Does this rag joint disasemble? I need that collar but I can't figure this out?

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/jmhardin/rag_joint.jpg

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/jmhardin/rage_joint_2.jpg

bump

bump - come on, somebody knows this. Do these studs unscrew or do you drill them out or what? :(

You can buy rebuild kits for the rag joints at your local auto parts store in the HELP section, I was going to buy one until I found an original in good shape, but to answer your question they need to have the heads drilled or ground off, the new studs in the rebuild kit are threaded and accept a nut on the side where the flat heads that need ground off, if you look at the kit, it is self explanatory how they go on, looks like a very simple deal.they are about 10 dollars for the rebuild kit.


Rocky

Perfect timing, I have the exact same rag joint problem... brought it in to work today to see what the heck I had to do to get the new rag on the union. Looks like I have to goto the machine shop and have them grind it off. graemlins/clonk.gif

so I am guessing these studs are pressed on? Correct?

I belive that thay were put on like a rivit, the stud was put in and a machine flattened the head, and that what held them in place, from what I understand you just need to grind the head off, and take a punch and it will come right out.


Rocky

Ok, I couldn't take it, I just went out to the garage and took my Dewalt hand grinder and carefully ground the head off flush, I then locked the stud end in my vise and gave it a twist and it came right out. so the rebuild kit I was talking about should work great, it has the new studs and the new rag in the kit. hope this helps.


Rocky

that didn't take long. graemlins/hurray.gif

do you have the kit yet? Does it include that tie strip you see in my picture. I think it has something to do with the grounding of the horn.

You need to reuse the strip, thats exactly whats it's for, the horn. It's what grounds one side of the rag joint to the other, other folks who have broken this piece used a wire.


Rocky

I have never liked the "bolt together" replacement couplings that are sold in auto shops. First of all, if you look at your original rubber laminated disc, you will see that the manual steering disc has 7 laminations of cotton cloth and neoprene rubber. Power steering coupling discs were the same thickness but only had 4 laminations of cloth and rubber.

The 7 laminate disc was considerably stiffer than the 4 ply disc. This gave somewhat better road feel. The 4 ply disc isolated power steering noise better than the 7 ply disc.

The reason Saginaw Steering hot riveted the stop pins to the steering gear flange was because you are steering your car through that connection. You will note that you have to grind the heads off and then punch the stop pin out of its seat. This was the most failsafe and secure method of attaching the parts that they could come up with.

You will note that the bolt together parts do have shoulders on the stop pins and the clamp bolts. This is so that you always have a metal to metal connection. NEVER try and bolt the rubber disc together with common nuts and bolts.

What size gear input shaft does this flange clamp to? Early manual gears (before 1970) had 3/4 input shafts without a flat. Later manual gear were 3/4 with a flat. Power steering gears until 1977 were 13/16 with a flat.

Let me know what gear you have in your car and maybe I can find a production flexible coupling that will fit.

Thanks for the reply. Mine does not need replacing because of wear. I want it to look better, like new. If I could get it apart, I could clean the metal better. I see what you mean about the 7 ply vs the 4 ply. Will measure mine later. Its on a 67 chevelle that never had power stearing, always manual. I want it to look original too.

There is a GM service part 7806391 that is still available. It is pricey but it has a 7 ply coupling disc and a 3/4 full round serration flange. So it will bolt right in. It does not have the copper ground strap because the strap was superceded by molded-in metal screening on one face of the coupling disc. The screen conducts electrical grounding current for the horn from the column to the gear.

You won't be able to reuse your ground strap because it is sandwiched underneath one of the riveted stop pins.

Also, someone that really knows their parts can run their finger along the edge of a screen-ground coupling and feel the rough edges of the screen. They would know that you have a modern service part rather than NOS.

my shaft is 3/4. What do you mean with/without flat. The shaft is round. How much is pricey?

Local GM said $58. Sound right?

Just to put my 2 cents worth in I wanted to mention that I've seen many of these rag joints installed incorrectly on otherwise cool cars. The pins MUST be situated completely within the slot so that if the "rag" fails the pins will take the load. You would feel some slop in the steering but it would get you home. I think the column is adjustable up and down to suit each car.

The input shaft on the manual gear was originally 3/4 inch diameter with 30 serrations all the way around. This input shaft was used up until sometime in 1969. After that time they still had serrations but there was a flat milled on one side of the input shaft and the flexible coupling flange was changed to add a corresponding mating flat. The new coupling with the flat will not attach to the old gears with the "full round" input shaft.

The flat aided the assembly plants in attaching the flexible coupling to the gear quickly and in only one orientation.

Uh oh. Does that mean I am in trouble if I did not mark exactly where the thing came off?

Not really, with the full round input shaft when you assemble the flexible coupling to it, you will find that in order for you to install and tighten the pinch bolt, it has to pass through a notch that is machined into the input shaft.

You may have just one or two (or at most three) possible serrations that you can slip your flexible coupling flange onto. After that, you will find that the pinch bolt won't pass through the notch.

I guess I don't understand. The round shaft has a full round notch and it seems the coupler would go on at any orentation. I may just be completely confused here. My car is a 67 manual steering.

I guess that I am wrong on this one. :eek: If you have full round serrations with what we called an annular groove rather than a notch, then you will be able to install the coupling in any orientation.

I was pretty sure that the notch went with full serrations and the annular groove went with the serrations with the flat. But if your gear is original, then I am wrong.

This is the orientation of the 1970 Corvette manual gear and flexible coupling: With the gear right on the center of travel, and looking straight at the input shaft of the gear, the flexible coupling should be installed so that the large attaching bolt 3/8-24 is at the 9 o'clock position (the small bolt 5/16-24 at 3 o'clock) and the attaching pinch bolt will be straight up and down driven from the top and on the left side of the input shaft.

I am reasonably sure that all the GM manual and power steering gears had the flexible coupling orientation the same with the gear right on center because they all attached to the same Saginaw steering columns.

Hope this gets your flex coupling installed correctly.

Jim Shea

So, I can put it on in any position, correct?

What you described is for a corvette and not what I will do.

And, will the part number you gave me eariler still Work?

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/jmhardin/input_shaft.jpg

The part number should still be valid. Also the orientation of the Corvette flex coupling should be common to the rest of GM. I am quite sure that the orientation that I described should be valid for your A-car with manual steering.

If the orientation is not correct, you really haven't lost much. You do want your steering gear to be right on center as you are driving straight down the road. There is a "delash" high spot right on center that you want to make your steering feel good as you drive down the road.

thanks JIML82. With my rag joint off, I can find this center simply putting the wheels straight forward?

I am looking for some slack in the middle on the shaft?

You should rotate your steering gear all the way from full lock to full lock while counting the total number of turns and part turns. (With the gear in the car, take a piece of chalk and mark the shaft so you can easily count the turns.) Now rotate the gear from full lock to exactly 1/2 the number of lock to lock turns. This will put your gear right on center. I would mark the input shaft at this time so you know when the gear is positioned on center from now on.

Your car should drive straight ahead at this time. If it doesn't you should adjust your tie rods to get the car to travel straight. Remember, adjust both the right and left tie rods in the same direction and exactly the same number of turns. This will keep your front end toe adjustment from changing.

With the gear on center, now install the flexible coupling so that big 3/8-24 bolt is at the 9 o'clock position as I mentioned earlier.

ok, now I ought to be able to do it. Thanks for staying with me on this.