Hey guys, I have about reached the point to narrow a 12 bolt to fit an 8" wheel on my 65 Chevelle and not have to buy a 5.5" BS wheels.

Right now I am aiming at buying some ChevyII axles and narrow a wide rear to be about 2" narrower than the factory 65 width.

I am not ever planning to install a roll bar in the car, but very well could play with 11 second times in future years. The car is a 4 speed and totally street driven with typical 3000 or more miles per year.

I run an Eaton Posi with a 3.08 gear, but swapping out to 3.73 a few months out the year is not out the question for some track runs.

I am not scared to race the car either, so it could make 30 or more passes in a years time.

A few questions to guys that work with axles and "C" clip eliminators a good bit:

1. Is there a vendor that builds a 65-67 length ChevyII axle that are priced well and fairly strong? Cheaper than the Summit - Jegs Moser axles?

2. I am not oppesed to "C" clip eliminator axles for the strength, but will they last many years before problems?

-Bobby-

Bobby,
If you are narrowing a rear, use Ford ends and Moser axles.

Having narrowed a few rears, to go 2" narrower than a stock 65 width will affect the shock mount. So it will need to be relocated.

I do not recomend any c clip elimators. Tom

Tom,

Yes the shock mount will be moved directly behind the control arm and thus creating a need for a shorter shock.

Now why do you say to use the Ford ends? Is it the bearing size that is better? Or does the Ford bearing allow for the axle end to be a larger diameter?

I was debating to go with the Moser replacement axles for a Chevy II that are 1 1/16 shorter, basically a direct bolt in to save a few dollars over the custom axles.
Is the Ford ends and bearings that much better design?

Thanks

-Bobby-

The ford end allows the use of Pressed on Ford type bearings which were designed for daily use. They seem to be more reliable than c-clip eliminators from the leak perspective. I myself used c-clip eliminators and have never had a problem, street or strip.

OK, so the Ford ends will allow the removal of the "C" clips in the housing, yet use a standard bearing at the axle flange. Best of both worlds?

This is where I am ignorant, I have only used GM rear with "C" clip eliminator in drag applications. How do the Ford bearings bolt on, or hold the axle in place to the housing? Is it captured with a plate? Or are they designed much like the bolt on "C" clip eliminators?

-Bobby-

C clip eliminators are not designed for street use. The bearing is too small and will not handle side loads from cornering as well as other designs. They also tend to leak oil onto the brakes. The press on Ford axle bearigns are much larger and will work much better. They will also eliminate the c clips. You can use the stock Chevy drum brakes if you make good measurements and get the right parts. I've done this many times and it works very well. You will need a housing fixture to hold everything in line when welding on the new housing ends. The Ford axle bearings and the parts that go with them are a little more expensive than going the other way, but it is well worth it.
http://thumb7.webshots.net/t/57/657/1/1/3/2974101030041712107jPqQbL_th.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2974101030041712107jPqQbL)http://thumb7.webshots.net/t/53/653/3/41/39/2007341390041712107jgsXmv_th.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2007341390041712107jgsXmv)

Thanks guys,

I have a 9" Ford rear I got to use in a future street rod project, I guess I will have to pull that apart and see how everything works and holds together.

Sounds like I should have done my Race Car rear this way many year ago!

-Bobby-

Hey guys, I have about reached the point to narrow a 12 bolt to fit an 8" wheel on my 65 Chevelle and not have to buy a 5.5" BS wheels.

Right now I am aiming at buying some ChevyII axles and narrow a wide rear to be about 2" narrower than the factory 65 width.

I am not ever planning to install a roll bar in the car, but very well could play with 11 second times in future years. The car is a 4 speed and totally street driven with typical 3000 or more miles per year.

I run an Eaton Posi with a 3.08 gear, but swapping out to 3.73 a few months out the year is not out the question for some track runs.

I am not scared to race the car either, so it could make 30 or more passes in a years time.

A few questions to guys that work with axles and "C" clip eliminators a good bit:

1. Is there a vendor that builds a 65-67 length ChevyII axle that are priced well and fairly strong? Cheaper than the Summit - Jegs Moser axles?

2. I am not oppesed to "C" clip eliminator axles for the strength, but will they last many years before problems?

-Bobby-

I narrowed my rear and used 65-67 chevy II c- clips axles from Tomīs differentials think they costed me 215$(5 years ago). Had to reverse the shock mounts.

If you use 8" wide rims 3.75" backspace should work with same rearend widht as 65-67 Chevy II(28.5" long axles). I have 8 3/4" wide rims with almost 4" backspace for my street tires and 8" wide rims with 3.75" bacspace and 27/10.5-15 et streets for strip use

Last winter I upgraded to ford style ends and 33 splines axles.

First rebuild

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/12bult/Mongo156.jpg

Second time with ford ends. Wish I had built it this way from the beginning.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/12bult/IMG_2893.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/12bult/IMG_2894.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/12bult/IMG_2895.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/12bult/IMG_2898.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/12bult/IMG_2899.jpg

Ok, one last question for the knowledgable, if I were to buy standard replacement axles now to narrow the rear and keep the "C" clips, can I use the same axles and add the Ford ends at a later date?

Basically will the stock GM axles work to press the Ford bearings in place? Or would I have to buy custom axles to match the size of the Ford bearings?

-Bobby-

The axles must be made to fit the Ford bearings. They also must be made to fit the brakes that you will be using. This is one of those times when you need to go ahead and spend the money to do it right the first time and have it over with. Don't try to cut corners with the rear end. If an engine blows you can coast to the side and stop. If the rear end comes apart you might be in big trouble.

Don't mean to hijack the thread,but I have c clip eliminators on my Elky and there is no room for the parking brake linkage in there.What do the guys that use these do for an E-brake?

They do without.

They do without.

OK now I am going to hyjack this thread...if I may.

I am really going to ask a dumb/simple question. How do I know if I have C-clip eliminators? :confused:

As soon as you said "They do without", I remembered my car does not have the E-brake set up and my car was raced before I bought it. :yes:

Yes you hijacked my thread just as I was learning about the Ford ends! :yes:

To know if you have "C" clip eliminators you can look at the backing plate without the drum, there will be an aluminum block that is actually holding the backing plate in place.
Or you can pull the rear end cover and check where the cross pin is and see if there is any "C" clips, if there is no "C" clips in the carrier you are about to lose an axle or you have "C" clip eliminators. Or Ford ends....


Now back to my scheduled thread! :p

Ok as I was thinking I could narrow my rear about 2 inches for roughly $250 (I have the stuff to narrow the rear and done them before, just not with ford ends)

To narrow the rear with Ford ends I will:

Axles: custom? Price?
Housing ends: $90
bearings: $75
brake backing plates: ? can I redrill my GM?
What else as I missing?

There again, I can do all the fab work myself, so there is no cost there.

$250 I can handle, but adding several hundred more may take a little more saving.

-Bobby-

, just not with ford ends)

brake backing plates: ? can I redrill my GM?
There again, I can do all the fab work myself, so there is no cost there.

$250 I can handle, but adding several hundred more may take a little more saving.

-Bobby-


Moser and others have Ford type ends which your backing plates will bolt right up to - no drilling. The central hole which fits over the housing needs to be increased in diameter though for the Ford ends.

Yes you hijacked my thread just as I was learning about the Ford ends! :yes:

To know if you have "C" clip eliminators you can look at the backing plate without the drum, there will be an aluminum block that is actually holding the backing plate in place.
Or you can pull the rear end cover and check where the cross pin is and see if there is any "C" clips, if there is no "C" clips in the carrier you are about to lose an axle or you have "C" clip eliminators. Or Ford ends....


-Bobby-


Bobby, thanks for the info.

BTW I just figured I was helping you keep your thread at the top! :D

Kurt

Kurt,

Not a problem. I know I have learned a bunch on all this Ford end stuff.

I have a Drag car with "C" clip eliminators and done several through the years with "C" clip eliminators, I should have done it different all along.

-Bobby-

Use the Moser housing ends that take the Chevy brakes and Ford bearings.You will have to bore the hole in the backing plate to 3.155 inches so that it will fit over the bearing. That is the only modification needed for the brakes. The Moser axles with bearings, studs and retainers are $445 a set (may be a little cheaper if you go through the right dealer ;) ). The housing ends are $90. That is the total cost for the parts. Be sure that you get the axles made for the Chevy brakes and not Ford brakes. The amount of axle hang out is different between them.

Moser and others have Ford type ends which your backing plates will bolt right up to - no drilling. The central hole which fits over the housing needs to be increased in diameter though for the Ford ends.

Ok, that makes sense.

So I need the axles, Ford end with GM backing plate pattern, bearings, and the bearing retainers. That's not too bad overall to get a solid rear the axles will not side out of.

Thanks guys for everything!:thumbsup:

-Bobby-

So what have you decided to do?

To be dead honest, right now I am totally undecided!

This is my street car and cruiser, (I have a 9 second bracket car to go fast)
I will drive it anywhere and for date correct 327 and Muncie and 3.08 gear, the car will run mid 13's and get 19mpg on the way to the track.

So I need to decide on building the rear to handle a bunch more power that realisticly it will probably never see, or rely on what GM designed years ago that will work fine with typical 12 second ET's.

Either way I have learned a good bit to apply to future projects down the road.

Is there any adverse affect of the ford ends and bearings running a bunch of street miles?

If I do the ford ends I need to get a pretty firm price, to do the conversion so I will know what I will be spending.

-Bobby-

I can get you an accurate price on the parts. As far as the bearings holding up on the street, Ford cars and trucks have run milions of miles on them with no problems. They wear out just like any other bearing will, but only after a few hundred thousand miles. Send email if you need prices biggearhead@bellsouth.net

What type of welding rod did you use? How high a preheat on the cast? Im about to weld mine up and figured i would TIG them with NiRod on Inconel and heat the hell out of the cast side and insulate it when cooling down from welding to insure no cracking appears in the cast side. Cast doesnt weld very well in any scenario is the reason for my question. Thanks

Preheat to 500 degrees. Use N99 rod, which is 99% nickel.