I figured that this would be the best forum to post this in. I sure hope that at least some of you can relate to this....

I dunno what it is with American culture lately, but all I can say is that I'm a blue collar worker who is an aircraft mechanic employed for the past 29 years in a place that has literally thousands of workers (most of them male). My immediate department is located inside of a huge machine shop which is part of a big factory.

Despite the fact that I know literally hundreds of my co-workers there, only 3 of them even care about high performance cars, and one of those three even knows anything about them. But to make matters worse, I was standing around at the time clock waiting for the end of the shift along with 6 co-workers (all of them being male) when one of them mentioned my Chevelle, and asked why it has taken me years to restore it. Before I could answer, three of them began making negative comments about how I could've bought a new car with the amount of $$ that I must have into my Chevelle, and that I'd probably never get it on the road, blah, blah, blah.

So I said to all three of those jokers that it was their own shortcomings that have to do with the fact that none of them has ever even been under the hood of a car for much anything more than to add oil, let alone restored one before, and I said to them: "What do you guys like to do, play with Barbie dolls for a hobby?"..... here's the sad part:...as soon as I said that to those three wussies, they all immediately dropped the car topic, and began talking about how much Barbie dolls are worth now on e-bay.

All three of them went on and on for the next 2 to 3 minutes about what years and what models of Barbie dolls were worth the most! And yet, you could not ever engage any of these guys in a conversation about hi-perf cars of any kind for longer than 10-15 seconds. And for those 10-15 seconds, you would be doing all of the talking. These three guys, and the fourth one who joined in, range in ages from 30 yrs old, to 53 yrs old.

So please someone tell me...what the heck is wrong with our fellow American men who much rather talk about Barbie dolls than cars? Have all them been castrated? Or have all them turned gay? I was only kidding around when I asked the Barbie doll question, but I obviously hit the nail on the head. Pathetic. It's like these guys leave their brains and their gonads home with their wives before they leave for work, and they aren't allowed to engage in any independent thought unless such thought is included on their wives' approval list. Is this pathetic or what?

I think that most people have become dependent on other people to do everything for them. I know very few people that try to fix or do things for them selves. They automatically call for help or take thier things somewhere to be fixed. Not just cars but household items in general. Alot of people cant even make up thier own minds, they have to get advice from "professionals".

not being a DIY'er is one thing, but men literally having more interest in the current prices of barbie dolls than hotrod cars is just plain gay. One of these guys also boasts about going to Cher concerts, and has CD's from such music groups as the "Go-Go's" in his toolbox drawer.

Must be the department that you work in ;)
I know a few people that work there that are into cars....the guys in the paint shop come to mind.

And I hear ya Billy...some guys today take that metrosexual,manicure loving crap to the next level.They'll never know what its like to spin a wrench on a car and have that feeling of satisfaction. They can keep their Barbie doll market knowledge! :D

I work in a machine shop and at least half the tool boxes have pictures of cars and scantily clad women.

Must be just your shop. :D

i work in an aircraft shop.closing next year which i told about on another post. allmost everyone hear is into some kind of mechanical interest or woodworking etc but out average age is 59

Run dont walk, and for gods sake dont bend over for any thing you drop while at work:D

I'd be checking the water fountains at your shop for estrogen additives!
You could be next!

Dan

why has it taken years to restore a car? lol
you would be suprised how many people in the car industry dont touch cars after leaving work
a lot of NHRA, NASCAR drivers, mechs., etc, just have everyday cars, not in to working on them or collecting them
a friend of mine is a multi millionaire, heads a huge corp., but he will climb under a car with the best of them, show up at a car show and hang out all night-he could afford the best, but does what he can and thats where it stops, if he cant do it it doesnt get done any better-but he is rare

Must be the department that you work in ;)
I know a few people that work there that are into cars....the guys in the paint shop come to mind.

And I hear ya Billy...some guys today take that metrosexual,manicure loving crap to the next level.They'll never know what its like to spin a wrench on a car and have that feeling of satisfaction. They can keep their Barbie doll market knowledge! :DYeah, it's like 80% of the guys who work there carry ***-bags to work with them. I see a greater percentage of the men there walking in with straps over there shoulders than the percentage of women. Yes, the metro-sexual thing is really the in thing. Once in awhile I meet a woman who voices a distaste for men like that, and I really have to a respect a woman for that. But it isn't often! I get the impression that many woman actually like that. :sad:

The paint shop is clear across the other side of the building from where my dept. is at ( about a 1/4 mile away) and so that's why I don't know those guys over there. The ones you're thinking of might also be on another work shift than I am on too.

i work in an aircraft shop.closing next year which i told about on another post. allmost everyone hear is into some kind of mechanical interest or woodworking etc but out average age is 59Yeah, maybe the workforce being older might have something to do with it. Many of these younger guys behave like their gonads are up inside their stomachs.

Run dont walk, and for gods sake dont bend over for any thing you drop while at work:DLOL!!!:D Good one.

I'd be checking the water fountains at your shop for estrogen additives!
You could be next!

DanThat's it!!! I'm staying clear of those things!!!

why has it taken years to restore a car? lol
Lack of $$ number one, and this being my first restoration is number two. I've hotrodded cars for years, but never restored one until I bought this one. There aren't any race tracks in this homestate of mine, and I don't go to car shows very often either (not really into that) so I don't meet a whole lot of people who are into old muscle cars until I venture out of state to the dragstrips of choice to race or to spectate. But that's only a few days out of the year for me.

But a couple decades ago, a guy didn't have to attend car shows, nor go to dragstrips on a weekly basis to get to know other people who are into muscle cars, even in my homestate. That sure has changed. However, my original post in this thread wasn't just about the lack of muscle car interest, but more about what the typical American male has become. It's just kinda creepy. It's like the women around here have found a way to program us, and I'm one of the last few hold-outs. Maybe that's why I haven't gotten real tight emotionally with my last couple lady friends.

So,are you saying I should my Barbie collection now while prices are up?:D

So,are you saying I should my Barbie collection now while prices are up?:DEither that, or buy a bigger pocket book to carry them in, so you can show them to all your friends when you see them at the "Linens & Things" stores, or at the "Nails & Things" Boutique. :D

Must be the department that you work in ;)
I know a few people that work there that are into cars....the guys in the paint shop come to mind.

And I hear ya Billy...some guys today take that metrosexual,manicure loving crap to the next level.They'll never know what its like to spin a wrench on a car and have that feeling of satisfaction. They can keep their Barbie doll market knowledge! :D

Of on my friends is 6'3' 300lbs and can bench 500lbs, big time wrestler, drives a camaro from the mid 80s...real strong, but he gets manicures and pedicures and i saw him onces with cucumbers in his eyes...

onnce i think i saw him with lipstick on but can't be sure, when he saw me drop by he quickly went to the "BR" for a second. :confused:

weird..

Same way in my line of work. 2 other guys work here and I know most of the guys in the region (13 counties).
NONE of them know anything about cars, motorcycles, garden, home repairs, hunting, fishing, or anything else in common with me.
Suits me just fine. My work life is just that..work life.
My private life stays that way.

Billy,

It's very simple...

It's a Connecticut thing, we wouldn't understand.


Seriously though, about half of the guys in our small shop are into some form of car hobby... one is into Sprints and Nascar but has come out to watch me run a couple of times (he's my also boss) another is our fleet mechanic who's into 5.0 Mustangs but volunteered a trailer, towed me to Pink's All Out, and helped wrench on the car), a couple of others are into sand drags.

We've got such a great network of Team Chevelle guys in the NW that help each other out constantly that the only time I can't find someone to talk cars with is when I'm at one of my wife's work or friend gatherings... I guess I should look into internet for my cell phone for those occasions.:D

I'm pretty sure the owner of this car works where your speaking of.

http://www.supercarraces.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=222

Of on my friends is 6'3' 300lbs and can bench 500lbs, big time wrestler, drives a camaro from the mid 80s...real strong, but he gets manicures and pedicures and i saw him onces with cucumbers in his eyes...

onnce i think i saw him with lipstick on but can't be sure, when he saw me drop by he quickly went to the "BR" for a second. :confused:

weird..Yep, sounds like he's either going through a serious identity crisis, or he's in the 6 month pre-sex-change period that physicians require their patients to go through before the gender change surgery. One of those guys I was talking about in my first post was allegedly pulled over for speeding on Hallowen night several years ago, when he was dressed in drag. Supposedly, that detail was included in the police blog of the local newspaper. I didn't see it, but knowing him, I believe it.

Same way in my line of work. 2 other guys work here and I know most of the guys in the region (13 counties).
NONE of them know anything about cars, motorcycles, garden, home repairs, hunting, fishing, or anything else in common with me.
Suits me just fine. My work life is just that..work life.
My private life stays that way.Yeah, but when you consider the fact that you spend more time with your co-workers on the job 8 hours a day, than you ever do with your friends, I don't see how the metro-sexual behavior cannot disgust you.

Billy,

It's very simple...

It's a Connecticut thing, we wouldn't understand.


Maybe it is a CT thing, but from what I've heard, it can't be much worse than some of those predominant lesbo counties in Washington state either. ;)
We've got such a great network of Team Chevelle guys in the NW that help each other out constantly that the only time I can't find someone to talk cars with is when I'm at one of my wife's work or friend gatherings... I guess I should look into internet for my cell phone for those occasions.:D That's real cool. Not many here from my homestate (see what I mean?).

I'm pretty sure the owner of this car works where your speaking of.

http://www.supercarraces.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=222 Well, I'm a bit more open minded than that. That isn't particularly my cup of tea either, but if I had to make a choice, I'd rather look at that, than the wrong-wheel-drive warmed-over economy cars, with the engines that sound like weed-wackers, the fart cans, spinners, and curb feelers. And let's not forget the ones with purple neon lights underneath them to light up the pavement whereever they're driven. Talk about gay...

Yeah, but when you consider the fact that you spend more time with your co-workers on the job 8 hours a day, than you ever do with your friends, I don't see how the metro-sexual behavior cannot disgust you.

The two guys in my office are not gay or flamboyant in any way. Just don't have the same things in common as I do.
The trend in society to a metro sexual where who knows what who is and nobody cares.......that disgusts me. Part of the whole PC thing that is undermining the strength of this nation.
I think that the days of no one knowing or caring how to do anything and paying someone else are dwindling. Grown healthy men paying someone else to mow their grass, wash their car, trim their bushes, clean their homes, wash their dog, etc. while they sit in the recliner and watch TV. What is that all about?
We are a lazy society no doubt.

I haven't noticed anything like that around here but I try not to let other folk's interest bother me and hang with people that share some of the same interests as I do.

its just a sign of the times.
you have these guys that dont have what it takes to do the basics this country was founded on.man, i like to think that neccecity is the mother of invention.
then u got these shows on tv where they do all this stuff in 1/2 hour. with all new parts.
wheres the guys that are putting the best parts from the factory engineers together and kickin as?
not everybody has the money to buy all the new advertised **** to put on there car to make it run poorer. sad, pathetic and real, thats just the way it is.
to many guys making child support payments, money that could of went into their motor {not judgemental}
to many guys listening to their wifes because they dont have the stones.
uh well, thats life.
enjoy.

.....Grown healthy men paying someone else to mow their grass, wash their car, trim their bushes, clean their homes, wash their dog, etc. while they sit in the recliner and watch TV. What is that all about?

I'm guilty of paying someone else to do my yard and that's it, but that leaves me the time to do swap meet and ebay stuff (strictly car parts, no dolls or crap like that) and go to the drag races. I don't even have a tv or a recliner so we don't need to go there. On my cars, if I can't do it myself, pretty much it ain't gonna get done. That's one of the big reasons I don't have a computer controlled car. They're fine for your wife or girlfriend, but personally, I'd rather drive a 57 Chevy or my 65 El Camino.

I argue some of the same points Billy. Thats why they have to put traction control, antilock brakes and a ton of that crap on new cars so all the women and men that wear skirts can drive'm.:sad:

It is the homonization of our country. Women cant bring themselves up to be the equals of men so they would rather drag the men down a bit so as to be equal.
We made a huge mistake when we allowed women to vote. The more we allow women to run things the more mommytized our country will be.

Women have the right to vote?

The guys at my work have no idea even how to open the hood not to mention add oil, it is the feminization of America.

I am raising my son to do guy stuff, he needs to know how to do home repair, yard work and work on cars. Some of my Webelos don't know how to work on stuff at home or their fathers won't spend time with them or they don't have a male figure in their life.

I also think part of the problem is mothers (and many fathers) are too protective. Let boys be boys, they will get hurt but so what, we crashed our bikes, fell out of trees, jumped off roofs, ran through cornfields, rode skateboards and did many other dangerous things, big deal, we survived and they will too.

A toughened up boy becomes a real man not a "metrosexual."

must be a metro sexual thing??? maybe its cos we are car guys that we see things diferent. i am AMAZED at the amount of men that cant even change a set of spark plugs or do an oil change , yet some of these men?? can tell you all about stupid soap operas, or whats the best shampoo or stuff to use. lady men i call them.:D. dont get me wrong i do my share of the housework and i like cooking, liz says im a better cook than her, (think she pulled a fast one there, it means i cook more lol.)one of our gang has more shampoos, aftershaves , soaps and moisturisors and such lady stuff than any woman i know. i take the p**s outa him cos he smells like a pounce.im going grey on the sides and liz says she is going to dye it when im asleep, told her that she would die quicker.:D:D.what is it with women watching gay men dress women in fancy clothes, the amount of those shows is just freaky.

Could be a sign of the times....could not be. Look at me and my brother for example. I restored my 66 Chevelle, restored his 67 Nova, I have a 62 Cadillac, dirtbikes, guns, all the cool toys. He could absolutely care less. I can pretty much fully restore a car by myself, but he can only do brake pads and oil changes. While I do claim that he's extremely gay(wife and kid are a cover), he just has zero interest in this stuff. Oh and I'm only 24.

Of on my friends is 6'3' 300lbs and can bench 500lbs, big time wrestler, drives a camaro from the mid 80s...real strong, but he gets manicures and pedicures and i saw him onces with cucumbers in his eyes...

onnce i think i saw him with lipstick on but can't be sure, when he saw me drop by he quickly went to the "BR" for a second. :confused:

weird..

I'd be scared of that guy. "You got a pretty mouth"

I'd be scared of that guy. "You got a pretty mouth"


Yeah...i've been staying away, he jut gota suzuki haybusa, told me he wants to take me on ride on it going 200 mph!!!

texted him yesterday, said he was getting his "hair done"

HAHAHA :eek:

He acts macho...but i know deep down hes kind of a girl. :D

It HAS TO BE WHERE YOU WORK. I teach shop and drafting at a semi rural high school in California and there is the same proportion of nancy boys as there has always bee. There has been and always will be guy who have absolutely no interest in working on things. There is however a lot of guys that could bring down a cities infrastructure with the click of a mouse.

In the 50's and 60's men carried briefe cases by a handle, those Merses (men purses) that they carry now are the same thing just have a strap on them instead of a handle.

One thing I see with some of the posts on this thread is that there are a lot of guys that have their head in the sand with their own hobbies. Ill take flack for it and you can flame me all you want, but if I had the chance and the money Id pay someone to mow my lawn, sweep my pool and pull my weeds, it would give me a LOT more time to work on my car, go hunting, spend time with my 2 year old son and wife, and get out more with the chevelle.

But to each his own. I have a line in the sand as do you with the feminization of this nation but it has nothing to do with someone's hobbies more to do with their beliefes on what the nation was built on.

I also encourage the ricer/fartcan crowd because they are atleast interested in the auto hobby. What you are interested in is not what the first hot rodders were into. Thay didnt have over head valves, or fancy carbs or electronicly controled distributors. They too resisted change, and the way the car industry is going is that way. In the 60s guys had tri-fives because they were dime a dozen, we got into camaros and chevells because they were dime a dozen, and kids these days cant afford either no matter how much money they save up, the Hondas are way cheeper and much easier/cheaper to hop up (in their eyes) a $5,000 starter is not in their interest, they want to drive, and work on the car. to spend another 5 grand just on an engine just doesnt do it for em.



To each his own.

I effing love this topic.

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To each his own.

AMEN :thumbsup:

When you get into your 70's you start to realize the real meaning of life.
Maybe y'all will understand someday that you couldn't care less about why other folks don't care for things that you like.

AMEN :thumbsup:

When you get into your 70's you start to realize the real meaning of life.
Maybe y'all will understand someday that you couldn't care less about why other folks don't care for things that you like.

Come on now Dean, you dont have to be in your 70's. ;)

Im 35 and really couldnt care less what others are into, what they do with there lives, or even what there sexual orientation is. The only thing I care about is that they are enjoying life as well. It is absolutely none of my business nor my concern what it takes for them to enjoy there own lives. As long as I am enjoying mine and they there's, everything is good in my world.

Jeff

AMEN :thumbsup:

When you get into your 70's you start to realize the real meaning of life.
Maybe y'all will understand someday that you couldn't care less about why other folks don't care for things that you like.

True. But thats a two way street as well.

Someone rolls into me about how I could of bought a new car instead of working on the chevelle and all that jazz...and then demonstrates that they have all of their barbie documentation in order and explains their hobby...while knocking mine....then its on and your going to hear allllllll about your hobby for the next half hour+.

I may even offer a nice hand massage to get rid of any potential for callouses and give you a copy of "self" magazine to peruse all of the newest manicuring techniques while I explain how you could approach explaining to your wife, tactfully, that your marriage is a sham and a cover that only came about because you were just scared to come out of the closet to your family. :D

So I am with you, Dean...but if someone else opens the door to that discussion then im going to have fun with them about their hobby until I hear "ok, ok, im sorry...please stop, please stop....please" You want to go heads up on hobbies then you better bring something to the table that doesnt automatically disqualify you because of a flagrant "man rule" violation.

We're talking guns and you roll in talking about new pastel wallpapers and adding some "whimsy" to your wardrobe with sequins....whoa man hang on to your lace petticoat cause im coming in HOT ;)

:D

Even my gay uncle knows better than that. ;)

I agree with "to each his own" but everyone needs to agree that there is a "pussification" going on in this country. What wories me is what would happen if we were to get invaded on US soil, who could we count on?
Kids nowadays are more worried about saving a tree than basic fundamentals. The guys that are busy talking about Barbie dolls would cower and join the enemy like the "sheep" that they are.
My .02

I believe that some of you relate to what I've explained, while others may have missed my point. It's still cool to hear everyone's viewpoints on this stuff, and some have brought up things I've never even thought about. For me, it isn't so much that other guys aren't into the exact same thing that I myself am into. But it's when I see and have to be around other men, most of whom aren't into any guy things at all, unless their wives want them to be into them (like carpentary for instance, just so the mrs. can have that deck that she demands, or an extra room added onto the homestead).

Even the TV shows they watch. I know a guy who loves watching "Sex in the City" just because his wife watches it, but you will not ever catch him watching any guy shows. It wouldn't have to neccesarily be shows that I watch myself.

For instance, I'm not much into hunting nor fishing. But if guys are into that, I can atleast recognize that they're into some guy things. Yes, I've enjoyed fishing before with some buddies, but I can take it or leave it. But that's just me. As far as the hunting thing, I obtained my hunting license awhile ago, but just haven't got around to it. I enjoy 50 caliber target shooting though, and I happen to own a .50 cal rifle.

But what really gets me is when you meet other guys who have allowed themselves to be so programmed by their mommy's and/or their wives, that not only would they never be into cars, guns, fishing, hunting, drag racing, etc., etc, but when they see a guy who's into hotrodding muscle cars, and/or drag racing, they actually make fun of him, and look at him as the weirdo, instead of recognizing how metro-sexual they themselves have become. Even to the extent that they actually enjoy discussing the prices of barbie dolls rather than what muscle engine is the bomb.

This is what I was talking about. And as far as the briefcase comparison, I wasn't speaking about briefcases, which are filled with purely white collar business needs. I was talking about those *** bags that are often carried by some blue collar male workers which most of the time are NOT filled with business items at all, but personal items that these metro-sexuals seemingly can't leave home without. It's just plain gay. I know guys that have to go to the hair salon once every couple months to get a "Perm"!! What's up with that?

Then there's a manager at the place where I work, who actually paints his toenails!!! I know this, because my buddy met his ex-wife, and she told him about this. I've never known women to make up that sort of thing about their ex-husbands. Other things they will make up, sure, but not of that nature. So I'm inclined to believe that.

One word sums up why this has, is and will continue to happen.

Feminists.


Cant live with em, cant live without em...and they wont get you a damn beer when you tell them to.

One word sums up why this has, is and will continue to happen.

Feminists.


Cant live with em, cant live without em...and they wont get you a damn beer when you tell them to.Well, maybe that's one way that I'm different than most. I CAN live without them. I've met women who were gorgeous on the outside, and who were very interested in me too, but as soon as I saw that they were extreme with that feminist crap, and extreme with proving to every man they meet how "independent" they are, I've steered clear of them, and will continue to do so. I'd rather live alone if I had to than to be stuck under the same roof with one of those.

I love women in general, and show them the utmost respect. But quite frankly, I sometimes wonder if the USA began going downhill in 1921 when women were given the right to vote and to have driver's licenses. For instance, I bet many presidents have gotten into the Whitehouse purely based on their outward appearence simply because of the female vote, and I've heard more than one woman admit that they often vote for the best looking guy for Pres. That's just plain scarey.

I sometimes wonder if the USA began going downhill in 1921 when women were given the right to vote and to have driver's licenses. .


You should run for senate on this platform. It would be especially convincing if you have a daughter that could give speeches on your tour to push the agenda.

"I dont want to be able to drive or vote and my daddy doesnt want me to either! Whos with us!"

I only wonder if the reply would be a resounding "Alahu Akbar!" from the crowd.

;)

At first, I thought this was going to be an anti-Scottish thread.

*** bags..l:)l:) never heard that one before. whats with men dressed up as pimps in see through silk or satin shirts for ball room dancing,..yuch. my dad was a fantastic ballroom dancer but at least her wore a tux and it was manly looking..... i bought liz all and i mean all the sex in the city box sets. i watched bout 20 mins in and moaned so much that i was barred from the tv room. its pure crap of a programme, one of the lads in work loved it , i told him to go hire a porno, he said it was the clothes..guess who aint coming out with us lot.... as i said earlier my plan was to moan and bitch about sex in the city knowing id be barred ,cos i spent many happy hours working on my chevelle while liz watched it. smart or what.

It HAS TO BE WHERE YOU WORK. .

I agree, it must be something about the shop or particular area of the shop... I work in an office so there are alot of guys here that are dressed very neatly (no dirt under the finger nails, neatly ironed clothes, hair styled, etc), but even though they spend time on their appearance, most aren't feminine ( there's a few, to be sure). There are alot that have side businesses (contractors), and several are into "guy" stuff (hunting, fishing cars), but many just have other interests (NOT Barbies, at least not that anyone would publicly admit).

Although I am one of the few that actually owns and works on my own classic cars.


...if I had the chance and the money Id pay someone to mow my lawn, sweep my pool and pull my weeds, it would give me a LOT more time to work on my car, go hunting, spend time with my 2 year old son and wife, and get out more with the chevelle.

But to each his own. I have a line in the sand as do you with the feminization of this nation but it has nothing to do with someone's hobbies more to do with their beliefes on what the nation was built on. .

I hired a gardener for the past 2 years, because I was busy doing other stuff... I recently let him go, and do it myself, although the yard's already suffering... I vacuum the house for my wife, not because I enjoy it, but because I want her to be happy with more free time... A happy wife = a more gracious wife when it comes to playing (and buying lots of parts for) the Chevelle. Marriage is a parnership, and I treat my wife as an equal.

The feminism of the nation... I agree... I think its multi-faceted though... Part is the Nanny-State government, and part is the feminist women raising their sons... Sure, some was the courts, etc, but what happened to the father's of all these boys? Not that doing "manly things" will automatically work with everyone, I do this that boys need their father's ( or other males) help in learning these manly things...

Kind of ironic for me, my dad passed away when I was 15, but my mom was a strong woman that loved drag racing and fast cars (instilled by my father), so she frequently was in the garage helping me work on my Chevelle, etc.

I also encourage the ricer/fartcan crowd because they are atleast interested in the auto hobby. What you are interested in is not what the first hot rodders were into. Thay didnt have over head valves, or fancy carbs or electronicly controled distributors. They too resisted change, and the way the car industry is going is that way. In the 60s guys had tri-fives because they were dime a dozen, we got into camaros and chevells because they were dime a dozen, and kids these days cant afford either no matter how much money they save up, .

Oh Boy...
While I DON'T enjoy the "ricers", and it would be great to get these youngsters into "classic" American cars, I agree thats its generally not financially feasible for the youth of today... At least by encouraging a love of performance and fostering mechanical apptitude, we can hope to see some of the youths eventually switch to an American V8 car... But at least the ones that don't go that way, hopefully we can get them to give up all the "poser" image stuff (neon, big rear wings, stickers,etc), but we used to have our own "poser, ricer-esque crowd", remember the shackles and airshocks?. We can't forget that most of us grew up when these cars were a common site... they are no longer a common site on the streets, and even less common in the school parking lots...

I plan on getting my daughter's interested in cars... Not only so we can enjoy more time together while still allowing me to play with my cars, but so they will have an idea and appreciation for mechanical things...

To each his own.

Thats right... Some of aren't as fortunate to have the extra time to go to the drag strip, or build up a car from scratch. Some no longer (or never) had the desire to play with old cars, or any cars. Some have other hobbys. I agree that "collecting" Barbies sounds really gay, but NOT enjoying Muscle cars, or Hunting, or shooting, etc does not make them necessarily less manly...

I think Billy's coworkers do sound odd...


I love women in general, and show them the utmost respect. But quite frankly, I sometimes wonder if the USA began going downhill in 1921 when women were given the right to vote and to have driver's licenses. For instance, I bet many presidents have gotten into the Whitehouse purely based on their outward appearence simply because of the female vote, and I've heard more than one woman admit that they often vote for the best looking guy for Pres. That's just plain scarey.

WOW? Driver's licenses? Really? And "respect" is more than being nice to your date...

While there always do seem to be alot of dittzes out there, I think it mostly has to do with the way women are treated and educated in this culture. My grandfather had two daughters, and although she's no "tom boy", my mother alway says she was like my grandfather's son. My aunt is a little more girlie and more ditzie. Think about it. Why should it matter, son or daughter? Teach either to enjoy hunting, cars, etc... Ever meet a girl that actually built a car with her dad's help? Talk to one sometime, and I think you'll find most of the ditzie/dumb blonde aspects are missing...

After attending college, even engineering classes, it was apparent that the females typically WERE much smarter and more serious about their studies. But women in engineering are relatively few. And it stems back to elementary school, where society tends to have girls do "girlie thinks", and not become interested in science. Boys tend to do me science-related stuff.

So I think its more that although women were given the right to vate, there was still ( and is still) allot of bias...

And I have heard far more guys voting for a candidate based on one single reason (or maybe a few minor issues)... The point being, just because SOME women might vote for the "best dressed", I think that most do not...

Of course, that is a reason for candidates to be nicely dressed, as they might pick up a few extra votes, and probably not lose any...

Here in California, our governor was elected largely because he was a popular actor, and it wasn't just females that voted for him...

Just goes to show you cant just people by where they are working anymore.... expecting machinists etc. to be into old cars... jobs are jobs and hobbies are something else, they arent necessarily related...

i was surprised to be at a table with some other 'white collar' guys, of course i dont talk cars... they are probably not into it... then my coworker mentioned to someone that i had a 67 Beaumont, my coworker brought up his 67 camaro that needs resto, another guy at the table mentioned he's working on a bagged pro-tour cutlass 442 with a 455, the last guy races bikes and has a customized 4x4 all built up for play too.... you just never know!

ak

WOW? Driver's licenses? Really? And "respect" is more than being nice to your date...

...Ofcourse it is. That isn't what I meant by showing women respect. I show kindness to women of ALL ages, and regardless of their weight or appearence. Just as I do to most other people. I saw an elderly handicapped guy who works where I do, struggling with some heavy aircraft parts on a cart. Machinists were just walking right by him, and not caring about how much he was struggling. This guy is also a war veteran.

So I walked up and asked him where it was that he needed those parts to be at, and after he told me, I placed them where he needed them to go. To me, it's no big deal. It only took me about 30 seconds. But I was kinda aggrivated with my other co-workers who where walking by him, and ignoring his struggle. There were actually some guys just sitting down doing absolutley nothing, and staring at the guy too. But they wouldn't get off their butt to ask him if he needed help, just because he gets paid the same rate as they do.

That's the type of respect (or lack thereof ) that I was talking about. Not being nice to a woman while on a date, just to hopefully get in her pants later on that evening. If that's what you thought I meant, then you have me ALL wrong.

I blame two major causes for this.....

1. In general, each generation has it a little financially better off than their parents. I have a better job than my dad did... When I turned 16, I had to drive a POS!!! If it wasnt for that, I may have never learn to spin a wrench!!! My dad was NOT into hot-rodding, but he had tools and knew how to fix things BECAUSE HE HAD TO!
Now days parents just provide a nice car for their kids and thier idea of hot-rodding has to do with stopping by PEP BOYS!!!

2. If boys grow up with NO male influence in thier lives, how do you expect them to become men???

It is not WOMENS fault... they are 1/2 of the balance.... it takes BOTH!!!

Just my opinion....

I am proud to say that 100% of the people in my office are car guys.

Disclaimer: I work from my home office.

Our last 2 IT guys at work have been car guys. The current one is into offroad rally racing.

.

The feminism of the nation... I agree... I think its multi-faceted though... Part is the Nanny-State government, and part is the feminist women raising their sons... Sure, some was the courts, etc, but what happened to the father's of all these boys? Not that doing "manly things" will automatically work with everyone, I do this that boys need their father's ( or other males) help in learning these manly things...



...Yes! Agreed. Good point. I think that some fathers, just don't care about actually BEING fathers. Particualrly to their sons. They sure do enjoy the act of making babies, but later on they don't follow up with the responsibility that comes afterward. So you end up having a lot of momma's boys in leadership roles in our society.

True. But thats a two way street as well.

Someone rolls into me about how I could of bought a new car instead of working on the chevelle and all that jazz...and then demonstrates that they have all of their barbie documentation in order and explains their hobby...while knocking mine....then its on and your going to hear allllllll about your hobby for the next half hour+.

I may even offer a nice hand massage to get rid of any potential for callouses and give you a copy of "self" magazine to peruse all of the newest manicuring techniques while I explain how you could approach explaining to your wife, tactfully, that your marriage is a sham and a cover that only came about because you were just scared to come out of the closet to your family. :D

So I am with you, Dean...but if someone else opens the door to that discussion then im going to have fun with them about their hobby until I hear "ok, ok, im sorry...please stop, please stop....please" You want to go heads up on hobbies then you better bring something to the table that doesnt automatically disqualify you because of a flagrant "man rule" violation.

We're talking guns and you roll in talking about new pastel wallpapers and adding some "whimsy" to your wardrobe with sequins....whoa man hang on to your lace petticoat cause im coming in HOT ;)

:D

Even my gay uncle knows better than that. ;)

Funny stuff :hurray:

Some people's imagination sure can come up with a bunch of crap.
Not that it bothers me, I just set back and laugh at the sky is falling comments.

I should have added, I also couldn't care less about what other people think/say about things that I prefer.

There are so many kids being brought up fatherless today which is why people like Bill volunteer to help out with programs like Big Brother etc.

I agree with "to each his own" but everyone needs to agree that there is a "pussification" going on in this country. What worries me is what would happen if we were to get invaded on US soil, who could we count on?


Don't worry - there are still plenty of us rednecks with guns out here. :D

I have an easier time conversing with members of the opposite sex,and I have more female than male friends. I guess part of the reason could be I always ran with my wife and her 3 friends all the time. Looks like I'm part of the problem.:D

The guys that are busy talking about Barbie dolls would cower and join the enemy like the "sheep" that they are.

Then what's to worry about?

But i look so good in it :D

There are a variety of reasons, but here are three that are prevalent:

1. Light beer. Light... Really? It's not bad enough that those d-bags ask for IPA or small brewers. They want lite beer. Fat Tire Flat tire.. Please ladies. It's beer. If you're drinking beer, you're already wearing a skirt. Heard of lite Whiskey? Me neither. Have a whiskey and STFU.

2. Coffee/Wine snobbery. It's coffee. It's whine (sic wine). Who gives a crap. If you have to have a conversation about coffee, have a french press, or order your coffee with the same length of directions that it takes to start my 74 Chevy (hold the gas pedal down. Pump it twice. wait 5 seconds and then hold it down and crank) then you have a vagina. It's not my fault. Don't send me crappy PMs.

3. You can't function if ________. You can't function? You're a man. Function. You can't function if I don't know cars? FO. You can't function if I have a "man bag". FO. You have to start a thread because you have questions about your coworkers sexuality because they like Barbie? FO.

Having a Chevelle doesn't make you a man. Having balls makes you a man. Grab hold ladies, it's a bumpy ride.

Peach out! :D :D :D

I totally forgot number 4. Automatics! Nothing says I smoke pole like getting into an automatic. If I had $1 for every automatic driver I knew that was effeminate, I'd be rich. I promise you all those barbie talking puffers were driving an automatic. Great googly moogly!

If you ain't shiftin' it, you ain't a man. Right? Who's with me?

Eh....know of quite a few here that are a pretty menopausal when the slightest bit of humor or sarcasm is posted and the tough guys tap the report button like a video game because someone not in the "popular members club" posted. Waaaaaaa.
The skirt wearers are everywhere.


Its Ok, you can delete this one too. :sad:

Good thread. I'm tired of coming in contact with useless guys that don't try to fix things or figure out how stuff works. They don't own any tools, guns, motorcycles, muscle cars, bows, fishing gear, custom knives, or any other decent man-toys. They just try to sucker you into fixing their crap with your tools.

I work with a bunch of engineers and they are all into cars, 4x4's, and motorcycles. I guess there's still hope. Seems like it's the indoor computer gaming crowd that's destined to turn out metro-homo. Most don't have good father figures around either, sad really.

Eh....know of quite a few here that are a pretty menopausal when the slightest bit of humor or sarcasm is posted and the tough guys tap the report button like a video game because someone not in the "popular members club"posted. Waaaaaaa.


There's a Popular Members Club?! Hey, I wasn't invited! :mad: :rolleyes: ;)

Lol, a friend of mine works in the Good Guys organization, on their magazine publishing/design side. He is a car guy by relation. He knows a ton about cars/different models, all kinds of stuff because its what he does for a living. But does he have a hotrod himself or work on his own a lot... not really.

It is surprising though that within an organization like his how many people aren't "car guys" he does say though that their VP or something is a huge gear head and uses their shop to work on his personal dragster all the time. I'm going to go down there one day and just hang out, has to be a cool place at their headquarters!

Decades of the progression of modern conveniences and laziness are the answers to your question Billy. Nowadays, even when people have an emergency, they call someone else to help them instead of doing something themself.

Lead, follow, or get outta the way....and nobody has a brain(or testicles) of their own anymore it seems. True car guys are a rare breed, and I will take that even farther that in my life, I pretty much do everything on my own, not just on my car. I may look dirty, a bit unkempt at times(working on my stuff in the garage, visiting the parts store, etc.) and dressed in tattered work clothes but when I open my mouth to say something, people are often astonished at the words I choose and how they are arranged. You see, if you've got a brain and testicles, you take the time to think before you speak, and to have a purpose to its meaning when involved in an important conversation.

Remember this.....a man with a purpose and backbone will look you directly in the eyes when speaking to you.

Don't mind me. :d

Uh, that was tongue-in-cheek there Billy. See how I picked things that most people here do? Like drink beer and coffee and drive automatics?

I think Jeff's "peach out" and the :D confirms the tongue in cheek

...at least thats how I read it.

I'm off to clean my guns and have an Irish coffee....

I'm off to get my weekly pedicure and bikini wax men. See you later.

Uh, that was tongue-in-cheek there Billy. See how I picked things that most people here do? Like drink beer and coffee and drive automatics?OOOOPPPPPSSS! Sorry Jeff. I guess I owe you an apology. Please excuse me for getting a bit vicsous there. I obviously was pretty slow on that one. :(

Must be all that Estrogen that my employer has been spiking the water with at my work place. :D

No apology necessary. Just havin' fun! :beers:

No apology necessary. Just havin' fun! :beers: U-DA-MAN. Now go get that hair permed!!!!

Some of you seem to spend a whole lot of time thinking about what other men are doing

Not that there's anything wrong with that ;)

Some of you seem to spend a whole lot of time thinking about what other men are doing

Not that there's anything wrong with that ;)Uhmm, does this mean that our date is off for friday night? Crap! Now I'll just have to sit home and listen to the Go-Go's all by myself!

Uhmm, does this mean that our date is off for friday night? Crap! Now I'll just have to sit home and listen to the Go-Go's all by myself!

Depends - you gonna get your nails done?

Depends - you gonna get your nails done?LOL!!!! This is gettin 2 weird. :D

"gettin"

"gettin"Yeah, that was an understatement on my part, eh? :D

Dang it I forgot my --->:D

Some of you seem to spend a whole lot of time thinking about what other men are doing

Not that there's anything wrong with that ;)

Not me. I only think about what you are doing. well, now im starting to work Billy into my mix but your still primary. :D

I totally forgot number 4. Automatics! Nothing says I smoke pole like getting into an automatic. If I had $1 for every automatic driver I knew that was effeminate, I'd be rich. I promise you all those barbie talking puffers were driving an automatic. Great googly moogly!

If you ain't shiftin' it, you ain't a man. Right? Who's with me?

l:) :D Now THERE is a bandwagon I can jump on.

BillyG - did they really drop the car conversation in favour of a barbies for a good while?? I think they may be just pulling your chain and seeing how far they can get you wound up...

Unless they drive pink chevettes, then you are right. :D

BillyG - did they really drop the car conversation in favour of a barbies for a good while?? I think they may be just pulling your chain and seeing how far they can get you wound up...

Unless they drive pink chevettes, then you are right. :DThat's what I thought too at first, but I showed absolutley no emoition nor was paying any attention to their queer conversation since I was just a bit relieved that they changed the subject, and I didn't have to hear them bash guys who are into building old muscle cars again. But then a couple minutes later when my attention was turned to them again, I noticed that they were still talking about the barbie doll market like they were all into it, and none of them were even looking at me to watch my reaction (which would've made it obvious that they were just yanking my chain).

The guy that started the barbie conversation just happened to be that same guy who was pulled over a few years ago by the local PD on Halloween night dressed in drag, who's also the same guy who has bragged about attending Cher concerts with his wife, and who also has music CD's in his tool drawer by Tammy Wynette, the Go-Go's, and a whole host of chick groups (I've seen them for myself one day when he wasn't near his bench, and he had left his tool drawer wide open).

The guy has a pretty wife, and three kids of his own, so I wouldn't say he's gay, but he's just a metro. Just plain wierd. But when he began the barbie conversation, stating that some barbie dolls are worth more $$ than old muscle cars are, then the rest of the other 3 showed interest and engaged in conversation about it. It's almost as if their wives won't let them spend $$ for things like old muscle cars, so they try to ease their frustrations that come from the fact that they're all whipped, by talking about things other than cars that are worth a lot of $$ even if those things are girl stuff.

Originally Posted by jeffc
I totally forgot number 4. Automatics! Nothing says I smoke pole like getting into an automatic. If I had $1 for every automatic driver I knew that was effeminate, I'd be rich. I promise you all those barbie talking puffers were driving an automatic. Great googly moogly!

If you ain't shiftin' it, you ain't a man. Right? Who's with me?


+2 on the bandwagon for manual,see my toys in my signature,nothing but manual shifters.i wont have it any other way.
great thread!!!
Barbiesl:)l:)l:)
never mind about guys into barbies, i have a lot of friends that have to get permission to go cruising from the wife,those guys have an over sized barbie that have a whip,if you know what i mean !!! l:)

I always heard Ken ran off with G.I. Joe , after reading this thread no wonder.

I have been waiting for the chance to post on this thread.

Does this have to be in Bench Racing? I could get rather politically incorrect here :yes:.

Where do I start? So many complaints, so many rants, so many vents, so little time.

Ofcourse it is. That isn't what I meant by showing women respect. I show kindness to women of ALL ages, and regardless of their weight or appearence. Just as I do to most other people. I saw an elderly handicapped guy who works where I do, struggling with some heavy aircraft parts on a cart. Machinists were just walking right by him, and not caring about how much he was struggling. This guy is also a war veteran.

So I walked up and asked him where it was that he needed those parts to be at, and after he told me, I placed them where he needed them to go. To me, it's no big deal. It only took me about 30 seconds. But I was kinda aggrivated with my other co-workers who where walking by him, and ignoring his struggle. There were actually some guys just sitting down doing absolutley nothing, and staring at the guy too. But they wouldn't get off their butt to ask him if he needed help, just because he gets paid the same rate as they do.

That's the type of respect (or lack thereof ) that I was talking about. Not being nice to a woman while on a date, just to hopefully get in her pants later on that evening. If that's what you thought I meant, then you have me ALL wrong.




I am shocked at how terrible and careless socety has become. Many people pass someone up when they need a hand. I'll help if I have the chance (though helping some kids fixing their bikes backfired a couple years ago, no longer do that anymore. Stolen tools and everything :mad:). The fact that they passed up a Veteran just ticks me off.

I blame two major causes for this.....

1. In general, each generation has it a little financially better off than their parents. I have a better job than my dad did... When I turned 16, I had to drive a POS!!! If it wasnt for that, I may have never learn to spin a wrench!!! My dad was NOT into hot-rodding, but he had tools and knew how to fix things BECAUSE HE HAD TO!
Now days parents just provide a nice car for their kids and thier idea of hot-rodding has to do with stopping by PEP BOYS!!!

2. If boys grow up with NO male influence in thier lives, how do you expect them to become men???

It is not WOMENS fault... they are 1/2 of the balance.... it takes BOTH!!!

Just my opinion....

Yes, it does take both.

Now, if kids are GIVEN THEIR CAR, then they will not treasure it as much or take care of it as much. If they had EARNED IT then they would maitain it, keep it clean, drive decently in it, all because they would know what actually goes into actually buying a car yourself. As for "In general, each generation has it a little financially better off than their parents". I disagree, my dad got a job picking peepers at a farm when he was 14 or 15. Me? Closest thing I have is five nights a year at a highschool home football game. I get around $100 a year, when they make it to the playoffs, it is an extra $15.00. All my other money comes from going to garage/yard/estate sales and buying things of value cheap and reselling them and scrap metal (which is unhealthy right now).

I blame it on Michael Jackson. l:)

I blame it on Michael Jackson. l:)

Nice to see someone else get the blame for a change.:yes:

Yes, it does take both.

Now, if kids are GIVEN THEIR CAR, then they will not treasure it as much or take care of it as much. If they had EARNED IT then they would maitain it, keep it clean, drive decently in it, all because they would know what actually goes into actually buying a car yourself. As for "In general, each generation has it a little financially better off than their parents". I disagree, my dad got a job picking peepers at a farm when he was 14 or 15. Me? Closest thing I have is five nights a year at a highschool home football game. I get around $100 a year, when they make it to the playoffs, it is an extra $15.00. All my other money comes from going to garage/yard/estate sales and buying things of value cheap and reselling them and scrap metal (which is unhealthy right now).

This will be the first generation that has digressed, unlike every other generation (not necessarily every person). My great grandpa (no highschool) was a farm hand, my grandpa (highschool drop out) owned a farm and my dad (highschool drop out-military-GED-associate in arts)worked for the count cooperative extension doing experimental farming, and all of my brothers (bachelors and one masters) were professionals. The one that that has stayed a constant is the fact that we have all been able to fix, repair, hunt, fish, and farm... this is where our country has gone kind of arye we are a throwaway society which supports the chinese crap.... anyhow.. i see this post finding its way to Current Events...

Barbiesl:)l:)l:)
never mind about guys into barbies, i have a lot of friends that have to get permission to go cruising from the wife,those guys have an over sized barbie that have a whip,if you know what i mean !!! l:)Yes, I know exactly what you mean! I have had some buddies like that. One of my present buddies is like that, and another one and I just went our separate ways since his wifey really didn't like him ever hangin out with anyone like me who isn't also whipped like he is. Afetr all, the better he gets to know other guys who aren't whipped like he is, then the more of a chance there will be that he might come to his senses and begin to put his foot down. And she couldn't take the risk of that happening. I blame the guy. It's his fault for allowing his wife to control him like he's one of her 6 year old sons.

I am shocked at how terrible and careless socety has become. Many people pass someone up when they need a hand. I'll help if I have the chance (though helping some kids fixing their bikes backfired a couple years ago, no longer do that anymore. Stolen tools and everything :mad:). The fact that they passed up a Veteran just ticks me off. Yes, it's really pathetic, and I believe has a lot to do with peoples' pure selfishness, lack of respect for others, and being unthankful in general.

I blame it on Michael Jackson. l:)LOL!!!

The fact that they passed up a Veteran just ticks me off.

If he hadn't been a veteran you'd be okay with it?

If he hadn't been a veteran you'd be okay with it? thats what i thought, regardless if a person was a veteran or not ,anyboby with a a disabilty should be helped out, what does it cost to help somebody,

Just wait about 20 years when all the kids (that survive) that are now being raised by grandmothers and single mothers grow up.
Around here, a lot of the teenagers now are packing and killing each other every night.
:(

Dean, how many murders do you see on the news in Overland Park. Looks like its pretty steady... 2 murders every year since 2002. murders were cut in half from 2004-2007 from high of 46 to only 20 in 2007. unless they are slow murders.:D.heheheheh one a night?:cool:



http://www.city-data.com/city/Overland-Park-Kansas.html

Dean, how many murders do you see on the news in Overland Park. Looks like its pretty steady... 2 murders every year since 2002. murders were cut in half from 2004-2007 from high of 46 to only 20 in 2007. unless they are slow murders.:D.heheheheh one a night?:cool:



http://www.city-data.com/city/Overland-Park-Kansas.html

Yeah, Dean....we could take you over to Winton / Atwater and show you what a real gangster shootout looks like. :D

My grandmother lives in Winton (birthplace of Charles Manson, BTW). Been there for 30+ years. All the old folks on her street wont go out for walks at night anymore. Damn shame. But I think they all have dads and non of them wear skirts. They seem to prefer bandanas, huge pants and guns......truth be told - I think they ARE the dads.

I have to get my grandmother out of there before I end up explaining a shooting to PD.

Dean, how many murders do you see on the news in Overland Park. Looks like its pretty steady... 2 murders every year since 2002. murders were cut in half from 2004-2007 from high of 46 to only 20 in 2007. unless they are slow murders.:D.heheheheh one a night?:cool:



http://www.city-data.com/city/Overland-Park-Kansas.html

Overland Park hasn't been too bad YET but I live about 10 minutes from Kansas City MO and 4 minuets from Kansas City Kansas where the thugs come out at night.

I have seen overland park and Kansas city on the show "The first 48" quite a few times. Guess you have to figure that a show about solving murders being in your town must have a topic so.....

That show wont come to SF or Oakland because you need to be able to actually solve a case and prosecute so thats a plus. Atleast in Kansas they can apparently solve and prosecute. Score one for Deans neck of the woods. :D

http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1547750.html

If he hadn't been a veteran you'd be okay with it?Until he responds, I'll offer my rsponse to that below, since I was the one who originally brought it up.....

thats what i thought, regardless if a person was a veteran or not ,anyboby with a a disabilty should be helped out, what does it cost to help somebody, My response to that is this....I agree with both of you that we should treat others with respect whether they're a war veteran or not. However, the fact that this guy that I was talking about it a vet, is handicapped, and obviously had to sacrifice is own well being and his own able-bodiness for his country which we live in, makes it more of an outrage that most of his present fellow co-workers will actually sit there on their behinds and watch him struggling when they're sometimes merely 20 or 30 feet away from him, or even walking right by him.

I can garantee you that if any of these same co-workers saw a nice looking woman struggling like that, they would be lining up to run over there to lend her a hand, just because they like gawking at her. But if it's an elderly woman, or a handicapped man (war vet or not) they cannot be bothered with them, even at a moment when they're doing nothing else but sitting there watching them struggle. s far as I'm concerned, guys like that are punks regardless of what age they are.

Just wait about 20 years when all the kids (that survive) that are now being raised by grandmothers and single mothers grow up.
:( Yes, I agree. You're beginning to see signs of that already. I work with one of those, and the increased level of his lack of respect for others is very obvious. And for those of you with some prejudice, let me add that he is a white middle class individual too.

understand you man and i agree totally with what you are saying, its a very sad world indeed when somebody with a disability dont get a helping hand, as you say if it was a good looking girl it would be a different story. respect costs nothing. something happened outside my job today that got all of us in a fighting form. i know that aint an answer to things but this freaked us out. there is a young romanian girl about 17 or 18 years old that sits outside our building, she has a very young baby and sits there with an empty coffee cup begging, now some brave bast**d of a man :mad:gave her a filthy black eye and a kick in the ribs, no one likes to see anybody begging or in a bad state but this girl didnt deserve this treatment, i hope this brave bast**d gets whats coming to him. :(. sorry for going off thread. just felt i had to get that off my chest.. it does fall into respect and dignity for others.

understand you man and i agree totally with what you are saying, its a very sad world indeed when somebody with a disability dont get a helping hand, as you say if it was a good looking girl it would be a different story. respect costs nothing. something happened outside my job today that got all of us in a fighting form. i know that aint an answer to things but this freaked us out. there is a young romanian girl about 17 or 18 years old that sits outside our building, she has a very young baby and sits there with an empty coffee cup begging, now some brave bast**d of a man :mad:gave her a filthy black eye and a kick in the ribs, no one likes to see anybody begging or in a bad state but this girl didnt deserve this treatment, i hope this brave bast**d gets whats coming to him. :(. sorry for going off thread. just felt i had to get that off my chest.. it does fall into respect and dignity for others.

I think that veteran should have been helped, regardless if he was a veteran or not. Now that we hav e that cleared up...

I think you should have rewarded that horrid man with this great gift below:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f69/lynushee/noose.jpg