under the pond water.

The list of contributions rolls on and on. Oh yeah they have done so much for the hobby.

I know the feeling.I once owned a "Ratty" 74 Corvette.It had a lot of incorrect things on it, but I really didn't care as I bought it for a daily driver.Little did I know it would become a money pit.But I digress I used to go to the "Pomona" swap meet looking for parts for whatever my project happened to be at the time.On one particular visit,I came back to my car to find a piece of paper under the wiper blade with a list of what was wrong with my car and why.As I am reading this a group of men came up to me and told me I should be parking my car in some other area as this area was for "Corvettes".I let them run the car into the ground and when they were done I thanked them for all the useless information they had so lovingly passed on to me and told them "They Should All Go Forth And Enter Thyself".They of course were shocked and left speechless as I drove off, my non original nor correct for the year side pipes blaring out the rough and tumble L48's best.I guess no matter where you go somebody will have an opinion on what they think something should or should not be or have and the merits of the same.

The L72 engine in our Chevelle developed a rich idle condition after a few years of use. You wouldn't believe how dished the front face of the main body had becomed. Whether from over tighterning the screws (probably) or the heating and cooling cycles the face was high around the four screws holes and dished to the middle. Getting the face flat again did wonders. The 780 4346 on our L78 works fine and it is a 1969 carb. All these carbs were designed to work. If they don't, there is something wrong. I'm sure that Eric Jackson can have your carbs working fine in no time. Some times it is a porous casting or faulty part from the factory, but usually it is wear and tear. At least that is what I have found. There were a few L71 Vettes around back in the day and not too many people wanted to run them.

quote:
I get called out cause I touched on some thin skin. How about equal indignation for those who are all wet in some of their statements?

People display their misinformation or ignorance all the time.
The difference is they are usually not attacking other people.

I hear people criticizing somebody's car and agree with you it is not appropriate unless the car is being judged and it doesn't fit the judging criteria, but in this forum NCRS is not a factor and you attack everyone in it. Not everyone in NCRS is like those who criticized your car and in my experience they are a minority.

I have been a member of NCRS for over 20 years and have a non-stock Corvette. Most appreciate the car like it is. When someone criticizes me for making changes I tell them: "It is my car and is like I want it. When you own the car you can do as you wish."

Categorizing everyone in a group by the actions of a few is just as illogical as some other statements made here. :)

I'd like to find a tripower, but $1500 is my limit for a factory job. The cheapest I've seen is $2500. That takes all the fun out of it when you spend that much money.

JonH, I let that 427/400 horse engine go along with a 396/375 disassembled engine in trade on a 355 race engine. This was in the mid 80's. I had also bought a set of heads and intake off of a 1969 GTO Ram Air IV. Bought the heads/intake for $45 and sold them for $225. Wish I had all that stuff back. I won't mention that I bought two sets of Boss 429 heads and one intake for $60. These were in the trunk of a car that a guy traded in and the car ended up in my county. The guy that found them in his trunk wanted some beer money and sold them at a recycling yard. I bought them up right then and there. The fellow that originally had them tried to track them down as he had supposedly raced with them at Talladega. Sold this setup for $650. Wish I had them, too!!!

quote:
I get called out cause I touched on some thin skin. How about equal indignation for those who are all wet in some of their statements?

People display their misinformation or ignorance all the time.
The difference is they are usually not attacking other people.

I hear people criticizing somebody's car and agree with you it is not appropriate unless the car is being judged and it doesn't fit the judging criteria, but in this forum NCRS is not a factor and you attack everyone in it. Not everyone in NCRS is like those who criticized your car and in my experience they are a minority.

I have been a member of NCRS for over 20 years and have a non-stock Corvette. Most appreciate the car like it is. When someone criticizes me for making changes I tell them: "It is my car and is like I want it. When you own the car you can do as you wish."

Categorizing everyone in a group by the actions of a few is just as illogical as some other statements made here. :)

Perhaps this is not venue for discussing the NCRS. On the other hand the issue of non stock cars modified with Corvette specific parts is germaine to this thread. I saw the 67 3x2 car pictured by Chicken Coupe. The car was really nice and the guy was a great guy to talk to. Fortunately no one got in his face about his 3x2 "holding up a concourse resto" That would have soured the whole day.

READ THE NEXT TWO PARAGRAPHS REAL CAREFULLY!!!!!!!

I didn't throw the NCRS into this thread until someone challenged my contribution by citing "conversations with NCRS guys". Perhaps my statements about 3x2 systems are all wrong and surely the NCRS guys know more than me!! Trouble is I have one, it works and it doesn't leak. I also know better than to think that engineers disliked a 3x2 option that was developed by "marketing". Engineers love complexity it is what they live for.

As I said before I keep my mouth shut till someone throws something in my face. What I read was "Tri Power systems are NG... I KNOW CAUSE I TALKED TO NCRS GUYS. That is BS and it is exactly what pushes my button. The know it all NCRS mystique!!! Same old BS.."you have the wrong goose neck on your car", "you need to change the rocker covers" 3x2 systems don't work. C-R-A-P!!!!

It is not a few / minority in that group. It is MANY in that group or perhaps I have been unfortunate enough to have meet only members of the minority. Why do I doubt that???? I think the NCRS needs to think a little about the message they send. This has been discussed on other Corvette focused forums. The Corvette resto Crowd generally has a bad name. Corvette Snobs I believe is one name.

Make no mistake Verle every car at a Corvette show or at a show were a Corvette section exists is judged. I have seen the process, been an unwilling part of it and heard it in action. I saw a nearly perfect 67 Coupe with a 70 LT1 bottom end and a 65 FI unit. Leather A/C KO's 5 Speed...the car was beautiful. A group of guys looked at the car and proceeded to RIP IT APART. I stood there and listened / eaves dropped if you will. Fortunately the owner was elsewhere. In point of fact I quietly followed along behind the mob as they moved to their next victim. The beating of the 67 continued till they found something wrong with the next car. Referencing a comment from another poster about the note left on his car at Pomona. People leaving notes on other folks cars outlining what is wrong is even more mind boggeling than face to face unsolicited critiques.

Oman I never meant my statement to be a internet tough guy pissing match. I never worked on a tir- power nor have I ever drove one. so you got me there. I am still learning and working my way up on being a NCRS judge. but I have worked on a couple of Holleys I know how they can and what they do when they wanna be troublesome. one thing the person told me why the engineers did not care for them they knew the 66 L72 was the same engine as the 67 L71 only with a tri power. the L72 dyoned at more power then the L71. they also only used one carb on the L88. there was a reason for that. the GM styling department wanted the tri power only because the GTO had it. pure and simple. and they knew they had to do something to keep there vette on top. I am sorry you only meet the wrong people at NCRS at your local shows. I for one don't point out all the wrong thing to the owners unless the owner over hears me talking to my dad what is wrong. and then sometimes they ask me to tell them. its not my mission to preach the wold and Gospel of NCRS. if you own a vette and enjoy driving and working on it thats great. same thing about Chevelles. I restored my car to look very close but hardly any of the numbers are close to the build date. its all what you want.

I never worked on a tir- power nor have I ever drove one. so you got me there. I am still learning and working my way up on being a NCRS judge. but I have worked on a couple of Holleys

I know how they can and what they do when they wanna be troublesome.

one thing the person told me why the engineers did not care for them they knew the 66 L72 was the same engine as the 67 L71 only with a tri power. the L72 dyoned at more power then the L71. they also only used one carb on the L88. there was a reason for that. the GM styling department wanted the tri power only because the GTO had it. pure and simple. and they knew they had to do something to keep there vette on top. I am sorry you only meet the wrong people at NCRS at your local shows.

I for one don't point out all the wrong thing to the owners unless the owner over hears me talking to my dad what is wrong. and then sometimes they ask me to tell them. its not my mission to preach the wold and Gospel of NCRS. if you own a vette and enjoy driving and working on it thats great. same thing about Chevelles. I restored my car to look very close but hardly any of the numbers are close to the build date. its all what you want.

"I never worked....never drove one..."

P-E-R-F-E-C-T!!!! That says it all. Never worked on one never drove one but they are NG based on the NCRS guys you talked to. JUST PERFECT!!!!!! I could rest my case right here but I have a few more things to say.

"one thing the person told me....."

No one said the single 4 BBL was better worse or equal to the 3x2. The issue here is your misinformned statement that the 3x2 is inherently bad. Was the "guy" you talked to privy to inside conversations within GM engineering and marketing and as a result accurate in his statements? You don't know do ya?

"I know ...troublesome Holleys can be when they wanna be".

And I suppose therefore that 40 year old 4 BBL Holleys that are worn out deserve defacto and immediate categorization of L88 and L72 intake systems as NG? Based on what I read here and in your initial post that has to be your conclusion if you logic is consistant. Is it??? Wait I suppose you gotta talk to another NCRS guy before you answer!!

Any 40 year old carb is gonna be trouble. These things worked great right outta the box when new unless something was wrong with the parts or the assy process. They are NOT inherentley leaky or balky. 40 years takes its toll on them all. Why challenge what an owner of a 3x2 says based on his experiences? If you worked on one, drove one or owned a car with one then your experience is just as valid as mine. By your own words you have no ground to stand on 'cept the anonymous statements of the expert you talked to. You make the statements you did because you "Talked to someone" ?????

"If you own a Vette and .........."

I do own one and I DID enjoy driving it till every swinging dick wanna be old Vette guy I ran across had something to say about it. "I had one just like it but mine had (...........)". Insert your favorite old Vette fairy tale in the parens! "You need to fix / change / remove Etc Etc Etc" More BS. Less enjoyment.

It just got so tedious listening to stuff like listed immediately above and stuff like your "The 3x2 was great but they all leak and they are all hard to .............." After a while ya wanna talk to someone who knows what he is talking about not someone who is mouthing what he heard from someone else who likely is equally uninformed.

Stick to your judging sheets, leave your opinions about things you have no experience with at home.

Oman,
How about a photo of your 427. I would like to judge it in private though. How often do you replace the power valve?

Jon

the big tuning trick back in the day was to run a a 500 cfm center carb and keep the outboards stock,along with running mechanical linkage.
But,if you listened to the engineers and NCRS guys,nobody would have tried it ;)

Oman,
How about a photo of your 427. I would like to judge it in private though. How often do you replace the power valve?
Jon

Judge away Jon. The picture is already in this thread. Be sure you check for the correct numbers on the gaskets and bolts. Never replaced the power valve. BTW the engine is an LS6 454 not a 427.

Oman,

Very good and also enjoy the bit of humor. Keep up the good work.

Jon

Oman,

Very good and also enjoy the bit of humor. Keep up the good work.

Jon

Honestly Jon (Honest, Jon?) I lost my sense of humor on this thread. Happens alot under the circumstances that existed in a couple of posts.

Something to consider here if your gonna do any work with these Holley carbs. Guys like Jerry Luck (there are a couple of others) can make these carbs as good as if not better than new. Back before the wind blew and the $hit flew in this thread I said that my crabs looked like they had been laying in the dirt at a junk yard. I think the pictures of the finished carbs Jerry did speak for themselves.

The center carb on the 3x2 is in reality no more than the front half of the 4160 / 4150 series 4 bbl. As such most parts that go in the front of the 41xx series carbs can go in the center 2 bbl of the 3x2 system. In a bigger sense consider the 3x2 as delivered by the factory as being no more than a "6 barrel" vacum secondary carb! The only real difference being that the outboard 4 barrels are detached from the "primary" side of the "6 barrel system" AKA the center carb.

As to the power valve. There are anti backfire / power valve saver aftermarket kits, from Holley I believe, that are supposed to save the power valve in the event of a backfire. They are nothing more than a small ball that sits in some vac passage. They are supposed to prevent a blast of air from rupturing the power valves when the engine backfires. To be clear here: I don't know if Jerry puts such a thing in the carbs he builds, I don't even know if they work but I do know they are available.

Also, and PLEASE put this in the FWIW category: Personally I have not had a lot of bad luck with killing power valves on the 3x2 or on other Holley 4 bbl carbs. Some people fuss and fret about the darn valves. I have one friend who gets all shook up evey time his car backfires on a cold start up. "Oh no here we go AGAIN I am gonna have to tear the carb apart AGAIN"! It seems to me that his carb is always OK after these heart stopping events. I kinda dismiss all the near cardiac arrest reactions he has to every backfire. I think (I am gonna say this right up front (I DON"T KNOW I JUST SUSPECT) that this backfire = "instant power valve failure" thing MIGHT be over stated.

If you are doing a 3x2 and there is anything I can help with ...HPEXPATRIOT@yahoo.com.

The Holley factory in Bowling Green KY wil do a complete rebuild with period correct parts on those deuces :yes: there was a three page spread in Muscle Car Review a few months back on this service

The Holley factory in Bowling Green KY wil do a complete rebuild with period correct parts on those deuces :yes: there was a three page spread in Muscle Car Review a few months back on this service

Call me prejudice but I think Jerry Luck does better work. Not gonna go deeper on this but Jerry is the restorer of choice (along with one or two other guys) for the hard core gotta have it perfect guys. Nuff said.

Only those that have been here since the very early days will remember him. But the late Skip Cain used this setup on his very nice 67SS back in the 1990s. That car was sold shortly after his passing. Wonder what happened to it?

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=57&pictureid=382

Just figured I'd add another,fits under '66 hood with room to spare,does have more arse than the stock Holley 4 bbl.....585 cfm(I think) vs.1100+. Bought them @Carlisle in 1983 because I thought they were cool....:D

Skip Cain was such a great and helpful guy here that, to those of us who remember him, he will never die and will always be with this web site. Every so often someone brings up something that he added back in the day. I loved that Chevelle.

Back before the wind blew and the $-hit flew in this thread I said that my crabs looked like they had been laying in the dirt at a junk yard.



EEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWW ......... NASTY:D

I think you're adding a little humor to this thread and you might not even know it !!:yes:

EEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWW ......... NASTY:D

I think you're adding a little humor to this thread and you might not even know it !!:yes:

Yeah how about that.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CRABS!!!!

As to the humor. I am sure some people didn't see anything humorous in what I had to say!!!!!

Hey guys the tri power setup on that beautiful 67 is it a tall or short intake

Hey guys the tri power setup on that beautiful 67 is it a tall or short intake

Short