I picked up my NAPA quick ratio steering box today. I did some unscientific measurements while I had it side-by-side with my original box. The ratio is a whole lot faster but it appears the range of motion is noticeably less.

Has anybody installed one of these in replacement of a stocker? Did you loose lots of turning radius?

Is there any way to improve the range of motion on these boxes?

My project car is so far from being driveable I need to decide now if this box will severely limit my turning radius. If so, I'll return it and buy an AGR box.

TIA.

I noticed some decreased turning radius with mine. Not alot, but enough to notice a difference when trying to park the car.
I'd like to know if there's a way to adjust it as well.

Use a longer pitman arm and idler arm.

Does the AGR box have the same range of motion limitation?

Use a longer pitman arm and idler arm. I don't think you could use too much longer, because won't the centerlink hit the frame if its moved back...

Rich, maybe take a look under your hardtop and try to measure how much "range of motion" is actually needed... The Chevelle boxes have more travel, but don't the spindle-mounted steering arms limit overall travel by contacting the lower control arm? Will that limit come before the box's stops?

Maybe try to match the new box's limits to the hardtop (visually) and see how it looks/feels... You'll have to estimate where the stops would be, but you could probably check where the steering wheel "would" be with the NAPA box...

The stops can be removed, but you have to disassemble the box and change or grind the end cover...

The coupe has a manual box and this is a p/s box but I would guess the range of motion required is the same.

Yes, on the coupe with the original drum brake set up the stops are provided by the steering knuckle contacting the lower control arm. The wagon will have later model disc brake spindles and I don't recall if they have the same limits or if the steering limit is entirely provided by the box itself.

I will try to determine if the box on the coupe has more range of motion than is actually required. Due to how it feels when I hit the limit at either end, I believe the box has more motion available than the knuckles/lower control arm contact allows. Good point you've made and I'll check into it.

To change the stop limits would I have to disassemble the whole box on would I only have to remove the end cover? Can the cover be removed without disassembling the whole unit?

You know, if the AGR box doesn't suffer from the same steering limits I may just pay the extra and go that route in the end.

It may get into some extesive repairs but the quick-ratio and tall spindle conversion come with trade-offs. The right way would be to determine how much movement is needed to correct for bumpsteer and gain full range of motion, then aquire longer arms and remount the box and idler to provide the room needed.

Throttle steer smile.gif

what about the Grand Cherokee box's? do they offer less of a turning ratius than the velle box? i have a grand cherokee, and i think its from the taller tires, but it feels like it has the same, but with smaller tires, it might have just a tad more.

anybody know for sure?

aaron

The Grand Cherokee box typically has more sweep than the A body box.

Dennis, you seem pretty knowledgable on the subject, so which box would you recommend for a budget cruiser driven a lot of street miles with tall spindles and occasional road-course abuse?

Rick,

What is the Napa part number on the box?

I have the Grand Cherokee box. Still modifing the steering column intermediate shaft to eliminate the rag joint. I will probably also fab a bracket to use the G.C. P/S pump as well. The G.C. box has everything that the other boxes have the added advantage of tighter turning radius (not by much). The only thing the perfromance boxes have is increased road feel.

.

The one I got is part # NSP276509.

I checked the coupe and it's range of motion is real close to 90 degrees (just under 45 degrees to each side). On the bench, the new NAPA box looks to come in at about 80 degrees, or approximately 40 degrees to each side. These were unscientific measurements, but clearly illustrated to me that the NAPA box will provide a noticeably larger turning radius.

I now need to decide to take it back and go with the AGR box or not.

now, that is the diff, between the NAPA and the AGR box? or should i say, what is the AGR box?


aaron

I think the late-modle Caprice/Impala SS quick-ratio is almost the same as the Grand Cherokee (43deg 30min for Caprice, 43deg 45min for GC), both with a little more sweep than stock Chevelles... 80's Monte SS boxes have less sweep (around 39.25 deg, or 78.5 degrees total)...
Stock Chevelles generally had about 43.5 degrees (87 degrees total sweep) up through 1969...

Camaro/Firebird quick ratio boxes ONLY had 35 or 32 degrees (68-70 degrees total!). Even the old 1968 standard Camaro will have 3.0 L-to-L, as will the 80's with the standard (non-quick) boxes.

This is why "lock-to-lock" isn't really a good indicator of whethewr the box is "quick" or not...

I had a used Caprice box but decided to go with the AGR and avoid rebuilding... Plus the AGR box uses the old-style fittings and old-style rag-joint coupler (same spline as stock Chevelles), so that save money and hassle getting adapters, etc (although I had actually already purchased the adapters).

Grand Cherokee and Caprice (and other) quick ratio bowex use the newer spline input and metric o-ring fittings on the hoses...

My AGR has a stiffer T-bar, so it feels tighter... nice...

AGR website should have more info... Bought it through Summit though (with a 10% code too)...


For those that don't know (or forgot), check JimL82s Tech Ref for a spreadsheet of the different boxes, etc
Power Steering boxes (http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref29.html)


The difference might not seem significant, but figure its approximately 1/2" per side less travel (I just quickly figured this with trig and using an assumed 6-inch length of the Pitman and the difference between the Monte SS and Caprice boxes-about 9-degrees, so not completely accurate)

Rich

part number 276509 is a variable ratio box, the same box that came on many chevelles. it should work just fine, but it isnt a constant ratio box.

ive worked for a few parts houses and i know a little about the industry and suppliers. that box was rebuilt by cordone, if anyone thinks that they installed fast ratio guts in that box, they have another thing coming. all these companies do is rebuild these things and replace what is necessary.

im sure you already know but the variable ratio box has the same ratio as a standard box in the center of travel. the ratio increases the further the wheel is turned. these units dont feel any better than a standard power steering box on center, which is where you are at during 90 percent of your driving.

having read some of your previous posts i honestly think you will be disappointed with the variable unit. i suggest you either get the grand cherokee box or an agr unit, i have no doubt in my mind you will be much happier.

i made the change to a grand cherokee box on my 66 and it has been one of the best mods i have made to this point. i feel much more confident behind the wheel and it has made the car much easier to correct and control. ive driven cars with manual steering, standard power steering and a car with the variable steering. and i can say without a doubt the 12.7:1 fast ratio box beats them all hands down.

I spoke with an ARG tech rep and I heard everything I wanted to hear. I'll be returning the NAPA box and buying the AGR box.

He also told me that AGR boxes can be purchased from Auto Zones now! I checked a local store and they don't have them in stock but can get them in about a week. Their price is equal to Summit's.

The tech told me that many old Saginaw boxes have more severe stops in them than others. So when you buy a rebuilt box (such as NAPAs rebuilt quick ratio box) sometimes you get a unit with narrow stops and sometimes you don't. Looks like I got one with the narrow stops. Anyway, he said AGR also does more than just rebuild the units and that they install the smallest stops possible thus providing the most amount of steering angle possible out of these boxes.

If the pictures are anything to go by, the AGR box also looks a whole lot nicer than the NAPA unit with grease and gunky black paint slopped all over it!

What's another $100 to be happy with the results?

Rich,

You might also be interested in AGRs "Resto" boxes... They use stock end and top caps and I think they might be painted (instead of plated)... They are a little less money too (about $50 less)

Also, the steering input needed is a little more on the AGR than pretty much any stock box... That adds a little more performance feel to it...

Looks like I've had a quick ratio box all along, on the '95 caprice cop-car I'm pulling the LT-1 out of smile.gif The fittings aren't an issue since I'm using all the pulleys and accessories (including PS pump) off the LT1 :cool:

Problem solved smile.gif

so, what does the AGR box cost about?
would it be worth buying a used box from say a grand cherokee, than buying a new box, such as an agr? expecially if money is tight.

you guys really know your stuff, and even though this wasnt my post, id still like to say thanks for all the advice.. so far.

aaron

Aaron

if your on a budget the grand cherokee or 9C1 caprice cop car box will work great. these steering boxes are pretty reliable and will last for hundreds of thousands of miles, however try to find one out of a low mileage vehicle. generally the cop cars have lots of miles on them and are harder to find, usually you can find a wrecked low mileage grand cherokee much easier.

i bought my grand cherokee box from a local junk yard. the truck had 50,000 or so on it and i paid $60.00 for it.

keep in mind, with the grand cherokee or caprice box you will have to do some work to the rag joint and will have to buy adapters for the hoses(cheap). do a search here and you will find all the info needed for this swap.

the agr box costs $280.00 at summit, unlike the cherokee or caprice box its a 100% drop in replacement so you wont have to mess with the rag joint or hoses.

in my opinion the minor amount of extra work required to install the cherokee/caprice box is well worth the money saved over the agr unit.

Brandon,
thanks man. i have a 96 grand cherokee as my daily driver right now (velle's master clinder went, look for link in a few moments after this is written). i def like the way the steering is on it, it also seems it has a tad better (tighter) turning ratius even with the 30" tall tires on it. the box works great and we have 165k on it. i think i will have to pay my truck junk yard a visit somtime this winter, and see what they get for one.

thanks again.

aaron

Originally posted by 1966_L78:
Rich,

You might also be interested in AGRs "Resto" boxes... They use stock end and top caps and I think they might be painted (instead of plated)... They are a little less money too (about $50 less)

Also, the steering input needed is a little more on the AGR than pretty much any stock box... That adds a little more performance feel to it... That's excatly the one I've been looking at. Not only do I want the resto look, it is actually quite a bit less expensive. The tech told me the internals between the two are the same, the only real difference are the end caps and the top covers.

Try this link. It has a lot of info. http://www.globalwest.net/1964-72%20A-BODIES.htm#Steering%20Boxes%20and%20steering%20cou plers:

Aaron,
I'll agree with Brandon, if you are on a budget, a used box will be cheaper... but figure about $70 for the rag-joint and another $15 for the hose adapters on top of the cost of the used box... Probably about $150... If it needs new seals/pitman shaft bearings, than even more... Definitely look for low mileage...

AGRs are $280 and up...

Rich, did ARG say what size T-bar they use (how much effort?). I thought it was like 0.230", but its been a while. Pretty sure is greater than any stock applications...

The T-bar is what determines how much effort is needed (by your arms) to turn the wheel before it assists. These are listed in JimL82 Tech Reference.

Tony

im glad you mentioned this, i was able to use a rag joint out of a late 70s trans am parts car i had. since i had the car it cost me nothing.

it shouldnt be too difficult to locate the right rag joint in a wrecking yard for next to nothing.

all in all i have about $80.00 in my swap, about $200 cheaper than the cheapest agr box.