I see lot of questions and discussions on surge tanks and other ways to help prevent fuel pickup problems.

Just curious as to why more people don't seem interested into just adding small sump to a stock tank. I am talking about welding a Competition Engineering type piece on the bottom of a NEW stock style tank (don't want to be welding on a used tank for sure). If you just put some small round holes to feed into the sump, you get a pretty good way to hold/baffle fuel. Then run an inline pump.

I fully realize an intank pump with a proper module/baffling is the ideal way to go, but I certainly wouldn't want to pay $800++ and I'm waiting to see more feedback on the Spectra tanks before I look there more.

Just curious. Do people not want that stuff hanging down?

I had a few thoughts on that...

1. I did not want stuff hanging down.
2. I wanted a quiet operation. There is good noise and bad noise. Fuel pumps are definitely in my bad noise column.
3. I did not really believe that type of sump would provide a full solution. There were always some conditions where bad things would happen. Those conditions did not seem that hard to see in normal operation.
4. If the problem has been solved by the OEMs it is probably worth considering. After all they have invested a lot more time, money, and effort into investigating and testing solutions than I ever will ;)

I did not believe in any way shape or form in paying $800 for a tank setup either.

I'm looking at a similar deal, but since I road race, I'll be putting the CE-style sump at the bottom/front of the tank rather than the bottom/rear. While I've got the hole cut to install the sump, I'll weld in some trap doors (like in an oil pan) to keep a given amount of fuel close to the pickup location in the sump. If I run a return line, it'll go to the filler neck fitting (on the side of the tank in my wagon) to eliminate any potential foaming issues.

I can't foresee any issues with this design, even under hard acceleration (hey- just because I love to turn corners doesn't mean I won't ever take a trip down the quarter-mile again) and since wagons have more room between the gas tank and rear axle, I'll be able to stash my filter/pump setup out of sight.

The natural angle of the stock tank is nose down, so I think this will work just fine.

I've had a sump on my stock tank with an inline filter and mechanical pump for over 10 years with no problems.
I would suggest you use a hardline for a majority of the distance to the front however...

looks like:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=299&pictureid=2779

Just curious. Do people not want that stuff hanging down?

yep... I wanted it somewhat hidden and retain some stock stockish appearance. :)

I didn't like the idea of someone being able to grab a pair pliers and drain my tank in a few seconds.

I'm looking at a similar deal, but since I road race, I'll be putting the CE-style sump at the bottom/front of the tank rather than the bottom/rear. While I've got the hole cut to install the sump, I'll weld in some trap doors (like in an oil pan) to keep a given amount of fuel close to the pickup location in the sump. If I run a return line, it'll go to the filler neck fitting (on the side of the tank in my wagon) to eliminate any potential foaming issues.

I can't foresee any issues with this design, even under hard acceleration (hey- just because I love to turn corners doesn't mean I won't ever take a trip down the quarter-mile again) and since wagons have more room between the gas tank and rear axle, I'll be able to stash my filter/pump setup out of sight. ...
Now if this was a '68-72 wagon your job would be a LOT easier. The side tanks are almost perfect for EFI without any kind of surge or baffles required for the twisty stuff.

Hmmm... maybe I should have made up a pair of side tanks for my Elky... :beers:

I see lot of questions and discussions on surge tanks and other ways to help prevent fuel pickup problems.

Just curious as to why more people don't seem interested into just adding small sump to a stock tank. I am talking about welding a Competition Engineering type piece on the bottom of a NEW stock style tank (don't want to be welding on a used tank for sure). If you just put some small round holes to feed into the sump, you get a pretty good way to hold/baffle fuel. Then run an inline pump.

I fully realize an intank pump with a proper module/baffling is the ideal way to go, but I certainly wouldn't want to pay $800++ and I'm waiting to see more feedback on the Spectra tanks before I look there more.

Just curious. Do people not want that stuff hanging down?

'cause not everyone is a drag racer, some guys turn corners............ ;) I don't think the sump deal works particularly well on a road course where the fuel is going side to side. Well, put it this way, the couple I've seen still had issues when the tank was under 1/2 tank at the road course.

Jody

'cause not everyone is a drag racer, some guys turn corners............ ;) I don't think the sump deal works particularly well on a road course where the fuel is going side to side. Well, put it this way, the couple I've seen still had issues when the tank was under 1/2 tank at the road course.

Jody

Thanks Jody, I don't have personal experience there myself and was wondering how they'd do. I'll take it they aren't a solution for that.

Be kind though! I used to autocross, some road racing, and lots of oval track racing! I just go straight because it's all I can afford. :) :) Turning is much more fun! In fact i used to autocross my Nova. Wasn't pretty but everyone wanted a ride!

I run exactly what you are asking Doug. I bought a replacement tank from Spectra, added a CE sump wedge and had it welded onto my tank. I have the return fed back into a bung that was welded onto the filler neck. I run a Walbro inline pump which I DO NOT HEAR when the car is running, even back near it.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/Bowtie-Bry/carpics/DSC03276.jpg

Is there anyone out there who has installed EFI and not sumped the tank, and had no problems. I did an LT1 transplant, and just hooked up to the stock pickup and return lines. So far, I've had no problems, and maintain 55 pounds of pressure. I haven't experienced a whole bunch of lateral G-force however. What is the critical level of fuel that starts the problem? I've been pretty low, around 1/4 tank and have had no hick-ups.

In the past I used a low pressure (Carter black) lift pump that fed into a half gallon swirl pot that was mounted in the trunk. That fed the EFI pumps. Kept everything out of sight, and never a chance of having surge problems.

I too have added a CE sump to my tank. I didn't have the foresight to just use a few holes in the bottom to make it like a baffle. Even with this setup, it still seems lacking, although improved. Starvation under braking can still be an issue, as well as going around turns with a lesser amount of fuel in the tank. I added the sump because it was easier than trying to engineer an in-tank setup.

Once I get the car back on the road, if it still bothers me, I'm going to make a surge tank, fed by my old mechanical pump.

I definitely dont like the look of the sump. I've also seen references to their questionable legality on a street car. I have no idea if that's really the case, but I'd hate to have to argue with a cop and/or judge about it.

I added the sump to my existing tank. I just didn't want to throw another $180 at a solution that I wasn't completely sure about for a brand new tank. After talking to a local welding shop about installing it, I removed the tank from the car, and thoroughly rinsed it out with water from the hose. Completely filled the tank and continued to let the hose run for a while longer. Emptied it out, and let it air dry. I believe they might've had a hose pumping exhaust gas into the tank while they welded to displace as much oxygen as possible. Like I said, I talked to them about it before I did anything. They charged me $75 to weld it in. I wish I had thought about just having them drill a few holes to feed the sump instead of cutting the bottom open.

-Dave

Just wanted to bring this thread back as I'm still thinking about a small surge tank and just wanted to see if my math is adding up.

Constants: 42 lb/hr injectors, Gasoline is .026 lb/in^3 (lbs per cubic-inch, source: Wikipedia)

42 lb/hr * 8 injectors = 336 lb/hr max fuel flow
336 / 60 = 5.6 lb / minute
5.6 lb/min @ 85% duty cycle = 4.76 lb / min (WOT)
4.76 lb/min / 60 = .079 lb/sec fuel flow through all 8 injectors @ 85% duty cycle

So, if I make a small cylinder for a surge tank that has a 3" diameter and 3.5" tall
(pi)(r^2)(h) = Volume
3.14159 (1.5^2)(3.5) = 18.96 in^3 (cubic inches.)

18.96 * .026 lb / in^3 = .49 lbs of fuel. This is how much fuel my surge tank holds.

With the engine using .079 lb/sec fuel, .49 lb / .079 lb/sec = 6.2 seconds of fuel at WOT.

So, at WOT, I can run for 6.2 seconds without the surge tank being re-filled at all. Did I miss anything obvious in the math?

-Dave

I was considering replacing the high pressure pump in my Spectra tank with a low volume low pressure pump to feed a surge tank and a frame rail mounted fuel pump. I was thinking this way because a low pressure pump primes much easier.

Now THIS gentlemen is the mark of a MegaSquirt user: :yes:
Just wanted to bring this thread back as I'm still thinking about a small surge tank and just wanted to see if my math is adding up.

Constants: 42 lb/hr injectors, Gasoline is .026 lb/in^3 (lbs per cubic-inch, source: Wikipedia)

42 lb/hr * 8 injectors = 336 lb/hr max fuel flow
336 / 60 = 5.6 lb / minute
5.6 lb/min @ 85% duty cycle = 4.76 lb / min (WOT)
4.76 lb/min / 60 = .079 lb/sec fuel flow through all 8 injectors @ 85% duty cycle

So, if I make a small cylinder for a surge tank that has a 3" diameter and 3.5" tall
(pi)(r^2)(h) = Volume
3.14159 (1.5^2)(3.5) = 18.96 in^3 (cubic inches.)

18.96 * .026 lb / in^3 = .49 lbs of fuel. This is how much fuel my surge tank holds.

With the engine using .079 lb/sec fuel, .49 lb / .079 lb/sec = 6.2 seconds of fuel at WOT.

So, at WOT, I can run for 6.2 seconds without the surge tank being re-filled at all. Did I miss anything obvious in the math?

-Dave

Nope that is a pretty text book calculation :thumbsup:

The limit to the calculation is perspective and conditions. This is at not just WOT but at max demand, which puts it around the HP peak. We do not spend too much operating that far out into the corner of the box. Take a look at your injector pulse width map and see how it scales for different operating conditions. Then factor that into the equation.

Note also that even at your max fuel you still cover an 1/8 mile :D It does not seem like on paper but 6 seconds is a fair amount of driving time/distance when you think about that way. At 60 MPH that is 1/10th of a mile, an odometer readable distance.

Steve, thanks for the 'mark of a megasquirt user' comment :-)

Regarding perspective and conditions, you're right, 6-seconds is approaching 1/8 mile times. I was trying to plan for a worst-case situation. All in all, I'd prefer something that held 12-seconds worth of fuel, but I don't think I want something quite that size. On the other hand, the float bowls on a carb are relatively small

So if my design is relatively sound, what about having a 1-2psi check-valve on the return line back to the tank, which should keep the surge tank at 1-2psi, thus slightly force-feeding the high-pressure pump. Or am I over-thinking this?

-Dave

That was meant totally respectfully. :D I should probably explain my thoughts so it cannot be mis-construed... I tend to see a lot of empirical real data in MegaSquirt discussions. This system was built to foster education about automotive EFI applications and achieves that goal very well. This is the absolute best "learner" (you learn how it works to make it work) system on the market, period. Personally I just wish their code did not look like such cr*p (in their defense I understand that it was hacked together over a period of years by a few different folks, which usually results in difficult to understand code).

Your surge tank size of 3" diameter by 3.5" tall was pretty small. I think, based on Jason and my experience, you can get close to 4" through a tank sender hole setup. And I believe the stock tanks are close to 7" tall at that point. If I round down a bit to 3.5" diameter and 6" height I get almost 60 CI of tank displacement with an in-tank surge tank.

I would NOT try and raise the pressure on the return line as this can feedback into a raised rail pressure and garf up your fueling :(

Not to mention that, as a liquid, gasoline should generally be considered a non-compressible substance. So raising the pressure has no affect on volume.

I don't think you are over thinking this at all, I think most hot rod EFI setups are under-thunk ;)

Yes, the surge tank is small, but that's part of my goal. I'm trying to come up with a compact solution that I can mount in the engine compartment, very near the mechanical fuel pump. It keeps the plumbing short & simple, the pump is easily accessible, but still in a reasonably out-of-the-way, well-protected location. I'm trying to avoid further changes to the fuel tank, plus the design becomes easily duplicated with little effort for any other car.

I've been running my car with EFI for a few years now, so I've become aware of just how crucial a good fuel system is. I've also burned up at least 1 pump with starvation issues.

Thanks for the tip about return fuel pressure messing up the rail pressure. Hadn't considered that.

So, here's what I've got so far. A buddy had a piece of 3" exhaust pipe that was just about the right size, welded a top on it, and has attached a cup section on the bottom. Just duct-taped at the moment, but that's because I'm just sizing everything up. I'll figure out some sort of mounting plate that can attach to the frame there.

The pump in the pics is an MSD-2225. My actual pump is a Holley 12-920, which I think it slightly smaller diameter but slightly longer. Shouldn't be enough difference to really matter.

I need to know what kind of fitting it is for the inlet. The supplied fitting is a straight barb. I'd really prefer a 90* fitting. MSD tech support told me that the fitting isn't supposed to be removed. Oh well, it came off cleanly. :) But it's a 5/8-something. What is it called? That barb has that o-ring inside. I assume I can probably find what I'm looking for from Grainger? The Holley seems to have standard threads at inlet and outlet.

-Dave

that brass barb fitting with the o-ring in it doesn't look like anything standard to me. Does it come with the pump in the pic? inlet side maybe?

Yes, it is in the inlet side, and yes it comes with the pump. Didn't look like anything I recognized either. Seems odd that they would use something propietary or custom on a low-end pump like that.

Just throwing this out there, maybe this is just not gonna fix the real issue. If you were to take a metal tank, and put a small bleed-off hole up top that was sized considerable smaller than the intake and output lines to allow bubbles to escape. This line could be routed back to the return line via a "T", or just run a 3rd line to the tank. The smaller line shouldnt really pressurize the return line as there is an opening back at the tank. Could always use a check valve if needed.

Something like this - think it would work?

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/VGIORDANO_2007/IMG_2410-1.jpg?t=1276218996

Well without the picture... I am shooting in the dark here. :D

But I think the issue is that A) if the pump sucks air it must self-prime (and quickly) and B) while the pump pumps air it is NOT making pressure. So even if you invent a way to seperate air bubbles from the fuel stream you still have not solved the pressure problem.

Steve I'm currently running a Mallory fuel pump for my 502, and its mounted below the tank. Probably will run the same type of pump for EFI. When the tank was REAL low, pressure fluctuated till I got some more gas in there. Mine primes real easy, b/c gas is just flows down hill to it. I would think as long as we can divise a system to handle this air during low fuel tank conditions, I think we would be ok? I think a major issue is just pumping bubbles to the injectors - that cant be good.

No actually the issue is maintaining pressure to the injectors. Fuel flow is proportional to pressure difference across the injector. This is why most systems run with a manifold pressure referenced pressure regulator. It will actually vary the actual rail pressure up and down with manifold pressure. So if you start sucking bubbles fuel pressure will drop and you will run lean. Not a good thing :noway:

If you have seen your fuel pressure vary then you KNOW there is a problem. You get away with this up to a point with a carb because the float bowls serve as mini surge tanks.

Also if you are running an OEM style fuel pickup it does not matter that your pump is "downhill". You are still lifting fuel up over the top of the tank. So the pump must have a lift capability equal to the height of the tank. Rub here is that vane pumps do not suck air for schnizzel and lift not. Once primed with fuel they work great and have some suck to them. I do not know definitively what the inner workings of your Mallory pump are but it sounds like it does indeed have some lift/suck when pumping air.

My Mallory is the Gerotor type. Actually self primes real good.

At least were not sucking bubble ALL the time, mostly during low tank condition...probably 1/4 or less. I run mine very low all the time, no running issues yet, but its a carb. Hopefully a solution will surface for this (that's not expensive).

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but wanted to post some new info I found, in case anyone actually runs a surge tank search..

I've been looking for something like this for a while now. I was even trying to make my own, but using an in-tank style pump. It's a surge tank with a built-in high-pressure pump. http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-injection-solutions-fuel-pumps-fully-enclosed-fp34-044-fuel-surge-tank-p-21527.html I didn't know you could submerse an in-line pump like that.

And for those looking to maybe use an external pump, I found this on ebay from seller cxlightning :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Universal-Aluminum-Fuel-Surge-Tank-Honda-Miata-RX7-RX8-/350444626651?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item519820a2db

At $53+sh, sure seems like a reasonable price for something with all AN fittings already on it.

I have no affililations with either of these, just thought they were interesting solutions.

-Dave

After examining all the fuel delivery options, including surge tanks, $1000.00-1500.00+ EFI tanks that may/may not be 100% effective, I went with the forward mount sump and external Walbro 255 pump. Now, rather than cut a hole in the tank exactly the size of the sump, I only cut a 1.5"x1.5" hole in the tank. This way, the sump creates a "pocket" of fuel that remains full even down to very low fuel levels. Pump is mounted low, and I could probably get it even lower - right next to the sump. Ran it down to almost empty, and everything seemed to work great. This method is cheap, and pump is serviceable from the outside. And its not really visible. I just couldnt bring myself to run a 2nd pump for the surge deal, and cant really afford the EFI tanks. I would of went with Steve's fuel module setup, but at 650HP at the time, wasnt sure if that was enough pump. I fully realize that there are much sexier solutions, but for what I do, the sump seemed to make the most sense.

Interestingly, looking at all my datalogs, I had MAJOR fuel pressure issues with just the factory tank and an apprx 3/4 fuel level. I thought if I kept the fuel level high enough, everything would be OK. Maybe so on the street driving casually, but at the track and gear changes, fuel slosh/areation was so bad that my fuel pressure on some runs dipped down to 8psi - on almost ALL of the ~30 runs I made. This was with 3/4 of tank+. Cant believe the car ran as good as it did! So, unless your just out cruising, some thought really needs to be given to fuel delivery when running EFI. I chose cheap - as usual :D

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/VGIORDANO_2007/IMG_3139.jpg

Hey Vince, I've had similar experiences. I installed a traditional rear sump on my tank and have the fuel pump mounted in the frame rail right next to the tank. I did this 3-4 years ago and I don't remember if the shop cut the whole opening for the sump or just a couple holes, but I suspect they cut the whole thing. I'm not happy with the way it turned out. I believe I have damaged my current pump as well. It seems fine at lower loads, but not at WOT, which I've had happen to two other pumps that have sucked air. It was also whisper quiet when new, and isn't now.

My goal was to use a mechanical pump to feed the surge tank. They have no issues with sucking an air bubble, recover quickly if the pickup does get uncovered, etc, works fine with a stock tank and sending unit, etc. Last but not at least, I have a good working Holley pump. I also have a brand-new in-tank style pump, I just need a canister of sorts to mount it in. I don't think I'd want a 2-pump surge tank solution with 2 electric pumps, though.

-Dave

BTW, how are you logging fuel pressure?

-Dave

The new Holley efi systems can easily log a number of inputs at one time.

What sensor is providing the signal? Anyone got a part number?

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but wanted to post some new info I found, in case anyone actually runs a surge tank search..

I've been looking for something like this for a while now. I was even trying to make my own, but using an in-tank style pump. It's a surge tank with a built-in high-pressure pump. http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-injection-solutions-fuel-pumps-fully-enclosed-fp34-044-fuel-surge-tank-p-21527.html I didn't know you could submerse an in-line pump like that.

And for those looking to maybe use an external pump, I found this on ebay from seller cxlightning :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Universal-Aluminum-Fuel-Surge-Tank-Honda-Miata-RX7-RX8-/350444626651?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item519820a2db

At $53+sh, sure seems like a reasonable price for something with all AN fittings already on it.

I have no affililations with either of these, just thought they were interesting solutions.

-Dave

Dave

I'm trying to find my solution for my EFI upgrade. Have you made any decisions yet? I also want to use a "stock" tank (in my case a new spectra).

Right now I'm running an external electric carter feeding my carb. I might just use that to feed the FP34 surge tank/044 pump you listed above. So far it looks like the most trustworthy solution using stock tank. I emailed 034 motorsports for their input. Hopefully I hear back soon.. need to get something figured out soon!

good question about the sensor. anybody know ?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-554-102/

It's good for up to 100-psi. 554-103 & 554-104 are good for 200/1600 psi, respectively.

Geoff: I'm switching back to a carb for the rest of this season for a variety of reasons that I won't bother with here. I'll probably re-install the EFI in the spring, when I will likely use a surge tank with an internal high-pressure pump, and probably something that I make myself, as I already have a pump to use and a design in my mind. I also found a recent thread about using a Buick GN fuel tank, that it's almost a bolt-in except for the filler neck, which seemed easy enough to modify.

-Dave

After examining all the fuel delivery options, including surge tanks, $1000.00-1500.00+ EFI tanks that may/may not be 100% effective, I went with the forward mount sump and external Walbro 255 pump. Now, rather than cut a hole in the tank exactly the size of the sump, I only cut a 1.5"x1.5" hole in the tank. This way, the sump creates a "pocket" of fuel that remains full even down to very low fuel levels. Pump is mounted low, and I could probably get it even lower - right next to the sump. Ran it down to almost empty, and everything seemed to work great. This method is cheap, and pump is serviceable from the outside. And its not really visible. I just couldnt bring myself to run a 2nd pump for the surge deal, and cant really afford the EFI tanks. I would of went with Steve's fuel module setup, but at 650HP at the time, wasnt sure if that was enough pump. I fully realize that there are much sexier solutions, but for what I do, the sump seemed to make the most sense.

Interestingly, looking at all my datalogs, I had MAJOR fuel pressure issues with just the factory tank and an apprx 3/4 fuel level. I thought if I kept the fuel level high enough, everything would be OK. Maybe so on the street driving casually, but at the track and gear changes, fuel slosh/areation was so bad that my fuel pressure on some runs dipped down to 8psi - on almost ALL of the ~30 runs I made. This was with 3/4 of tank+. Cant believe the car ran as good as it did! So, unless your just out cruising, some thought really needs to be given to fuel delivery when running EFI. I chose cheap - as usual :D

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/VGIORDANO_2007/IMG_3139.jpg


Bringing this thread back to life since it answers some of my questions already.

I have a ZZ502 upgraded cam (lunati 60623 i believe it is) Pro-Systems 1000HP carb. I should be in the area of 575+ HP and 600+tq. Now I plan on installing a sump on my new stock tank w/ external electric pump. My first question is this; As you can see in this picture he mounted his sump kit with the AN fittings facing front of car installed towards front of the tank (deeper end). Ive also seen where the fittings are mounted facing the rear of the car with the sump mounted towards the rear of the tank. Im confused by this. The rake of the car slopes towards the front. So to me it would make more sense to mount it the way it is in this picture. So whats the correct way?

Also should i only cut a 1.5" x 1.5" hole only and weld the sump over it? This will be 95% street dont know if ill ever do track time. But a freind of mine is begging me to try out the road course stuff. (Where they set up cones and they time you I think its road course??)

Lastly it being a galv tank can I mig weld this? Or does this need to be tigged?

Thnx. Frank

*UPDATE** OOPS didnt know this was in EFI section sorry, just did a searcha nd then asked my question. Thnx again

Bringing this thread back to life since it answers some of my questions already.

I have a ZZ502 upgraded cam (lunati 60623 i believe it is) Pro-Systems 1000HP carb. I should be in the area of 575+ HP and 600+tq. Now I plan on installing a sump on my new stock tank w/ external electric pump. My first question is this; As you can see in this picture he mounted his sump kit with the AN fittings facing front of car installed towards front of the tank (deeper end). Ive also seen where the fittings are mounted facing the rear of the car with the sump mounted towards the rear of the tank. Im confused by this. The rake of the car slopes towards the front. So to me it would make more sense to mount it the way it is in this picture. So whats the correct way?

Also should i only cut a 1.5" x 1.5" hole only and weld the sump over it? This will be 95% street dont know if ill ever do track time. But a freind of mine is begging me to try out the road course stuff. (Where they set up cones and they time you I think its road course??)

Lastly it being a galv tank can I mig weld this? Or does this need to be tigged?

Thnx. Frank

*UPDATE** OOPS didnt know this was in EFI section sorry, just did a searcha nd then asked my question. Thnx again

Frank, with a carb, you dont really need a sump. Your carb already has 2 air-purging devises - the float bowls ;). Lotta guys here with real fast cars running un-sumped tanks and its a complete non-issue.

I would just run the elec pump of your choice, tied in to the 3/8 factory pick-up, and go ahead and run a return line somewhere. I like the Mallory 140 pump with a return reg - just a proven, quiet pump that never gave me an issue.

Here's what I did for a return, but there's many ways to do it.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/VGIORDANO_2007/IMG_1611.jpg

As far as welding, I paid a butcher to weld my sump on. I dont really know the ins/outs of welding, but I should of done it myself.

Let me know if you want pics of the sump, I can get under the car and get them

Well on Crazy Daveys advice and I do trust him he said all I would need is the mallory 110 for what im running. (it was basically the same engine set-up/fuel system he ran at one time, so I know it will work) I dont think he had a sump in though. He used the stock sending unit as well.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAA-4110/

So there is no regulator it is factory set so I have no return line. But there is a vent in the passenger side rear I believe?? Or is the passenger side front? I think its the opposite of the filler neck. So that would mean passenger side rear of the tank. Just plan on sticking a rubber hose and a small lil check valve on it and coiling it somonewhat on top of the tank or mounting it to the floor of the trunk somehow. Not sure yet.

I know I dont really need this set-up, but it would sure make things nice and tiddy with the lines to my filter/pump. I plan on using Summit special hose and barb where they just slip on and you cant pull them off. So I guess if I ever did decide to do some road course stuff I wouldnt ever have to worry about the fuel sloshing around right? Or wont I have to worry about that anyway with a carb?

So if your saying i really dont need this what did you do just attatch the hose with a clamp to the send unit and plug the return? Also I wouldnt have any problems with the pump drawing the fuel up and out of the tank to right behind the passenger side rear wheel on the frame?

Also then your saying ill also be fine with 3/8 or 6AN i believe it is all the way to pre-filter/pump then to pre-filter/carb?

WAs gonna run 1/2 or 8AN all the way. But if its over-kill heck im all for saving some loot.

Answered in bold.

Well on Crazy Daveys advice and I do trust him he said all I would need is the mallory 110 for what im running. (it was basically the same engine set-up/fuel system he ran at one time, so I know it will work) I dont think he had a sump in though. He used the stock sending unit as well.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAA-4110/

So there is no regulator it is factory set so I have no return line. But there is a vent in the passenger side rear I believe?? Or is the passenger side front? I think its the opposite of the filler neck. So that would mean passenger side rear of the tank. Just plan on sticking a rubber hose and a small lil check valve on it and coiling it somonewhat on top of the tank or mounting it to the floor of the trunk somehow. Not sure yet.

I know I dont really need this set-up, but it would sure make things nice and tiddy with the lines to my filter/pump. I plan on using Summit special hose and barb where they just slip on and you cant pull them off. So I guess if I ever did decide to do some road course stuff I wouldnt ever have to worry about the fuel sloshing around right? Or wont I have to worry about that anyway with a carb?

With a carb you dont really have to worry about slosh....

So if your saying i really dont need this what did you do just attatch the hose with a clamp to the send unit and plug the return? Also I wouldnt have any problems with the pump drawing the fuel up and out of the tank to right behind the passenger side rear wheel on the frame?

More than one way to do this. I used 3/8 barbs with a NPT coupling to -6 or -8 fittings to make the connections. I ran all -8 originally, but kept the 3/8 pick-up cause I was too cheap to get the 1/2 pick-up, and I didnt think I needed it anyway based on other's experience here. So I left the stock pick-up in place until I got proof I needed it - never got the proof and saved me 200.00. My pump was mounted on the frame rail in front of the pass side wheel wheel, sorta under the back seat. It was lower than the fuel tank, and the pump was gravity fed - big time. I couldnt take the pump off w/o fuel gushing out of control - had to pinch the line off.

Also then your saying ill also be fine with 3/8 or 6AN i believe it is all the way to pre-filter/pump then to pre-filter/carb?

I think you'll be fine with 3/8 or -6 all the way.

WAs gonna run 1/2 or 8AN all the way. But if its over-kill heck im all for saving some loot.

If you have to buy line, I guess you might as well buy -8. The pushlock stuff your thinking about is huge. The OD of the -8 line is 3/4". They take up alot of space.

Thnx Vinny you just did save me some money!! Be it not alot but its 65 bucks I believe for the weld in sump. Ill use that money towards the new air cleaner I want.

From where my pump is mounted it is definately below the sending unit. Im wondering if I shouldnt move the location of the pump to where your talking about. Just hate to make more holes in my frame. Thats the location alot of guys told me they mounted thiers. In any event its lower then the sending unit. I was just worried about the pump sucking it up and out the sending unit, once it gets there its all down hill. The bad part is the upstream side of the filter will be towards the rea of the car so ill have to bend it around the frame there. Was thinking about 2- 90* elbows and a union to make the sharp turn it needs to go through the frame and enter the filter etc.

Well thnx for the info. Ill run the 6AN sounds like ill be fine. By the way any worries about something getting kicked up and cutting that quick lock stuff? It seems plenty durable.