Hey guys, I have a 1970 El Camino with a mild 350 small block, maybe about 275 hp. The car has a TH350 but I love standard transmissions and would love to have a manual tranny in my car. I can't afford a tremecor muncie or anything like that. What I can afford though is something like a Saginaw.

I've done a bit of reading amd as I'm sure you can guess, I'm doubting if it would hold up at all. :confused:

It is a daily driven car and for the most part isjust cruised. But well.. I'm 18 and want to row through some gears:yes::D

So I'm wondering what your opinons are? would it last? Is it a hard swap to do or do I have to shorten my driveshaft?

For the price I've seen on Saginaw's compared to Muncies, I could blow up two of them and still be in less money than if i went with a muncie;)

If you run skinney hard tires you may be OK. I had a 275HP 327 in my '66 Nova SS. and even with F70-15 Goodyear Polyglas I broke more than 1 Saginaw before I switched to a Muncie.

On the back I have P275/ 50R 15 BFG Radial T/A's and I will likely stay with a tire that size. How long did your Saginaw's run before they broke?

Mabe up it to an 80's ST-10 at least? I run about 325hp with a 3:08 rear gear on a St-10 out of an 81 Z28. I have 27560 15's on the back. I beat on it pretty good now and then and I know my boys do whenever they borrow it. It has held up without a problem almost 3 years.
But years ago I beat hard on the old saginaws too and only broke one! I figure I was just lucky and didn't have as much HP as I let myself believe!:D

Also, how much money realistically is it to do a swap like this assuming I dont need driveshaft modifications, with clutch, z-bar, pedal assembly, etc?

The driveshaft will not have to be modified, it will fit as is. I have blown up several Saginaw 4 speeds, I would maybe try the 80s Camaro/S10 5 speed they seem to hold up a little better. If you can find a doner car for the pedals and linkages you will be way ahead money wise .

You'd be miles ahead to save your nickels and dimes and just buy a Muncie or an aftermarket transmission in the first place. Why spend a little money now on something you'll end up replacing again in the not too distant future? If it is good, reliable transportation as it is, just continue to drive it as is while you collect all the parts.

-Z-bar: $50-$100
-flywheel - $200-$300 (do NOT go cheap on the flywheel!)
-clutch - $150-$450
-pedals - $50-$150
-linkages/brackets - $0-$100
-transmission mount - $15-$35
-shifter - $100-$450
-floor mods - $0-$100
-bellhousing - $25-$50
-throwout bearing - $25-$50
-pilot bearing - $5-$10
-clutch fork - $5-$25
-transmission bolts, pressure plate bolts, clutch fork boot, firewall clutch rod boot, other misc. - $50-$125
-transmission - ????? depends on what you buy and if it needs any work

Keep in mind that the shifter you buy for that Saginaw won't work on a Muncie, so if you graduate up to a different transmission in the future you'll also need to buy a new shifter.

Oh okay, thanks guys, when you put it that way it does seem pretty dumb lol, hmm.. i'll keep looking for that 4 speed then

spend the money once and do it right imo.

if you still want cheap overdrive find a local scrapyard and go often. If there are ever any 5.0 Mustangs take out the T5 (make sure it is world class so 87 and after). Its got overdrive too. If you end up not being able to afford the adaptive bellhousing then sell it to those mustang purists for 500$

I was in the same boat you were Steve. I wasn't even really looking for one but one day over summer I found a muncie for 300 bucks on craigslist and jumped on it. Then I found an old hurst competition plus on craigslist for 55 bucks that came with all the linkages.

If you take your time you can pull it all together relatively cheap. This winter I am trying to put the Muncie in and pull the TH350 that is in my el camino. I will try to tally up totals on everything and give you an estimate of what I ended up spending.

Matt

That would be awesome, I'd really like to have a standard tranny. That T5 isnt even a bad idea.

Well your about in the same situation with the T5 ,it too was used in low HP vehicles.
Here's the current T5 specs:
http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/T-5.asp
Now the T56 is a different story -spec's:
http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/T-56.asp
But your also getting up in the $$$$'s for conversion.
The Muncie ,as it was the stock tran's, will probably be the most cost effective.

Yeah I see what you mean, highest torque rating on the T5 is only 300 lbs-ft. Even my mild 350 would be pushing that and driving it hard would most likely push past the limits of the T5. The T56 would be awesome, it just isnt in my budget.

Does anyone have any experience with the 5 sped standard that came in some of the mid- late 90's 1500 chevy trucks, I think it was the NV4500?

NV4500 or NV 3500 ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Venture_Gear_3500_transmission
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Venture_Gear_4500_transmission

i had some sag 4 spds, back in the day they were cheap, if you did a couple mods to them they were ok-i remember there was a wavy shim we replaced, really helped
some of the 6 cyl cars has a lower 1st gear
you can blow up a muncie also, lol

Mabe up it to an 80's ST-10 at least

I'd definitely look into the super T10 if I was in your place. (Actually, I pretty much went this route on my '69 camaro, but I already had the Super T10... :) )

The Super T10 is NOT the strongest trans in the world, but they're not exactly fragile either. For a 275 Hp 350, I'd think it'll play along just fine. Plus, if you do kill it, many of the parts (bellhousing, clutch pedals, clutch, etc.) you'd end up buying to put in the ST10 could be re-used if you go with a Muncie or a TKO. (I moved to a TKO600 and kept the whole clutch setup, bellhousing, etc. from the ST10).

Good ST10 info here:
http://fiedlerh.home.att.net/BW.htm

Note that there are several ratio sets available and the "super wide ratio" (with 3.42 1st gear) is the weakest, so if you can find one, I'd probably look for a 2.88 ratio set or so.

Thanks a lot, I think an ST10 is probably the best way to go for me.

I've had nothing but saginaw's in my 69 since I was 16. Only on my 3rd unit 28 years later. 430hp 396 with 373 rear.

just keep a eye on craigslist every day. check the areas around too. If you see hotrod parts advertised, email and ask nicely if they have any other parts available. You'd be surprised at the stuff people have. I emailed a guy on some 69 chevelle parts he was advertising. I originally was going to check out a SS hood, I casually asked about any other parts, I was told a 12 bolt limited slip for $300, a muncie wide ratio for $600. I go and look at the hood, and since I was there anyway, checked out the wide ratio tranny, turns out the $600 wide ratio was a 1970 M21 with a console hurst comp+ shifter. the whole clutch changeover with the reverse lock out, a rare '66 only 444 bell housing, and flywheel. I thought it turned out to be a pretty good deal. One thing you want to remember though. HAVE CASH available. These deals do not wait around for you to go to your atm, etc. When these deals pop up, its usually the first to answer the ad will get the first crack at it if you show up quickly. Theres too many people looking for the same part. jim