It could have been a lot worse lets just say that
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k174/66chevlmalibu/427/100_0572.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k174/66chevlmalibu/427/100_0575.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k174/66chevlmalibu/427/100_0576.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k174/66chevlmalibu/427/100_0579.jpg

I think its time for the sticker to come out... nah it's just so true:yes:

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k174/66chevlmalibu/427/100_0582.jpg

I pulled a couple bearings and they looked brand new... I'm debating weather or not to change bearings. Plans are to buy 8 new exhaust valves, have the seats touched up. Since my clearances are so loose i'm thinking of running a High Volume pump. I also want a different oil pan.

I'm looking at a few different chains and haven't made a decision yet. I'm in no rush to get this back in there.

build it
run it
BREAK IT
Fix it
repeat..........

Did u pull any of the rod bearings? Especially the uppers. They should look the worst if u were having alot of detonation.

Any chance u bent any rods?

I prefer

Build it
Run it
Repeat

myself.....I could do without the other 2. UPGRADE could be in there after run it, but breaking is not my idea of fun.

Did u pull any of the rod bearings? Especially the uppers. They should look the worst if u were having alot of detonation.

Any chance u bent any rods?

I can't seem to see any signs of detonation

Those cam bolts shouldnt of backed out that quick no matter of a plate or not.

1.) Why is that cam bolt broken?
2.) I thought u said u loc-tited them, doesnt appear to be any on the treads of the broken one.

a little JB Weld and back on the road!
Some of my customers cure worse than this with a can of Rislone!

a little JB Weld and back on the road!
Some of my customers cure worse than this with a bottle of penicillin

fixed

I think the bottom end is fine. I also must have missed the fact you didn't have a HV pump in there. It may just be me, but I always run a HV pump.

A good pan would be wise. The Moroso I have oon my 427 in the WN is sweet.

Timing chain= just a quality true roller set up. Degree in the cam and no worries about weird stuff happening with extra fancy stuff. I like to keep it simple, less things to worry about and go wrong. I break enough stuff as is.

Paul look at the casting # on the pump pretty sure it says HV on it.:yes:

Timing chain= just a quality true roller set up. Degree in the cam and no worries about weird stuff happening with extra fancy stuff. I like to keep it simple, less things to worry about and go wrong. I break enough stuff as is.


more or less an angle I was hinting at with the youngster today....
he was talking gear drive and whiz-bang stuff :confused:

Those cam bolts shouldnt of backed out that quick no matter of a plate or not.

1.) Why is that cam bolt broken?
2.) I thought u said u loc-tited them, doesnt appear to be any on the treads of the broken one.


No idea why it broke but, both pieces were sitting in the pan, along with the other 2 bolts

Perhaps it came loose, allowed impact of a valve, then sheared one of the bolts?

Perhaps it came loose, allowed impact of a valve, then sheared one of the bolts?


not sure, talking with cloyes was a joke. Not real happy with their customer service. I have a quote for a rollmaster chain that i'll probably end up getting. There's just something about a belt drive that's cool hahaha

There's just something about a belt drive that's cool hahaha

They are cool but very pricey. I do like seeing mine spin around and it is some what practical on my engine but all my lower HP engine I ran nothing but a good quality chain and gears.
If your bearings all look good then you have dodged a bullet. Be sure to check all the bearings just to make sure. Hate to see you put all back together and find out that just one stinking bearing got cobbled up.

all my lower HP engine I ran nothing but a good quality chain and gears.
If your bearings all look good then you have dodged a bullet. Be sure to check all the bearings just to make sure. Hate to see you put all back together and find out that just one stinking bearing got cobbled up.

Great advice Jim!:)

They are cool but very pricey. I do like seeing mine spin around and it is some what practical on my engine but all my lower HP engine I ran nothing but a good quality chain and gears.
If your bearings all look good then you have dodged a bullet. Be sure to check all the bearings just to make sure. Hate to see you put all back together and find out that just one stinking bearing got cobbled up.

I agree, bearings are cheap in the grand scheme of things...

more or less an angle I was hinting at with the youngster today....
he was talking gear drive and whiz-bang stuff :confused:

Paul, if you go gear drive, you're banished form TCNW. There, now you know how I feel about gear drives.

Paul, if you go gear drive, you're banished form TCNW. There, now you know how I feel about gear drives.

I pm'd Doc about gear drives when building my sbc, I love the sound but went with his advise to not run one. If your looking for the cool factor as well as the performance up grade, spend the big bucks on a good belt drive:D

My thought on the gear drive 'sound' is this. If you want the sound...save the dough for a roots blower.

Otherwise when people hear you coming, and don't see the blower, or open the hood and realize it's just a gear drive...Poser. :sad:

Paul, if you go gear drive, you're banished form TCNW. There, now you know how I feel about gear drives.


good advice Doc, I'm just throwing around ideas, most likely i'll be going with the rollmaster.

This is the milodon drive i was lookin at
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-12600/

or just for eye candy
http://www.jegs.com/p/Jesel/Jesel-1-Piece-Upper-Pulley-Belt-Drive-Systems/1209867/10002/-1

I already told the kid about geardrives transfering crank harmonics to the valvetrain....

I already told the kid about geardrives transfering crank harmonics to the valvetrain....

It's more than that. If you ever throw a timing light on a motor with a gear drive, at least a pete Jackson, the mark is going all over the place. It's because the sloppy mesh of the gears allows the cam timing to go all over. The ignition timing is moving in tandom with the cam, but the slop has the cam timing going all over.

A better quality gear drive may work better but I refuse to use one.

I had one on my Wheezer 454 and it ran and sounded good but didn't make the power I thought it should. When I kept noticing the timing bouncing everywhere i put two and two together and yanked it out and put a $20 cloyes douple roller in and the timing stabilized and ran like a bat out of hell with only that change.

After my issue, I had three other people over a few years have the same symptoms and the same results after swapping out.

Others may have good luck, but I won't risk it. I want to keep it tried and trued and make real power.

I put a gear drive in the 396 and took it out after just a few miles. Never again.

Also the belt might not like the street duty. I wonder what happens if a pebble or rock gets between the belt and gear while driving on the street. I have read some bad stories about this happening

In my opinion a belt drive is a huge waste of money for your application.

Did you check the pump to see that it is a HV?

Same thing I worry about. Sure they are great for a race only application but, for street duty I would be worried about something getting between the bely and sprocket.

In my opinion a belt drive is a huge waste of money for your application.

Did you check the pump to see that it is a HV?

yes it is a high volume pump:yes: what oil did you run?

Same thing I worry about. Sure they are great for a race only application but, for street duty I would be worried about something getting between the bely and sprocket.


how rock chips does the front of your oil pan have? how many times has you damper been hit by a rock? how many times has you mechanical fan been hit by a rock?

yes it is a high volume pump:yes: what oil did you run?

30W VR1 when it was the 461, and 30W Mobil 1 as the 489.

how rock chips does the front of your oil pan have? how many times has you damper been hit by a rock? how many times has you mechanical fan been hit by a rock?

How big of a benefit/ dollar do you get from a belt drive? Why not get a normal timing chain and buy a fogger? Pretty sure the second setup would be faster.:D

how rock chips does the front of your oil pan have? how many times has you damper been hit by a rock? how many times has you mechanical fan been hit by a rock?

You're right. Now that I think of it like that I suppose it could work for a street application, assuming that the build called for it....

How big of a benefit/ dollar do you get from a belt drive? Why not get a normal timing chain and buy a fogger? Pretty sure the second setup would be faster.:D

per jesel about a 10 horse gain so 10hp/$800 or 400hp/$1500

per jesel about a 10 horse gain so 10hp/$800 or 400hp/$1500

or 500+hp for 900$ http://www.jegs.com/i/NOS/741/02462/10002/-1

Note to self: DAAAYYUUMM thats alot of ponies per dollar.:rolleyes:

Paul, No! Now quit it. You don't need fancy pants stuff. Just buy a good true roller, nothing else, no other options at this point for you. As your elders, you will follow the direction given.

If you really want to spend that kind of dough, spend a little more and buy some AFR ovals and bolt on fogger system on top of those

Ok, the masses have spoken, not get on it.

or 500+hp for 900$ http://www.jegs.com/i/NOS/741/02462/10002/-1

Note to self: DAAAYYUUMM thats alot of ponies per dollar.:rolleyes:

no bottle add $100 for a used bottle

Paul, No! Now quit it. You don't need fancy pants stuff. Just buy a good true roller, nothing else, no other options at this point for you. As your elders, you will follow the direction given.

If you really want to spend that kind of dough, spend a little more and buy some AFR ovals and bolt on fogger system on top of those

Ok, the masses have spoken, not get on it.

doesn't hurt to dream,:D

regarding exhaust valves, do I want the 12º Under Cut-Dish Head or the 9º Flo-Flat Head?

Paul, No! Now quit it. You don't need fancy pants stuff. Just buy a good true roller, nothing else, no other options at this point for you. As your elders, you will follow the direction given.

If you really want to spend that kind of dough, spend a little more and buy some AFR ovals and bolt on fogger system on top of those

Ok, the masses have spoken, not get on it.

l:) The tribe has spoken

no bottle add $100 for a used bottle

The Pro Shot Fogger System includes a 10lb. capacity nitrous bottle,

doesn't hurt to dream,:D

regarding exhaust valves, do I want the 12º Under Cut-Dish Head or the 9º Flo-Flat Head?

You need the #300125 zyfold Titanium 14º transverse exhaust valves. 19% better low lift flow and over 10% high lift. The Zyfold coating enhances turbulant air/fuel to mix better at the transition point.

I think I have a set, about $299

Ok, so really, That was a boat load of S%@T!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just buy a set of Standard length 1.88 3/8 stem Manley race flows and call it good. Quit overthinking it.

You need the #300125 zyfold Titanium 14º transverse exhaust valves. 19% better low lift flow and over 10% high lift. The Zyfold coating enhances turbulant air/fuel to mix better at the transition point.

What! I thought those werent on the market yet...$#$%

What! I thought those werent on the market yet...$#$%

I got a factory special deal on them. Oh crap, just had to raise the price on those to $387

Ok, so really, That was a boat load of S%@T!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just buy a set of Standard length 1.88 3/8 stem Manley race flows and call it good. Quit overthinking it.


ferrea had 2 different part numbers, i'll pm wolfplace and get some on the way

I got a factory special deal on them. Oh crap, just had to raise the price on those to $387

Man that Zyfold is skyrocketing in price right now. Im gona buy a barrel of it and coat tweety in it.;)

ferrea had 2 different part numbers, i'll pm wolfplace and get some on the way

He should have my work order from when I bought my rotating assembly, I bought those exh valves from him.

Will work good, it's lighter than air. At least Jim D's air. :D

He should have my work order from when I bought my rotating assembly, I bought those exh valves from him.


what I figured. I bought some valves from him a long time ago

ferrea had 2 different part numbers, i'll pm wolfplace and get some on the way

I'd have to go look at the specs on them. Just getting them from Wolfplace is a good choice, he'll get you what you need.

FInd out what it's gonna cost to fix the heads up when you get the valves. I'm sure I could work out something cheaper if needed.

I'd have to go look at the specs on them. Just getting them from Wolfplace is a good choice, he'll get you what you need.

FInd out what it's gonna cost to fix the heads up when you get the valves. I'm sure I could work out something cheaper if needed.

Thanks doc

I had to get some razz'n in, kinda tired and made me feel better. Worked til 11:00 last night and back to work at 5:00 this morning. Not much sleep but at least I'm on days for the long term now.

I had to get some razz'n in, kinda tired and made me feel better. Worked til 11:00 last night and back to work at 5:00 this morning. Not much sleep but at least I'm on days for the long term now.

Yeah, but Tammy says your a GRUMPY DICK in the mornings.:yes:


:D

Yeah, but Tammy says your a GRUMPY DICK in the mornings.:yes:
:D

That was with my Managaement job. To much stress. I threw in the job and went back to working on airplanes starting today. Took a substantial pay cut but I believe my decision was well worth it for the good of my family.

That's cool. There's gonna be some serious POO-POO, going on at boeing in the next few years.

That's cool. There's gonna be some serious POO-POO, going on at boeing in the next few years.

That's another part of it. The way they treat our level of managers is terrible. There's some stuff coming down the pike I'm not going to be part of.

Today was the first time I've had a full, happy day at my job for some time. What a nice way to end the week.

Darryl, which timing set do you prefer?

I think you already know I have a Pete Jackson gear drive right now but I have experienced the timing jumping around as you mentioned. Even though I have a quiet one, it is hard to tell other noises in the engine compartment and I'm thinking about going with a chain since it's apart.

Darryl, which timing set do you prefer?

I think you already know I have a Pete Jackson gear drive right now but I have experienced the timing jumping around as you mentioned.

Had I known that Mike....
Maybe that is what I was hearing....who knows.

Doc,


Glad ya changed things for yourself at work. Take a good two year break. Enjoy the wife and kids. Get caught-up on your honey do list, your cars, and stuff for your pals at the shop. :D Certain items are at your shop before Paul's stuff gets looked-at.....

Had I known that Mike....
Maybe that is what I was hearing....who knows.

I'm thinking changing to a chain would help eliminate the possibilities as to the sound you were hearing, and at a reasonable expense. I want to change a few things, nothing drastic though while I'm in this rebuild stage.

You have a few weeks to get the Cobalt back together!
Last racing just b4 the BBQ!!!

Darryl, which timing set do you prefer?

I think you already know I have a Pete Jackson gear drive right now but I have experienced the timing jumping around as you mentioned. Even though I have a quiet one, it is hard to tell other noises in the engine compartment and I'm thinking about going with a chain since it's apart.

a HD Double roller cloyes would do the job for very little money. It's not a true roller but still great for a mild motor. Other similiar brands would do the job.

There are many true rollers to choose from and I run those on everything that has a greater deal of strain from the valve train. I really don't have a preference as long as it's not made over seas.

There is an important check one must do on sb's to ensure the double roller chain isn't making contact with the block, Normally if this happens its with the oild galley at the top. I've had to do a 30 second clearance a few times.

This can wear the edge of the pins off and the chain would come apart.

Thanks, all that info is good to know. I'm guessing your 30 second clearance requires a grinder.....:D I can do that.

I will get a quality setup, probably mid-range true roller. I'm guessing a hydraulic roller valvetrain won't put as much stress on it as a solid roller or flat tappet, but good parts are good parts regardless IMO.

George, that transmission front main bearing/seal leaking is pissing me off....will deal with it later during an engine parts/machining waiting period. I've also gotten tired of that 3.42 1st gear in 200 miles no less!! Something I remembered the other day was that Corvettes(which is supposedly what it came out of) had 3.42s or lower rear gear ratio than my 3.73s....part of the reason. 3rd gear isn't my favorite gear to shift into on this transmission either....sometimes it goes in easy, sometimes it doesn't.

I really want to buy 1 of 2 Jericos for sale I've seen, one of which has a 2.68 1st gear which is really what I want plus it has some Emco cut gears which are polished and better/stronger than Jerico gears. Both are the same price, but I don't know the gear ratios of the other one yet. I need to call both guys.

I know you said your advice was to slap it all back together but I want to do the mufflers too....and the rear diff. I've not driven the car enough to miss driving it, but I have driven it enough to know what I don't like about it when I drive it.

someone you know has a 1967 diff.....and winter is coming
get with me next time we talk...

Really want a Jerico eh? What about a TKO?

I agree with everyone on the gear drive. I traded a job for a '72 GMC pickup a couple weeks ago. Some idiot decided it would sound cooler with a gear drive. As soon as I get a free weekend, I am ripping that noisy POS out and putting a chain in it.

I think gear drives sound great :yes:.


































On a 90's Trans Am car on the back straight at Portland Raceway :thumbsup:

someone you know has a 1967 diff.....and winter is coming
get with me next time we talk...

Yeah, I was actually thinking about that.....if you get rid of the Elky my 10 bolt would swap right in there. Posi even...

Really want a Jerico eh? What about a TKO?

A Jerico is rated at factory 750 ft. lbs. with a clutch(without those Emco gears), the clutchless version is 1300 ft. lbs. More than I have to break it for sure. I already have the O/D, just need a new adapter and probably shorten the driveline or have a new one made. Oh yeah, both Jericos I'm looking at are $$$$ less than a TKO and less tunnel mods. I did some reading/asking about them....they prefer you just shift it with no clutch, just let off the throttle and BANG into gear because there's no syncros, just dog rings and faceplated gears. I want that speed shifting option with something I know I won't break.

TKOs are cool, but I have a 5 speed in my Dakota....I want something different feeling than a newer style internal rail transmission.

That was with my Managaement job. To much stress. I threw in the job and went back to working on airplanes starting today...

Wow. Can I relate to your pain.

Any opportunities for an automotive corporate middle manager ?

I like planes. :)

It's just the dealing with humanity on a daily basis that makes the job just feel really old some days. :yes:

That was with my Managaement job. To much stress. I threw in the job and went back to working on airplanes starting today. Took a substantial pay cut but I believe my decision was well worth it for the good of my family.

welcome back to the union brother :thumbsup: sorry bout the circumstances but youll probably break even with overtime and such. now u dont have to depend on retards to get stuff done, u can just go do it yourself. dont forget to shadow out your tools and fill out your inventory sheet :D

That was with my Managaement job. To much stress. I threw in the job and went back to working on airplanes starting today. Took a substantial pay cut but I believe my decision was well worth it for the good of my family.

Where are you working? Looks like I will be back on 9/8. Don't know how long I will be there before I go back out, then I am done as well.

Hell I am thinking of tossing in the towel also..... My senority date has gone bad though..... kinda worried about that.

Yeah, I was actually thinking about that.....if you get rid of the Elky my 10 bolt would swap right in there. Posi even...



A Jerico is rated at factory 750 ft. lbs. with a clutch(without those Emco gears), the clutchless version is 1300 ft. lbs. More than I have to break it for sure. I already have the O/D, just need a new adapter and probably shorten the driveline or have a new one made. Oh yeah, both Jericos I'm looking at are $$$$ less than a TKO and less tunnel mods. I did some reading/asking about them....they prefer you just shift it with no clutch, just let off the throttle and BANG into gear because there's no syncros, just dog rings and faceplated gears. I want that speed shifting option with something I know I won't break.

TKOs are cool, but I have a 5 speed in my Dakota....I want something different feeling than a newer style internal rail transmission.

Your only running a 383 and its a street car, you really want a non synchroed trans? That is going to make a slightly rough ride. Seems like a mismatch to me but its your car.

welcome back to the union brother :thumbsup: sorry bout the circumstances but youll probably break even with overtime and such. now u dont have to depend on retards to get stuff done, u can just go do it yourself. dont forget to shadow out your tools and fill out your inventory sheet :D

I did make $30 more yesterday than I would have as a manager, but I worked a 10 hr shift. Went by so quick it felt like 6

Your only running a 383 and its a street car, you really want a non synchroed trans? That is going to make a slightly rough ride. Seems like a mismatch to me but its your car.

So, if I bought a Tremec and not another ST-10 that will handle more torque than in its current configuration wouldn't I still be buying a transmission that's overkill? I don't like buying things that're 'good enough' for what I have now....I like buying stuff that's good enough for whatever I want to put in there at a later date. Something else to consider is that even a street car with slicks at the track can break a manual transmission. I think you may be underestimating a stroked smallblock's torque potential at high RPM.....

I've not read much about Tremecs because I'm not interested in them, sorry just not my thing. Doesn't somebody we know have a 327 with an overkill Tremec in his car......he could've bought a T5 and been fine, saved a couple thousand $$$$.

I've read about Jericos, no problems shifting on the street....takes about a half hour to learn to shift one well. Shifting them slowly and with the clutch is how to hurt them/round off the corners of the dog rings....I prefer to shift fast instead of slow anyway. I don't see how it's a mismatch, a 4 speed could have come in this car factory, a 5 speed could not have. No syncros don't bother me.

The ride is already rough, low profile tires and super loud mufflers. Hoping changing the mufflers helps a lot and lessens the vibrations in the cabin....that line lock button was driving me crazy vibrating, maybe I'll put a rubber band around it and see if that helps.

Anyway, in summation....4 speed is my transmission of choice, not looking for a 5 or 6 speed.

Where are you working? Looks like I will be back on 9/8. Don't know how long I will be there before I go back out, then I am done as well.


Marie begged the boss to get me on l/h lower to try and help fix that day shift crew from the worker side. I think Freddy is already worried I'll take his lead job.

So, if I bought a Tremec and not another ST-10 that will handle more torque than in its current configuration wouldn't I still be buying a transmission that's overkill? I don't like buying things that're 'good enough' for what I have now....I like buying stuff that's good enough for whatever I want to put in there at a later date. Something else to consider is that even a street car with slicks at the track can break a manual transmission. I think you may be underestimating a stroked smallblock's torque potential at high RPM.....

I've not read much about Tremecs because I'm not interested in them, sorry just not my thing. Doesn't somebody we know have a 327 with an overkill Tremec in his car......he could've bought a T5 and been fine, saved a couple thousand $$$$.

I've read about Jericos, no problems shifting on the street....takes about a half hour to learn to shift one well. Shifting them slowly and with the clutch is how to hurt them/round off the corners of the dog rings....I prefer to shift fast instead of slow anyway. I don't see how it's a mismatch, a 4 speed could have come in this car factory, a 5 speed could not have. No syncros don't bother me.

The ride is already rough, low profile tires and super loud mufflers. Hoping changing the mufflers helps a lot and lessens the vibrations in the cabin....that line lock button was driving me crazy vibrating, maybe I'll put a rubber band around it and see if that helps.

Anyway, in summation....4 speed is my transmission of choice, not looking for a 5 or 6 speed.

Yes a tremec was overkill for my 327 but as far as I could find, you cant get a t5/10 etc to fit in the stock console and they seemed overpriced to me anyway. I found a used tko for a decent price with everything I needed, had to jump on it. :cool: Who knows where I'll be in a few years, I may upgrade to something bigger, we will see.

Yes a tremec was overkill for my 327 but as far as I could find, you cant get a t5/10 etc to fit in the stock console and they seemed overpriced to me anyway. I found a used tko for a decent price with everything I needed, had to jump on it. :cool: Who knows where I'll be in a few years, I may upgrade to something bigger, we will see.

My ST-10 Hurst shifter fits in the same location as a Muncie does, and should fit in a console.....the Jerico should do the same but I don't have a console(didn't want one, more to clean and won't fit with the O/D well).

We agree to disagree on this subject, bound to happen sometime....at least we both like manual transmissions:thumbsup:.

That was with my Managaement job. To much stress. I threw in the job and went back to working on airplanes starting today. Took a substantial pay cut but I believe my decision was well worth it for the good of my family.

Darryl, I hope all works out for you and I wish you good luck. I'm really glad I didn't go "corporate" and stayed with what I'm doing. Life's too short to be unhappy:thumbsup:

What's the status of the engine repair Paul???

What's the status of the engine repair Paul???

Valves are sitting on the kitchen table

Valves are sitting on the kitchen table

I hear they are good with some A-1 sauce.:yes:;)

Valves are sitting on the kitchen table

If you put them in the slow cooker in beef broth for about 6 hours that get nice and tender.....;)

Taste's like chicken.

Everything smells like fish after the weekend I just had.

Everything smells like fish after the weekend I just had.

uhhh, one of those dont even have to modify posts

Just give Dave some time. He'll figure something out.