I have started a resoration on a 1969 Chevelle and recently have spoken to a previous owner. He says that this car originally came with a 427ci engine and a turbo 400 tranny - he says that he can track down the original engine but I would like to confirm this before the big hassle of tracking it down. Can anyone please tell me how I can tell if my car is an original 427 (maybe an SS 427?) I do not have the built sheet - at least I have not found it.

The VIN is 1363791324578

Could somebody please set me in the right direction, Thanks.

It is my UNDERSTANDING ( not fact mind you) that a 427 was never put in a Chevelle. The gray area becomes whehter dealers put the engine in at the point of sale, ala COPO cars and Yenko, Balwdin etc. But certainly worth persuing as a matter of curiousity. I am also curious to hear was others say. Sounds like a damn nice ride though!

Thanks, I was wondering about that. Again this is only a story from a previous owner so I don't know if it is true - but as you say worth persuing. Actually it is not a nice ride right now - the body is off the frame and it is about to recieve a new floor pan and trunk pan - along with a lot of sanding and painting and new int. etc ---- she's a little "sick" right now.

Guess you won't be driving her down to the Wednesday night cruise in Burlington. ( if they have it this year). But with a name like Moparman, you gotta have a 69 Bee 383?? I'll let you drive mine if I can drive yours!

Good luck with your research.

Chaas
Gold #62
67 SS396/L88

If the Chevelle is a Canadian sold new car you can obtain the engine info from GM in Oshawa. What is the original color of the car? I had friends back in 69 that had 427 Chevelles (Copo cars). One was red/ black 4 speed the other was dk green/ black 4 speed.The latter was sold new at Belmont Chev-Olds.

It's original colour (thats how we spell it up here in Canada, eh) it a gold colour - right now it is white. It would be real neat if it was a copo car! I dont drive any of my cars in the winter - they put too much salt on the roads up here. Nope sorry, I don't have a 'Bee but I do have a Barracuda but I probably am forbidden to talk about it on this page! right now I have a 327 in the Chevelle (est. at over 350 hp.)

Thanks, I will look into the info at oshawa - do just phone them?

MoparMan

Back in 68 or 69 (heck I can't remember, I've slept since then) I knew a guy that had an SS427 Chevelle. It had what really appeared to be genuine emblems and it was only 1 or 2yrs old. I told him there was no such thing, they were only 396. But this guy was so convincing that to this day I wonder. Back then nobody checked numbers, much less knew what they were. These kind of cars were just driven into the ground and then forgotten.

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Tom Parsons

Chevrolet by the Numbers, page 51, shows engine codes for 1969 Chevelle, both COPO #9562, 427/425 horse, MP-4speed, MQ-Turbohydramatic.

So, it seems there were some COPO 427s produced in 1969.

C-b-t-N also states that some of the last 1969 production run 396s were marked with the three leter codes found on 1970 and later engines, beginning with the letter C.

No info is given on vin numbers as far as identifying the COPO vs. non-COPO is concerned.

Hope this helps.

Not that it means anything, but not outfitting the venerable Chevelle with the venerable 427 was a HUGE bumblef&&k move IMO. Why not put one in the full framed sedan and not the Camaro??? Knowing GM it was probably due to politics. And the execs at Corvette division.

Moparman, I think you'll find that many bowtie gentlemen are closet Mopar freaks. I know I am! Offer still stands you can drive mine if I can drive yours. If it was a 69 Bee 383 mag 4 speed with suregrip 3.90's I'd be talking swapping titles!( A car my dead unc had).

Anyway, I certainly hope you stumbled into one. There's a fella here in Buffalo, Bob Harris, at Camaro specialties, that knows his way around COPOs well. 716-652-7086.



[This message has been edited by Gene Chas (edited 02-10-2000).]

Rick Cell,

How do I find out from Oshawa?

Does anyone know if there is a book on restoring COPO cars?

And How do I find out what options the car came with - apperantly you can't tell from the fendor tag.

Thanks, Mopar Man

If this car was produced in Canada, then can't he get a copy of the original window sticker and build sheet? I thought this has been discussed on this site before. Any help on the phone number???

A car buddy of mine used to work for Baldwin-Motion during the mid-late 60's. He actually HAD a 64 Biscayne with a "mystery motor" that was banned from nascar. He said they only made 57 of those motors, and he got one. You should see the pictures of it. The car had open fenderwell headers, 11-inch slicks and looked MEAN. Under the hood...well how many street cars you see with a MAGNETO and DUAL ELECTRIC FUEL PUMPS in 1965? One mean sucker...I would love to post pictures of it here sometime if I only knew how..

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66 SS Chevelle Houston, TX ACES#3321 "There is no Replacement for Displacement"

Mopar Man, contact these guys
http://www.cdnclassics.chevelles.net
They can track down your info based on the VIN and cowl tag numbers if the car was either produced in Canada, or exported to Canada for sale as a new car.

BTW the 68 and 69 COPO cars were produced from the factory with the 427. This was not a RPO as you all know. Most of the cars were ordered by Yenko or Baldwin, but not all, seem to remember seeing a 427 velle that was a regular COPO car in a car mag few months ago.
Don't know what documentaion you would need to prove as a COPO 427, but if it is true, that car would be worth TONS of money http://www.chevelles.com/forum/eek.gif, so consider painting it the original colour

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Frank W
Arlington MA
74 Laguna S3 !! ( No motor yet)
73 Malibu Coupe Mighty 305 Power
hometown.aol.com/folingo/ (http://hometown.aol.com/folingo/)

Chevelles did in fact come from the factory with 427's in them (in '69, at least)! And they will FLY!

Check out this web page: www.yenko.net (http://www.yenko.net)

This is a page by the Yenko Sprotscar Club, called the Supercar Registry. They can help you look for signs if it is a COPO (factory 427 Chevelle). They have a registry of COPO and other dealer prep cars (Baldwin-Motion, Yenko, Berger, Harrell, etc.) and also host the annual Supercar Reunion. There are plenty of pictures of other COPO cars to look at also. It sounds like the car is worth checking in to. For some more good pictures of COPO and dealer cars, check out some back issues of Muscle Car Review, as they have ran several articles on these types of cars. They even took 3 COPO cars ('69 COPO Chevelle, '69 COPO Camaro, '70 COPO Nova) to a drag strip to test the new BFG Drag Radials!


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Rob Clary
'70 LS-6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold Member #85
Interested in COPOs, Yenkos or other dealer built muscle cars then go here: www.yenko.net (http://www.yenko.net)

Folks,

My info indicates that the COPO cars had certain "SS" items but were not SS cars per se'. Wide variety of "extra" combinations i.e. SS hood and steering wheel but Malibu badgers on interior trim. Plain turns signal bezels etc. This is VERy difficult without numbers or build sheet to tell. Shoot, it's tough to prove SS package after '69 since it was not a separate model but a package that could be ordered on any model from 300 post to station wagon.

My two cents,

Dan

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Central Illinois
69 Cortez silver SS 427
69 azure turquois Malibu 250
ACES #02351
Team Chevelle Gold #35

Slight correction, Dan. In '69 The SS package could be ordered on any 2 door V8 Chevelle, but not the station wagon.

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von '69 300 Dlx SS Murphy's Law is always in effect

Thanks guys for all your ideas - they are much appreciated. I am contacting people according to you suggestions. Some of the little signs are there - like plain trim - malibu emblems on the inside and no emblem on the front marker light (eg. 307 or 350). apparently it used to have an ss hood on it as well. Is a big block car's frame different from a small block car's frame - how do I tell?

Thanks again

MoparMan

Moparman -The vin number you posted does not look right. It should have a letter in the middle. If you post the vin and the complete trim tag info, we can tell you more info about your car.
Some people say there were about 350 COPO Chevelle engines made going by the engine code production numbers. It is not known how many 69 COPO Chevelles were produced but 69 is the only year for the COPO 427 Chevelle.
Yenko recieved 99 of the 427 COPO Chevelles.

I was under the impression that all the COPO and other 427 equipped cars were setup as a 375hp chevelle. If this is the case it would have a single 3/8 fuel line. If it has a vapor return line it would probably not be a 427 car. Someone correct me if I am wrong. You are also correct that they did not come with any SS markings for the COPO's. This is just something else to look at to help verify the hopes of it being a 427 car.



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Jeff
Georgia
69SS and 67 Elky

I also believe that the 427 Chevelle had a Big Blue Bowtie on the grille instead of the SS emblem.

Just my 2 cents worth. If Mopar's 69 Chevelle was a COPO, but no longer has the numbers matching 427, what difference does it matter. It is in reality not a COPO anymore.

Moparman....The "1" in your VIN indicates that your car did in fact come from Oshawa Canada, and indeed you can request a "Production Record" I think they call it (not a build sheet) from GM of Canada. It costs about 42$ and is well worth it for any serious restorer. I dont have the # any longer but through a few calls to "Information" Im sure you can track it down. Also I think that all cars from Canada
had all the main options stamped into the "cowl tag". My 70 has ...M21,D55,A21 and Z25 for "SS" on this tag under the hood on the drivers side...FIND THAT MOTOR!!..good luck

Yeah, the mill is key. BEWARE. I know if at least one individual in my region that will, without blinking an eye, deck and restamp a block.

He offerred to stamp my 1970 L88 block, which I had decked years back while blueprinting it. I have no stamp on my block. Wouldn't matter for the 67 anyway.

BEWARE. It is my impresion that the higher the stakes, the more BS you have to wade through. Keep your hips boots near and your eyes wide open.

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Chaas
Gold #62/ACES
67 SS396/L88

70 RickSS - You are right I don't have the original engine - but the previous owner knows where it is (or who it went to - could have changed hands since then but probably could be tracked down). The previous owner took this engine out - because it was "tired" and sold it. This engine that he took out was a 427 - he says that it was the original - but he's not guarenteing it - but it is probably worth checking. I will know if the previous owners friend still has it by middle of next week. I am trying to findout if it is a 427 car because like Gene Chas said restamping is a problem. Like I said before, the body is off the frame right now and I know for a fact that there is a single line going back to the gas tank - no vapour lines. It also looks like it is a 3/8 line but I will have to measure it. On one of the front fendors there is two screw holes where the Yenko emblem would go on a yenko Chevelle - going by the picture of one in Year One. Was this emblem installed by screws?

I will try contacting Oshawa on Monday.

Is a big block car's frame diff. then a small blocks frame?

Thanks a lot for all your help

MoparMan

Moparman I have been out of town but tomorrow I will go to the office and get you the phone number for GM they just sent us paper work on a 67 435 hp vette we just bought. I don"t want to rain on your parade but if your car was made in Canada it probably came with a stump puller engine .I think all copo cars were made in the US as Canada did not have the parts.

Moparman The phone number at GM is 8884676853 or 9056444060 the contact is George. Have your credit card and vin number ready and he will tell you what your car started life as. Keep us posted.

RickSS

Thanks I will phone that number. Thanks to all the other guys for the info - I appreciate it.

I'll try to make some progress the week and will keep you guys posted.

Mopar Man

Most of the 69 COPO Chevelles were made in Baltimore and a few were made in Fremont CA so they should have a B or Z in the vin. number. I have never heard that any COPO Chevelles were made in other assembly plants.

Big block frames and small block frames were the same, but the lower rear control arms were boxed on a big block car. It should also have a rear sway bar! Also, the front sway bar should measure about 1-1/8" in diameter instead of 7/8". And one other thing to check is if the front lower control arms have a round bushing in the rear bushing location. If this bushing is round, then it had a big block, but if it is oval, then it could have been a big block or small block. Also, does it have a 12 bolt rear? And did you look under the carpet and sound deadening mats for a build sheet? Did you look under the seats and above the gas tank, etc... for a build sheet? You must have if you have it off of the frame. Please list your cowl tag information, especially since it is a canadian car!

The '69 COPO Chevelle did not come with a rear stabilizer bar. Perhaps you could spec F41 (new rpo to Chevelles that year).
About 6 or 7 years ago I talked for hours with a stranger at the airport swap meet in Toronto. He told me of a '69 COPO he ordered new from Central Chev in London since his local dealer in Brantford didn't know about them. Anyway, he parted with the car many years back and began searching for it. His search ended at a scrap yard where the car had been flatten 6 months before... The engine had been rescued and exists somewhere in Ontario in a hot rod. (The guy also has a '68 Beaumont SD396 and was restoring a stripped down Biscayne-like Pontiac Strato Chief 427 4 speed that he ordered new).

I am restoring the COPO Chevelle which I bought new in 1969. List Price was $4436.50. The COPO package was $649.00. Two of my friends also bought COPO Chevelles at Beare Motors in Port Perry, Ontario as well.
These cars were identical to an L78 Chevelle except for the engine and the lack of SS396 badging. One of the cars had an SS enblem on the steering wheel. Mine had the blue bow tie and the third had Malibu. In standard form they had neither the F40 nor F41 suspension with its boxed rear lower control arms.
They all came with the 4:10 KQ positraction rear end, PDB, and L72 427. Anything available on the L78 cars could be had on the COPOs. The 4 speed cars like mine had the MQ engine code and the automatics had MP. The M20, M21, and M22 4 speeds were available as well as the Turbo 400 automatic. All the Canadian cars I have information on were built in Baltimore although they may have been built elsewhere. I doubt that Oshawa built any.
There is a light green COPO Chevelle getting out to the shows in the Burlington, Ontario area.
If your car was sold new in Canada, then GM will have the info on it. Just give them the VIN and $42 plus tax and the information is yours.
Dial 1-905-644-5000 and they can put you through to George Zapora, the main man in the department.

Here is the latest story on my car. The cowl tag decodes to a 350 with a
350tranny, Gold colour car, two tone paint moldings. The rivets holding
this cowl tag on are not original and since there is no serial code on this
tag I can't tell if it is original. Some of the signs of it being a COPO
are there I think - like it has holes in the front fendors where the studs
to an emblem would be (like the YENKO emblem). Also the front marker light
has no 307 or 350 emblem attached to it. Right now it has Malibu trim on
it and apparently it used to have an SS type hood on it. It has the trim
for a vinyl roof on it that is original. There is no build sheet on the
car.

MoparMan