Greetings. My first forum post will be regarding some info I received regarding replacement frames. The street rod boys have had new frames (and up-to-date suspension tech!) for decades. Now it's Chevelle's turn.

No confirmed info yet, but Chassisworks and carcreationsinc have considered the idea. Art Morrison already has the Max-G Chassis (replete with C5 suspension) for the G1 Vettes and Tri-Fives web page (http://www.artmorrison.com/maxg.htm) Other Chevy chassis makers include Jim Meyer and Electro-Dynamics.

What is the consensus on the A-bodys evolving in this direction? Going over this forum, there seems to be a growing demand for Vette brakes, R&P steering, suspension geometry, etc.

I know Wayne Due was building a replacement frame with I believe C4 suspension for a customer with a 70 or 71 Chevelle. There was talk about offering it as a complete aftermarket replacement, but the cost was going to be around $12K(!!!)

There was also talk he may just offer the front clip; you'd chop off the front portion of your frame, weld on his replacement, and have C4 front suspension.

I think it's only a matter of time before one of the major manufacturers (Chassisworks, Wayne Due, Paul Newman, etc) comes out with a full replacement A-body frame. I believe the demand is there.

I love my current full-on GW Suspension / Baer brake setup, but if a manufacturer were to come out with a direct replacement full frame offering C5 front and rear suspension and improved rigidity and torsional stiffness compared to the stock frame, I would be near the front of the line to purchase one.

Troy

I have been waiting for someone to do this for a while. I don't know if I would be up for 12K, but I am really interested in getting a new frame with updated suspension.

I have done a lot of suspension work on mine, and it handles pretty good, but I am not satisified with the steering or frame stiffness. The steering is really darty feeling, and the frame flexes so much I feel like I am riding on a giant leaf spring.

The frame flexing is the worst problem. I have the correct boxed frame with no aparent damage, excessive rust, or cracks. when I hit a bump the doors bang against the snuber, and the doors will not open when the car is on jack stands.

Still, I will probably be too old to drive by the time they make them for 64-67 (68-72 will probably be the first everyone makes) and work all the bugs out of them. Everyone makes tri-five frames, I don't understand why chevelles have been overlooked for so long. Maybe there is some dificulty with making an updated chevelle frame?

I think a full frame would be the way to go.
I've been looking at that 55-57 frame jealouly, wishing Chevelles got that kind of attention.
I don't think a front clip is a good idea as you leave behind the "flexible flyer" portion of the frame.
What someone could and should do is come up with a kit to box the side rails and maybe triangulate/brace the frame a bit.
There's only so many convertible and El C frames out there and if it's rusty inside why bother?
As it stands now I go on the assumption that I'd better be sure I tell the local towing service to bring their roll-back and not a tow truck as I'd probably get nausous watching them lift it by the front!

I think it's a great idea, as long as the price tag is not astronomical. I'd be more interested in a full frame instead of a front clip - I live in the northeast, and it's tough to find a good frame, period. Replacing the front clip on rusted junk still leaves you with rusted junk :(

I just finished doing my frame. I did a complete frame off. I striped the frame, repaired body mount holes, rewelded all seams, boxed the center section, made a custom crossmember. I did a real pro job. I finish it off with 3 coats of trio prime, 4 coats of sandable primer and 4 coats of gloss black. I changed all the suspenion to Hotchkis, stainless steel brake lines, 12 inch diskes on the front ant 11 inch on the rear. I am working on the rack and pinion steering, as we speak. I plan on have kits out next year at this time. One kit for boxing the center section with custom crossmember. Another for the rack and pinion steering. Doing your frame to this level is pricey! A whole frame kit is not needed in most cases. But I maybe interested in doing them, but for a lot less than 12k!

I agree with you guys that it needs to be a full frame. Just no sense in grafting.

I want a true "replacement" frame, meaning one that will take ALL OEM mounting points with the option for Vette suspension mounts, new rear geometry, etc. as each customer warrants. This way you can retain your existing Global West, Hotchkis components and bolt them back on to retain your previous investment.

Update it over time... like you do now.

A couple of exceptions to OEM would be to include brake/fuel lines, increase tire/header clearances, and add rack & pinion steering.

The baseline chassis has got to be affordable or this "Chevellution" isn't going to get off the ground.

Admin Al was kind enough to keep this subject at the top of the B&S forum, so keep your comments flowing... graemlins/beers.gif

matt, i'd be curiouse to see your rack and pinion. i have rack and pinion in my tubbed 70 chevelle wagon. but as far as the frame goes, i did the same thing on my frame, i fixed bushing mounts, repaired a rust spot, reinforced cetain place then had it galvanized inside and out then painted, i am soooo pleased with it i have done several frames that way now. for me it does not cost that much, i was thinking about doing them like this http://hometown.aol.com/smartasreality/page04.html
and selling them but it would be hard to make money at it and shipping would be difficult.

fo fdyfo, your right they would be hard to ship. I hope you don't think I would charge 12k for a frame! I guess it all depends on what mods you want. You really don't need to build a frame from scratch. True chevelle frame have their weaknesses, but they are great in a lot of ways. Most frames can be saved and modified. A lot of mods can be done by avearage guys with the right intructions. My rack & pinion steering will be bolt on. The box of the frame is a little harder. It does take welding and measuring. Fo fdyfo I checked out your site. Nicely done. I see you have been doing your homework on chevelle frames. I like the galv. too.

Guys, check out his page. It's great! I goes to show you, that everyone can make the orginal frame GREAT! Now if you want Corvette suspenion front and back or you want the frame channeled and tubed. Then you need to start from scratch. remember. No matter how much you change the frame and suspenion, there is a point were you are wasting money. Because you still have a stock body. If you want a pro street car that handles like a european sports car, you need to work the body too. Lighten it up, for starters. Lower the body and the frame. So the suspenion still works. Other wise we would be no better than those kids who cut the suspenion down so low that, it no longer functions. Remember everything needs to work as one in our cars.

Sorry, If I carried on. I have a passion for chevelles and racing.

Don't forget about mounting the engine lower in the frame.

thanks for the good words Matt graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Wayne quoted me $10K for a complete frame assy with front & rear C4 Corvette components. I would guess just the frame would be considerably less.
Give him a call at (360)657-4810.

You can get a real C5 chassis for that..how much would it take to make it work? :confused:

Convert a C5 rolling chassis to fit under a Chevelle? I don't think so. :rolleyes:

After looking at your site FO FDY FO I have hope for my car after all! graemlins/thumbsup.gif You sure seem to know what your doing, i just need to figure out what i'm doing. lol :D

"thankyou, thankyou vary much" in my best Elvis voice. tongue.gif yes there is a lot you can do to a chevelle frame to help it. what i dont have on there yet is, after i put the big block and exhaust on the chassis, i am makeing crossbars which will go from under the crossmember which is under the oil pan, diagonaly to under where the body bushing is on the front corner (under the firewall), then continued back diagonally to the point in which the transmission crossmember bolts to the frame. this is a very helpfull set of braces. 73 full size chevy station wagons did this, so do chevy caprice police cars. this will take some of the stress out of the curved part of the frame behind the front suspension which causes the all too familular stress cracks on chevelles. i will post when i get that far. i need to mout other things to make sure i make proper clearences. graemlins/beers.gif

Take a look at this.

http://www.hotrodstohell.net/pro_custom_chassis/index.htm

Hello All,

Has anybody used solid (metal) body mounts? Did it increase vibration and noise noticeably? Any other problems?

Can more body mounts be added to the chassis to get close to simulating a "unibody" design (obviously, it can't be as strong)?

And, has anybody purchased a "truck-arm" kit from HotrodsToHell? How much was it?

Thanks!

http://www.hotrodstohell.net/catalog/catalog.htm

I bet the stock car chassis makers (Banjo Matthews, Laughlin,) could whip up a frame real quick.Once the surface plate is made, they just drop the fitted pieces on and weld away.
Furious,
What makes you think that a unibody frame design is stronger? Body on frame construction is a much stronger design.

Hey 71,

My badly mistated point was: would increasing the number of connections between the body and the frame help reduce the obvious twisting of the frame - very very evident when cracking paint of the door edges while lifting one tire on the air and opening the door. Did that only once...

And, yes, it would be nice to have a "new chassis" supplier.

FM

FM,

I have built my own solid body mounts. The car hasn't made its first road trip yet, so I can't offer an opinion on the ride yet. I did it to limit the flex in the chassis.

Time will tell.

I agree with the Banjo comment. This chassis has been raced for decades now and the geometry tweeks are known.

FO_FDYFO & gchandler should be commended for advancing the original frame. On the HTH Chevelle, what type of spindles are you using? Wondering if it's a tall Coleman or Afco. Wondering if you're running a Grand National frontend. Do tell. A GN spindle w/ 3/4 ton snout and 3.5" brake mounts open up a whole new world of affordable upgrades for the A-body.

Yes, but keep it simple. Build a good replacement frame that accepts stock components. Not many people take these cars out to autocross tracks, so most of us don't have a need for coilovers and independent four wheel suspension.

The main reason I would cheer the introduction of a replacement frame is because of the number of problems people have been reporting with cracks and frame rail twisting around the crossmember. These frames are old and the metal is fatigued after 30+ years on the road. It would be nice to have a replacement available that addresses the problem areas, but still allows the use of stock rear axles and front control arms.

I agree, Randy. The ability to option out a replacement frame (as funds permit) is an important consideration. Creating a "multi-mount" frame that accomodates both stock & the exotic will be a winner in my book.

After reading about Project Malitude in PHR, I believe HTH has an opportunity to not only truck arm a frame, but to mini-tub it too ;) . Add in a GN-style front A-Arm assembly (with geometry corrections) and everything comes together.

A frame jig opens up this Pandora's Box... graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by SS Drifter:
Creating a "multi-mount" frame that accomodates both stock & the exotic will be a winner in my book. graemlins/thumbsup.gif I agree 100% graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif

multi mount would rule!

Man repro frames//// all this repro stuff out there now a days----- how long is it gonna be before some dude just manufactures a kit car!!!
69 Tiwanavelle??????????

The Camaro guys have several frames graemlins/sad.gif but they are subframes, of course. Easier to ship (?) or just higher demand, who knows. Given that the F-Bodies have leaf springs, you would think that the real demand would be for a full frame with rear 4-link. Oh wait, that's what a Chevelle frame is graemlins/clonk.gif . BTW: my first car was a '67 RS SS350 so Cams will always have a place in my heart.

I'm going to have to estimate that Art Morrison would be first to market with a full A-Body replacement, although HTH already has a jig set-up for their CenterDrive install. Maybe they'll take it a step further and jig a whole new frame (with IMCA / GN front end)? Let's keep these cars evolving............

Scroll down to the middle of the page. Now they tell me that those bodies are for race applications only, but I would imagine it's only a matter of time!
http://www.showcars-bodyparts.com/

or

http://www.usbody.com/

It seems really, really odd to me that Showcars-Bodyparts would actually put links to free legal advise on their website. Making it easier for their customers to get satisfaction maybe??

Peter

Here's the closest full frame yet (lots of pics): Wayne Due (http://www.waynedue.com/web/cars/Chevelle/Chevelle/index.html).

If multiple vendors enter this market, I hope they will utilize their skills to fabricate headers, exhaust/fuel/brake systems, etc. Yes, I know - we are now entering street rod territory...

Art Morrison ads state they can make a frame for almost any car like his 55 that has been in the Chevy Mags. You might want to check his ads out!

Where do these cracks occur? Around the front suspension and motor mount points?
Is there a repair or is the frame done at this point?
I'll have to go look now since I'm sure all the torque that pops the dash pad off has probably done something!

I run a street rod outfit called fatman fab (that name was already taken, hence the birdman) and we are currently designing a front clip for '64-'67 Chevelle. We have had real good success with this approach on the '55-'57 Chevy. It saves the expense of a full frame and typically fixes the end of the frame with the greatest shortcomings. We can do an entire frame, but the variations in body mounts complicate things, adding to the expense.

Where we would appreciate help is r-e-l-i-a-b-l-e
info regarding interchanges. I believe 64-67 comprises one style and 68-72 the other. I do know there are wheelbase issues, so we would probably do the convert/hardtop unit as the most likely to make this investment.

Can anybody help? Many thanks, Brent

We shipped our first 67 Chevelle stub to a customer today (8/20/04). We'll let him get it in and check out issues like fit and oilpan clearance and report back. Birdman

Okay! Some pics or details, birdman?

A Commonly over looked source for IRS is the 89-97 Ford T-bird/Mercury cougar rear setup. Its a strong setup and Hotrodders have started using them in the past few years do to the price, you can pick up the whole IRS assembly for under 250$ at a wrecking yard. Everything is adjustabel also like the toe, caster, and camber of each wheel. Down side is they only come with a 8.8" rear diff as the biggest rear end and STRONG aftermarked 1/2 shafts are avalible (the ford IRS use front wheel drive style CV shafts instead of mini driveshafts like the Vett setup)

BIRDMAN,any pics?

Hate to say this, but as I was installing th3 Global West front end on my 68 there was a voice in the back of my head telling me that just about the time I got the car together, someone would have a new frame out with independent front and rear and 13" brakes!!!!!

I contacted Chassisworks last November and then again last week. It appears they are not going to do this. I saw the Wayne Due set up on their website. Is the demand still out there?

I am considering installing 96 corvette front and rear suspension on my '67 chevelle frame. I have been taking measurements, and I don't see why we just can't cut the K-member out of the chevelle frame and install the whole K-member with suspension out of the corvette. It would require some boxing of the frame up front, but it seems like the easiest approach. The width of the inside front framerales is only about 1/2" smaller than the width of the corvette K-member.

Does anyone have words of caution with this approach?

I know the rear will require a bit more cutting and frame rale adjustments, but I believe the rear is easier in general than refabricating front rales and K-member.

Anyone in NC area that is an expert on geometry that may be able to give me some advise on my approach on the front?

Well, looks like I will dive in and try it out... worst that can happen is that I will need a new frame and there are plenty around here.

Wayne Due's website sure gives good pictures for how to modify the rear of the frame. I will post pictures as I start to tackle it. Need to set up my jig right now and get that part finished.

If I had a website, I could post pictures - someday I will build that website too...

I asked awhile back about adapting a modern K-Member to the A-Body. My thought was something like the BMR F-Body piece:

http://www.bmrfabrication.com/K-Members/ls1.jpg

So chopping (off) the frame would not be necessary. I have NO idea if this would actually work. Upper arm & coilover mounts required, of course. The gain is new geometry, rack & pinion, ??? Hmmmmmmm.

Is this too high to even consider?

http://www.bmrfabrication.com/A-arms/display.jpg

There is a gentleman named Tray Walden at Street Shop Inc. in Athens Alabama that is manufacturing "mandrel bent" rectangular tube frames for C1-C3 Corvettes using C4 suspension.

His concept is totally different than ALL the other replacement frame manufacturers in that his frame will bolt under a C2-C3 with NO modification and C1 with slight trimming of the body. He is the ONLY person who narrows the C4 Corvette rearend to fit the body instead of requiring goofy offset wheels or flares like the other manufacturers. He also used 89-96 C4 suspension versus all the other frame manufacturers that want to use 84-87 C4 rear suspensions because they are narrower.

He can do a C5 for a Corvette also however you WILL have to cut the body. The same could be true for a Chevelle. No way around cutting the body if you wish to use a C5 Corvette rear suspension. You could use a C4 rear and a C5 front. This could work very well and MAY not require cutting the body.

He could engineer and build a frame for a Chevelle with C5 suspension. Unfortunately I do not believe it will be a bolt in like his original Corvette Concept. Given the amount of business he currently enjoys in the Corvette market, this also may be a limiting factor. He is currently building two complete Corvette chassis for a high profile Nascar owner as we speak.

Tray's work and engineering is first class. Look at his website for information. www.streetshopinc.com (http://www.streetshopinc.com)

Thanks for the info. I am determined to try this on my own now, but I am still trying to research all the do's and don'ts. I have some basic knowledge of suspension geometry, but this will be my first modification to an A-body geometry.

I just picked up the rest of my steel for the jig this past weekend. I already have (2) 15ft I-beams, so now I am going to start locating everything with the frame on the jig. I am taking pictures along the way so I will be able to post them once I establish my web page or another temporary host.

I am going to start cutting the front of the frame first once I have measured everything out. My goal is to use the stock corvette K-member and just modify or make new front frame rails. I think it is going to depend on how low I want the car to sit up front - and that of course will depend on the available clearance with my inner federwells and fenders themselves.

I have a hard time figuring how much deflection I will get with the stock spring and shocks, especially when under a tight radius turn. I don't want the tires to rub at all! I can modify the inner fenders easily enough, but the fenders are a little tougher.

Anyone out there that has tried this, even if it was on a street rod? Shoot me an email.

I just read an article in CHEVY RUMBLE regarding the F-Body chassis components by www.21stcenturystreetmachines.com (http://www.21stcenturystreetmachines.com).

It's encouraging to see another manufacturer moving into the aftermarket musclecar chassis business. If these guys can take all that enthusiasm and tackle to A-Bodys next, it opens up a whole new world!!!

Hugh,did you build the suspension system on your 55?

Originally posted by SS Drifter:
I just read an article in CHEVY RUMBLE regarding the F-Body chassis components by www.21stcenturystreetmachines.com (http://www.21stcenturystreetmachines.com).

It's encouraging to see another manufacturer moving into the aftermarket musclecar chassis business. If these guys can take all that enthusiasm and tackle the A-Bodies next, it opens up a whole new world!!!
For some reason,the majority of the A-body owners just aren't as interested in these mods,,at least in comparison to the 1st Gen Camaro owners. Those guys are really innovative and are willing to spend what it takes. I just don't see that same level of commitment from Chevelle/El Camino owners. Wonder why?

Clint, my hunch is that Camaro guys are more apt to spring for an aftermarket frame simply because they can do it fairly cost effectively (~5K) because they only need a front stub. Us full frame guys are looking at likely $10K+, which is a far more substantial investment and more difficult to justify. This means a manufacturer would be far less likely to jump into the market given less potential buyers; this will also jack up the cost of the frames even more as they have to spread the development costs over fewer units sold.

Recently I've decided to snag a 68-72 Elky frame, shorten the rear portion, fully seam weld it, fab my own extra front brace in front of the engine to combat frame sag, fab my own 3-link out back, and run my current GW stuff up front and possibly have some custom spindles made. I'm tired of playing the waiting game and I think I can do it on my own far more cost effectively. Also, I shouldn't have any fitment issues with the GM frame. Decided to ditch my IRS plans as I question the durability at my power level; also, you can get a stick axle car to go real good around a turn with a proper setup.

Troy

Wayne Due is building a full A-body frame and a front stub assembly. With the latter,I guess one would cut off your stock frame around the firewall and weld on the new stub. Whoila,instant C4 or C5 front suspension!

I have spoken with a chassis company who is working on the A-Body chassis. That's all I know right now.

Just think about what this means: C-5 tech on a 40-year-old-car. That's HUGE. Huge HP, no problem.

Seriously, it needs to be the complete frame. Not a clip. Head to toe. Bolt-on. Brake lines, fuel. Clubs doing a bulk order, etc.

I'm pretty excited about the A-Bodies. They are evolving graemlins/thumbsup.gif

There's really nothing wrong with a clip. The Camaro guys have a large selection of aftermarket clips available and no one can say they don't work very well. I like the idea of a full frame,too, but the price will never be cheap enough for a lot of people.

Are any of you guys making bracing/box kits for 68-72 velles that you are going to sell or sell the plans for?

I bought a convert. frame but I have a 70 coupe I would like to box/stiffen up with out spending a fortune.

Guys,
We do all sorts of bumper-to-bumper frames (as most of you all know) in 2x4 mandrel bent tube.

Yes, we do C4 and C5 stuff (C5 with a 57.5 and 61.5 track width). Honestly, there are better choices than C4, front or rear. The geometry could use lots of improvement, which is were the C5 really shines. If you want a Vette suspension, go C5. Also, our own suspension performs just as well as C5, and allowed Art's '55 Chev out handle & accelerate Ferrari's according to Super Chevy's tests. Heck, it was driven 2000 miles to the test site, and we didn't even drive the car during the tests; somebody else did, and he loved it. The downside with our own suspension is that you can't just say "I have C5 suspension", which is honestly the only draw to it. Ours performs just as well, and is cheaper. It just doesn't have the stigma of being a Vette setup.

We can build you a custom frame, but it's up to you to do the body mounts, bumper mounts, etc. We'd do it ourselves, but there isn't enough time and money in the world available to do a complete bolt-in frame for every car out there. We are slowly building our bolt-on inventory, however.

If you do go with a mandrel bent frame, I highly recommend that you go with a 2x4, instead of 2x3. A 2x3 frame is OK on the street if the car is small (say, 105" WB), OR a cage is used. A street, non-caged car should use a 2x4 or better.

I got to visit wayne due's shop a couple months ago... UNREAL the stuff they are doing there... Very cool stuff. I just wish I had some money to get some of it done to my rig!

Hey Guy's,
Was just "cruisin" E-Bay today and came up with this #4574710293 it looks okay what do you guy's think?