I had told myself that the 31st was going to be the day I make my final decision on whether to spray or not. Seeing as how the bog was gone and TW was running like she had no sense, it's time for me to make the decision and I can't do it on my own. I am way too torn on whether I want to spray the 355 and get deep into the 12's, or start building my stroker motor. Both of which will be extremely fun.

I'm leaning more towards the spray of course the way things are now, but that would be very involved beyond just buying a kit and bolting it all together. I would need a jacket and gloves, proper trunk prep, proper venting for the bottle, etc. Not even to mention the fuel system would need some attention.

The stroker on the other hand will be a fun winter project that'll take some time and will give me time to squeeze a few more tenths out of TW before the season ends. I think she's got atleast a 13.0 for sure in her with a little more tuning and some suspension work.

So, what do you guys think? I need some help as your opinions matter hugely to me right now.

The reason this situation is even arising is because I'm getting a 500$ bonus from work for a contest that was held in the company. It'll buy one or the other.

Please include some input with your vote as to why you'd go either way. Thanks!

Spray it, Spray it, I wanna be there when you SPRAY IT.:yes::hurray::thumbsup:;):D

Spray it, Spray it, I wanna be there when you SPRAY IT.:yes::hurray::thumbsup:;):D

Because you think it'll blow up?

Your motor already has a lot of blow by, My vote is to build a nasty stroker motor, there's nothing like n/a power. You can always spray the stroker :yes:

Because you think it'll blow up?

Pretty much, that sums it up, Yup.:yes::D:thumbsup::hurray:

Forgot to mention that the stroker will either be high compression n/a or low compression blower :yes:

Forgot to mention that the stroker will either be high compression n/a or low compression blower :yes:

or high compression blower/nitrous????? Build what you want NOW you can always change thing around later

or high compression blower/nitrous????? Build what you want NOW you can always change thing around later

Low compression blower means streetable on pump gas. High compression anything means atleast 110 or pump premium with Kemco depending on how high I go.

All decisions to be made after this one :yes::D

Dave you are just like a vulture....just waiting:yes::rolleyes::D

Well, a few things run through my mind....

If you spray it and it blows up, you're going to need to rebuild what you have(if there's anything left that isn't damaged) or spend the money on the stroker. You spend twice as much or more since you now have a nitrous system with no engine to put it on.

If you build a stroker, you can swap it in when you're ready, not when the car needs an engine, any engine to be driveable. Granted we're talking probably the winter months but if it blows the first time you spray it, we're talking late summer into fall....perfect driving time.

I would say spray it for the fun of it, but practicality and the time it will take to build the other engine while the car is down probably isn't going to be as much fun. When nitrous is introduced into an engine that isn't necessarily built for it, the nitrous exploits whatever weak links are in the engine probably 10 times quicker and more catastrophic. Some refresher info on your current engine/parts combos would be great to make an informed decision.

This is what I think you have, correct me if I'm wrong:

4 bolt main
Forged .030 pistons
5/16" fuel line
stock type mechanical fuel pump

If you decide to tap off a single fuel line, it's a good idea to run at least a small return line so the 'dead head' effect is minimized on the fuel solenoid. Reason being is that the fuel has to start moving with around 6.5 psi whereas the nitrous is at 900 PSI.....guess which one is going to want to get there sooner. With the fuel at least having movement through the return line near the solenoid, your fuel delivery system through the nitrous plate will be better and more consistent.

Paul mentioned a lot of blowby....I don't remember reading that.

As for your possible option of supercharged low compression, nothing like some nitrous to cool that intake charge down. Crazy power if your headgaskets can hold it......I'd O-ring the block if I were doing that for sure, but that's a lot more hassle.


My vote is to build the stroker first, upgrade your fuel system, etc. and put the spray on the current 355 before you pull it out and see what it does. This way, you have a replacement engine already built ready to go in and you don't have to wonder 'what if?'

Dave you are just like a vulture....just waiting:yes::rolleyes::D

Just looking for a good time.:D

Build a High Compression 406 with a Tunnel Ram and a stupid big solid flat tappet...

TW needs a Tunnel Ram, it fits in perfect with the vibe it has.

Mike, I'm pretty sure it's a 2 bolt main. It does have .030" over forged flattops, 3/8" fuel line (Atleast from the pump to the carb it is), and a stock fuel pump right now.

I messed up when I said more towards spray, because I'd much rather have the stroker being built with the running 355 still in the car with no hassles, and then still have the 355 available if the stroker craps out for some reason later on down the road. Either that or sell the 355 once the stroker's done and build a BB lol :p

Build it up first or you will blow it up. Just like Dave is waiting to see :yes:.

TOG

Build it up first or you will blow it up. Just like Dave is waiting to see :yes:.

TOG

That's what I'm really leaning towards now. I don't even know what's going on under the forged flattops that are in the 355 right now. Once I get the stroker built, I'll probably strip the 355 down and see what's going on down there. Re-ring it and put it back together if everything else looks good.

Or maybe just build the stroker and then throw a 200 shot in the 355 to get kicked off before I put the stroker in :D Kicked off for going too fast AND blowing up at the same time! lol

But really, the stroker is looking sweeter and sweeter the more and more I think about it. All the input is greatly appreciated fellas. It's helped/is helping a lot :yes:

With a 2 bolt main small block, I wouldn't even chance spraying it:noway: If you strip it down, I'd at least make it a 4 bolt or a splayed cap 4 bolt for the trouble as a replacement block should something happen to the other one.....Tracy had that done on the 2 bolt main block I'm letting him use.

I would double check the size of the line from the tank to the pump. Pretty sure it's 5/16" unless they upsized it in the later years(68-72). Questionable IMO even for a 100 or 125 shot.

Get a spare 350 out of a beater, or from the wreckers, to have sitting in your carport waiting.

Find a used 150 shot kit off ebay, for a couple hundred bucks, and bolt it on to your present setup.

Run the heck out of it, and when it goes BOOM, you've got the driver engine ready to get you around while you build your stroker.

Better yet, get a big block for cheap to throw in once you go BOOM. That'll give you something to consider while saving up the loot to build a stroker.

However, if you do spray it, you'll always want to. At least that's how I found it.

$500 will pretty much get you going with a budget nitrous system...
$500 doesn't come close to building you a stroker motor.

If you want to go stroker and spray it or supercharge it later, you are going to want a forged rotating assembly like this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-40605BI/

a pair of these...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DRT-10321112P/

then a small base circle cam.... of course it's selection will depend on which way you're going to go with the motor... and quality lifters... :thumbsup:

Did you get that block from Darryl you were going to buy?
If not you'll want a 4 bolt block, and need it clearanced.

I predict you're going to want to spray it after you get done anyway... sooo... buy the kit now and "spray and pray"... or build the combo you want and spray itor supercharge it (or both) when you're done.

Don't forget your suspension upgrades!:D

Going fast... gotta love it! :cool:

The 500$ is going to get me the block from Darryl :thumbsup: It'll be the start to the stroker build. After I get the block, then the parts will start coming in.

I think I'm pretty well set on the stroker now. Because nitrous will always be there and while I don't have a spare motor if I blow up, I'd rather have a backup. So maybe the next poll will be 'Blower or High Comp?' lol

Thanks a lot for the input guys. I appreciate it a lot :yes::beers:

Oh and Greg, those heads may not have strong enough springs on them ;)

You have all winter to build an engine whether the current motor blows or not, so spray the piss out of it and get your best time with the current motor.

heck, then you can compare the two combo's and you'll already have spray on tap for the new motor.

You can run low 12's next time out if you get on it using a safe small shot, even with a 2 bolt. .

Sprayit! Nothing to lose!

If your planning to spray the next engine I vote to spray this one, that way your money is not wasted.

BTW, great job on running low 13's with your current setup! If your front wheels where not so isane heavy I think you could be running 13.00:)

Damn you guys and all your making sense! Either way, it just makes sense :D Spray it now with a small shot and run mid-low 12's. Then save up and start the stroker over the winter.

Or just start the stroker now and spend more time on it.

My opinion has changed from stroker to spray once again :D

Mike, I hadn't even considered that at all. I'm probably going to be stripping out the interior soon and taking the back seat out as well. That would mean the front seat would be going in. All kinds of stuff to consider to get the current setup down around 13.0 to high 12's :D

Spray and pray as Greg said. Nothing like riding through the winter months with the sweet and savory memory of your best et thanks to a humble little 150 shot.

Ask me how I know. ;)

Poor Dave, still chasing the 11.36 dragon. :D

Double stack two plates, and get you some boy.:yes:

Yup, nothing like squeezing off the line, and smelling CANADIAN BACON ALL THE WAY DOWN THE TRACK:yes:

I wonder how john deals with the stress of worrying about what I'm going do to him next trime we meet at the track.:confused:

What all would I need to spray legally though?

Gloves
Jacket
Blowdown tube through the floor/trunk pan
Interior blocked off some how
Proper fuel system upgrades

A lot more to it than just bolting a kit on and pushing a button :(

Double stack two plates, and get you some boy.:yes:

Yup, nothing like squeezing off the line, and smelling CANADIAN BACON ALL THE WAY DOWN THE TRACK:yes:

I wonder how john deals with the stress of worrying about what I'm going do to him next trime we meet at the track.:confused:

Gona make him SQUEEEL like a pig?

Not really, just use somw sheet metal to eseal off the seat bacj, and speaker trya. get it at wrok. use na stuff to plumb the roll over out the car. you can tap off of yoru exitsing system to get the feul, jus be sure to use a fuel prsure cuto-ut switch. ist realy say, just gota think it thru, relays for the solinoids rtoo

here piggy pgiiy

Not really, just use somw sheet metal to eseal off the seat bacj, and speaker trya. get it at wrok. use na stuff to plumb the roll over out the car. you can tap off of yoru exitsing system to get the feul, jus be sure to use a fuel prsure cuto-ut switch. ist realy say, just gota think it thru, relays for the solinoids rtoo

Wtf did you just say?

wha you cant fukking read englis

Dave, share the med's bro. That's some serious enigma required decrypting of your prior message. :)

And all I can say is, it won't be me squealing like a little piggy.

OutCast isn't just sittin' back waiting for the big talkers to bring on the show.

I ain't running from anyone. :noway:

So, if you have a back seat in there and speakers filling the holes, rear package tray, etc. you still have to block it off? I don't see how that makes sense since guys put the bottle INSIDE the cabin all the time. I know Jim's is in the cabin with just the blow down tube going through the floor and no roll-down windows.

I remember seeing the back of Greg's seat with no block-off there, but he did have sheetmetal or something blocking the bare package tray area from the underside.

A clear understanding of what needs to be done would be helpful for Chad as well as myself and any other inquiring minds.

Because the fuel cell and battery are in the trunk. The passenger compartment needs sealed off from that combo

I have a fuel cell, remote battery and nos bottle in the trunk. I don't have a back seat, so nhra req's 024 sheet metal or better for a rear firewall. I did that, and used expansion foam throughout the rear bulkhead to seal.

I do use the blowdown tube for my nos bottle. Last time at the track was the first time I was required to use gloves. I always wear a full suit anyways. I have a bottle of fireproof spray I douche my suit down with before every raceday just because.

I have found all tracks I race at to be very accomodating, as I have over built my car for safety for the numbers it runs. WTF, I have 3 little kids and a cute wife I'm not in a hurry to ditch. Besides, overbuilding for safety makes me drive the car harder, as I feel confident it can take a bad bounce at the speeds I'm running.

Hmm, ok, I didn't think about the fuel cell along with a remote battery in combination with the NOS. I was thinking more along the lines that Chad and myself currently have no fuel cell or main battery(mine is removable for the track and just for the stereo anyway) in the trunk.

So, I'm guessing with just a NOS bottle I wouldn't need a block off? I may put one in someday just because it's safer.

Thanks for the explanation guys, glad to know everyone is being safe.

I plan on relocating the battery to the trunk soon as well, so I'd definitely need a block off. Can anybody either translate Dave's message or put up one of their own for the required stuff to run nitrous in the trunk? And the relocated battery? I think I'm fully set on nitrous now, and would like to start buying the prep stuff now before I get the kit to throw in there.

What all would I need to spray legally though?

Gloves
Jacket
Blowdown tube through the floor/trunk pan
Interior blocked off some how
Proper fuel system upgrades


Gloves are only required at 9.99 or quicker. Get an NHRA rule book and look at the break down of what's required at what e.t. it will save you headaches at tech.
http://www.nhra.com/competition/etquickref.aspx

Martin,

I don't have my nhra rule book at work with me, but the tech guys at Bremerton have asked me twice for proof of gloves after seeing my nitrous bottle in the trunk. They said that gloves were a requirement per 2009 NHRA reg's for all nitrous equipped cars.

I'm not saying your info isn't accurate, I just want to point out what some tech guys (right or wrong) are requiring.

I'm new enough at this stuff that I went out and bought the gloves, jacket, pants, shoes and an SA2005 helmet just to make sure I didn't get hassled at tech.

Martin,

I don't have my nhra rule book at work with me, but the tech guys at Bremerton have asked me twice for proof of gloves after seeing my nitrous bottle in the trunk. They said that gloves were a requirement per 2009 NHRA reg's for all nitrous equipped cars.

I'm not saying your info isn't accurate, I just want to point out what some tech guys (right or wrong) are requiring.

I'm new enough at this stuff that I went out and bought the gloves, jacket, pants, shoes and an SA2005 helmet just to make sure I didn't get hassled at tech.
Uhmm, being an N/A guy I'm clueless to that bit o' info, maybe it's so you don't freeze burn yer fingers manually turning it on:D

I'm gonna have to look it up just out of curiosity, seems a bit wierd if it's in the trunk, I thought nos was non-flammable?

You are correct, nitrous is non-flammable.

When you heat nitrous oxide to about 570 degrees F (~300 C), it splits into oxygen and nitrogen. So the injection of nitrous oxide into an engine means that more oxygen is available during combustion. Because you have more oxygen, you can also inject more fuel, allowing the same engine to produce more power. Nitrous oxide is one of the simplest ways to provide a significant horsepower boost to any gasoline engine.


*Nitrous oxide has another effect that improves performance even more. When it vaporizes, nitrous oxide provides a significant cooling effect on the intake air. When you reduce the intake air temperature, you increase the air's density, and this provides even more oxygen inside the cylinder.


I think they want the nitrous drivers to wear gloves because we're so cool.:cool::D

Damn, I gotta go to bed right after I take My ambien.:yes:

I don't even remember that post.:confused:

As I was trying to say, just use some sheetmetal to seal the passenger compartment off from the trunk. it has to be to pass tech if there's a NAWS bottle in the trunk.

Get a couple AN fittings to plumb the vent through the trunk floor.

And you can tap into your existing fuel system to get fuel. it is alittle more then just buying a kit, but, it IS seriously chep HP, and one hell of a rush.

And Johnny, piggy, maybe, at the end of August, we can try to meet up in Bremerton, if it all works out. You better get you some this year, cause you ain't gonna catch me after this winter.:noway:

The final vote is in and since I didn't do it tonight, tomorrow will be tear out/prep day for the nitrous :yes: All the panels and the back seat are coming out. Going to cut the main section of the rear speaker tray out and cover it up with sheet metal. Will do the same with the back seat area. Going to use some high heat silicone around the seams on the sheet metal so when I screw it in it won't rattle at all. Will make a nice buffer between the sheet metal and the car :yes:

Going to be fun just doing this small part of the process :D

This poll just goes to show the results don't match the decision :noway:.....as expected I suppose:D.

Why cut it all out?

Wow I am surprised (actually I am not :D) you went with the NOS setup after most of us tried to tell you differently :yes:.
If your motor is sound you will be able to run a 125 shot all day. But if its not you will make Dave's dreams come true ;).
I hope this works out for you Chad. Just a word of advice "Start trailering your car to the track"

TOG

If chad's in it, it's a nightmare.

So no more back seat? Where the hell is Bianca going to sit? :confused: I hope your car is safe Chad. Your seat belts and seat in securely right? Suspension gone through? Tires not too old? Brakes good?

Not really, just use somw sheet metal to eseal off the seat bacj, and speaker trya. get it at wrok. use na stuff to plumb the roll over out the car. you can tap off of yoru exitsing system to get the feul, jus be sure to use a fuel prsure cuto-ut switch. ist realy say, just gota think it thru, relays for the solinoids rtoo

here piggy pgiiy

l:)

I think its time for intervention... :yes:

I already have another seat, I just have to put it in. That'll come after everything else.

Dave, I'm cutting it all out because it's all messed up anyway. Whoever had it before the previous owner, decided it'd be a good idea to rip out the speakers and tore up all the sheet metal up there. The back seat framing is going to stay, just the speaker tray is going to get cut out.

TOG, I'd trailer it if I could afford a trailer :yes: I'm thinking of getting AAA per Eric's advice and info :D

TOG, I'd trailer it if I could afford a trailer :yes: I'm thinking of getting AAA per Eric's advice and info :D

AAA thats a good Idea :yes:. We will be happy to help you push TW out the gate for a lift home ;).

TOG

Chad,

Congrats on your decision.
I strongly advise you to proceed with all due caution with safety in mind.
No if, ands, or buts, screw up something with your nitrous, say bye bye to your engine.
No half-arse work here.
OH, and TECH is gonna be all over your car like white on rice so might as well get everything 'right' with the car in August.
leaks
wheel studs
etc
I'd advise you that the first spay that you get is black primer so the car does not present as a hunka....less encouragement for the tech guys to look for stuff.

Again, congrats.

AAA thats a good Idea :yes:. Chad I have AAA, and believe me after running Ol' Blue real hard I have wondered a few times if we would make it home. Knowing that I had towing covered has helped me relax a little when I am at the track.
I would NEVER hope for one of us to break :sad:. I truly hope TW is up for Extra HP. Use your head and be safe. Also be Smart and don't go about this upgrade in a hurry with RTV and Duct tape ;).

TOG

A stock bottom end will handle a little shot with ease. My first NOS was with my 327 and I ran the piss out of it with a 125 shot. Stock rods and bolts, cast pistons and rings, unbalanced, 2-bolt main,,,ect.

I still have the short block.

Chad,,,,,,,,,,,squeeze it will a small shot. Get the adjustable kit so you can up it when you get a decent bottom end.

Thank you all for the encouraging words and I promise you, I refuse to half-ass anything when it comes to the safety of TW or me. The car will be more than ready before I push the button for the first time. And I'll have AAA on my side ready for if something does happen :yes:

Thank you all for the encouraging words and I promise you, I refuse to half-ass anything when it comes to the safety of TW or me. The car will be more than ready before I push the button for the first time. And I'll have AAA on my side ready for if something does happen :yes:

aaa is always good and if i am at the track and you break and the nova doesnt kick any buckets i would let you piggy back and i could drive the nova home. we gotta look out for each other... these old guys are sneaky snakes haha

And I'll have AA on my side ready for if something does happen :yes:

you shouldn't drink & drive:noway:

I have a fuel cell, remote battery and nos bottle in the trunk. I don't have a back seat, so nhra req's 024 sheet metal or better for a rear firewall. I did that, and used expansion foam throughout the rear bulkhead to seal.

I do use the blowdown tube for my nos bottle. Last time at the track was the first time I was required to use gloves. I always wear a full suit anyways. I have a bottle of fireproof spray I douche my suit down with before every raceday just because.

I have found all tracks I race at to be very accomodating, as I have over built my car for safety for the numbers it runs. WTF, I have 3 little kids and a cute wife I'm not in a hurry to ditch. Besides, overbuilding for safety makes me drive the car harder, as I feel confident it can take a bad bounce at the speeds I'm running.

How'd that get missed?:confused:

Not only is it fireproof, but it smells really good, too.

Not only is it fireproof, but it smells really good, too.


Like strawberries:D

And Johnny, piggy, maybe, at the end of August, we can try to meet up in Bremerton, if it all works out. You better get you some this year, cause you ain't gonna catch me after this winter.:noway:

Unless you bench race him in his garage where his motor will still be hanging come next spring as he will have decided to tear apart his car yet again because some foreigner in a strawberry smelling fire suit soundly squashed him at Bremerton.

Unless you bench race him in his garage where his motor will still be hanging come next spring as he will have decided to tear apart his car yet again because some foreigner in a strawberry smelling fire suit soundly squashed him at Bremerton.

At least it'll be way under, what 13.xx something, help me out here.:yes:

I think I might be on to something after my little chat with Brian today.
Thanks, Brian. Hope it is the difference.

I think I might be on to something after my little chat with Brian today.
Thanks, Brian. Hope it is the difference.

Good talking to you today John.

Dave I hope ur setup can run 10s pretty easily for next season to keep up with the Canadian.:beers:

At least it'll be way under, what 13.xx something, help me out here.:yes:

Hey, I'm not the one chasing the Canadian.:noway: I'm still struggling to stay ahead of George:D

Hey, I'm not the one chasing the Canadian.:noway: I'm still struggling to stay ahead of George:D

First intelligent thing out of your mouth in ages!:thumbsup::beers: