pdq67 here.

I hang out over at the other site (Team Camaro) and thought that I would pop over and see what's going on.

Actually, I forgot my pass words and had ta e-mail to find out what they were since, stupid me didn't use the same ones at both sites.

I've been making a 5/16" thick flat steel caliper bracket that will mount a truck wide big single piston caliper with a 13" Vette rotor on a drum brake hub to the forged spindles common to both cars.

You can use a drum brake spindle by machining off some of the top bolt boss or the disc brake spindle by using a shim in this location.

Anybody interested.

Paul_ McConnell (aka pdq67)

I'd be interested...now if you could just throw in the dust shields... http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

Seriously tho, I have wanted to try this conversion, but anyone that sells these caliper mounting brackets wants at least $200 for them. Ridiculous!! I assume if you have disk brakes and just want to upgrade, you can use the same dust shields??

What are you making them out of? Do you have pictures?

Also, you talked about machining down the drum spindles to work but then about shimming the disk brake spindles...I'm confused. I have read several places that you can machine the drum spindles, but to take off about 3/8" to make them the same as disk brake spindles...please clarify.

Thanks,
Bill C.


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Bill C.
'71 SS (now with 468BBC)
'70 Nova 350/700r4
ACES #2780
Colo Spgs, CO

BC,

I made the brackets by hand fitting cardboard until I got what I wanted. I sized the mount bolt spread to give me 3/16" clearance between the caliper guide bolts and the rotor O.D.

Next, I've been chewing the suckers outa 5/16" thick flat steel plate by hand along with the steel-man that sold me the plate nibbling out the outer shape. The plate is 25 percent thicker than stock, so strengths should be adequate.

The drum brake spindle will work by machining it down the needed amount to put the top bolt boss in the same plane (or level)with the bottom boss.

Also, the disc brake spindle will work if you add a shim of the correct thickness to again put the top boss on the same plane or level with the bottom boss.

The dust shields won't fit because, (1), the brackets are different and (2), the rotor is now 13" instead of 11" in diameter. pdq67

Paul,
thanks for the info, still sounds interesting, are you selling these brackets? What are you doing about the dust shields if the stock ones don't work?

Do you use any particular year(s) for the calipers and hoses and pads and such? Can you use the stock truck pads for the calipers?

Also, do you what I can expect to pay for these parts?

Thanks,
Bill C.


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Bill C.
'71 SS (now with 468BBC)
'70 Nova 350/700r4
ACES #2780
Colo Spgs, CO

BC,

No, I'm not selling the brackets, but rather am offering a cardboard template to anybody that is interested in the concept.

I got into this years ago before I knew anything about disc brakes when I looked at putting the 11" diameter Z-16 1965 Chevelle front drum brakes on my car.
I then found an article in one of the mag's about the Seville Cad. rear disc conversion so it got me to looking at disc's.

If I would have known about it, I probably would have went the JL-8 route, but ignorance can be bless.

I bought a front conversion from a Pick-A-Part boneyard from a 1974 Apollo and started comparing rotor sizes and stuff because I wanted bigger disc's then the 11" stock ones. This lead me to the 13" Vette rotors and using my drum brake hub along with a homemade caliper bracket to mount the wide 1972 truck big single piston caliper.

I think that there are probably alot of guys that want to upgrade their brakes but just can't afford to anti-up the bucks for the high-priced conversion kits. I know I can't.

Thats why I made my template. pdq67

pdq67,

So is this template something you could send me or are you looking to sell it to some manufacturing place so they can make them and you just get lots of money?

Also, on the truck caliper...was that used with the bigger 13" rotors or the standard 11"? I always thought the trucks used 11" rotors also, so does this cause a problem when using the bigger rotors? Is it possible to use any of the other parts off the truck like the dust shields or brake lines?

Also, I have heard that when converting from drum to disks there is a problem with using the brake line 'bracket' that is welded to the frame where the hard and soft lines meet. Have you heard or know of any problem there?
Thanks again for the info.

Bill C.


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Bill C.
'71 SS (now with 468BBC)
'70 Nova 350/700r4
ACES #2780
Colo Spgs, CO

BC,

Will be glad to send you a "rough" cardboard copy of my template along with some stuff telling my plan. In fact am mailing one to Canada tomorrow.

E-mail me your name and address at my home and will get all out to you asap (FOR FREE).

BC, I have TWO motives here in this little bracket that I'm playing with.

One is to upgrade my sorry a--ed stock drums with brakes like I really can't afford due to their kit price.

And, two to help anybody else out that wants to try it too.

Yes, I started out to make some money with the bracket, but I really don't care about that at all anymore. BUT, I'm really enjoying helping others.

Get hold of David Pozzi over at Team Camaro and discus with him the bracket if you want to. David, Wayne Due and Teetoe have copies of my template and we've really been hashing stuff out on the big long post called "Gauging intrest in custom frame for Kyle Tucker suspension!!!" about subframes in the Brakes and Suspension spot.

I can't leave the post alone because what I would really like to do is use a tall cast-iron 12" rotor big car spindle on our first gen. Camaros by converting them to front steer like the second gen. Camaro's and your Chevelles.

But thats a whole 'nother game. pdq67

pdq67,

I will send you an email with my address, thanks again for the information.

Also, thanks for trying to help out others...as you can tell, I am no expert at this stuff, but enjoy learning whatever I can, even if it takes some trial and error work. I too enjoy helping othes, but many times find the topics WAY out of my range of knowledge...such as this one. Yes, I have been reading the posts at Camaros, I find tons of info over there also.

FYI, my motives in the whole process are to 1) try and upgrade the poorly performing disk brakes I have on my Chevelle, and 2) upgrade my stock drum brakes on my 70 Nova. I was thinking that maybe if this Cheap Big Brakes thing works out on the Chevelle, I could then just reuse the disks off the Chevelle on the Nova. My Nova is my daily driver, so I don't really need the upgrade to the bigger disks, the stock disks should work fine. The Chevelle is another story... I put a rather mildly built 468 BBC in it last summer and boy is it fun now!! It just doesn't stop as well as I hoped. I'm pretty sure I need a new booster, but would like to try the bigger brakes to see some improvement.

Anyway, I would appreciate any useful info or insight you might have, and thanks again for the help.

Bill C.


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Bill C.
'71 SS (now with 468BBC)
'70 Nova 350/700r4
ACES #2780
Colo Spgs, CO

BC,

Will get it in the mail to you.

I've got a 496 bb on the engine stand in front of my '67SS/RS in my garage. Should work well with my M-20 and 3.31 twelve bolt posi. Dyno2000 says it should put out in the neighborhood of 550hp at 5500rpm and 580t at 4500rp, just a big tow truck type engine, so should be fun. pdq67

pdq,
Hopefully you got the email I sent you, and thanks again for sending that stuff out, I'll be waiting by the mailbox!

Sounds like a pretty fun time that new motor...though you are a lot braver than I am putting that kind of horsepower into a first gen Camaro! I rode with a local guy a round here several years ago that had a pretty beefy 427 in his 69 Camaro and that was just too damn scary! Just about every time he would hit the gas, it would spin the tires. I figured I was safer putting the big-block in my full-framed, heavier Chevelle. It still has the origional 10 bolt posi with 2:73 gears so it doesn't get too squirrely on me, but still pretty fast. I'm also not making near that much power, I would have to guess about 375 to 425 horsepower.

Please keep me posted if you have any success in your quest for the 12" rotor spindles from a big cars w/front steering on a first gen camaro. I could use that for my Nova.

Bill C.


------------------
Bill C.
'71 SS (now with 468BBC)
'70 Nova 350/700r4
ACES #2780
Colo Spgs, CO

BC,
If you do a search on me, you will find where I've posted some "wild and crazy" stuff about my car and my buddy in his 1958 375hp/327 powered, (cammed) Vette.

I ain't prouda it, but looking back on it, I'm lucky ta be alive, what with the way I used to drive.

Another buddy had a tri-power 1958, 348 two door post, Biscayne that four of us left a little town one night with Barney Fief on our tail. At about 90 in second, we blew the right rear tire. Jerry, driving just cussed and pulled it down inta high and wound the old '48 out to about 120. We had to wait 30 minutes to take what was left of the tire off and replace wirh a spare. pdq67

Hello Paul,i am interested in this concept,could you send me the info?I will of course pay for the mailing cost,since i live outside the US.
Thanks,


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Halldor Ragnarsson Reykjavik
Malibu ´71
There are no problems,only solutions
Member#729

halldor,

E-mail me your full name and address at my home and I will be glad ta send a cardboard template and some stuff telling about my plan. No charge.

Thx for the interest. pdq67

Hi Paul,

I read your information a couple days ago, and have been thinking about it ever since. I'm impressed with this idea. I've already done a drum to 12" disc brake conversion on my 68 Chevelle convertible, and your idea has me thinking of ungrading the 11" (stock) disc brake conversion I did to my 68 Chevelle hardtop years ago. I'll email you my address and I'll reimburse you for postage.

Thanks

Paul, What is the smallest diameter wheel that will work with the 13" setup? Thanks, Jerry

JERRY66SS,

Stockton Wheel has said they can make a cheap steel 16" roundy-round wheel that will clear everything. Otherwise, you will need 17" ones for the front

The caliper sets in such a way that the wheel needs to have almost a straight rear face 15.5" in diameter to the wheels rim. And then it needs at least 1/4" where the caliper sticks out past the wheel mount face of the rotor.

I have again, a crude cardboard template to check wheel clearance with because I'm fast approaching buying some wheels for the front to finish everything.

I'm holding off because it seems like a new wheel comes out about monthly so hopefully there will be more 16" to consider. I really don't want to run 17's if I can find a good looking set of relatively inexpensive 16" wheels to run. The TT-II style with the steel rim look promising in a 16" size and should be priced fairly reasonable.

I priced a set of full one-off custom billet wheels from Colorado Custom about 2 weeks ago that were an exact 17" scale-up of the Fenton 14" slotted mags that I have been running. Colo.Cust. wanted $4,100.00 plus needed my wheels as patterns. Needless to say I thanked them and said they were way outa my league, BUT they woulda been cool!!! pdq67

Hi Paul. Thanks for the reply. It sounds like 13" brakes are out of the picture [for now]. I am low on funds for new wheels. I was wondering about Dave Pozzi's 11 3/4 inch cheap big brakes. Have you tried this? I would like to know if the center of the big rotor is the same as the 11". In other words would the big rotors register 1/8" further in and out due to being a 1/4" thicker or should I bop over to the Camaro sight and ask Dave? Thanks again, Jerry

Jerry66SS,

Please bop on over to Team Camaro and pick up info on David's CBB stuff.

I can't tell you how the JL-8 rotor fits with respect to the single piston caliper bracket. I think all you have to do is add metal to move out, then drill needed holes, but don't know for sure.

I do know that the 11.75" rear 1989 Camaro rotor is very close to the big 13" Vette rotor I'm using on the front with my setup so should be very close. Plus, they are the same size at the hub O.D. and center hole.

One thing you can do if you want to check rotors is get friendly with your local parts store and ask if you can look at several (WITH the stipulation you WILL buy a pair that fit your application). Thats what I did and bought both sets from them, (although not at the same time).

I started looking at the 1969 stock 11" rotor/hub type and compared them to the 1971 11" rotor hub type to see if I could mount the 12" rotor/hub type from the 1LE and the 1979 Impala. They won't because the bearings don't ride the same.

Then I looked at the 1980 Seville rear 10.5" rotor to find a bigger one, and thats how I found out the 13" Vette rotor fits.

I next fit the 1988 front Vette rotor to my drum brake hub and then went and used the 11.75" rear Camaro rotor in place of the 10.5" Seville rear one. "WHEW"

Then modified the Seville bracket for the rear and created my flat steel bracket for the front.

And thats, as Paul Harvey would say, the end of the story. Hope this helps. pdq67

Hi Paul

Very interesting discussion we have here. As you mentioned new wheels are coming out every month. Cragar is starting to produce the old style SS Cragar well known at the time, into 16" and 17" sizes. I will be upgrading to 17" as soon as they are available (early March).

I feel very interested into your work, because even with the first grade pads it's just not there, plus the new 17", better compounds, I need an upgrade there to.

I also intended to convert my rear to disk. I bought for very little money a complete Z-28 1995 rear end after many measurements, everything seams to bolt in place over the 4 bolt flange of my 12 bolts rear end.

I would appreciate if you can send me a copy of your work. I will e-mail you the info.

Thanks again
rick

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1969 SS convertable
fuel injected and 4 speed & lock up 4L60 tranny converted

pdq67. Is your bracket totally flat with no offsets? In the junkyard I was looking at 70 impala rotors. They are 11 3/4" by 1 1/4" and are one piece and the spindle looks the same in the bearing area as the Chevelle/ Camaro. I got the caliper brackets from the 70 Impala and the caliper mounting area is the same as the Chevelle, also the brackets are made symetrically and can be switched side to side. I am thinking of revising these to fit. I don't want to cut up the set of Chevelle brackets I have, especially after seeing Master Power Brakes smacking people $100 apiece for theirs. First thing I need to do is get the 70 Impala rotors and see if that works then go from there. Have you tried my idea? Thanks, Jerry

JERRY66SS,

My homemade bracket is flat and can be used on either side.

I don't know about the '70 Imp. 11.75"x1.25" one piece rotor. Is the Imp. caliper bracket made like the 11" chevelle/camaro/nova bracket, except that it has the holes moved out 3/8" so that it fits an 11.75" dia. rotor or is it different??

You said the Imp. brackets were symetrical. How so?? Because the stock A/F/X brackets are right and left I think because of the fold-over tabs that help line the calipers. I don't think these are needed, so aren't on my homemade brackets.

Also are the '70 Imp. spindles forged (with bolt on steering arms) and the same as ours or are they bigger and taller??

I was under the impression that the Imp. needed ta run bigger wheel bearings and seals because of its increased weight over the A/F/X cars.

Can you put the Imp rotor on your car to check its fit??? Man, I hope so!!!

We need ta look closely at this because if the '70 Imp. one piece 11.75" rotor will fit a A/F/X spindle, then all we would have ta do is fit a single piston caliper bracket.

David likes the 11.75"(12") x 1.25" thick rotors because (1), they can fit inside a 15" rim if the rim is made right and (2), they have more mass and therefore can take harder braking before becoming thermally overloaded, (so to say).

I'm not all that concerned with mass because I'm not gonna competition my car to the limit like David might. And the 13" rotor will require a little less squeeze due ta its larger diameter over the other two smaller rotors but it will be harder ta fit wheels to.

I can't resist it!! here it comes !!! As Rosanna-Rosanna Danna used ta say "it's always something"!!! At least I'm not from Jersey!!! LOL, LOL!!!

I hope you're old enough ta know who she was. pdq67

Paul, I'm going to the junkyard tomorrow. I will get one of those rotors and give it the acid test. Hope they are still there and this works!! I will post tomorrow. You ask if I remember Rosanne Rosanna Danna? I do, and also remember an 18 year old boy whose first new car was a 66 Chevelle SS396. Later, Jerry

hey, you guys are at it again and stole my idea!!! Great, let's hope it works. I had that idea of using the 12" one-piece rotor the other day while looking at a kit from one of the big brake parts guys that was for a 73-84 malibu. I understand the spindle is different, but I thought why would they change the bearing surfaces? you go Jerry, I have not been able to locate one of the 12" rotors yet, so if you get one, please let us know!! Also, if you get the caliper and brackets, I would really like to know what parts can be used from that also. I would be too sweet if we could just swap calipers/brackets/rotors over and be done and get 12" brakes!!

PS I'm still looking for some steel to make the brackets out of Paul, but haven't forgotten...

Bill C.


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Bill C.
'71 SS (now with 468BBC)
'70 Nova 350/700r4
ACES #2780
Colo Spgs, CO

pdq67. The Impala bracket looks like a wide horseshoe and if you hold it like a horseshoe it looks the same both left and right, kinda like a mirror image. Both bracket holes are the same size and on the same plane. I hope I explained that o.k., if not let me know. The 70 Impala spindles are forged, have bolt on steering arms,and are both taller and bigger. I don't see anything compatible with ours. To BC. I found the Impala bearings are larger than ours, but the spindle length is the same in the bearing area. . I am going to see if I can find bearings to fit both the Impala rotor and our spindles. Need to check the grease seal too. As far as brackets go you will have to make something like pdq's flat bracket or extend the stock disc bracket. Jerry

Jerry and Paul,
One thing I did realize today when checking on the Impala rotors is that these are 5x5 bolt pattern. This could pose a little problem if you didn't want to buy new rims... Anyone have a suggestion as to how to make a 4x4-3/4" rims fit on a 5x5 bolt pattern hub? I don't think it would be possible to modify the hub?? Any thoughts on using the bigger spindle on a Chevelle or Camaro?

One more little tid-bit a saw while looking at the parts catalog...the 'Vette rotors from 88 to 95 show a bolt pattern of 4-3/16". So does this mean they changed the actual bolt pattern ont he cars, or is that what the pattern is for where the rotor bolts to the hub?

Let us know how you are doing Jerry in your research.

Bill C.


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Bill C.
'71 SS (now with 468BBC)
'70 Nova 350/700r4
ACES #2780
Colo Spgs, CO

BC,

It's a typo error because I'm putting the 1988 13" Vette rotors on my '67's drum hub for my conversion on my Camaro. pdq67

BC. I am reasonably sure they measured 4 3/4". I will check again next trip to junkyard to be sure. Jerry

The Imp's should be 5 on 5 and the second gen 1LE is 5 on 4.75. They are the same rotor/hub, too. Or so I read. pdq67