Am I just a self centered SOB or do I have a point?

The short story is my wife tithes 10% of her gross income to the church. Hell or high water. And we are in both.

When I worked I made 6 figures plus. Her tithing made a dent in our disposable income but it didn't hurt the bottom line either. Since last December I've been unemployed and that has caused a drastic hardship money wise.

I took over an 88% pay cut because AZ has the distinction of being the lowest paying state for unemployment. Basically I get enough to pay for food for a family of 4 and gas money for my DD.

To make matters worse. I moved here in 2007. Since then the housing market has collapsed and I can't sell the house.

We've depleted out emergency savings and I started to cash out 401K money to supplement my paltry unemployment bennis. After the last 6 months it appears that I have successfully negotiated a loan modification and if we suck it up until I can find employment in my profession then we should be alright. Even If I have to take a job at a significantly lower income or if I have to take a job somewhere else we can at least rent the place and break even or come close.

At this point I can make three of my new payments before I completely run out of savings and would have to dip onto 401k money again. The wife OTH barely makes enough to cover the mortgage if she doesn't
tithe and we really economize.

We've discussed and argued over this for many months now. And I actually talked her into stopping in May.

So why am I griping? Early June I did a brake job on the wifes car. The dude who turned my rotors gave me some stuff called cheralub. Said to use it on the moving parts so they don't squeak etc etc. I never used it before so I gave it a try. Say the least it's real easy to get that crap all over the place. It made such a mess I didn't even use it on the drivers side. Two weeks later I took the kids up north to visit their freinds and I stayed with a freind. My el cheapo vacation. The wife calls and says her car is having problems and it's god punishing her for quiting tithing. Then the Toyota dealer calls me up there and tells me I need new LCA's and struts and parts and labor comes out to $2000! I told him don't do anything to my car and give it back to the wife.

I get back to town take it for a test drive, as soon as I hit the brakes I get a vibration. So I take off the caliper, pads and get out a brass wire brush w/ brake cleaner and give it a thorough cleaning and problem solved. All for about 45 min of my time.

However, the wife has started tithing again as she sees the car thing as a sign from god that she should not stop tithing. To it off, she's paying extra to catch up for missing May! I just found out last night. This is money we need to save in order buy a few more months in order to keep a roof over our head.

There's nothing I can do about it as we have separate accounts and she has the money taken directly from her paycheck.

Sorry to gripe about my personal problems but I'm beyond ready to blow a gasket on this one. More like punching a piston and rod through the block. To make matters worse there's kids involved so it's not like I can tell her take a hike and let god and the church figure out her life and me go rent a ***** shack somewhere intil my situation turns around.
:mad:

Wow Dave that does suck. I am church goer myself, but I believe there comes a point when one must look out for himself and his family before the church.

Not sure what to tell you, other than you really need to set her down and give her the full picture of what is about to happen to you and your family if she doesn't knock that crap off. Unless she thinks God is going to put a roof over her head and feed her kids it is time to look out for number one first.

It is definitely time to set her down and spell it all out and don't sugar coat a single part of it. It sounds to me as though she doesn't quite understand the seriousness of the situation.

Hopefully everything turns around for you soon

Jeff

I couldn't tolerate that at all, not sure how you do it. I'd probably fight with her until it ended up in a divorse. Giving money to the church makes God like me better? why? because some 'PEOPLE' said, not God. Ridiculous. I don't even bother going to church, if there is a God I'm sure he will judge me on my actions in life not how many times I went to some building. Tell her to go help out at a soup kitchen or some charity. Take the time to help out others in need isntead of throwing money away.

God doesnt have a bank account, guessing he stores the money under his cloud. Thsi sounds like guilt from percieved sin or something in your wifes head and the giving makes her feel ok or better for a time. All to common, from what I can tell, that guilt from perceived sin often leads to stuff like this. Sure she isnt trying to buy her way out of guilt for some reason? Not trying to talk bad about your wife, just a thought. I have an uncle that preaches all the time, does church all the time, does all this volunteer work and such as the expense of family time with the kids. He smokes a lot of weed, drinks a lot, scams my grandmother into covering him all the time.....and I finally figured out where all this comes from - he overdoes it at church to get rid of the guilt for everything else. He wont stop, wont apologize, just keeps on doing this crap. Then goes to church and washes it all off....then back at it.

How about an end around - talk to the pastor or whomever about this, see where they stand, say you need help because your wife (although you like to support the church and do all you can) is going nuts with the donations and wont stop and its at the expense of your families well being, relationship and children. Then have the man that represents gods bank account tell her to stop or counsel her.

I'm a financial analyst Mon - Fri and a church-goer on Sunday, so I can see both sides of this :) I think the two of you should schedule a meeting with your pastor and/or a faith-based marriage counselor, and I bet this could be hashed out fairly easily. If your pastor is any kind of Christian, I'm sure he would tell you it's OK to suspend tithing while you get back on your feet. JMHO.

EDIT: Just to clarify, your wife is likely really stressed out by the whole job-loss and financial situation, to the point where she isn't thinking clearly, and needs to hear from someone else that it's OK to temporarily give up tithing. Again, JMHO.

I hate to say this, but the deal with tithing, without quoting scripture is that when you contribute 10% of your income to the church, God is supposed to make sure that you're repaid sevenfold. It doesn't sound like that is or has been happening in your family's case.

Far too many people have retranslated and reinterpreted the book that I'd say it's meaning and intent has been reworded by man, and is really a means for the church to have money, and not necessarily a duty assigned to people by God to give money to the church.

Also from what I understand, God does not punish people, and is not in that business.

Odd that money is the root of all evil yet the church seems to be after it all the time. Organized religion is some expensive stuff.

No way god can repay you 7 fold. His stocks have tanked too, no way to pay the dividends to investors. Might be in forclosure soon.

No way god can repay you 7 fold. His stocks have tanked too, no way to pay the dividends to investors. Might be in forclosure soon.

God is all knowing so he was probably short GM.

Basically, tithing is something that allows churches to function. My personal opinion is that God doesn't need the money - he could care less, but it is an exercise for us. However, if times are hard, both God and the church would understand and not have an issue with not tithing. It is a matter of the heart.... not a law.

At our church, if it was something that was knowledge to the pastors that a family was in trouble, the church would assist in some way, either by giving food or money to the family. What good is a church that does not care for its' own people?

I have gone to mega-churches where the whole format was based on planting new churches - in other countries or sending people on missions.

Sorry - I see a need right in my own back yard. There are people hurting, homeless and schools falling apart. We help them... that is what is done. After all, it is the most important command in the Bible.

So before her tithing break, you know-back when you lost your job and were still trying to sell your house, where was her God? take a break to help yourself and God supposedly punishes you? huh.

I'm a financial analyst Mon - Fri and a church-goer on Sunday, so I can see both sides of this :) I think the two of you should schedule a meeting with your pastor and/or a faith-based marriage counselor, and I bet this could be hashed out fairly easily. If your pastor is any kind of Christian, I'm sure he would tell you it's OK to suspend tithing while you get back on your feet. JMHO.

EDIT: Just to clarify, your wife is likely really stressed out by the whole job-loss and financial situation, to the point where she isn't thinking clearly, and needs to hear from someone else that it's OK to temporarily give up tithing. Again, JMHO.

Very good advice here. And maybe a pre-visit visit to the Pastor wouldn't hurt for you either.....just to show him the graveness of the situation without your wife jumping in every two seconds....

lets look at this in a positive light. i'm a believer of circulating energy, for people that treat me right, i make sure they are taken care of, that includes my church.

you aren't going to change the wife's mind on this, and titheing isn't the only way to appease this situation.

sit the wife down and have a calm conversation. ask if there is another way to tithe? my wife did the church's books, and i have vounteered many times, and belong from time to time, on team (usher, clean-up/set-up etc...)

you may also ask her to keep a tab, while not titheing, and when your back on your feet, you promise to help her catch up a.s.a.p.

look, god helps those that help themselves, so reality is, you can't take care of him, till you are able to take care of yourself.

now i'm going to say something you may not be happy with. your wife needs to take a trip to the doctor. when times get tough, some people go into a level of unreality. she may be depressed, is she eating, sleeping well? i don't mean is she eating junk and sleeping when possible, i mean is she taking care of herself. are you taking care of each other?

you've decided to stay, and that doesn't mean screaming at each other, it means working with each other, and because your wife isn't seeing things clearly at this point, unfortunately it will fall on you. right now she feels under attack, her finances, family, etc. are in a manner she's having trouble with. she has found solice in her church. not uncommon, but a lot of churches have the "leave it to god" theory. where i go, they teach, "get off your ass and do something, and god will be there". to me at least, that is a big difference.

you are taking steps to get your situation back in line, and i hope you are successful. now it's time to get back to being a team, and that may take some counseling. when you work on cars, you need tools, marriage is no different, right now, you guys might need some new tools, that could be counseling, it might mean meds, it might mean diet change, life change, or any combination of things.

you want to try and keep out of the downward spiral. things get tough, people have a tendancy to skip meals, sleep less, or too much, stress over everything. you and the wife need to find a $3 theatre, need to get out in the air, maybe you could hit a service or two with her. play games with the kids. try to have a conversation or two that doesn't include your current situation.

if your going to stay, the kids need to see your still a family, and there is love and support in the house. they are learning from you, how to handle stress, and how to manage a family.

of course this is just me babbling as usual, but i want your situation to get better, and though venting is part of the process, sometimes a different set of eyes can help you see a new path. take care of yourself, help the wife take care of herself, and hopefully this spiral will end soon. hang in there, times are tough for most of us. it's the people who work threw it, that will be o.k.

Hey Beaux, you said: "Odd that money is the root of all evil...."

Where exactly does it say that? Tried looking it up?

Actually, the Book is smart, unlike most people. It knows money is an inanimate object like a rock or engine block, neither good or bad. What it does actually say is that love of money is the root of all evil, correctly laying responsibility at the feet of the people involved instead of trying to shift reponsibility for people's choices to nearby things.

Considering how long I've been on here I guess I shouldn't be surprised or disappointed at the hate and ignorance that pours out like sewage when the subject of God comes up. Christianity is about the only people group left that's politically OK to hate and smear. Never seems to be an end to the energy for that.

Davo, sounds like your wife is the main source of support right now, why not try being nice to her instead of going on the net and backstabbing her in public? You really don't look very good here. Looks like your sig needs an update too. :)

Most churches look for Time Treasure or talents. Maybe she would be willing to donate some free time to charity instead of cash. If you can't give one why not substitute it for another. That way everyone wins.

There's nothing I can do about it as we have separate accounts


There's the problem! your not really married.


Rocky

more religious brainwashing-Jimmy Jones got them to drink poison
i had a neighbor who was a preacher, sweet deal, no real estate tax because that was where the church let him live, made his house payments, salary was tax free, etc, etc
not saying people should not believe in something, but there are a lot of weak people
who get taken advantage of

Originally Posted by Georgia69
I'm a financial analyst Mon - Fri and a church-goer on Sunday, so I can see both sides of this I think the two of you should schedule a meeting with your pastor and/or a faith-based marriage counselor, and I bet this could be hashed out fairly easily. If your pastor is any kind of Christian, I'm sure he would tell you it's OK to suspend tithing while you get back on your feet. JMHO.
EDIT: Just to clarify, your wife is likely really stressed out by the whole job-loss and financial situation, to the point where she isn't thinking clearly, and needs to hear from someone else that it's OK to temporarily give up tithing. Again, JMHO.
Very good advice here. And maybe a pre-visit visit to the Pastor wouldn't hurt for you either.....just to show him the graveness of the situation without your wife jumping in every two seconds....
__________________

I guess I try this approach. It's about the only thing I can think of.

Tom, how do you get back stabbing out of this? YA she is the main support right now. IMO the church is coming first. When I was working and I found out about it I wasn't happy about it but I conceded it. I realize it's important for her to tithe. I'm trying to make sure I'm not out of line in my thinking that she should stop now until my employment situation changes. The amount she tithes, = the monthly elec, gas, garabage water and cable bill. She tithes first then pays the bills. If shes short for the bills it then goes on credit cards. Which is another problem.

If you dont give 10% you go to hell...? Give me a break. For gods sake grow a pair and stand up man. I would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints anyday. Period.

If shes short for the bills it then goes on credit cards. Which is another problem.

Cancel them

For gods sake grow a pair and stand up man.

The reality is if I said stop or I go. I'm gone. I'll try to have a chat with her pastor first.

Cancel them

Can't none are in my name. They were all opened w/o my permission or knowledge. The good thing about being laid off for so long is our credit has taken a serious hit. So all the limits have been reduced to her balances. So at least it isn't rising anymore.

So... if you don't mind, what church is it the she tithes to?

Come churches will make the 10% an unchangeable edict that - if you do not participate - you are going to hell. If this is that type of church, then they are teaching incorrect doctrine.

Raised a Christian, specifically, Lutheran (they have the best ski trips). Since adulthood, I personally never made it a weekly practice, but would accompany the family on occasion, usually religious holidays. Several years back, my boy played baby Jesus in a Christmas play. My wife invited a bunch a friends and family to the Christmas (eve) service. Frankly, I was embarrassed at the blatant a repeated soliciting of money, so much, that I haven't returned. Fell back on my earlier, bachelor rituals and beliefs.

Thank God for all your stuff, Bless it if it makes you feel better. Then everytime you drive your car, ride your bike, etc... it can be a religious experience.

I really try to stay out of religious debates, but you guys need to go back and re-read Tom's post. Just as the Bible never says "money is the root of all evil", neither does it say those who don't tithe are going to hell. Nor does it say those who do tithe are guaranteed heaven, or guaranteed anything else for that matter. It just says it's something you ought to do.

Hey Beaux, you said: "Odd that money is the root of all evil...."

Where exactly does it say that? Tried looking it up?

Actually, the Book is smart, unlike most people. It knows money is an inanimate object like a rock or engine block, neither good or bad. What it does actually say is that love of money is the root of all evil, correctly laying responsibility at the feet of the people involved instead of trying to shift reponsibility for people's choices to nearby things.

Considering how long I've been on here I guess I shouldn't be surprised or disappointed at the hate and ignorance that pours out like sewage when the subject of God comes up. Christianity is about the only people group left that's politically OK to hate and smear. Never seems to be an end to the energy for that.

Davo, sounds like your wife is the main source of support right now, why not try being nice to her instead of going on the net and backstabbing her in public? You really don't look very good here. Looks like your sig needs an update too. :)

:thumbsup:

I agree..... hopefully my post did not convey any disagreement with Toms....

Money is such an issue with churches because of the past indiscretions that churches have taken.... and this has happened for centuries! No wonder people cast a jaundiced eye towards religion. I can't blame them a bit.

At least Christians won't cut your head off if you believe something different.

The reality is if I said stop or I go. I'm gone. I'll try to have a chat with her pastor first.



Can't none are in my name. They were all opened w/o my permission or knowledge. The good thing about being laid off for so long is our credit has taken a serious hit. So all the limits have been reduced to her balances. So at least it isn't rising anymore.

If she is that serious about religion, what about the parts of the bible that state that a woman is supposed to take care of her man and support him in his decisions? ( generally speaking of course)

"To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed" (Titus 2:5)

I feel sorry for you. I would never ever let someone put me in your position. You really need to put your foot down on this subject.

I hate to say it Dave, but it sounds like there are more issues in the relationship than just the tithing.... I have to agree with Kyle on this one.

Maybe Kyle is right! Maybe she should take that part serious which means she should quit her job and be supported by her husband like he is supposed to do according to the book! Then he will have all the say on the money issues! End of the arguement!:thumbsup:

God is all knowing so he was probably short GM.

And Bought a lot of PUTS. :D

Naw...... they should be a team. Where does it say that a woman shouldn't work?

Maybe Kyle is right! Maybe she should take that part serious which means she should quit her job and be supported by her husband like he is supposed to do according to the book! Then he will have all the say on the money issues! End of the arguement!:thumbsup:

John, what I get from that quote is that a woman should respect her husbands decisions. If he says to her they need to stop tithing because they cannot afford it, then it should be stopped. Im sure the church would understand her putting her family first when it comes to money.

Hey Beaux, you said: "Odd that money is the root of all evil...."

Where exactly does it say that? Tried looking it up?

Actually, the Book is smart, unlike most people. It knows money is an inanimate object like a rock or engine block, neither good or bad. What it does actually say is that love of money is the root of all evil, correctly laying responsibility at the feet of the people involved instead of trying to shift reponsibility for people's choices to nearby things.

Considering how long I've been on here I guess I shouldn't be surprised or disappointed at the hate and ignorance that pours out like sewage when the subject of God comes up. Christianity is about the only people group left that's politically OK to hate and smear. Never seems to be an end to the energy for that.

Davo, sounds like your wife is the main source of support right now, why not try being nice to her instead of going on the net and backstabbing her in public? You really don't look very good here. Looks like your sig needs an update too. :)


Didnt mean to imply any kind of hate there at all and although now that I read it again it does seem to imply that I thought that was in the bible . I readily admit my ignorance on the book itself but I wasnt referring to the book when I wrote that - just the saying. Apologies if that was misconstrued. I am not anti belief, religion, etc. but have to admit I am adamantly opposed to organized religion. Not hate, just dont get it and not my thing - lots of hypocrisy and corruption. Like pastors that have been busted for stealing from their own congregation and buying condos and investing the money and losing it. I dont have the ability to forgive or forget so im not welcome in the Christian world...revenge is too sweet to give up.

I need confirmation - are there deeply religious folks out there that have a sense of humor and can laugh at themselves and their own religion or understand the criticism given what the "church" has been through these last 10 years?

oh, and there is and always will be only ONE group thats its politically OK to smear. But that group is a specific race and a specific gender, not a religion. ;)

... you are picking on Polish people?

... you are picking on Polish people?

:D

lol Good show.

The only people begging for money more than churches are my kid's schools.

The only people begging for money more than churches are my kid's schools.

Guess you are overlooking the 40 million people who want the rest of us to pay for their health care :)

Beaux,

I've noticed on several occasions that churches don't seem to have a corner on the market on hypocrisy and corruption.

I'm a member of a church that collects large amounts of money (large to me anyway, not a drop in the bucket compared to some orgs, church or non-church). I see that two of the largest line items in our budget are for operating orphanages in rural Mexico and rural India. You'd certainly be welcome to help out, seems like the opportunities for hypocrisy and corruption are somewhat limited there. Also, there's a project coming up where we'll be co-operating with some other churches to drill fresh water wells in rural Mexican locations where they currently drink water that looks like stuff we'd flush down toilets here. Wonderful opportunity to observe corruption in it's native state there, it looks like we are going to have to pay "fees" to certain local officials to get the required permits to drill. And it's their relatives who are drinking the stuff they call water there now. Nice.

Can take that 10% of your income, come up with an hourly salary, and have her donate those hours to the church weekly?

do what i do. when it comes time for collection, i take all the money i have on me, toss it up in the air. what god catches is his what falls back to the ground is mine...... sorry thought it was time for a little humor. chuck

Guess you are overlooking the 40 million people who want the rest of us to pay for their health care :)

No, I pay through the nose for healthcare, and my wife even works at a hospital. Healthcare is one of those things people bitch about paying for, then go say they're going to screw thier insurance and order everything they can have done since they pay so much already. My opinion is that too much money is being spent on health issues that could/SHOULD have been prevented by the self-centered me-me-me people who didn't think something could ever happen to them..... gee, I am fat. Must be genetics, not the fact that I am a buffet molester. Gee, my skin hurts and looks like leather from overexposure to the sun, instead of spending $2000 over my lifetime to buy spf50, I'll deal with painful treatments later? There are plenty of other things that people can't forsee or prevent too, don't get me wrong, I lost my mom at 57 and dad at 61, but if we all pay, will there be a multi-tier system based on how much you make, or will everyone get the same treatment? (we all know the answer)

I need to buy tennis balls every year, though no tennis lessons are taught (go on the chair feet), I need to buy dry erase markers for the teachers to use, kleenex boxes and band-aids for the nurse. All the supplies are pooled, so nobody goes without, but if you don't buy them you get a nastygram. I'm surprised that they don't have a sign up sheet for mowing the fields.

I like the idea of donating time to the church vs money. You're still contributing, and if they are opposed to your time vs the cash, you know what they're REALLY in it for.

Ha! Actually, I think this thread has progressed fairly well without anyone getting all uptight. We all know that there will be people that don't agree when it comes to religion (or relationships) but so far, we have all been grown up about it and have had a good discussion.

2 Corinthians 9:7 "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."

If you're giving to the Church, or anything God-related, because you feel like you have to, you're not following God's purpose or pleasing God. Of course, I assume you're talking about some kind of real Christian church here, not the Mormons (LDS). If it's the Mormons, they say 10% is absolutely maditory (they don't care what the Bible says). But, if that's the case you've got a bigger problem than the money, try to get your wife out of that sick cult asap! :)

If it's the Mormons, you've got a bigger problem than the money, try to get your wife out of that sick cult asap! :)

What's wrong with the Mormon religion?

Well, they pose as Christains in an attempt to sucker people into their cult where they teach (among many other anti-Christian teachings) that God was once a man and man can become a God someday also. They hide this, as well as a lot of their other anti-Christian teachings, in an attempt to fool people who seek a Christian religion.

1 Timothy 6:10 "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." This may be what you're thinking of when you think of "The love of money is the root of all evil".

Funny but this thread reminded me of a church or a supposed chuch my mom got tied up with! (pun intended)
They had their members sign a paper with the chuch pledging that they would tigh every week and even had them disclose thier income on the paper.
Guess no one read it and when people would leave the church or stop paying they were turned over to a collection agency! They even took my mom and others to court! Seems the Ministers wife was a notary and all the forms were notarized and the Judge ruled they were legal and binding contracts!
He did exclude people that quit the church from further action but said they owed up until the time they left!
They were included in my mom's bankruptcy though!:D

Is it no wonder that 'religion' gets such a bad name with stuff like that going on? Amazing story!

I think the two of you should schedule a meeting with your pastor and/or a faith-based marriage counselor, and I bet this could be hashed out fairly easily. If your pastor is any kind of Christian, I'm sure he would tell you it's OK to suspend tithing while you get back on your feet. JMHO.


I agree...

IF your wife is a Christian, she should know that God will not punisher her... God will NOT make her feel guilty, even if she didn't have a reason for stopping her charity...

God knows if you are having financial problems along with stress in you relationship, then you should do what you need to make your selves happy...

Afterall, Only God and herself, know whats really in her heart... If she's a good caring, "giving" person, then God will be happy... He gives us our own crosses to bear...

God wants us to help, and share, and not be greedy. But God will NOT punish her for temporarily eliminating her gifts...

Try to talk to you wife, and see if she can do voluteer work, instead of "cash"... Afterall, God doesn't need the cash. The "cash" is only some "man's" idea of what will solve the worlds (or his church's) problems...

And honestly, if her pastor still wants her to continue giving money, then he is EVIL, pure and simple...


WHERE, in what book of the bible does it say you have to give at all, especially 10%???


This is a problem I see with most religions; "men" running the church aren't always thinking of what God really wants... They either 'think" they know, or they are scheister's...

I need confirmation - are there deeply religious folks out there that have a sense of humor and can laugh at themselves and their own religion or understand the criticism given what the "church" has been through these last 10 years?


Not sure if I am 'deeply" religious... I try to treat everybody with respect... I am Catholic, but I don't like alot of the "rulings" and "business" of the Catholic Church... IMO, all these churches are run by 'men"... And as such, many of the leaders (all religions, IMO) are NOT guided by God, and I honestly think many leaders (or people involved) are actually EVIL...

I have met many priests etc within the church, that have a great sense of humor, and also are honest, passionate people, and many of them have seen the "corruption"...

Personally, I got pissed at the Catholic church several times... recently, we were told to use envelopes (with tracking "family" numbers on them) for donations... I told the chuch that what I decide to give is between me and God... i was told that the local church keeps track, and it might keep my daughter from attending the local Catholic school (waiting list anyway), because some other families might be willing to give more... I basically asked them (office workers) if they were happy for acting in such a non-Christian way...


... you are picking on Polish people?

Fuuny, I was actually thinking the same thing... :D

Hey Beaux, you said: "Odd that money is the root of all evil...."

Where exactly does it say that? Tried looking it up?

Actually, the Book is smart, unlike most people. It knows money is an inanimate object like a rock or engine block, neither good or bad. What it does actually say is that love of money is the root of all evil, correctly laying responsibility at the feet of the people involved instead of trying to shift reponsibility for people's choices to nearby things.

Considering how long I've been on here I guess I shouldn't be surprised or disappointed at the hate and ignorance that pours out like sewage when the subject of God comes up. Christianity is about the only people group left that's politically OK to hate and smear. Never seems to be an end to the energy for that.

Davo, sounds like your wife is the main source of support right now, why not try being nice to her instead of going on the net and backstabbing her in public? You really don't look very good here. Looks like your sig needs an update too. :)

I'm with you Tom!

There's the problem! your not really married.


Rockymy wife and i have separate accounts too. if we didnt we would both be broke and nothing would get paid

I want to present this from a Biblical perspective. God does not want your money. He does not need your money. Do you honestly believe man has anything God would want, speaking of material things of course? What God wants is your heart. He wants your devotion. He wants your obedience. He wants you to be faithful to Him just as He is ever faithful to us. Have you tried presenting your problems to Him in prayer? That's the issue here. You are trying to control things that are out of your control. Trust me when I say you need to lay all this at the foot of the cross instead of on a website message board. You're griping and grumbling when you need to be praying.

Next, on the issue of tithing, all that we have belongs to God. It's not ours. He created all of this and us, and it's all His. We are merely giving back 10% of what He has blessed us with. It's an outward sign of gratitude and faith. But when you give, you must give willingly. You must be a cheerful giver. If you give with the wrong attitude, if you gripe and grumble, don't ask why you're not prospering.

God loves a cheerful giver. And when you give with the right attitude, it is okay to give expectantly. Does God expect you to keep on giving your tithe when hard times fall upon you? No, of course not. I don't give 10% but I do give what i can. I am here to testify that I have been faithfully rewarded. The day I went and set up contribution to come out of my bank account, I received a phone call from my supervisor telling that we had received a surprise bonus. Not a coincidence. The day after I increased my contribution some six months later, I went to work and was told of an accounting error on our Christmas bonus from 10 months earlier that was about $300 in our favor. Again, an unexpected bonus and again, not a coincidence. Both times when I cheerfully and willingly gave, I was rewarded.

Our church feeds hundreds of children during the summer who normally receive free school lunches during the school year. We support missions, we provide shelter during emergencies like Katrina and Ike. And we pay utility bills on the building just anyone else. That money comes from contributions. Do not confuse the majority of churches in America with deep pocket corporations or even with the TV based ministries.

I agree with Mike Newby's advice. A sit down with the pastor and some Christian based counseling is needed, because this issue is going to eat away at your marriage.

I have been down this road and been in a far worse place, and I don't know what would have become of me or my family had we not laid our burdens on Jesus Christ and asked Him to carry us. Those of you who know me know full well what I'm talking about. My friend, I say this in the spirit of brotherly love and fellowship. seek a relationship with God. There are larger issues here.

Not sure if I am 'deeply" religious... I try to treat everybody with respect... I am Catholic, but I don't like alot of the "rulings" and "business" of the Catholic Church... IMO, all these churches are run by 'men"... And as such, many of the leaders (all religions, IMO) are NOT guided by God, and I honestly think many leaders (or people involved) are actually EVIL...

I have met many priests etc within the church, that have a great sense of humor, and also are honest, passionate people, and many of them have seen the "corruption"...

Personally, I got pissed at the Catholic church several times... recently, we were told to use envelopes (with tracking "family" numbers on them) for donations... I told the chuch that what I decide to give is between me and God... i was told that the local church keeps track, and it might keep my daughter from attending the local Catholic school (waiting list anyway), because some other families might be willing to give more... I basically asked them (office workers) if they were happy for acting in such a non-Christian way...




Fuuny, I was actually thinking the same thing... :D

You do have that. There are a lot of pastors in the Christian church in America who don't even use the Bible to prepare their sermons. The best advice I can give anyone is to find a Bible based church.

And keep in mind there is a world of difference between religion and faith. Jesus dealt with this issue in his criticism of the Pharisees. The Apostle Paul had to deal with false teachings of legalistic Jews who professed their faith in Christ, but insisted that it was still necessary to adhere to Mosaic Law to be saved. We're still dealing with this issue today.

Randy said it all in one line. He gives what he can!:thumbsup:

You need to talk to the Pastor and expain your delema and have him explain to her that it isn't neccessary to always give the 10%.
If he truly is a Man of God he will gladly do this!:)

my wife and i have separate accounts too. if we didnt we would both be broke and nothing would get paid

The only way to go! Had big problems with a joint account 20 years ago.Smooth sailing since separate accounts.

Can take that 10% of your income, come up with an hourly salary, and have her donate those hours to the church weekly?


I've already tried that. For those that say sack up and put my foot down. If I tell her it's me or tithing then I'm out the door.

Plus. I guess I am a p*ssy cause out the door means I will have to take a job no matter what. Unemployment here pays $950/month which is not enough to survive on. If I were to find a job with decent pay at what I do it means packing up and moving out of state. I'm not ready to go from spending everyday with my kids to seeing them once a month or a couple of months every summer.

I have a meeting tomorrow morning with her pastor to discuss this issue. Hopefully, I can figure out if this is a legit church or if it's more cultish and they got her convinced she has to do it no matter what. BTW, this was never an issue until we moved here and the wife started attending this church.

what church is it?

Odd that money is the root of all evil yet the church seems to be after it all the time. Organized religion is some expensive stuff.

No way god can repay you 7 fold. His stocks have tanked too, no way to pay the dividends to investors. Might be in forclosure soon.

Money is not the root of evil..............read it again, it is the "LOVE" of money. If you lay 20 bucks down on the table is it going to hurt you ? No, but the persuit of the money can lead to evil and deviate you away from God.

And He is hardly tanked, it all belongs to Him. Read the book.

I don't worry about the hypocrits, only my relationship with GOD. Someone once told me that the hypocrit is closer to GOD than me due to they were standing between me and GOD. Makes you think.
Great narrative, Randy Mosier.

ANYWAY

People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered; forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives; be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies; succeed anyway.
If you are honest and frank people may cheat you; be honest and frank anyway.
What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight; build anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous; be happy anyway.
The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; do good anyway.
Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough; give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and GOD; it was never between you and them anyway.

You shouldn't have to pay for your religious beliefs......

I'm glad I never got tied up in organized religion!!!!

I have a meeting tomorrow morning with her pastor to discuss this issue. Hopefully, I can figure out if this is a legit church or if it's more cultish and they got her convinced she has to do it no matter what. BTW, this was never an issue until we moved here and the wife started attending this church.

you know, your having a hard time, and i don't mean to kick you when your down, but your not getting it. it doesn't matter what you think of her church, and this may be part of your issues, your not supporting her.... i would take any job over unemployment, till i could get back in my field. don't stay for the kids, you are only making them more misreable.

you and your wife need a whole new approach. is what your doing now working for you? nope, but keep doing what your doing, and then get frustrated when you keep getting the same outcome.

you guys are kicking each others ass, and kicking your kids ass, and no matter what you think, the whole dynamic is of kilter. it's a typical reaction to stress, it's called attack and defend. you are attacking each other, then defending your actions. you need couseling. a lot on here will disagree, and i'm not telling you to get some geek who only answers with "how does this make you feel? i'm talking get somebody who will help you get the tools you need to get this thing going in the right direction. to get you two to communivate without beating each other up.

in reality this is far beyond anything we can tell you. and whether it's a minister, or paid counsler, you need help. we can all give you opinions, and tell you what worked for us, but we're not you or your wife, and to be fair, we're not hearing her side.

also, kids would rather have one great day a week with thier parents, than listen to them bicker 24/7, so even though your not ready to see your kids only on the weekends, it may be the way to go for awhile.

you can't use the kids as a justifcation to stay, when the rest of it is a mess. either you and the wife need to find a way to pull it together, or seperate and work on getting it back together.

your kids need a family, they need you and the wife to show them how to manage a family, they need you to show them how to administer respect, even when you don't agree. just because you and the wife don't see eye to eye, doesn't mean you are wrong. she may see you being on unemployment as a bad thing. you see her titheing as a bad thing....

for those of you who have a problem with titheing, here's how i look at it. what value am i getting and what do i think it's worth? i go to a movie, pop 40-50 to have a nice evening with the wife. some spend hundreds to see a hockey game or nascar. no matter what adds value to your life, there is almost a monetary cost to it. whether that's gas $ getting there, the equiptment to do it, the time involved, etc. so it always amazes me when people get all up in arms over titheing.

i have a friend who goes to hockey, alot, spends thousands on it every season. we went to see a speaker once, supposedly this speaker changed his life, and was actually an amazing person. as we walked out, i gave $ for this expierence, my friend just walked out, he said it would take care of itself. let me see, hockey game = couple hundred dollars, life changing speach = zero, nada, zilch.

Money is not the root of evil..............read it again, it is the "LOVE" of money. If you lay 20 bucks down on the table is it going to hurt you ? No, but the persuit of the money can lead to evil and deviate you away from God.

And He is hardly tanked, it all belongs to Him. Read the book.

Thanks. With the repost of Toms stuff and others I think you are like the 4th or 5th guy to repeat this. So I will ask you guys to go back and read my reply to Toms initial objection where I stated why I wrote that and that it wasnt in reference to the book.


Might step back a bit further in the thread where I was the first guy to recommend involving the pastor with the wife to work this out together.

Even better - ask God what I meant

[QUOTE=1966_L78;2417194]
WHERE, in what book of the bible does it say you have to give at all, especially 10%???
QUOTE]

I think it is from the old testament leviticus 27:26-33.
It's mentioned levitcus 27:32
'For every tenth part of herd or flock, whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the LORD. That is from the New American Standard version

Money is not the root of evil..............read it again, it is the "LOVE" of money. If you lay 20 bucks down on the table is it going to hurt you ? No, but the persuit of the money can lead to evil and deviate you away from God.

And He is hardly tanked, it all belongs to Him. Read the book.

Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

65IMP SS...Old Testament vs New Testament.... old covenant vs new covenant.

You can't really pick and choose from the old to the new based on what someone is trying to prove. The Jews work from the Old because they do not believe that the Messiah has come yet. Christians ( and organized religions) believe that the new covenant is what should be used because the death of Christ ushered in the new, so if my pastor was telling me to obey things from the old (just some of them) and also from the new... I would have a problem with that. I do not want to keep the Jewish law and follow 600 plus rules.... no way. Make it simple - make it easy and this is what happened.

II have a meeting tomorrow morning with her pastor to discuss this issue. Hopefully, I can figure out if this is a legit church or if it's more cultish and they got her convinced she has to do it no matter what. BTW, this was never an issue until we moved here and the wife started attending this church.

Dave, I wish I had known about this meeting beforehand. But my advice to anyone who is checking out a church is first, go in with an open mind. Also, seek God's guidance in prayer because yes, there are false teachers out there. Jesus warns us about this. But always, before you meet with men, first meet with God.

Next, you need to ask if this is a Bible based church. Are his sermons based on Bible passages? Does he use the Bible to prepare his sermons? Does the offer Bible study, and is it really Bible study or just a social club?
And if you really want to hit home, ask the pastor if he has been saved, if he believes that salvation comes by faith ALONE and not by works, and if God's grace can be earned or if it's freely given to those who accept His Son as their savior.

If any pastor says God's grace can be earned by works or good deeds, by making donations to his church, or by strict tithing with no exceptions, then run. There are pastors out there who appear credible, but they do not have the Holy Spirit in them. That's why you need to ask God for His discernment, so you can tell if this person and his church is the real deal or not.

I don't know what your level of Biblical knowledge is. It's easier to tell if the real deal from the pretenders when you have knowledge of the scripture yourself. Think about this. If, and I say IF this person is a fake, you will need to immerse yourself in Bible study to expose him. That's your only weapon against a false teacher. Consider the possibility that this might be God's way of getting you to do just that. And also consider the possibility that this pastor is the real deal, and that you do have some issues to work out with God.

Good luck, and don't hesitate to e-mail me at home if you need any advice.
rj.rj2@verizon.net

65IMP SS...Old Testament vs New Testament.... old covenant vs new covenant.

You can't really pick and choose from the old to the new based on what someone is trying to prove. The Jews work from the Old because they do not believe that the Messiah has come yet. Christians ( and organized religions) believe that the new covenant is what should be used because the death of Christ ushered in the new, so if my pastor was telling me to obey things from the old (just some of them) and also from the new... I would have a problem with that. I do not want to keep the Jewish law and follow 600 plus rules.... no way. Make it simple - make it easy and this is what happened.

Remember, you must make the distinction between the Mossaic Law with all its rules, regulations, traditions, and strict interpretations that were imposed on it by men, and God's Law, which is basically the Ten Commandments and the rules for sin offerings, guilt offerings, etc. The book of Galatians is a good study on this subject.

The Law itself could save no one. No one had ever perfectly kept the law. Not even King David perfectly kept the law. The law was put into place to expose the sinful nature. Christ died so that we would be forgiven.

When Jesus came into the world many of the Jews at the time could not believe this was their savior, They viewed their savior as this great military leader who would restore the 12 tribes of Israel. They did not expect this person who preached about love and salvation through faith.

But to get back on track, The Old and New Testaments are intertwined. If you have never read the Old Testament, much of what's written in the New Testament won't make much sense. If you've never read the New Testament, you won't have a complete understanding of God's plan for us. As one of my friends stated, the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.

You don't have enough faith. God doesn't care about your money. When you tithes %10 you are putting faith that that money will go to some one in need. It says in the bible to tithe %10. Churches don't come up with this rule. It's in the bible. We are supposed to have faith and trust in God during good times and bad times. We could all use the extra money by not tithing but we are letting our feelings get in the way. Trust me it hurts me too when I write out my checks for $600 a month for tithes.

Your tithes help the church survive which inturn will spread the word of god throughout your community. Our church feeds 1 million people a year and we do so many things throughout the community. We preach to the homeless and even have prison ministries.

So many people only know god in thier minds. We all know who God is but how many people actually know him in thier hearts? The bible says living in the flesh is darkness and living by the holy spirit brings light. When we tithe our flesh hates it because we know that we could be spending that money on stuff like big blocks and parts from summitracing.com. God does so much for us all but we don't know it. If we show faith especially during the hard times he will guide us through the right path if we listen to him.

I hate to say it but you are living with not much faith. You do not understand what your wife understands. You two are unequally yoked when it comes to this matter.

I used to be the same way. I used to never believe in the church stuff. Now that I am learning about The bible and God I am a totally different person. I no longer just think about money and having posessions. I still want them but I just have a different perspecitve on life now. I no longer stress about money.

No matter what issue one may have in this life. You can always open the bible and your issue will be addressed in the bible. The bible is a life book that will guide you and help you.

True, Randy... they are intertwined and what you say is right on. Thank you.

10%....I don't think so especially not in your situation. God knows where my money is so if he needs it he will find it. My father in law blew his head off last week...I guess GOD was counting his money when that happened (Sorry I am not very happy with my maker right now)! I believe in a higher power but the bible is parable on how to live your life written by men just like the Koran and every other book on religion. Live your life well and treat people like you would like to be treated and help those that can't help themselves...that's what counts. Going to church every Sunday isn't going to save anyone and neither is giving your money to the church. I hope your situations turns for the better. I feel for all the good people that have lost their jobs. In the end family is what matters.

10%....I don't think so especially not in your situation. God knows where my money is so if he needs it he will find it. My father in law blew his head off last week...I guess GOD was counting his money when that happened (Sorry I am not very happy with my maker right now)! I believe in a higher power but the bible is parable on how to live your life written by men just like the Koran and every other book on religion. Live your life well and treat people like you would like to be treated and help those that can't help themselves...that's what counts. Going to church every Sunday isn't going to save anyone and neither is giving your money to the church. I hope your situations turns for the better. I feel for all the good people that have lost their jobs. In the end family is what matters.


Very well said! My sentiments exactly. Sorry for your loss.


Rocky

10%....I don't think so especially not in your situation. God knows where my money is so if he needs it he will find it. My father in law blew his head off last week...I guess GOD was counting his money when that happened (Sorry I am not very happy with my maker right now)! I believe in a higher power but the bible is parable on how to live your life written by men just like the Koran and every other book on religion. Live your life well and treat people like you would like to be treated and help those that can't help themselves...that's what counts. Going to church every Sunday isn't going to save anyone and neither is giving your money to the church. I hope your situations turns for the better. I feel for all the good people that have lost their jobs. In the end family is what matters.

I want to share something with your written by David Jeremiah that I only a for the first time just a few minutes ago, and please consider that this is God's perfect timing at work.

My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials.
James 1:2
Recommended Reading
1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 (http://www.turningpointonline.org/site/R?i=EEb0ksRAD_rzHJjN7z3yqg..)

No small amount of harm has been done by well-intentioned Christians who misquote a particular Bible verse when attempting to comfort the grieving: "Don't forget that Scripture says to, ‘Give thanks for all things.'" Actually, 1 Thessalonians 5:18 doesn't say, "For everything give thanks;" it says, "In everything give thanks." And there is a world of difference between those two small words.
The Bible doesn't say we should rejoice and give thanks for the event that has caused our grief, suffering, or impatience—a lost job, the death of a loved one, or an unmet expectation. But it does say we should give thanks in (in the midst of) that situation. And why should we do that? Because giving thanks to God is an expression of our confident faith that He is aware of our situation and our need. The Bible is filled with expressions and promises that give us reason to trust God in the midst of trials and tribulations (Matthew 6:25-34; Luke 11:11-13; 2 Corinthians 9:8; Philippians 4:19).
Joy and thanksgiving in the midst of troubles are not normal in this world. But that is why we are exhorted to express them. Joy in the midst of trials is another sign that we are in, but not of, this world.
Joy is the serious business of heaven.

You are exactly right when you say no one can be saved by going to church every Sunday or by giving to the church. A lot of rich people think they can buy their way into heaven, and it ain't gonna happen. There is only one way into heaven, and that is through faith in Jesus Christ. Church is where we Christians gather to hear God's word, to offer and receive spiritual encouragement, and to support one another in fellowship.

God is faithful and His promises are sure. But He does not promise us a life free from trials and hardships if we believe in him. Remember the story of the disciples crossing the sea when a storm came up that threatened to swamp the boat? Jesus was in the back of boat asleep and the disciple awoke him and begged Him to save them. "You of little faith" he told them meaning that they were never in real danger. But he calmed the wind and the waves to illustrate God's glory. What's important to remember here is this, just because you have Jesus in your boat, it doesn't mean you won't sail through storms in life.

My three year old grandson was taken from us about 2 and half years ago. I reached a point where I had to choose between two paths, one that would destroy my life, and one that would save it. There were people I held responsible for his death. And with CPS threatening to take his sister and put her in foster care, I was almost to the point where I was ready to take matters into my own hands. I won't be graphic, but you can use your imagination. But I was very close to doing something that would have sent me to prison for the rest of my life, closer than I realized at the time.

When I came to that crossroad, I put the burden I was carrying at the foot of the cross. I didn't ask God where he was when my grandson lay dying in the emergency room. As I came to learn later, Ian (that was my grandson's name) was never mine to begin with. Ian was one of God's children, as we all are.

One of God's greatest gifts to us is that of free will. Your father-in-law used his freedom to do what he did. Do not think for one minute that God did not grieve over him. But don't blame God for this. Ask God for His guidance and find a way to make ir work for good, for we are taught in Romans 8:28, "And we know that in all things, God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."

Notice what that said, it said IN ALL THINGS, not in some things, not in chosen things, not in all things except.........

This is the greatest lesson I have learned, that God can take ANY circumstance in our lives, and make it work for good.

Pleas, if you need to contact me, e-mail me at rj.rj2@verizon.net.

Dave: Any luck meeting with the pastor?

Randy, thanks for taking time and having the cojones to post that experience. Glad you were blessed with the strength to choose the the path you did. Often it's easier to just let rage take over and strike out.

10%....I don't think so especially not in your situation. God knows where my money is so if he needs it he will find it. My father in law blew his head off last week...I guess GOD was counting his money when that happened (Sorry I am not very happy with my maker right now)! I believe in a higher power but the bible is parable on how to live your life written by men just like the Koran and every other book on religion. Live your life well and treat people like you would like to be treated and help those that can't help themselves...that's what counts. Going to church every Sunday isn't going to save anyone and neither is giving your money to the church. I hope your situations turns for the better. I feel for all the good people that have lost their jobs. In the end family is what matters.

Sorry to hear of the loss but God had nothing to do with it at all!
He made his own choice (we are all free to chose our own path) which in my opinon was a bad one to say the least!:sad:

Dave: Any luck meeting with the pastor?

No. Not at all. Now I understand why the wife will not be flexible at all during this tough time.

Oh ya, I was told it's 10% of gross not net.

cromedss sorry to hear about your loss.

No. Not at all. Now I understand why the wife will not be flexible at all during this tough time.

Oh ya, I was told it's 10% of gross not net.

cromedss sorry to hear about your loss.

I just want you to know that I am very concerned about your situation. I'm concerned about your spiritual well being, as well as your marriage.

All I know of this is your side of the story. So all I can really offer is my opinion based on the past two years of Bible study and the lessons learned from our pastor's sermons.

First and foremost, your pastor, my pastor, ANY pastor, should be concerned about your salvation and where you will spend eternity. He should be obedient to the command in the Great Commission, Matthew 28:16-20. Helping lead you to Christ should be his mission. Doing anything that would cause you to fall away from God goes against everything Jesus taught. This includes being unreasonably rigid about your gift to the church and insisting that you continue giving a tenth even when you're worried about making your mortgage. If that is the case, and again, I don't know for sure if it is, but if that is the case, then he is going directly against the teachings in the book James.

I want to share this from James:

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.



Now I will show my faith by what I'm about to do. I have a little extra money. It's not much, believe me. I want to share it with you. I want to urge all my other Christian brothers to do the same, $10, $20, send what they can spare to help you through this rough spot. $10 or $20 is about all I can send but it's yours. If you'll post an address where this can be mailed to, I'll send it out as soon as I can get to the post office to get a money order.


DO NOT think of this as charity. I know we can be proud that way sometimes. No, this is not charity. When you're back on your feet, the expectation is for you to pass this along to someone else in need in the spirit of Godliness.



Post a name and address but if you're not comfortable with posting that info on a public forum, e-mail it to me and anyone interested in helping out can e-mail me and I will pass that info to them. My e-mail is rj.rj2@verizon.net



God bless my friend and I pray that you will get through this trial in your life.

I did not read through all of the posts so, if somebody already posted this I apologize. The way it works in the church I belong to 10% tithing is expected but, if the family has fallen on hard times, the church is expected to help them. The help could be in the form of food donations or paying some of the bills. I belive that your church has an obligation to help you in your time of need.

Now I will show my faith by what I'm about to do. I have a little extra money. It's not much, believe me. I want to share it with you. I want to urge all my other Christian brothers to do the same, $10, $20, send what they can spare to help you through this rough spot. $10 or $20 is about all I can send but it's yours.

Thanks for the offer Randy buts thats not neccessary. It wouldn't be right for me to take money for help at this point. Besides I'm still a ways off before I'm "kicked to the curb", so to speak.

I still have money in 401K and assests like my Chevelle and some guns, and furniture I could sell before it ever came to that. Problem is the 10% penalty + tax implications for early withdrawls or selling those "assests" at a fairly significant loss compared to what I paid for or put into them.

I guess the whole point was, the way things are now if the wife stopped or suspended tithing we could suck it up and scrape by and not have to cash in 401K money or sell our possesions until I could find a decent job.

But before that happens, in reality what will most likely happen is I will have to take a job in another state and leave the family here. I've already uprooted the family 2 years ago to come out here to avoid the situation I am in now. Turns out I'm worse off now than before.

Ironically, the most jobs I'm qualified for are being advertised in Texas.

but, if the family has fallen on hard times, the church is expected to help them.

I don't want their help. Except maybe to realize given our situation they could tell her it's OK to tithe a little less temporarily. According to the wife and the pastor I talked to, what I'm asking for is unreasonable.

I really try to stay out of religious debates, but you guys need to go back and re-read Tom's post. Just as the Bible never says "money is the root of all evil", neither does it say those who don't tithe are going to hell. Nor does it say those who do tithe are guaranteed heaven, or guaranteed anything else for that matter. It just says it's something you ought to do.

I am not terribly religious but have gone to church regularly before. Baptized a Presbeterian as a child, but parents weren't really into the church thing. I was dating this Cathlolic lady and was going to church each Sunday with her and I really sort of liked it, to a point.

When I realized that in a Catholic churches eyes, I am forever banished to purgatory unless I renounce my being baptized a Presbeterian and be "reborn" as a Catholic Christian, that sort of soured the taste in my mouth. I mean, they all worship a man on a cross, how does Cathlolic or Presbeterian or Protestant or Baptist make any difference? For that matter include Buddist or Muslum. I mean, in my mind its about being a good person. A good person at home, at work, with your family and with the stranger that is down and out. It doesn't take worship or a church or anything of that sort for me to realize this.

I like the fact that in general the church is a positive thing, good people that really want to help out and be there for a neighbor. On the local level I think the "Church" is a great community thing. I did not like how the Church would encourage one political position or another. I mean, what happened to separation of Church and State? (this goes for both the church and for our politicians)

Back on point about the 10% tithying. If you can afford it and feel good about it there is nothing wrong with it. If your family is in crisis then perhaps the Church and community should be pitching in for your familys sake as opposed to placing the added burden on your family.

Please take the time to do a search for my trials after I helped myself out the door from APGreen years ago and almost died b/c of it.

The wife had so-called "good Christian friends" around her that basically were telling her to dump my sorry as* b/c I couldn't buy a GOOD job up until I made peace w/ my now long gone ex-Boss. Took almost 5 years doing anything to turn a $buck..

And in this time I cried out for help and HE heard me and led me to the way that saved my life both physically and spiritually!

Praise GOD in the highest!

And I too, don't like the "Business of Organized Religion". Our Pastor live's in a $750,000 house and takes trip's to Europe or wherever, whenever. And it was our Ass. Pastor that helped me, not him.

Good luck w/ all this and I will say a short one for you.

pdq67

According to the wife and the pastor I talked to, what I'm asking for is unreasonable.

I'm not a relgious person but to me, that doesn't sound like a church, it sounds like a cult. They're taking advantage of your wife (and by extension, you and your family) and your situation.

I hope you can find the help you need to rectify this situation before it goes too far

My bible's concordance lists Gen. 14:20, Lev. 27:30 and Num. 18:24 for tithes. They are all old testiment books and speak of the "Law". I personally don't believe we are bound by the old testiment law now, but some people do.

Although I have read the entire thread, I did so as it progressed, so, with time, I may have overlooked or forgotten if the particular denomination has yet to be revealed. I am curious as to the church/religion in question.

Furthermore, and this may very well be none of our business, how is this effecting the quality of life at home, aside from financially.
Are you and your wife still cordial to each other?
Has the dispute corrupted all aspects of everyday life?
Are you resigned to sleeping on the couch?

I realize that these are personal questions, but, in case you haven't noticed, there are 7 pages of redundant posts. While not a condemnation of religion, it appears that the salvation to which you seek, may not be found in a church. It's quite evident that your faiths reside in different houses of the lord anyway. Apparently, neither party has faltered in their beliefs or even offered to accept some kind of mutual concession, and likely never will, atleast amicably. You've made it abundantly clear that she has chosen the church regardless of the consequence to your marriage.

It may be time to focus on your future, because that is the only thing guaranteed at this point. Depending on their age, I suggest some dialog with your children, which should not be done covertly, rather, in the presence of their mother. Unless they are very young or extremely sheltered, I'd have to think that they are full aware of the rift between the two of you and likely are not particularly fond of the situation any more than you are.

This is just a suggestion, much like those presented by others. I may take some heat from the moral majority, but I can handle it. As mentioned in my earlier post, I believe in my self and my actions. It is far more important that I can sleep at night with my decisions, than whether it conflicts with the practices of zealots, two thousand years past. All but one, subjected to the same death that awaits you and I.

Praise GOD in the highest!

And I too, don't like the "Business of Organized Religion".

pdq67

What we need to remember here is that "organized religions' are man made made institutions. The Pharisees who heaped all those burdensome regulations on the Israelites with their strict interpretations of the Law, that was all man made. This issue was around two thousand years ago, and it still exists today.

Here's the real issue, it's about having a personal relationship with God. It's about trusting in the only savior we'll ever have, Jesus Christ. Whereas religion is man made, faith comes from the heart.

As Christians, we are urged to come together to worship and give reverence to God. We need the support of the church for fellowship and encouragement. We need the combined power of many prayers to help put on the armor of God, to protect us from the evil one. That's one of the important reasons for gathering together each week.

This is why I advocate doing your homework. Find that Bible based church that's concerned about your needs and your salvation. The Bible study classes should actually study the Bible, and not just gather to shoot the breeze. The pastor should be preaching and preparing his sermons from the Bible. Click on this link,

http://my.ekklesia360.com/Clients/sermonaudioplayer.php?CMSCODE=EKK&siteid=2245&sermonid=65090&useSkin=skin_plain.xml&CMS_LINK=http://my.ekklesia360.com&width=350&height=140

listen to some of the first words our pastor speaks. "OPEN YOUR BIBLES"

That's what you want to hear. You want to hear a sermon preached on the Bible and in a way that relates to what's going on in your life.

Interesting topic. I am a believer in the religions, not specifically the one I was raised to follow but we don't need to get into that.

In my family, I go to church once in a while. It keeps peace in the family, but is no big deal if I elect to stay home. I do it to make the wife happy an to keep a piece of mind about the whole thing.

My wife controls the money around here, I am just asked to stop spending if she feels I am going overboard, which rarely happens because I get her consent before major purchases. As far as giving to the church, she is very reasonable about it because we live in a very small town and she feels she is supporting the church so it will always be here. I have three children, one son and two daughters. The daughters contribute their time to the church, volunteering their services in which case we do not neccessarily feel we need to contribute cash funds which I feel is a fair trade for we do not charge them for our services. This works out well for our family and maybe could be taken as a suggestion to pass on, since our economy has not supported us lately and forced hardships on fellow brothers.

Anyway, not to make this a long one jusw thought I would give my little spotlight on the situation.

The wife calls and says her car is having problems and it's god punishing her for quiting tithing.

That is superstition, plain and simple.

Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are both agnostics.
Neither one of them "tithes" any money to any church or to any organization that proselytizes the Christian religion.
Yet, Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are two of the richest men in the world.
Why has God not "cursed" their finances for not "tithing?"
Instead, it would seem as if their finances have been "blessed."





The wife has started tithing again as she sees the car thing as a sign from god that she should not stop tithing.

Then your wife is giving money under compulsion...in direct antithesis to what her New Testament says about giving.

While I do believe that the moral precepts of Christianity are valid, I am not a "Christian."
However, I am somewhat knowledgeable of the content of the Bible.

First of all, "tithing" was part of the "Law of Moses."
If your wife considers herself to be a "Christian," then she should not be living under the "Law," she should be living under "grace."

If your wife is attempting to justify herself by keeping a portion of the "Law," then (according to her Bible) she is actually bringing a "curse" upon herself because the "Law" does not bring justification.
Also, if she chooses to keep the "Law," then she must keep all of the "Law," again bringing a "curse" upon herself because no one (according to her Bible) is capable of keeping the "Law."

For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the Law, to perform them” (Galatians 3:10).

The New Testament in your wife's Bible mandates that a person give what they are able to give, when they are able to give...not out of compulsion.

Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver.(2 Corinthians 9:7).

Not only is your wife attempting to follow the "Law of Moses" by tithing, but, by giving in an attempt to keep a "curse" from befalling her, she is also giving out of compulsion...thus completely abrogating what her New Testament says about giving.

Regards,
-Greg

Then your wife is giving money under compulsion...

That's right...I'm not sure if this has been mentioned earlier, but she needs to get some psychiatric help because she has a form of OCD. She feels she NEEDS to tithe because God will punish your family. Sort of like compulsive door lock checking. Her tithing is her form of reassurance and "checking to be sure". This is classic OCD, and religious compulsions are not that uncommon. Furthermore, I think your pastor is taking advantage of the fact that your wife has this problem. Instead of seeing your situation for what it is and trying to help you through it with a kind heart, he seems to be doing the opposite.

Keep your head up, things will get better..