Hi guys, I'm excited to be here and start the restoration of my car. This place truly is awesome. I used the search feature and figured out how to pull off the plastic backs off my buckets in seconds, I was always afraid I may break something so I never took them off to look for the build sheet. No luck on the build sheet yet, but the information here is incredible!

So, I have two questions. First one being I have found that my dream chevelle would be a 69 ss convertible. Did they make any convertibles that were L-78's or L89's? If so, how hard would this be to find and what should a guy expect to pay for a car that needs a full restoration.

Second question, John was nice enough to give me a break down on my cowl tag, but what do the bottom two sets of numbers mean along with the B80?

Here is how my cowl tag reads:

ST 69-13637 BF 04199 BDY
TR 788 B80 52 52 PNT
10B 035256 400212


Thanks guys!

Hi Scott! Long time no talk :D. The last two sets of numbers are just tracking numbers. They don't mean anything as of yet. As far as your values are concered, there will be some knowledgable people around shortly.

So Ryan, do ya got a crappy 69 convertible L89 car sitting in your back yard for me? :)

Haha! I sure as heck wish I did!

Hi Scott. The exact numbers of models with certain engines is just not known. There are a few "guesstimates" out there. The L78 convertibles were probably just over 200, while the L89 convertibles were probably under 10.

Very difficult to give estimates on "hypothetical" cars needing restoration so I won't input on that one. However, I will give you my opinion on quality, fully restored cars with "born with" drivetrains:

L78 - low to mid/low $100K range.
L89 - Mid/high to high $100K range (possibly higher?)

Just my two cents worth.

Hope this helps.

There you go Scott, now get to work :D;)

There you go Scott, now get to work :D;)

Awesome! I guess I may need to pick up another job...or two...or three.


:clonk:

Don,

You're the man! You were spot on on your guesses. I found 3 L78 cars and all 3 were right at 100,000. Then I found a L89 car for sale for 190,000. Only 3 were made with 4 speeds supposedly. I didn't find out how many automatics were made as I did not find any for sale. Wow, I would have never guessed those cars to bring that kind of money. So much for that idea of owning one. Even if I did I'd be afraid to drive it because of the value. I think I'll settle for a fake. :)

B80 - Roof Drip Molding option code
035256 400212 - Data Processing Sequence Number
It would be located in Box 24 on the Build Sheet and was placed on the tag for aide in identification of the body to the final assembly line.

Don,

You're the man! You were spot on on your guesses. I found 3 L78 cars and all 3 were right at 100,000. Then I found a L89 car for sale for 190,000. Only 3 were made with 4 speeds supposedly. I didn't find out how many automatics were made as I did not find any for sale. Wow, I would have never guessed those cars to bring that kind of money. So much for that idea of owning one. Even if I did I'd be afraid to drive it because of the value. I think I'll settle for a fake. :)

As don noted there is no way to really know how many of any year were made with a specific engine and/or transmission, only probability of distribution. There are known numbers of L78 engine sold, L89 options sold, M21 or M22 transmissions sold, Th400s sold, etc. but Chevrolet did not break them down by body style, color, interior type or anything else.

Suppose we take the 1969 model year L78 and L89. There were 9,486 L78 engines sold for Chevelles in 1969 and 400 L89 aluminum head options (meaning 9,086 L78s with iron heads).

1. There were 5 series/models the engines could have been intalled in:
13427 - 5,620
13437 - 7,181
13637 - 286,162
13667 - 8,443
13680 - 39,000
This gives us a total of 346,406 series/models the L78 was available in.

2. By percentage of the total...
13427 - 1.62%
13437 - 2.07%
13637 - 82.61%
13667 - 2.44%
13680 - 11.26%

An even distribution of the 9,086 iron head L78s can be done by simply multiplying the 9,086 number by the percentage of each series/model it could be ordered in. For example (and numbers rounded down), for convertibles take 2.44% of 9,086 and you get 221 L78 convertibles and 2.44% of 400 L89 options gives you 9. Would there really be 221 L78 convertibles and/or 9 with the L89 option? Wouldn't logic dictate that the higest performace engines be ordered in lighter series/models for a performance edge?

I think most people here, if ordering a new 1969 Chevelle SS396 convertible back in the day, would go more for an easy driving and comfortable car to impress the drive inn crowd and impress the girls. Those looking for the occasional street race, or even dediated racer, would opt for the 13427/37 300 Deluxe series for stealth on the street and better horse power to weight ratio on the strip.

Naturally there are those that go against the "rules" and would get an L89 convertible but I'd put my money on fewer doing that than the statistical distribution would show.

One can do the same with transmissions (or radios, vinyl tops, air conditioning, Positraction, axle ratios, bucket seats, etc.) to get a similar distribution of option to possible series/model availability. A big sticking point occurs when you start combining two or more options to get an answer. Take the transmissions. There were 13,785 M21, 1,276 M22, and 32,031 TH400s sold. More transmissions than L78/L89 options sold so those transmissions must have been available in other body styles and behind other engines as well giving a different quantity of percentages per series/model than the L78/L89.

This is what Dan Carr did with his great 68-72 poster. He used a probability of distribution method to arrive at the numbers in cases like this. He even explains it in the documentation he includes. The problem is many have taken these numbers as fact, probably without reading how the numbers came to be, and as a consequence you'll see an L78 convertible with a 4-speed being advertised as "1 of 8".

First he calculated how many of the SS396 options could be convertibles.
Next he calculated how many of these "could be" SS396 convertibles would get the L78/L89 option.
Then how many of those possibilites would have a 4-speed vs the TH400.

Every time to calculate another possible item to from a calculated possible number, it gets diluted.

Ahhhhhh, I see. Makes sense. If there were a bunch of guys like me ordering these cars new in 69 all of those L89's would have been in convertibles! ;)

B80 - Roof Drip Molding option code
035256 400212 - Data Processing Sequence Number
It would be located in Box 24 on the Build Sheet and was placed on the tag for aide in identification of the body to the final assembly line.

Thanks Mike!