Well, after going from manual pitman steering, to a fast ratio PS box w/ all new parts, I never was impressed in how my '69 steered. Always loose and sloppy, even after a full front end rebuild. I've toy'd with the idea of R&P for a half dozen years, and was teased by Steeroids (until they dropped the Chevelle from 'develpment'). Having some time before my body-guy was ready for the body to come off the frame, I spent some time fabbing my own bracket that bolts up to the front lower control arm bolts (longer). Started with cardboard, to sheet metal, to 1/8 aluminum, and had a shop cut/bend the final out of 1/4 steel plate. Drilling the mounting holes was a PITA, but it's done. I have the input shaft coming up almost vertical next to the exhaust manifold. No frame notching necessary. Nobody could tell me why I couldn't rotate the rack to clear the frame, so I made the bracket for that purpose. With parts on the way, I'll be using Flaming River's EZ fit shaft w/ a support bearing, and one more u-joint on the input shaft via a short 4" shaft.

With the software I bought last year (Autoware Front End Geometry Pro), I plugged in the numbers measured off my frame, and found that bump steer is nearly zero with my installation (no, I didn't ace it the first time eyeballing it...the software told me I needed to raise the rack 1/2", but that was all). Since the car won't be driveable for months to come, I thought anybody wanting the benefit of my experience could read it here.

Post here if you want pics of the installation, and pics of the aluminum mock-up bracket to feed the idea genie...I'll email to you.

My software says it'll handle quite nicely. It was interesting how much difference a 1/4" placement change made in the suspension geometry results...this software is a steal at $140.00 for all the trial and error I 'didn't' have to waste time on.

JR

ps...For Sale: '86 Blazer fast-ratio PS box w/ Chevelle pitman arm. Doesn't leak, polished alum cover...best offer.

I would like to see the installation pics please. I have been toying with the idea of R&P for my 71.

Chalk me up for all the details etc... I posted a Q about going to R&P a while back and got nothing out that. I believe that R&P should provide better handling and good feedback. Besides, getting rid of that LEAD BRICK saves you a bit of weight in the nose, every pound counts!

* Did you use a power assisted R&P or stayed manual?
* Which R&P did you use?
* Tie Rod ends ?

MORE MORE MORE PLEASE !

could you please send the pics/info my way as well. I would like to do this to my car one day as well.

add one more to that list. would you consider making a kit and selling them? is a PITA to install the rack and make it all work correctly? or is it pretty much drop with the brakets.

aaron

pics info pics info graemlins/hurray.gif

Please send pics and info my way to thanks graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Sign me up for some of that info.

Thomas

Pics and info please.
JIML82

And another interested person. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Please count me in for the info as well...

Thanks,

Tony

I have one concern about the way you describe your R&P installation. You mention that your gear input shaft is vertical. The gear doesn't care how it is oriented. However, the angles that your steering shaft has to operate through can have an affect on steering feel.

If the gear input shaft is indeed vertical, it would seem that the angle between the steering column intermediate shaft and the gear shaft would be 80 degrees or so. Most universal joints are good to about 25 degrees. Flexible couplings are good to about 5 degrees. I don't remember what the "pot" coupling (connection of the I-shaft to the column shaft) is good for.

It would seem that you will require several joints and centering bearings to make the 80 degrees.

Jim

where's that 'this thread is worthless without pics!!!' emoticon?? smile.gif

If anyone got some pics. Post 'em! :D

I would most definitly like to see this also smile.gif .

I'd love to see pics!

What did you use for the rack? I toyed with this idea for about 12 months on my Chevelle. I calculated that the rack would have to have an inner to inner tie rod pivot dimension of about 17 inches. I could not find a rack with those dimesions that would position the pinion in a place that prevented it from crashing into the headers on a 502.

Looking forward to more details!

Sorry people!! I forgot to turn on email notification.

Rack I'm mocking up is an '85 Mustang. Flaming River has a 'rod-friendly' unit, new, that goes in it's place later this year. Their site suggests their new rack is the same dimensions as '74-78, and they told me my '85 rack is the same dimensions as theirs for mock-up.

I'm installing the support bearing with intermediate shaft and ujoint this weekend to measure for the EZ-fit shaft (which has one joint each end). That was my solution to the angle. I also have room to further 'adjust' the angle of the rack (to tilt toward the firewall) if I have a problem...bracket is by no means complete, but it will definitely work. When it's done, it gets gussets both ends, and proper length gr8 replacement bolts for the attachment points.

Adjustable tie rod ends are a must, from Maximum Motorsports (on their way). Require drilling a 5/8" hole in your spindle (no taper). They have taper tierods, but wrong taper for the Chevelle, or F-body tall spindles.

After giving it a lot of thought, a kit is out of the question...too much liability. This is strictly a DIY install. My example is food-for-thought.

Fyi, if somebody posts my pics here, the aluminum mock-up bracket was preliminary to having cut/bent the 1st 1/4" steel one that's on the frame now. After refining the install, and taking into account my 'trimming', I'll have their computer cut me a final one, having accurately located the mounting holes. I'll get you guys pics of the 'finished' bracket next month w/ gussets.

Who can post a couple of pics for me? I'll email to you.

I'll catch up this weekend.

JR

sign me up too.

Once again...who can post a few pics for me?

And again, I apologize for the initial lack of response...email notification is now ON!

I didn't expect this kind of response.

I'm working with a member of this site to perhaps make a kit available in two formats: one has the digital design on CD for a metal shop to burn out the bracket and bend it ('if' you have a shop available with the computerized equipment) and resources for the hook up parts; the other a complete starter kit including bracket (ready to mount), adjustable tie-rod ends, and the steering gear to connect to a DD shaft column.

Personally, I would have bought a kit in finished form if it was available, but Steeroids dropped the ball on us A-body's...I really didn't have the time to do this. It took me over 30 hours, and it's not 'done'. If my rig was driveable, I'd have it on the road for a road test as soon as I receive the adjustable tie-rods, and finish it up with some gussets and black powdercoat.

I did receive my initial steering gear yesterday, and managed to get the support bearing mounted. I've got the measurement now for the steering shaft, so it's getting ordered Monday. I should have a 'finished' mock-up pic available as soon as next weekend. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Anybody that can benefit from my experience, and follow the same process I did, for 'their own use', I'm happy to show you pics of it. Just don't go selling it :cool:

Somebody to post my pics??? I barely had time to do the fabbing, let alone set up a long-overdue personal website.

Nobody's responded to my dilemma for getting pics posted in this thread...until that happens, well, I just don't have time to do 10-20 emails with pictures.

Help me out...pllllleeeeeaaaaassssse. :confused:

JR

I can host the pics for you. Send as many as you want to video@72chevelle.com

Here are the pics:

http://www.72chevelle.com/ike/rnp-bracket01.jpg

http://www.72chevelle.com/ike/rnp-chevelle01.jpg

http://www.72chevelle.com/ike/rnp-chevelle04.jpg

http://www.72chevelle.com/ike/rnp-chevelle05.jpg

http://www.72chevelle.com/ike/rnp-geometry01.jpg

How are you going to get the steering shaft to mate to the r&p shaft? The shaft coming out of the r&p looks almost straight up.

Thanks, Jeff, for hosting my pics for everybody!!

Pic #1 is of the final aluminum bracket before the steel one was fabbed. I'll take pics of the steel one after it is 'done' (this 'is' a work in progress, but it 'will' work)

Pic #2 is just a straight on shot. This ugly unit is just a 'mock-up'. Flaming River advised my '85 mustang unit is the same dimensionally to their new unit. The hard line shown hanging below the sway bar is not present on Flaming River's. I realized today I didn't take clearance pics for the crossmember and oil pan...those will follow later.

Pic #3 shows the steering shaft prior to any steering gear. I'll have all the steering gear installed by next week, and new images will follow.

Pic #4 is a top shot, showing the steering shaft angle, and clearance for headers. It obviously clears my Sanderson cast iron headers nicely. Yes, right now it is almost straight up. I have to have the bracket bent an additional ~10 degrees for my satisfaction (as I said, final work in progress), but I have as of yesterday installed the first u-joint, support bearing, and intermediate shaft, and the angles are fine.

Pic #5 shows the steering curves (note the bumpsteer) on Autoware (http://www.auto-ware.com/)'s Front Suspension Geometry Pro . That's a $140 program I bought last year just for this purpose. I'm glad I'm finally using it, as it has answered a LOT of questions related to where the rack should be, preliminary settings for the adjustable tie-rods, and alignment tips.

I'll keep updating this thread with new pics as things progress...next new pics won't come until after the rest of my steering gear comes (~07/20-25). By then, I'll have the bracket in it's final configuration, with the correct angle.

JR

Are you running stock spindles?

Tall F-body spindles.

The 12" brake spindles I have are the same dimensionally, and go on after the frame is dipped. It is those spindles I'll be drilling for the adjustable tie-rod ends.

As I don't have a car to measure, I'm pretty sure that this would work on a stock spindle/stock a-arm setup, though I wouldn't recommend a major steering upgrade/modification w/o upgrading the suspension geometry w/ the tall spindle and tubular upper a-arms at the very least.

For those wondering, the tall spindle conversion was the best thing I ever did for this car...it handled like a BMW in and out of the corners. Despite the 11" discs/rear drums, it still didn't stop well enough for me, so it's getting 12" front discs, and 11" rear discs. I have a post on that process from last year (see my 'recent posts' on my profile). The steering, however, never excited me, even after ALL new components, quick-ratio box, poly bushings, etc. The only thing that kept me from doing this sooner is that it is impossible to do this design work on R&P w/o the front clip being off and steering gear being off...it just took a lot longer to get to this frame-off point than I thought.

JR

I've been wanting R&P for my 66 chevelle and would love to see the pics and any details you have. Thanks!!!!!

Ditto for me. I'd love to get rid of that dang recirculating ball paperweight.

I'm working hard on it, guys. Time has not been a friend this summer.
I have all the steering gear now, and all I have to do is mock up a mounting plate for the spherical support bearings.

That's being done this Saturday, so hopefully I'll have some good pics to post next week.

Fortunately, I think the bracket is going to work just fine, with no cutting/welding of the frame.

I'll keep you posted.

JR

Ok. Got something accomplished, and now I believe for sure that it's gonna work. I can also now get this damned body off the frame (IF my body guy gets off his duff :mad: )

I've asked JeffK to post a couple more pics. (THANK YOU JEFF!! in advance)

Different views, but you get the jist. No cutting/welding of the frame. Yes, a lot of linkage, but it doesn't bind, and steering wheel 'play' is no more than I'm used to in other R&P vehicles I've driven. I'm confindent that with the support bearings mounted on a 'steel' plate (rather than the aluminum mock up) all will be solid.

The rack mounting bracket pictured earlier in the thread WORKS. It mounts to the front/lower a-arm bolts (which need to be replaced w/ 1/2" longer G8). The linkage support bearing bracket 'mock-up' works as well, but will get refinement after my body comes off and the frame is done. The mock up allows me to match the alignment w/o the column. The rack is mated to the spindles via adjustable rod-end links, which (of the links I ordered) require the spindle be drilled out for the 5/8" mounting boss. The drilled out version is more adjustable than the tapered one.

For those wondering...yes, those Sandersons are getting coated w/ ceramic. I don't think heat will be an issue with the u-joint closest to the front runner.

If anybody wants more info, or pics, let me know.

Once I figure out a 'number', I'll offer a dimensional drawing and a full parts list to those willing to make the 'donation to the cause'. I am NOT seeking to profit!

Fyi, it took me nearly 4 dozen hours to get to the point pictured, and a 5-step manufacturing process (and several hundred $$) to get to the final mounting bracket. It certainly is not something that can be manufactured/packaged/sold (as evidenced by Steeroids dropping our beloved A-body), but I have no doubt it is a viable option to the sloppy/spongy steering I got with all new parts.
Thus, even with plans in-hand, there will be a trial/error method for everybody installing this to get the linkage angles correct. However, the HARD work is done (IMHO).

If I have time, I may want to design an adjustable plate that will make mocking up the linkage easier.

Yes, it 'is' possible to rotate the rack and cut the frame to make the linkage path simpler. Cutting a 3" notch in my frame just didn't make sense to me. 'If' (BIG if) I could justify it, I'd have a custom frame made. Money doesn't grow on trees over here either.

However, note that as I'm in body-restoration mode, and won't be driving this car for quite awhile, I'm more than willing to help anybody get this done on their ride. It CAN be done with front clip on, and engine in.

Just say the word...

Fyi, cost of a 'shop' cutting/bending the 1/4" steel bracket = $70.00
Combined cost of the linkage parts = $630.00, if my math is correct. That does NOT include the rack. Pictured is a yarded rack that is just for mock-up. I am intent on buying Flaming River's Rod R&P after the frame goes back together. PLEASE, no comments on the expense. That old saying applies: "If you want it bad enough..."

Pics will follow (allow time...that 'budget' thing)...

I am 'excited' :D and VERY pleased with the results. I can't wait to drive her again!!!

JR

I've followed that Steeroid thing for over a year and they were always 'almost done with it'. Looks like Ike is on his way.

Just in case you are looking for some other racks :eek: check out UNISTEER (http://www.unisteer.com/Custom.html)

Let's see some more pics...

my tubbed 70 wagon has r&p
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/FO_FDYFO/tubbed04.jpg

1) What kind of rack did you use?
2) Is that bracket welded to the frame, or bolted to existing holes?
3) I certainly hope that you put the anti-sway bar back! smile.gif

i think it is a ford pinto rack. i cant remember. the bar is welded to the frame, and the car wagon is tubbbed and rides fine with out the front sway bar actually. surprises me too. must be because of the 4 link and coil overs?

Here are the Pics:

http://www.72chevelle.com/ike/rnp-chevelle8.jpg

http://www.72chevelle.com/ike/rnp-chevelle9.jpg

Originally posted by FO_FDYFO:
i think it is a ford pinto rack. i cant remember. the bar is welded to the frame, and the car wagon is tubbbed and rides fine with out the front sway bar actually. surprises me too. must be because of the 4 link and coil overs? Could be. Not going road racing with a pro-street car, anyway, I suppose. smile.gif

Originally posted by JeffK:
Here are the Pics:

http://www.72chevelle.com/ike/rnp-chevelle8.jpg

http://www.72chevelle.com/ike/rnp-chevelle9.jpg Those appear to be the exactsame picture...

Yes they do. That's what JR sent me.

Ah.
Say, don't you need to update your webpage? The last Resto Status report is March 2002!
I only ask becasue I actually found your page before I got on chevelles.com while looking for big brake/tall spindle stuff. I really enjoyed reading along as the project progressed. Have you actually let the car sit that long, or just too busy to update the web page? smile.gif

kevin who are you asking that question to?
that looks great. those steering couplers are very expensive. i bought some to redo my set up shown above.

Originally posted by 70OldsSportsCoupe:
Have you actually let the car sit that long, or just too busy to update the web page? smile.gif Yes and Yes. My last update was when I was doing remodeling on a 1953 ranch I purchased (my first home). I decided to build a new home in summer 2003 and I'm still doing the finishing touches on it now. I should be back to the car this winter. Just getting my new garage setup now graemlins/hurray.gif .

Originally posted by FO_FDYFO:
kevin who are you asking that question to?
that looks great. those steering couplers are very expensive. i bought some to redo my set up shown above. Sorry, that was for JeffK, which he answered above.
And yes, those steering joints are good-looking. Street Rod stuff, I would assume. Those guys do everything up shiny.

Originally posted by JeffK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 70OldsSportsCoupe:
Have you actually let the car sit that long, or just too busy to update the web page? smile.gif Yes and Yes. My last update was when I was doing remodeling on a 1953 ranch I purchased (my first home). I decided to build a new home in summer 2003 and I'm still doing the finishing touches on it now. I should be back to the car this winter. Just getting my new garage setup now graemlins/hurray.gif . </font>[/QUOTE]Heh. I understand the house thing. My wife and I bought our first home 4 years ago. That definitely slowed down any of my projects, since the house tends to demand money (kinda like the cars, only more so.) Gained a garage, but...
Then we had a daughter 3 years ago - that *really* sucked up the $$ smile.gif At tax time we got a statement from her daycare. I looked at it and said "We could have bought a car!"
Ah, well - she's showing signs of gearheadedness. She plays with my tools, and can point out and name my cars. :D

Ike
Just eyeballing your set-up here, have you considered the Flaming-River vibration resistors?

http://www.flaming-river.com/images/image39.jpg

Looks like you have the room and s/b a bolt-in.

Thanks Jeff! I don't know what happened to the pic (my fault obviously), but I just sent the other again to him to post.

I guess email notification turns itself off after awhile, as I didn't know all these replies were here...I'll have to change that again.

What other pics do you guys want to see?

Vibration dampener is an option after I get the car back on the road. Factory rubber bushings are intact on the rack, and I wanted 'road feel'...I'll just have to wait and see. All hardware 'is' Flaming River. Expensive? Yes, but solid and safe, and will look good next to that Sanderson header when it's ceramic coated.

Anyway...if anybody wants more pics of something specific, let me know promptly. All that is pictured is coming apart in the coming weeks for the body to get blasted and frame dipped. I didn't know how things would turn out until done. Now I have to wait to drive it again.

JR

Fixed:

http://www.72chevelle.com/ike/rnp-chevelle9.jpg