I'm not sure if there has been much discussion on this company, but I ran across an ad that led me to their website.

http://www.mpbrakes.com/dr1700k.htm

Claims that their heavy duty rear drums (police option)are as good as rear discs, and simpler to convert.

Any opinions?

I'm thinking about getting them when I can scrounge the cash. I don't know if they are as good as discs but I think rear discs are overkill and don't really increase your braking ability that much. Your front brakes will do most of the braking. I would like to hear some opinions on them myself.

Guys... save yourself some cash and do it yourself! These 'special' rear drums are not really that special... you can find lots of them in the junk yards. Just look for a 76 or 77 A-body car like a Malibu or more commonly, a Monte Carlo and snatch the rear backing plaets... they will be the 11" drums. Then simply rebuild or replace the cylinders, get a new spring kit, buy whatever shoes (ask for the police edition if you want the kelvar kind, but good regular ones will do!) and get the drums. I did this on my '70 Nova and it worked great! Plus, I did everything including new drums (get the 11" by 3 /12" version), new shoes, new springs kit and rebuilt the cylinders for under $100! The backing plates shouldn't cost more than like $5 at a junk yard. I see them all the time around here, so Iknow they are out there. Best thing is you can use the same MC as you already had! Just make sure your front brakes are in good shape so you don't go locking up the rears first!

Best of luck,
Bill C.

What do you recommend for the front brakes? I have drums all around. Would it be sufficient to replace the shoes and call it a day? Could I use kevlar shoes?

Originally posted by BC:
Guys... save yourself some cash and do it yourself! These 'special' rear drums are not really that special... you can find lots of them in the junk yards. Ditto on what Bill said. I can find these all day long in the 'yards around here. Save yourself some serious $$$ to put else where in your car and grab them at the 'yard.

Joe

For the fronts, I'd stick with the stock disk brakes which you can find either in the junk yards, on ebay, or buy a kit. You can upgrade to larger rotors if you want, but unless you are getting into road racing and such, the stocks do all right.

Good luck,
Bill C.

Imagine that, you mention Poor Man's anything and Joe jumps into the mix! :D

I have also used the 11" drums before and you should be able to find them pretty easily. As far as front brake I would suggest upgradeing them before you go larger on the rear. You don't want to have more braking power in the rear than the front. If the rears lock up first the backend of the car can easily come around on you. (Have you ever hit the parking brake before on ice? You will slide all over.)

There are plenty of front disc options out there, either stock discs, disc kits, CBB conversions (see my webpage for my copy of BC's CBB setup) or even Baer or aftermarket kits.

Or if you are really on a budget and you find your current to be close you can alway just rebuild your 4 wheel drums.

Good Luck.

Originally posted by airrj:
Imagine that, you mention Poor Man's anything and Joe jumps into the mix! :D

Just call me 'Joe Dirt' or 'Junkyard Joe' :D

Joe

In my estimation, I think the main advantage of rear disc brakes is the maintenance; there practically is none. Drum brakes will need periodic adjustment, yes, even though they are supposed to be self adjusting. Disc brakes will not lose their pedal height over time like drum brakes sometimes can.

Actually Randy, I find the opposite to be true. I never have to adjust the rear drums on any of my cars as the adjusters seem to do their job just fine. However, I do need to adjust the rear disks periodically when I can feel the pedal height getting low. It's not too difficult, a few full extensions of the ebrake pedal and it's all better, but still has to be done. I suppose if you used your ebrake regularly like you are supposed to, then it wouldn't be an issue. :D

Bill C.

They're supposed to self adjust when the brakes are applied as the car is being driven in reverse. Some seem to work fine, others don't.

How in the world can disc pads get out of adjustment? The piston pushes out of the caliper as the pad wears, thus always maintaining the same minimum clearance between the pad and rotor. Does the E-brake on rear disc setups interfere with this?

Yes Randy, the ebrake mechanism on the rear disks is actually a rachet mechanism that the piston intself slides in and out on. Therefore, the whole assembly slides in and out the same distance on every push of the brake pedal. When the pads wear, the piston moves out, but doesn't engage the rotor with much force and braking suffers. By applying the ebrake, the racheting mechanism will actually push the piston out manually until it has taken up the 'slack' and so the piston will now start out closer to the rotor and provide good braking force.

That is a VERY brief summary of the rear disk ebrake... there is much more to it than that but you get the idea, hopefully!

I have discovered several other 'issues' with the GM rear disks brakes that make them more of a PITA and is why I would recommend the use of 454's pinion-mounted ebrake and then just using the 'regular' disk calipers on the rears. Then there would be no adjustment worrys and work much better and more consistent.

Good luck,
Bill C.

That I did not know! Thanks Bill!

Bill or Joe, can you give me a more complete list of the donor cars for these 11 rear brakes. I will be searching soon. I trust the 11 inch drums will still work to carry my stock 14 inch rally style wheels. Are the axles on the 76 or 77 cars you speak of bolted to the flange on the axle tube, or do I have to take off rear end cover to remove C clips? When I buy new drums are there 2 widths? Seems like you mentioned 3.5 inch wide. What is stock? Is a station wagon special in these years, and something good to look for in the junk yard? thanks for your time to reply. I want to upgrade my 69 rear after I do the disc conversion on the front this winter.

Bill,
I am in the go ahead stages of the gm rear disk swap and was wondering of you could elaborate a little on the "issues" of the cadillac calipers vs the camaro ones. I had assumed that they were the same caliper, just that the cadillac would have used a 'seperate' e-braks drum style brake inside the rotor ie ford explorer style. Is this not right? and if so how does it work? with a mechanically operated piston?
I was leaning towards the cadillac ones b/c i through that it would make for a cleaner installation.
Also I was curious as to how you are mounting your rear setup?? are you using the e-bay 3/8" custom brackets? and if so could you tell me if they mount towards the inside or outside of the axel tube backing plate mounting surfaces. Thanks

bhawk,
That pretty much is the list as I know it!! 76 0r 77 Montes for sure and then the same years for Malibus. There might be a few other years for the Malibus, but I'm not 100% sure. Best thing would be to ask a junk yard man what backing plates interchange with the 76 Monte Carlos'. They should fit under the 14" rims fine. Yes, you have to remove the axles to mount the backing plates. Most books showed 2 widths... I think 3.5" and 4" wide. The 4" wide ones are abot 3 times more than the 3.5" ones, so I chose the 3.5" ones. Never had a problem! It would be best to check the donor vehicle and maybe measure the old ones before you but new ones. Maybe you'll get lucky and find some useable ones in the yard with the backing plates!! I don't know about the wagons... don't see too many of that year...


Walrus,
The 'issues' I'm referring to include several things. The first is cost. Have you priced out the rear calipers yet? I could not find them anywhere for under $100 each! Way too much, so i decided to rebuild the ones I got at the yard. I then found out that the rebuild kits were like $15 each... basically the cost of a new front caliper!

Then I found out that rebuilding them is not near as easy as the front ones!! After I finally got them all cleaned, rebuilt and painted, I went to install them on the car. Yes, they are the bolt on kind that you have to pull the axles out for... another PITA! I have them mounted so the drivers as slightly to the rear of the axles tubes and the passenger side slightly forward of the axle tube. This caused yet ANOTHER problem with the ebrake cables! The drivers side comes in from the front... but I had to make a nice notch in the shock mount. The passenger side had to wrap around the axle and come in from the rear. Of course the stock Ebrake cables will not work, so I had to buy new ones and that took a while to figure out! Then a new intermediate cable and so on...

Finally, after getting them all mounted and all, they didn't work for crap. Turns out the adjuster was not working right and not taking up the slack. I finally found out that the stock caliper return spring was actually binding up before the caliper self-adjusted. I ended up trimming about 3 coils off the stock one and then stretching it back to length to get it to work. Then I finally got it all adjusted and working. I can say that now that it is adjusted and working, they stop real good, but I'm not sure I'd do it again!!

Again, I'm using the '77 Fleetwood rear disks that I found out later utilize the large backing plate AND the LARGE caliper! Basically, this is a front caliper (exact same size and all!) that has the rear ebrake piston and levers on it. I think this was a cheaper, one-year deal as everything after '77 uses the smaller calipers.

Anyway, hope that helps,
Bill C.

thanks bill for the mention. graemlins/hurray.gif
Walrus, if i recall correctly i believe the brackets go outward of the flange, but it will be very obvious once you put the rotor on and place the caliper on the bracket if it is not right.you want to be sure the caliper is free to slide at least a pad thickness in both directions on the pins. you could always ask the guy selling them on ebay.
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