I know this is a rerun from the 454 hunters thread, but wanted to start a build thread for my new 454 project going into my 1966 Olds Cutlass....

Greg found me a killer deal on a Running/Driving 454 with 5k miles on it (OTC/rebuider motor) for $500!
Came with all accessories & brackets, Edelbrock Performer Intake & Edelbrock 750 electric choke carb.

Block 19068286 ..... 1990-91 Gen IV 4bolt 454 block
Heads 336781 ........ Oval Port/Open Chamber/118cc chamber, 256/114cc ports
Intake .............. Edelbrock Performer 2.0 intake

Pics from the donor vehicle and on its way home....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/DSC00263.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/DSC00270.jpg

-------------------------------

The car currently has its original HD 3spd Manual tranny in it. THis is the Ford Toploader 3spd that Olds/Buick/Pontiac used in the mid 60's.

I would prefer to keep the car a stick shift, so we'll see if i can find a way to hook this tranny up to the 454, or if i'll need to source a 4spd, or if i'll switch over to an automatic (at least until i can afford to do a 4spd)

Rear end is the original BOP 10 bolt, 3.23 open carrier
This will get upgraded eventually, but is at the very bottom of the priority list.


-------------------------------

Motor upgrade plans...
Pretty basic

Port match the intake
Lunati 60203 cam/lifters (other suggestions appreciated)
Roller rockers
Headers
Holly 750DP

------------------------------

Anyway, thats where we are at.
Still need to make time to get over to my neighbors and get the Th400 disconnected from the block and get it on an engine stand.

:)

Suggestions? Heh, heh.

With your heads, pistons at least .023" factory down the hole, possibly more if 'rebuilder pistons' were used, stock gasket of .040"...looking at 7.9:1--8:1 CR.
60203 with 227/233* .542/.544" 110 LSA would "Ideally" like more CR IMHO. I am pretty convinced my 226/226* cam would like more than the 8.8:1 that I have....
Maybe a 60202 219/227* .530/.542" 112 LSA (maybe ground a tad tighter 110 or 108 LSA)
Compared to the POS that is in there....even the 60202 is HUGE

I was thinking the same, your comp ratio may be a tad low for that cam... Just build it mega torquey so its just like a 455. :D Do you have numbers on the cam that is in it now?

Why not just figure out how to match it to your trans and drop it in? The cam that's in it should be a torque monster and with your gears and an open diff, it should be a hell of a crusier and fast off the line.

Save/trade for your speed parts and pull it later for the upgrades and run the piss out of it now.

I think I'm gonna agree with Mark on this one...

I'd spend the immediate cash getting in the car and driving.

Then plot your evil speed upgrades.

Dropping it in as-is this year has merit. Great cruiser as Mark said. Once you start sliding down the slope of improvements, hard to stop before you hit the abyss of hotrodding.
I am sure the stock cam will be done dealing at 4000 rps.

I would prefer to keep the car a stick shift, so we'll see if i can find a way to hook this tranny up to the 454, :)

Here's something to think about, and I think you know a machinest;)

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/bop-manual-trans-chevy-bellhousing-168423.html

Here's something to think about, and I think you know a machinest;)

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/bop-manual-trans-chevy-bellhousing-168423.html

They are saying its as easy as marking & drilling the mounting flange holes in a chevy bellhousing....

Wouldn't the mounting holes have to be super accurate to be right?
Isn't that what the offset dowls do that I've heard about when setting up M/Ts?

Mike P offered me kevins old Lakewood scattersheild bell since he is going to use a stock one... Maybe thats the way to go... mark, drill, weld some nuts on the inside of the bell for the mounting bolts.

I'd wait, take the time to do everything I wanted to do, then put it all in at once. You still have a running/driving car with an engine currently. No regrets this way.

Id leave the internals alone. Some headers and maybe a carb if you dont wana run the edelbrock. Put it in and send BG crying all the way home when you smash him at the track.:D

They are saying its as easy as marking & drilling the mounting flange holes in a chevy bellhousing....

Wouldn't the mounting holes have to be super accurate to be right?
Isn't that what the offset dowls do that I've heard about when setting up M/Ts?

Mike P offered me kevins old Lakewood scattersheild bell since he is going to use a stock one... Maybe thats the way to go... mark, drill, weld some nuts on the inside of the bell for the mounting bolts.

If I read it correctly, lining up the trans isn't the issue, bolting the trans to the bell is. Bolt the bell to the block, stab the trans in the register bore, mark and drill the bell. The offset dowels align the bell to the block, not the trans to the bell, and are critical for TKOs. I think the factory transmissions are more forgiving. You could still index in the bell, stab in the trans and drill it, the trans should be square to the bell if the input shaft is in the pilot bushing and the mounting flange is flat against the bell.

I'd wait, take the time to do everything I wanted to do, then put it all in at once. You still have a running/driving car with an engine currently. No regrets this way.

Engine isn't going in tomorrow so don't worry.

If I can get it so i can re-use my 3spd stick with the 454, then it will go in the car this summer.

If i can't make the 3spd work, I will toy with the idea of chanigng to Th400- but again won't get into the car until summer or later.

I'm not too likely to put the motor in the car as it is today... As mike Said, the car runs and drives great now- I'm not going to take it apart to drop that motor in in stock form :noway:

That 1980 spec truck cammed 454 probably wouldn't be that much more impressive than stock 290hp olds motor in my car now- It will definitely get a new cam before it gets dropped in.

I will probably pull the heads off in the next week or so just so i can see what the bore is, pistons, and how deep down there are so i can accurately calculate compression.

Bottom end will get inspected as well when the pan is off... probably change out to an HV oil pump while its apart.

If I read it correctly, lining up the trans isn't the issue, bolting the trans to the bell is. Bolt the bell to the block, stab the trans in the register bore, mark and drill the bell. The offset dowels align the bell to the block, not the trans to the bell, and are critical for TKOs. I think the factory transmissions are more forgiving. You could still index in the bell, stab in the trans and drill it, the trans should be square to the bell if the input shaft is in the pilot bushing and the mounting flange is flat against the bell.

Ok, that makes sense. Actually marking the bell holes will be even easier than that... the BOP housings like i already have are drilled for both the ford pattern and the muncie pattern- so i should be able to pull my bellhousing off- make a template of both bolt patterns, line it up on the chevy bellhousing and drill the ford holes.

As long as the hub flange on the transmission is fully seated and the front mating surface is flat against the bellhousing, you shouldn't have any problems.....that hub isn't going to move side to side or up and down if it's fully seated in the bellhousing bore. Use the Jerico page I linked in the other thread as a guide where to grind the top holes, then do the bottom ones, shouldn't be bad.

EDIT I see you responded about the bellhousing already, I'd like to see it actually....never seen one of those dual bolt pattern factory ones.

That 1980 spec truck cammed 454 probably wouldn't be that much more impressive than stock 290hp olds motor in my car now-

Horsepower, no, but the difference in torque would suprise you and its torque that gets you moving.

Horsepower, no, but the difference in torque would suprise you and its torque that gets you moving.

True... Well if the budget still looks bleak come summertime, i may be tempeted to throw it in there as-is afterall. We'll see.

Being able to re-use the existing tranny makes the whole project much easier.

Cool deal Ben!! :thumbsup:
The Cutlass will go from the slow and curious to the fast and the furious :D ;) j/k
Good motor to mess with..If you can get a mild duration solid cam in there with lots of lift would be very ideal..the 60203 would work fine too. Don't let the low compression scare you into using some short duration,low lift cam..remember,you got cubes...FWIW..the 1971 454 LS6 had 9.0 to 1 compression with a 242 @.050 cam, and huge rectangular port heads..so your oval port 8 to 1 motor will be fine with something in the 230ish @.050
HV oil pump like Doc mentioned too

I am very surprised that no one yet has said to put it in as is and spray it!

I am very surprised that no one yet has said to put it in as is and spray it!

We don't need to say that, it's an automatic cluase kicked into effect when he posted.:yes:

We don't need to say that, it's an automatic cluase kicked into effect when he posted.:yes:

Ahhhh! I see, my mistake, I should have known that

If it's got cast pistons, stay away from the spray.

I would do the cam/spring swap and ask Daryl to shave the heads to get the cr you want, spend a long few days doing some home porting and save up for the timing chain, carb, pan, and HV oil pump.

Just curious as to why you and Doc are recommending a HV oil pump?


...Cool deal Ben!! :thumbsup:
The Cutlass will go from the slow and curious to the fast and the furious :D ;) j/k
Good motor to mess with..If you can get a mild duration solid cam in there with lots of lift would be very ideal..the 60203 would work fine too. Don't let the low compression scare you into using some short duration,low lift cam..remember,you got cubes...FWIW..the 1971 454 LS6 had 9.0 to 1 compression with a 242 @.050 cam, and huge rectangular port heads..so your oval port 8 to 1 motor will be fine with something in the 230ish @.050
HV oil pump like Doc mentioned too

I know where a set of iron ovals "massaged" by doc could be had. They'd put your comp at about 9.75:1

Just curious as to why you and Doc are recommending a HV oil pump?
...

While it may use a few extra HP I would rather run a little extra oil thru on something that's going to get beat on. Mild to stock cruiser with close to zero abuse I'd have no issue with a stock pump.

While it may use a few extra HP I would rather run a little extra oil thru on something that's going to get beat on. Mild to stock cruiser with close to zero abuse I'd have no issue with a stock pump.

thanks Doc. I have been trying to decide which pump to use on my build

You could slide me the stock cam Rambo. I could have the boys at Delta grind up a lil something fer ya

A 'stock' 454 even with low compression will feel like a star ship compared to the Olds engine. No oiling issues with the stock Melling pump I got from Doc. But 5100 rpm shifts are hardly a strain on a stock oil pump.
Tell ya what Rambo...
If you pull the heads, I will donate some shim head gaskets to your cause. I may have some other gaskets here too, cut your costs a bit. Pretty sure I have a pan set and intake gaskets galore.

Just picking on Mr 4 Speed here:
The jury is still out in the big cam/low compression engine combo. Awaiting track times with upgraded converter....stuck in the low 13s. Right now, the modest cam/modest compression combo is a certain 70 Elky has superior track times. ;)


Bet Doc is gonna chime in here "TQ-20" and old Erson grind.

Very cool that the HD 3 spd "should" have all the correct GM nose stuff.
10-spline sounds correct.... It should have no slop with the nose ring seating into the bell housing. Drill right down the trans ear holes or drill guide holes with a smaller bit using a collar. Then use the right bit accouting for the thread tapping.

Carb & Tranny are on CL now... We'll see if i can't get these sold quick and pay off a chunk of what i owe Eric...

was over looking under the valve covers and, they sure are clean under there! :thumbsup:

...If you pull the heads, I will donate some shim head gaskets to your cause. I may have some other gaskets here too, cut your costs a bit. Pretty sure I have a pan set and intake gaskets galore.


Much appreciated! Anybody have a BBC passenger car oil pan they'd like to donate to the cause?

See, I already gotcha thinking about removing the heads....
I have some springs at Doc's I will donate if they are up to the task...get with Doc.
Probably too mild with the seat pressure for a serious cam...these good for a little bit above stock.
A head shave while they are apart, maybe some bowl work before rebuild, the shim gaskets...all low buck stuff. Pretty easy to go from 8:1 to 8.5:1

I think Summit has stock pans for about $30. As a few have suggested shim gaskets would be a help bump compression, remember the '71 LS-5 was 8.5:1 and had 365HP/465TQ with a tiny cam and crappy intake/exhaust. Just a few mild upgrades should put you around 400HP/500TQ.

Just picking on Mr 4 Speed here:
The jury is still out in the big cam/low compression engine combo. Awaiting track times with upgraded converter....stuck in the low 13s. Right now, the modest cam/modest compression combo is a certain 70 Elky has superior track times. ;)


:rolleyes: ;) :) (I am about to be tongue in cheek with my comments)
George,sometimes life gets in the way and getting to the track isn't on everyones priority list.My friend is also a parent and a small business owner..closest track is 129 miles away for us.FWIW,the low compression 454 has only been to the track twice...where would you be if you only went to the track twice with your Elky?
One thing we did find...the bottom side of the cap where the coil sits was flipping melted!
So,with that fixed and the new convertor..who knows...we'll have to wait until spring my friend.

I know where a set of iron ovals "massaged" by doc could be had. They'd put your comp at about 9.75:1

what size are the combustion chambers to make a flat top 454 end up with 9.75 to 1 ?
I am sure Ben's 454 doesn't have zero deck clearance either...

Mike has generously offered to let me borrow kevins old scattershield/block plate indefinitely if they will work... don't really need the fancy stuff at this power level, but I'm thinking drilling that for the ford tranny bolt pattern will be easier than trying to drill & reinforce a stock aluminum one....

Thanks Mike!

what size are the combustion chambers to make a flat top 454 end up with 9.75 to 1 ?
I am sure Ben's 454 doesn't have zero deck clearance either...

94cc with a .040 quench puts yah right there

Much appreciated! Anybody have a BBC passenger car oil pan they'd like to donate to the cause?

You can have my old one. I'll bring it with me next week.

You can have my old one. I'll bring it with me next week.

Thanks John!!! :thumbsup:

:rolleyes: ;) :) (I am about to be tongue in cheek with my comments)
George,sometimes life gets in the way and getting to the track isn't on everyones priority list.My friend is also a parent and a small business owner..closest track is 129 miles away for us.FWIW,the low compression 454 has only been to the track twice...where would you be if you only went to the track twice with your Elky?
One thing we did find...the bottom side of the cap where the coil sits was flipping melted!
So,with that fixed and the new convertor..who knows...we'll have to wait until spring my friend.

Chris,
Nothin but 'love' here pal. Yes, I can write a few novels about life getting in the way of racing. Am blessed to have a job, blessed to have three MAJOR cash drains mostly behind me (getting #1 into a home, #2's college behind me but the remodel still lingers like Leishmaniasis*)...so more time now with most of the major remodel done and cash for fun than before.

I'd still be in the bottom 13s/12.9s if I had kept the 2500 converter. At that stage, I had a few outings.....so your pal's SS69 and my Elky were comparable. So I upgraded the converter and made some changes...... Awaiting track outings for your pal with similar upgrades, custom converter.
I am really curious about the low compression/big cam combos from an academic standpoint for sure.

*Leishmaniasis (LEASH-man-EYE-uh-sis), which soldiers call the "Baghdad Boil," is carried by biting sand flies and doesn't spread from person to person. It causes skin lesions that if untreated may take months, even years, to heal and can be disfiguring, doctors say. A few soldiers I knew got this in Iraq. Not fun. Pics can be found here if you are a sicko and wanna get grossed-out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leishmaniasis

Anyway, I love that pic you have posted a few times of that 69SS torquing-up. Here is the Elky....another budget engine, different recipe. It is all about inexpensive power

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii258/1966malibu/Bremerton%208-14-09/Bremerton8-14-09003_0002a.jpg

Carb is Sold- Exhaust manifolds & tranny are next!!!

Id leave the internals alone. Some headers and maybe a carb if you dont wana run the edelbrock. Put it in and send BG crying all the way home when you smash him at the track.:D

X100

Engine isn't going in tomorrow so don't worry.
.

Just add Nitrous and drop it in. It'll run well into the 12's as is. Won't go in tomorrow but how about next week. What headers will fit?

You could slide me the stock cam Rambo. I could have the boys at Delta grind up a lil something fer ya

Bet Doc is gonna chime in here "TQ-20" and old Erson grind.
.

Get your self a UDKETTBO grind. :D

That TQ-20 makes nasty torque in a low compression 454. Runs out about 5000-5200 but gobs of power below.

What headers will fit?

I'm going to guess that any '66 big block A-Body headers should fit.

Maybe these for shorties?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PTE-H8012/

These are cheap but do they fit correctly?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G9010/

or these for full length? I'm not sure what you guys have found fits best for ground clearance, but I'm pretty sure they weren't Summits.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HOK-2455HKR/

Get your self a UDKETTBO grind. :D


Under Drive????????????:)

I like my mid lengths.

Tight budget or not- That stock cam will be getting replaced No question about it.

cam options are still wide open to suggestion.
I've always wanted to run a Solid lift just because they are cool... But hydro will probably be cheaper?

The motor is definietly low comp- how low we won't know until I pull the heads this weekend. For now we'll assume 8.0CR...
George offered up some shim head gaskets gratis (Thanks!), so that helps, when we get to reassembly time we'll see if i can scratch up some coin to have them shaved by the arlington barber.

For Carbs-it will by my current Holly DP w/ the HP 750 center section swapped in- or i'll sell it whole in its 650db form and find a used 800 dp to go on it.

The Current Intake will get port matched

Headers- I've always had good luck with the fit of hedmans and I like the ball flanges, I'll have to look again, but i think their uncoated, long tube, a-body header is about $160 & should fit my car fine. I'll have to check the foot notes for manual tranny though...

HV oil pump will go in when the replacing the pan w/ the one being donated by John (Thanks!)

Replacing timing set w/ new dual roller chain

Roller rockers... Probably not right now, can always add later.

Tranny- Mike offered up a long term loan on Kevins old Lakewood Scattersheild (THanks!)- since its all steel it should be easy to drill & weld nuts to for the bolt pattern for my Ford 3spd- SO that means my drive shaft will be ok for a little longer... U-joints were already in need of replacing, will have to get changed at that point...

Rear End... Its lame of course, but since its only a peg leg it should stand up to the power- won't be able to say the same for the right rear tire- but hey, i was complaining i couldn't Roast em before wasn't I?

Rear upgrade will have to wait a while... Maybe NEXT winter.

Other...
The front suspension on the car is TOAST... 250k 44year old type of toast.
THe ball joints are so worn that when i brake hard the drums shudder.

I have a new PST kit- and about 90% of what i need for the front disk swap- That will happen this winter before the engine upgrade- as i don't want to be trying to do both at the same time.

So thats where i'm at on day 3 :)

So back to cams... :)

Darryl- tell me more aobut the cams you were talking about.
Talk to me about Solid and why I should run one in this motor, or not.

(rear gears are currently 3.23- but when i upgrade the rear it will likely be 3.73's if that has any bearing on cam choices)

Does it make sense to run a baby solid with a low compression budget motor? Seems you might as well just go cheapy hydraulic until you really start to upgrade things, then get a big solid. IMHO...

I don't see a reason not to go solid except for the intake. A good solid ft cam would be sweet, but the biggest advantage would be the upper rpm range hp and your intake won't support it past 5,500.

Fair enough Mike, I suppose a solid isnt anymore money.. I guess I just always think hotter when I think solid cam. Does he really need to take it above 5500? I know I had the 60204 and ported heads and it was just about done by 5500...
I'm just thinking why not run it as is, will make a great fast cruiser. Save up and then go balls to the wall rather than compromising what you want now.

I don't see a reason not to go solid except for the intake. A good solid ft cam would be sweet, but the biggest advantage would be the upper rpm range hp and your intake won't support it past 5,500.

It will if its ported;)

I don't see a reason not to go solid except for the intake. A good solid ft cam would be sweet, but the biggest advantage would be the upper rpm range hp and your intake won't support it past 5,500.

That's what the bottle will be for,,,,,,blow right on past 5500 and up to 7000. :D

All I can say is do it once and do it right. You have alot to chose from and have seen alot of combo's that work well. Take your pic.:yes:

I say get a steel 396 crank and some 427 pistons and really build a killer high RPM street engine. :yes::D

I absolutely agree do it once do it right. I'm still saying if you dont have money to upgrade pistons, rod bolts, heads, etc. Dont waste your money with upgrades that will have to be changed out in a year or 2 when you have enough money to do what you really want. I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money(well yes I will :D) but I think you will enjoy what you've got already. You have plenty of costs coming up in the conversion, you will need coils, maybe upgraded cooling too.. Can't be any slower than your current setup. :noway:

PS: A cam can be changed out in a day/weekend... I would rather see you driving the car next summer than still saving for all these upgrades.

Just to be clear here- i'm trying to build a motor that is comperable to what i had in my elky.

If i can make it a tad better w/o costing a ton, great. If its a tad less, no worries either.
My understanding is that should be no biggie, even with a low comp, cast piston motor.

With that in mind- I have no desire whatsoever to pull out what is a good running & reliable engine in my car now for this motor in its stock form. I already have suspension & brake work that needs to be done- The engine swap itself will require major exhaust changes, fuel system changes, cooling changes, etc . So i'd rather wait a little bit until i can do it all the way I want- instead of trying to hack it together and save money just to get it in the car.

I'm glad I waited to get everything together before pulling apart my '70, I still drove it alot this summer as is. I won't be pulling anything apart on that car untill every last piece I need is in my shop. I want to drive in the shop on a saturday morning and be driving it out sunday.

Wait untill everthing is ready so your not waiting to enjoy good weather driving for the last couple parts.

i'm glad i waited to get everything together before pulling apart my '70, i still drove it alot this summer as is. I won't be pulling anything apart on that car untill every last piece i need is in my shop. I want to drive in the shop on a saturday morning and be driving it out sunday.

Wait untill everthing is ready so your not waiting to enjoy good weather driving for the last couple parts.

exactly my thinking!

Now back to cam choices...

I know we were talking the 60203 Voodoo cam which we know is a strong running cam up to its rpm limit:


Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 268/276
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 227/233
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .542/.554
LSA/ICL: 110/106
Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
RPM Range: 1800-6200
Includes: Cam Kit

Part Number: 60203LK

Jobber Price: $216.55



In the interest of saving a buck or two... how would something like this compare?


Advertised Duration (Intake/Exhaust) 290/300
Duration @.050" (Intake/Exhaust) 224/234
Gross Valve Lift (Intake/Exhaust) .527"/.553"
Lobe Seperation 112
Intake Center Line 107
RPM Range 1500-5500
Cam and lifters included in kit


Part Number: 10202LK

Jobber Price: $139.99

or somewhere between the two...


COMP Cams
Manufacturer's Part Number CL11-207-3
Product Line COMP Cams Magnum Hydraulic Cam and Lifter Kits
Summit Racing Part Number CCA-CL11-207-3

Cam Style Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range 1,500-5,800
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 224
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 224
Duration at 050 inch Lift 224 int./224 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration 270
Advertised Exhaust Duration 270
Advertised Duration 270 int./270 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.510 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.510 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.510 int./0.510 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees) 110

$160.75

Or go Elgin and almost free...


Elgin, Hyd. Flat Tappet Cam & Lifter Kit, Chev BB, .539/.539
Chev BB
Lift: .539/.539
Adv. Duration: 292/304
Duration @ .050": 228/238
Lobe Center: 114
2200-6200, Very strong mid-range, Choppy idle
$99.95


or a couple of dollars more...

Elgin, Hyd. Flat Tappet Cam & Lifters, Chev BB, .519/.519
Chev BB
Lift: .519/.519
Duration: 284/284
Duration @ .050": 218/218
Lobe Separation: 110 LC
Noticeable idle, 2400 to 5800 RPM power range
In Stock
$107.95

I guess I gotta get Mr Ahsum Rambo behind the wheel of the Elky Valdez...he's having BBC withdrawl symptoms!

I'd recommend running it with few upgrades...a decent running engine now from what I understand. Cam change, springs to match, port the intake. Smallish cam to work with the modest compression, make the most power below 5500 rpm to preserve the cast pistons.

Can't find Erson in Mr Gasket any more....sad to see another one go.
Here is a link to Isky
http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html
pg 104 for the milder BBC cams
270 Mega though rated higher rpms than what we are looking for will be tamed by a 454.
A tad smaller duration than what I have, a bit more lift, 108 LSA...think this could be a contender

Just to be clear here- i'm trying to build a motor that is comperable to what i had in my elky.


Oh, ok. I made the mistake of thinking you'd want the motor to have more balls than a Volvo station wagon this time around...........my mistake:p

Just to be clear here- i'm trying to build a motor that is comperable to what i had in my elky.

Oh, ok. I made the mistake of thinking you'd want the motor to have more balls than a Volvo station wagon this time around...........my mistake:p

& Mark comes from the top rope with a knockout shot!:hurray:


Seriously I still say Lunati 60203,it will work great & sound good too.

X2 on the 60203. Run it on a 103-105 ICL and it'll rip

X2 on the 60203. Run it on a 103-105 ICL and it'll rip

Hmmmmm never thought of that.........:noway:

I ran the 60203 in my '68 to a 12.29 on engine, and 11.61 on spray with a Performer intake, 1 3/4" headers, pertronix style ignition module and an underachieving fuel system.

Ben, May have a good deal for you on the muncie/bell/centerforce clutch out of my dads 55 next winter.

X2 on the 60203. Run it on a 103-105 ICL and it'll rip

Is the 103-105 ICL somethign that has to be custom ground when the cam is ordered, or is that just a different way of referring to how its degreed?

I'm still trying to absorb some of this cam knowledge...

Ben, May have a good deal for you on the muncie/bell/centerforce clutch out of my dads 55 next winter.

Cool, keep me in mind!

Is the 103-105 ICL somethign that has to be custom ground when the cam is ordered, or is that just a different way of referring to how its degreed?

I'm still trying to absorb some of this cam knowledge...

its how the cam is 'degreed in'.

Oh, ok. I made the mistake of thinking you'd want the motor to have more balls than a Volvo station wagon this time around...........my mistake:p

So, Did you finnaly get your little nash rambler out of second gear? ;)

Just to be clear here- i'm trying to build a motor that is comperable to what i had in my elky.
.

Hopefully it doesnt burn as much oil! :(

So, Did you finnaly get your little nash rambler out of second gear? ;)

Sold it..................................

So, Did you finnaly get your little nash rambler out of second gear? ;)

Sold it..................................

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.

I feel dumber for watching that video:sad:

I feel dumber for watching that video:sad:

I thought it was pretty cool, but I'm imagining some 5th grader making it....

Those are some 'leet MS Paint hax right there. (But I could do better. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/Fall_Ryan/Manga%20Cars/Chevelleredux.png))

Got the tranny off last night and motor on the stand. Cleaned it up a little bit and pulled the intake. Pleasantly surprised to see some HUGE pushrods in there!

Anyway, Heads and pan will come off tomorrow night for more in depth inspection.

As required with any decent update, here are some pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/DSC00288.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/DSC00289.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/DSC00290.jpg

Have had a few serious calls on the tranny, with any luck it will sell this weekend.

:thumbsup:

Its so much more fun when you build your own!
Looks like 3/8" pushrods (at least) Rambo. Got any sexy shots with the valve covers off?

Got any sexy shots with the valve covers off?

You're starting to sound like Dave:sad:

Those pushrods look like the 3/8" ones I bought from Summit under their brand.

Did you hire a professional hand model for that shot?
Realy cool chevy truck in the background.
Nice score Ben!

:D Must be your hand Eric. :yes: Looks like they havent touched a wrench in months! ;)

Busted!

That engine IS clean as a whistle inside for sure!
Can't wait to see what the cylinders and piston tops look like.
Was looking at the best way to get the MRG 1131 shim gaskets, .020" thick.
If the slugs are .023" DITH, these gaskets are purrrfect.

I do have a pair of #390 98cc chamber heads at Docs. These would bump you to 9.2:1CR or there about....just food for thought.

That is pretty clean, I think you oughta stroke and bore it, and put some aftermarket aluminum heads on it, with a TKO.

heads & oil pan will come off for inspection tomorrow night

Just sold the transmission, which makes this officially a free motor!! :hurray:

Thats the way to do it! :thumbsup:

Good-going! Got the heads off yet? Whatcher waiting on?
Am curious, what brand and number spark plugs are in there?

Nice going Ben!:hurray:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/IMG_0592.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/IMG_0593.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/IMG_0594.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/IMG_0595.jpg


So we are at .080 over... flattops, no ridge in bore, crosshatch looks like it was done yesterday. Eric guestimated pistons are .022 down in the hole

appears that heads & deck have been shaved before, crosshatch on both mating surfaces is present.

Pan will come off tomorrow or sunday for bottom end inspection when i haul the engine back home to store it.

:thumbsup:

That engine IS clean as a whistle inside for sure!
Can't wait to see what the cylinders and piston tops look like.
Was looking at the best way to get the MRG 1131 shim gaskets, .020" thick.
If the slugs are .023" DITH, these gaskets are purrrfect.

I do have a pair of #390 98cc chamber heads at Docs. These would bump you to 9.2:1CR or there about....just food for thought.

Gimme a little time to do some reading and figure out what i need to do, but we may talk.
What kind of condition are your heads in?

That's a nice start, Ben:yes:. So you've got what, around 471 cubes there now? I see the oil pressure switch is already in the right location for you. Everything does look really clean.

Rambo
.022 DITH .04 stock gasket thickness, 119cc (est), 4.370, gasket bore .4cc piston volume is a good guess, 4" stroke = 7.92:1

swap the .04" factory gasket for a .02 shim and you get 8.248
let us suppose you are lucky and now have 118cc chamber volume. with the thin gasket you have 8.3:1
117 cc = 8.358:1

98cc = 9.6:1 with the shim gasket. Now a very viable 60203 situation

soooooooooooooooo, ya got the scattershield, guess headers too....
Whatcha thinking tonight?

soooooooooooooooo, ya got the scattershield, guess headers too....
Whatcha thinking tonight?

Headers? Did santa miss dropping something off for me?

I think outcast might have left me his old oil pan w/ dave- but i'll have to make a trip up that way to pick it up.

If someone has an extra set of used headers, that would be awesome too, but so far that must be a surprise from santa if its coming.

Just going online to do some research details on those heads you have...
What is the story with them? Up at darryls to be shaved? valve job? ported? Condition of valves, hard seats, ?

Mine are a little sooty from the dude running way too rich, but it wipes right off and everything including valves looks brand new...

Othewise, got home to late tonight to get the car out to make room to roll the engine/stand over from Erics garage. WIll do it tomorrow when greg drops by.

I need to get out there tonight for a little bit and clean up some more & make more space.

Hell, there was a lotta stuff in the back of the red pickup this AM.

The heads at Doc's are casting 390, late 66 for very early 67 model car. They are supposedly runner heads. I have not had them apart...very likely totally stock, 'probably' need a rebuild, but ya never know. They do look a bit nasty.

These heads would have been great for my 454v1. I bought them AFTER the engine was together with my Vette take-off 063 heads. Was thinking the 8.8:1 would not deliver the mail...might need a CR upgrade. Alas, the 454v1 did just fine with 8.8:1. Sooooo I never had the 390 heads gone through.

Mattie is 'interested' in them to pump up his 402 but has yet to leave a deposit....

I may be interested- would like to hear a few other folks chime in to hear their thoughts.. including value of the 781s vs 390s...

Considering my budget- if the 390s need full rebuild including hardend seats- thats a lot of hassle & expense when i have heads that are ready to run(just needing new springs).. although obviously ~9.6 compression is much more desireable than 8.3....

390's are what were on my 396 when I purchased the car. I did the full port job on them then proceeded to crack them and now they are mock up junk. I believe they were a one year only casting #.

They are a great head with a very small chamber to raise your CR if your running flat top pistons. If your not going to put domes in then they are the ones to run. Also the 702's would also work. Darryl did a set up for me after I wasted the 390's with just stock valves nothing special and ran 12.95 on the 396. I think he may still have them ready to install. Might be a good trade for the 781's. Im sure the 781's are a better head but it all depends on what pistons your running.

390's are what were on my 396 when I purchased the car. I did the full port job on them then proceeded to crack them and now they are mock up junk. I believe they were a one year only casting #.

They are a great head with a very small chamber to raise your CR if your running flat top pistons. If your not going to put domes in then they are the ones to run. Also the 702's would also work. Darryl did a set up for me after I wasted the 390's with just stock valves nothing special and ran 12.95 on the 396. I think he may still have them ready to install. Might be a good trade for the 781's. Im sure the 781's are a better head but it all depends on what pistons your running.

I'll have to talk to Darryl and see if he still has them. If they are setup and ready to roll, I'd be interested.

390 are what were on my 427 when I bought it, I like them but mine did have lots of good work done to them. A closed chamber head is your best bet, you'll get more power from the compression increase than the mild flow increase from open chambers.

soooooooooooooooo, ya got the scattershield, guess headers too....
Whatcha thinking tonight?

Kyle had made a deal with me a long time ago on the headers and we just never got together, I brought them down for him this am but will keep an eye out for another set.

Thanks MIKE....you rock.

Looks great Rambo. :thumbsup: For some reason 80 overbore was more than I was expecting.. IMHO, I would just run the 781's that you have already. Pop new springs on, a baby cam, and go. Rebuilding or buying new heads is just going to add more costs to the swap. The 781's are good flowing heads, I wouldnt worry too much about the lower compression. Nice to run regular and not worry about pinging.

Looks great Rambo. :thumbsup: For some reason 80 overbore was more than I was expecting.. IMHO, I would just run the 781's that you have already. Pop new springs on, a baby cam, and go. Rebuilding or buying new heads is just going to add more costs to the swap. The 781's are good flowing heads, I wouldnt worry too much about the lower compression. Nice to run regular and not worry about pinging.

X2 that thing is going to melt the tires anyways. :yes::yes:

get your self a udkettbo grind. :d


roflol!!! :D :D

I think keeping expenses in check is important....
Get your chamber volume Rambo.

Lets get some real numbers too. Maybe CC the heads if they have been shaved, how far are the pistons really in the bore? Curious what the compression will really come out to..

Damn it! George posted same thing as I was typing.

I think keeping expenses in check is important....

I know, but it was still funny


Get your chamber volume Rambo.

On my to do list... probably a few weeks out though. Wife will have me busy doing house projects during my X-mas/newyears vacation days.

Get your self a UDKETTBO grind. :D


good for at least 12.7s:thumbsup::beers:
Maybe gotago should step up to a UDKETTBO spec cam:p
(OK, his gonna obliterate my Elky pretty soon, let me have some fun, while i can)

soooooooooooooooo, ya got the scattershield, guess headers too....
Whatcha thinking tonight?

anyone else hearing the theme from Jaws?

Looks great Rambo. :thumbsup: For some reason 80 overbore was more than I was expecting.. IMHO, I would just run the 781's that you have already. Pop new springs on, a baby cam, and go. Rebuilding or buying new heads is just going to add more costs to the swap. The 781's are good flowing heads, I wouldnt worry too much about the lower compression. Nice to run regular and not worry about pinging.

X2

I may be interested- would like to hear a few other folks chime in to hear their thoughts.. including value of the 781s vs 390s...


I think you should scrap the whole project and start over. I'll help you out by coming up and getting all that stuff out of the garage for you:D

Everyone's still guessing on your motor and without real numbers you will still go around in circles. Like the others said, CC the heads and get some real numbers on your piston depth and then you'll know what you've got and what you need.

It took me about an hour to do mine with a vet syringe and a piece of plexiglass with some Marvel Mystery Oil.
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp264/gotago396/CCing.jpg
I'm glad I did it because after grinding on the chambers to get the domes to clear I went from 11.5:1 down to 11:1. It didn't take much.

I think you should scrap the whole project and start over. I'll help you out by coming up and getting all that stuff out of the garage for you:D

Everyone's still guessing on your motor and without real numbers you will still go around in circles. Like the others said, CC the heads and get some real numbers on your piston depth and then you'll know what you've got and what you need.

It took me about an hour to do mine with a vet syringe and a piece of plexiglass with some Marvel Mystery Oil.
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp264/gotago396/CCing.jpg
I'm glad I did it because after grinding on the chambers to get the domes to clear I went from 11.5:1 down to 11:1. It didn't take much.

Agreed- I started reading up on how to do it last night. As i said it'll be a few weeks, but this was the whole reason for taking the heads off- to know exactly what i've got.

Pulled the engine home from erics house today- drained the block and pulled the pan for inspection... Prolly the Last photo update for a while:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/DSC00292.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/DSC00295.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/DSC00299.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/DSC00300.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/benstheman1/12-13-09-454%20Engine%20Pull/DSC00301.jpg

4 bolt mains, Cast crank, Thumb Rods,, doesn't look like it in the photo, but thas a rouble roller timing chain and is nice and tight-

Pistons don't seem to have any pn's on the inside that i could see- they all have a 66 or 99 cast inside the skirt.

Wrote down the numbers off the Oil pump to check to see if it might already be a high volume... DM-77 ?

anyway, at least its home and wrapped up now. We oiled up the lifter bores, and put some in the cylinder bores and turned the motor over a few times to make sure they were well oiled. Should be good to sit for a few months now Till i'm ready to make it happen.

Looks good Ben, the only thing I would do if your keeping the oil pump is braze the pickup tube to the pump. It looks like the one that's on there now is not seated all the way onto the pump body?

nice!!! running 4 bolt 454 for $500 :thumbsup:

nice!!! running 4 bolt 454 for $500 :thumbsup:

minus what he sold the attached TH400 for.:thumbsup:

Oil pump is a melling unit, I believe m77 is regular volume. Everything looks nice, I would probably reuse that chain and oil pump. :thumbsup: Surprised to see RTV only in the corners on the pan seal. I like to put a thin bead all the way down.

nice!!! running 4 bolt 454 for $500 :thumbsup:

FREE After sale of the Carb & Transmission! If the Truck exh manifolds sell, I'll have made money by taking it! :eek:

thats awesome Ben! almost makes you feel bad doesn't it? haha

Looks good Ben, the only thing I would do if your keeping the oil pump is braze the pickup tube to the pump. It looks like the one that's on there now is not seated all the way onto the pump body?

Wouldn't the pickup be different for a truck pan vs the chevelle pan?

Pumps are not too much $$, i figured i'd do as Darryl recomended and put a new High Volume/Standard Pressure pump in there

I'd put on (braze) a new pickup to match the pan ya end up with...run it.

I shoulda sent my home brew chamber CC kit up north.
Anyway, get the Turkey Injector at Target. It is 30cc. Some 1/4 or 3/8 plexiglass works great. Seal the chamber edges and possibly the valves (if need be)with some grease.

Can you give me any details on the shim head gaskets you were talking about?

Pn's ? What size are they, will they work with the .080 bore?

Rambo
Mr Gasket #1131s shim gaskets. .018-. 020 4.370 bore
leaves you .060 setback from the bore, .030 per side.
YUP, that is getting a bit close....glad you brought this up now.
Not sure what them minimum set-back is. Pretty sure you are close.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-1131/
I know you do want the fire ring from the gasket set back so it does not get too hot and essentially become a glow plug.
Might have to call Mr Gasket tech line.

late night math not too good. Morning typing not worth a darn either apparently! Edited/Correct info:
4.250 + .080 = 4.330
had typed 2.250 + .080 = 4.330 :sad:
Gasket hole 4.370 - 4.330 = .040" hence .020" for setback clearance.
Again, get some more opinions Rambo.

2.250 + .080 = 4.330

:noway::noway::noway:

late night math not too good.
2.250 + .080 = 4.330


:noway::noway::noway:

oh that darn computer machine mixin up numbers on ol' george.

ok, I went back and edited POST 125.....
4.250 + .080 = 4.330

Sam & I went down to Puyallup this Past Saturday and Picked up the donated headers..

Look to be in great shape, hedman 65002's, 2" primaries 3" collectors, already pre "clearanced" since he had them on his 67 w/ a 4spd :)

I'll get them blasted and hit them with a fresh coat of VHT cast grey and be ready to rock & roll this summer.

Thanks again Pat!
Was nice visiting with you a Syl... Thanks for letting Sam tear apart your living room, he enjoyed it. Hopefully you found all the remote controls & crackers ;)

Hey Ben -
I'll check up in the attic but I think I have a bunch of big block stuff you're welcome to if I still have it. I know I had some fairly new billet valve covers (low profile) and other misc stuff like water pumps. Anyway, there may be a few things there you could use. I'll try to remember to pull the boxes down so when you come over you can see if you want any of it.

;)Can I come over?;)

;)Can I come over?;)

Only if he wants his attic remodeled...................................

Only if he wants his attic remodeled...................................

l:)

posted this in engines...

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303404

Any thoughts... on what the difference in performance would be between running the 98cc 390 heads vs the 119cc 781s?

Is the 60204 too much for a low compression motor?

Like I said in the other thread, I probably wouldnt run the 60204 if under 9.5:1 comp ratio.

Is the 60204 too much for a low compression motor?

From the Lunati catalog regarding the 60204:
Hydraulic; "Hot Street" cam, likes 2800 converter, Hi-Rise type dual plane intake with 850cfm carb, headers, 10:1 compression and 3.73 gears. Likes up to
200HP nitrous.

The 60203:
Hydraulic; The most awesome "268" cam ever produced! Out-powers all others!
This High Performance street cam likes 2400 RPM stall, 800 cfm carb, dual
plane intake and headers. Makes un-equaled power to 6200 RPM with proper
valve springs. If you're looking for a Very Strong cam with great street manners
for your "Crate Motor" this is it! Factory EFI motors need custom chips/tuning.

ok- that answers the cam question, but I'm still fuzzy on the Value of switching heads to get more compression

The first set of numbers that Mark(someone else) posted did not show much difference between the two compression ratios. ~10hp/10lbs

The second numbers the other guy posted were out of whack because his program miscalculated the compression for teh 390's.

So is this what you guys would have expected as well? Somehow i expected to see more of a difference between 8.3 and 9.6 CRs

Is there something wrong with the 781s ben? Stick the 268 voodoo in that baby and hangon.:thumbsup: You could have the fastest car in the group on 87 octane.:beers:

My old 461 with stock heads, a comp magnum 280H, rpm airgap, went 110mph. It was a fun little motor and made plenty of power for the street.:thumbsup:

Is there something wrong with the 781s ben?

No, not at all... Its is just my lack of knowledge showing-

Earlier people were saying I should consider swapping to the Heads George had to bring my compression up.

I just wanted to know if there was a decent enough gain in performance by bumping the compression with the heads to justify a swap- considering that later on, if i get a wad of cash(and there is any left after getting a 12 bolt, and a 4spd) and replace these flattops with some big domed pistons I'd be glad I kept the 781s.

From what i saw on the other thread, there is practically no difference in power, except i'd be running mid grade or premium gas.

No, not at all... Its is just my lack of knowledge showing-

Earlier people were saying I should consider swapping to the Heads George had to bring my compression up.



I'd run the 781's especially since they are rebuilt and you have them already. George just wants you to trade him so he gets the 781's. :yes::yes: :sad: He thinks your a sucker. :D :boxing:

I'd run the 781's especially since they are rebuilt and you have them already. George just wants you to trade him so he gets the 781's.

From my understanding, i will/may need to have the spring pockets machined out to remove the "rotators"? Is that right?

I don't know what that is, but i read it somewhere...

As for george's heads, they still need to be gone trhough and built- honestly i was more interested in Kevins old ready to run 390's that Darryl has.... Especially if mine need machine work before springs can go on them.

Although then again, mine are 1973/74 heads- SHould have hardenend seats in them.. the 390's are from 1966 so won't have hard seats unless someone added them. Tough to run on the street.

Really, i'm just tryin to edumacate myself in the laziest way possible... Getting you guys to answer my dumb questions :thumbsup:

I see, I take that back then George. ;)

I hear where you coming from, I would run whatever is cheap/ready to go. :thumbsup: Its still gonna haul. :yes:

I hear where you coming from, I would run whatever is cheap/ready to go.

Now you are getting it!

i hear where you coming from, i would run whatever is cheap/ready to go. :thumbsup: Its still gonna haul. :yes:

x10

Just jumping in late on this discussion, but a few things to ponder, Ben.

I ran the 60203 in my 454, with stock 781 heads, some Crane single valve springs, with the rotators in. This was what I slapped together before I even knew any better. With a performer intake, and 800 dp, it was good enough to get me a 12.29 on motor, and an 11.65 on a 150 shot, using restrictive fuel line and a weak ignition.

What pistons/CR did you have at that time john?

I have no doubt it will rock and roll... I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around the components and what to expect.

One thing is, since my old motor was a crate engine, i have dyno sheets showing what its performance was- So i'm just kind of interested in how this setup compares. It won't be too hard to out do that motor. But if some choices give easy extra power, like changing heads to bring up the CR, then i'm all over it... But from what i'm reading its sounding like the extra point in compression from the smaller chamber heads won't give me much improvement at all...

your 781s are fresh, engine fresh....and you have the big bore and flattops.
the shim gasket should help. a 60203 will work, it will work a bit better with more CR.
those programs with "how does compression ratio help" varies with the cam specs. Depends on what you start with and where you are going.
rule of thumb, more cam and ya run more compression.
Brian had flattops and small chamber heads with his 461" and the 280 cam. I do not have access to his particulars. Though he advertised 9:1, calculated he probably had 9.25:1 or more. I will do the math this evening. His "9.25:1" or there about is a step up from your 8.25:1 or whatever it was....
regardless, any 454 with a sane perf cam should run good.
Back to work

Brett, Brian, not trying to HOCK my heads....just givin Ben the option.
I run what I have (#063) on 454v1 because that is what I had ready to go.

Actually, I'd pocket port the 781's and put the 60203 in it. It'll boil the hides as is. Although desk top dynos' don't show much difference advancing the cam some more, it would be a nitoicable difference in throttle response and off idle hit.

..

Actually, I'd pocket port the 781's and put the 60203 in it. It'll boil the hides as is. Although desk top dynos' don't show much difference advancing the cam some more, it would be a nitoicable difference in throttle response and off idle hit.

Thanks for replying Doc-

Do you know if i have to have any work done to the springs other than getting the right strength for the cam? Anything to do with removing the rotators or ? (i really don't even know what i'm asking here)

Thanks for replying Doc-

Do you know if i have to have any work done to the springs other than getting the right strength for the cam? Anything to do with removing the rotators or ? (i really don't even know what i'm asking here)

Just run a really strong single spring and just keep the rotators in there. It'll be fine. You can put rotator eliminators in but I wouldn't bother. JMO

What pistons/CR did you have at that time john?..

KB's with a -12cc dome, a fat head gasket, and probably 9-1 cr.

Ben, the rotators were used on truck engines to rotate the valves to help keep them clean on truck engines. If you want to remove them, Federal Mogul and Comp Cams make the rotator eliminator kits that Doc mentioned PNs VS1360S/4779-8. The spacers fit in place of the rotators, no machining required. You can put shims on them if required to get the correct valve spring height.

If it matters any, my CR is calculated out to 11:1 and I can run on pump gas but keep in mind that my cam has quite a bit of duration.

I still need to get some goodies in the mail to you, sorry I'm dragging ass on it, will get them out to you this week.

...I still need to get some goodies in the mail to you, sorry I'm dragging ass on it, will get them out to you this week.

Where have I heard this before...:D

JK, Mark. It was just too good to pass up. :beers:

You can bring my stuff to the All Chevy Drags in Bremerton, if they'll let you on the plane with that stuff. :thumbsup:

Where have I heard this before...:D

JK, Mark. It was just too good to pass up. :beers:

You can bring my stuff to the All Chevy Drags in Bremerton, if they'll let you on the plane with that stuff. :thumbsup:

Watch it or I'll send it all back to you in a box packed with thongs addressed to the "Right Righteous Reverend Johnny E":D Bet your security services will LOVE that;)

Other...
The front suspension on the car is TOAST... 250k 44year old type of toast.
THe ball joints are so worn that when i brake hard the drums shudder.

I have a new PST kit- and about 90% of what i need for the front disk swap- That will happen this winter before the engine upgrade- as i don't want to be trying to do both at the same time.

So thats where i'm at on day 3 :)

When you get to the disc swap I have some pickle forks and a Ball Joint press your more than welcome to.

anychance one of you guys know a PN for valve springs that would work with the 60203?

Putting together my summit order list... ;)

Singles or doubles? I would use what lunati recommends.

Was thinking about it today- the frame side motor mount towers bolts can only be accessed with the lower front control arms off...

Considering that i want to paint and detail my suspension stuff while i'm rebuilding it- and i want to detail & paint my engine bay when it comes out- it doesn't make a lot of sense to pull the front suspension for its redo- then put it back together,

then take it apart again in the summer to do the engine swap...

So maybe the engine will get pulled sooner. Do it while i'm doing the front suspension rebuild, so i can change the frame side motor mounts... Then do my engine bay and front frame detailing work while i get the last peices and mock up the engine & tranny to go back in the car.

Then i'll do the disk brake conversion after its all back on the road, since that is all bolt on stuff..

Singles or doubles? I would use what lunati recommends.

Just run a really strong single spring and just keep the rotators in there. It'll be fine. You can put rotator eliminators in but I wouldn't bother. JMO

Whatever that guy says, i listen :yes:

anychance one of you guys know a PN for valve springs that would work with the 60203?

Putting together my summit order list... ;)

73124, that's the Lunati part number from their catalog

http://www.lunatipower.com/CamSpecCard.aspx?partNumber=60203

73124, that's the Lunati part number from their catalog

http://www.lunatipower.com/

Those are dual springs... darryl was saying single springs. Will i have to do any of that rotator eliminator stuff or what? Sorry, my ignorance is showing bigtime...

Those are dual springs... darryl was saying single springs. Will i have to do any of that rotator eliminator stuff or what? Sorry, my ignorance is showing bigtime...

I think that as long as you install them with the correct height and as long as the springs you use are comparable with what the cam card calls for, you're good. Competition Products probably has springs, retainers, and locks that will work for less money than Lunati. I think the installed height of the spring you use will determine if you need the eliminators as you shouldn't use too many shims to get the correct height.

Darryl, did I explain that right or did I hose it up?

To bad I sold my 60204 and matching single springs. The springs were from competition products also, Doc recommended them. They floated around 6100, which was way past peak power.

Look up Competition Products part number VSA 12-38, I think those are what you need. Of course please run this by Darryl as I could have hosed it up.

Look up Competition Products part number VSA 12-38, I think those are what you need. Of course please run this by Darryl as I MOST LIKELY hosed it up.

Tell the truth homey.:yes:

if you go with a doble spring you will need the rotator eliminators

Look up Competition Products part number VSA 12-38, I think those are what you need. Of course please run this by Darryl as I could have hosed it up.

Still look like double springs... Rather run singles so i don't have to buy the eliminators too..

I'll go search bretts post... maybe it has a PN for what he ran

Damn that thread is hard to find anything specific in it....

Come on Ben.. 10:06 to 11:07, you were only looking for an hour... get back in there and find it!:p

I am running the Comp '911' single springs on mine. No float yet & i've buzzed the 454 to 5500.

Tell the truth homey.:yes:

Truth?!? You can't handle the truth:noway:

I am running the Comp '911' single springs on mine. No float yet & i've buzzed the 454 to 5500.

Thats hardly buzzing, wuss! :rolleyes:

:D

if you go with a doble spring you will need the rotator eliminators

????
is that true for all dual spring set-ups?? :confused:

????
is that true for all dual spring set-ups?? :confused:

No, not if you dont have the rotators.

Thats hardly buzzing, wuss! :rolleyes:

:D

your right 327 boy!
My 400 sb was shifted @ 7200!:hurray:now THATS buxxing! 'specially with a cast crank & shorts rods!:yes:

My 400 sb was shifted @ 7200!:hurray:now THATS buxxing! 'specially with a cast crank & shorts rods!:yes:

:boring::boring: I do that just backing out of the trailer:D

????
is that true for all dual spring set-ups?? :confused:

If the heads have the stock rotators, they will only accept single springs so require the eliminators that are configured for doubles.

I'm gonna bring the heads to the bbq and let you guys look at the spring/retainer/rotator setup, tell me what all i need.

I am running the Comp '911' single springs on mine. No float yet & i've buzzed the 454 to 5500.

I ran the same springs on my 461.:beers:

is the thing on the right a stock rotator? the inner spring fit on it fine...

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll301/bwhyte1972/67%20chev%20truck/valvespringstackup.jpg

Rambo

Ordered some shim gaskets...and a set for you.
Probably enough time between now and your build for me to locate and inventory spare BBC gaskets fer ya.

Rambo

Ordered some shim gaskets...and a set for you.
Probably enough time between now and your build for me to locate and inventory spare BBC gaskets fer ya.

? keep me in the loop on what you are sourcing for me... I was getting my summit wish list together

Refresh your memory for ya, got it.

170 some odd posts back I said if you pull your heads, I would spring for some shim gaskets fer ya. I also said that you were welcome to such spare BBC gaskets as I have lying around. Does this sound familiar? Pretty sure I have intake, pan, distributor, maybe even a waterneck gasket. The only one I am not sure on is a new timing cover gasket.
I got a lotta 'help' a year plus ago on the Super Budget 454. Now paying it forward to another team member.

Can't tell by the picture as it's blurry but is it an actual inner round spring or just the flat vibration dampner spring. If it's just the flat vibration dampning spring it doesn't count as a double, still considered a single.

is the thing on the right a stock rotator? the inner spring fit on it fine...

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll301/bwhyte1972/67%20chev%20truck/valvespringstackup.jpg

Refresh your memory for ya, got it.

170 some odd posts back I said if you pull your heads, I would spring for some shim gaskets fer ya. I also said that you were welcome to such spare BBC gaskets as I have lying around. Does this sound familiar? Pretty sure I have intake, pan, distributor, maybe even a waterneck gasket. The only one I am not sure on is a new timing cover gasket.
I got a lotta 'help' a year plus ago on the Super Budget 454. Now paying it forward to another team member.

wow man... all you guys are humbling me with all the donations....
I'm going to have to ramp up some of my own skills so i can pay some of this back somehow.

George, when you get the materials for your seat rebuild, I'll make you a rediculous deal on my labor for their R&R. :thumbsup:

I'm also planning on buying & making some of the specialized tools to do the bushing R&R on front & rear contol arms for my own rebuild this spring- and will be available to help others if they need to do the same work.

I'm also planning on buying & making some of the specialized tools to do the bushing R&R on front & rear contol arms for my own rebuild this spring- and will be available to help others if they need to do the same work.

I used Darryl's air hammer to get them out, then a big hammer to put them back in. I put a spacer(socket) in between to keep the channel from collapsing when I installed them.

I used Darryl's air hammer to get them out, then a big hammer to put them back in. I put a spacer(socket) in between to keep the channel from collapsing when I installed them.

My method is a little more scientific than that... but whatever works for ya, right :)

The mystic 800DP'r will come to the track with me this year for anyone wanting to try one. I'll be putting a 830 HP back on the chevelle with the next power plant

Can't tell by the picture as it's blurry but is it an actual inner round spring or just the flat vibration dampner spring. If it's just the flat vibration dampning spring it doesn't count as a double, still considered a single.

Looks to me like a dual with a dampner in there as well.:confused:

Looks to me like a dual with a dampner in there as well.:confused:
maybe im high. i couldve sworn they were duals...

wow ok false alarm :sad: