With all the talk of the "B" body spindle upgrade, I have a couple of questions upon which I would like comment:

1. The "B" body spindle upgrade allows the installation of 12 inch brakes and changes suspension geometry. Are "most" folks who are making this upgrade after the 12 inch brakes or the improved suspension geometry this upgrade "may" provide?

2. If 12 inch brakes alone is the goal for your upgrade,. There are other bolton stock GM parts available from the boneyard using stock A body spindles. Why not use these upgrades and not worry about aftermarket "A" arms or offset cross shafts and stock arms and B body spindles?

3. With the availabilty of BIG Wilwood "Gen III" aluminum calipers that are a bolton for both of the above 12 inch brakes conversions, why other than "caliper look" or ease of purchase would anyone buy one of the $700-$1000 prepacked kits available from numerous suppliers?

That's enough for now. I look forward to everyone's input!

Mike

Please tell me what parts would make a bolt-on 12" upgrade. I don't know of any, and I would like the larger rotors.

I currently have an 11" tall spindle conversion, using the stock upper arms, and the stock cross-shafts. $3 worth of longer, Grade 8 cross-shaft-to-bracket bolts and lots of shims was all it took.

I upgraded the front and rear suspension all at once, and immediatly after buying the car, so I can't comment on the effectiveness of any individual pieces--but I'm quite satisfied with the way the car handles and rides. I'm willing to accept there are some compromises in the tall-spindle upgrade, but the benefits outweigh the negatives especially at the junkyard-accessable price of the conversion. (I converted from manual drums to power front disc, using a '75 Nova as a parts donor. I already owned the totalled Nova, and the front end of the 'Camino was worn out and needed repair anyway, so this was a near-free conversion.

Chevelle drum brake spindle, drum brake wheel hub, 65-82 Corvette rotor, a modified/lenghtend stock disc brake caliper bracket (extend it 5/8 inch to fit the caliper on the larger rotor) and a Suburban brake caliper.

This gives you the larger/thicker 12 inch, 1 1/4 inch thick Corvette rotor and the HUGE clamping power of the large Suburban single piston caliper. You can also mount the Wilwood Gen III aluminum caliper that is a bolton in this application. This is the same caliper used by lot's of weekend round d round guys.

Also, I stand corrected, you must modify the stock Chevelle disc brake caliper bracket so it's really not a bolton, but REAL close!!!!

or you can move up to 13" disc brakes using either C4 or C5 corvette rotors and calipers, stock spindles and modified drum brake hubs. This requires a machined rotor bracket which is available from several suppliers. Good questions Mike, I also await comments. To me, for a car that will be used for cruising and a few bursts of straight line speed, the stock suspension components with good brakes for hauling the beast down would seem like the way to go. I agree that the tall spindle swap improves cornering but is not without drawbacks. i.e. bump steer and increased steering radius.
Cheers
Steve

LOL! Man you guys and your 12" brake conversions never cease to crack me up! This must have been covered at least 100 times before if you would do a search and I can tell you from years of playing with this stuff that there is simply no convincing someone who has chosen to dis-believe.

My first question to anyone thinking about doing this is "Why"? Do you want the better braking, do you want better handling? Are you willing to do a little work? Do you belive the factory set up is perfect??

The last point above I believe to be one of the better arguements for doing the swap... the factory alignment and geometry are NOT perfect! In fact, it's pretty far from perfect, that's why GM developed the taller spindle!! True, they redsigned some other stuff to go along with it, but the taller spindle is in fact an improvement over stock. "But what about all that horrible bumpsteer and alignment problem..." Again I ask you... does your car have any bump steer in stock form? Yes it does! Does it get better or worse with the swap?... depends on how good of a job you do on the swap. Personally, my cars' bumpsteer was less after doing the swap... hardly noticed it at all. Of course, I did a lot of research on parts and think I chose wisely... used stiffer springs, better bushings, offset inner shafts, new ball joints, new rod ends, etc and it all fit together very well. In fact, my alignment guy who has done lots of older cars, could not believe how well he could get that big-block car to corner! I couldn't believe it either! So my advise to those considering doing the tall spindle swap strictly for the better handling, is to really think twice about doing it! Do you really want to be able to corner faster and flatter? Do you really want to find yourself actually pressing the gas a little bit in the middle of a corner? Do you really want your car to feel like a modern muscle car?

As for brakes... again, there are many different ways to get 12" brakes or bigger on these cars... the most common ways are B-body spindles or buying a kit. Kits are a great way to go if someone has the cash to fork out... they work good, have matched parts, and replacement parts are only a phone call and week worth of waiting away! One question I like to ask of people handing out suggestions and opinions is "Have you ever done that swap?" All of the swaps will require work, some more than others, but please consider one of the most important factors... safety! You mentioned modifying stock caliper bracket to fit a 12" rotor... have you checked into what those mods entail? Not an easy job and if you are not a good welder and fabricator, then I recommend you don't try it at home. Your life and others is depending on that bracket holding up under pressures it was originally not designed to handle... much less after it has been cut up and heated up from welding!
Also, one of the key parts to the above solution is being able to find some stock caliper brackets in the junk yards. Not sure if you have looked lately, but those parts are pretty rare and hard to find around here! If you can find them readily, I suggest you buy up as many as you can and sell them on Ebay! Another problem on the above solution is that the rotors do not line up correctly in the calipers if you simply use the drum hub. The drum hub needs longer studs as well. It can be done, but it is simply not a straight "bolt-on" conversion many people think it is.
The B-body conversion is not simply a bolt on either... there are lots of 'little' issues that will pop up! Metric rotor studs is one of them, what calipers to use is another. My personal advise to people thinking of doing this would be to use the stock B-body rotors! Sure, they are 5x5 bolt pattern, but if you plan ahead, it's doable! The rotors are much cheaper than 1LE rotors, easy to find and fit good! I also see a whole lot of discussions on what calipers to use along with what brake hoses... why not simply use stock Chevelle calipers?? These bolt right on to the B-body spindles, have the proper thickness, have the brake hose fitting in the correct spot, and of course accept the stock Chevelle brake hoses! It could not be simplier than that! Use some good pads and you're good to go!

Anyway, I'm not really sure if you had a question or if you just wanted some discussion, so hopefully there's some fodder for discussion. Personally, I like the B-body spindle upgrade and so has everyone I'm helped do it! The negatives of the swap such as bumpsteer and such are so over-exagerated it's comical! Best bet is to go find a car that has had the conversion and ride in it. Make sure the swap was done well, otherwise, who knows what you could be getting into... Just be sure it's safe! And if anyone cares, yes, I have done pretty much every possible conversion save for the expensive kits, so I have a little experience with it! I can tell you that from a satisfaction point of view, using the B-body spindles, making my own hub and then using the Corvette rotors sure felt good! Worked great too, but did involve a fair amount of work! And then converting them to manual brakes was a whole 'nother story!

Best of luck,
Bill C.

My 1LE rotors were the same price as B-body rotors. True I have metric lugs up front. My other car my wagon I got the rotors from Global West and have the right studs are zinc washed and slotted. E-bay has slotted 1LEs for sale as well.

Well, that great Whittaker, I wish I could get the 1LE rotors around here for the same price! Here, the price is about $75 ea for the 1lE rotors... the 'normal' 12" B-body rotors can be had for about $35 ea! Less than half...

I've looked into ordering, but they are heavy and shipping is expensive.

It's not hard to swap the studs... the trick is finding the right size! Then it just takes a hammer and a good breaker bar to basically 'suck' the new ones in! A press is much easier tho and most machine shops will not charge much to do it.

Bill C.

As far as price goes, I just did a search on Ebay and you can "Buy now" a pair of slotted 1LE rotors for $75. Not a bad price.

Kevin C

The "B" body spindle upgrade allows the installation of 12 inch brakes and changes suspension geometry. Are "most" folks who are making this upgrade after the 12 inch brakes or the improved suspension geometry this upgrade "may" provide?
The B-body spindles do not automatically yield the 12-inch rotor swap, you need to find the "12-inch rotor" B-Body spindle. I think the 11-inch B-Body spindles might be more common...

I can't speak for others, but I think most swapping to the B-body are doing so for the handling of the tall-spindle AND the big brakes.

I have heard of a few people using 11-inch spindles (B-body or F-body) for the handling upgrade.


I think BC hit the nail on the head... especially regarding the "modification" of the factory A-body caliper bracket... Sounds like an accident waiting to happen...

Everyone that I know that has performed this swap has been happy with the results...

As for the "decreased" steering radius, thats is true, but many people also swap in Camaro or later Monte Carlo Quick Ratio steering boxes that also reduce steering radius... Why??? Probably because the drawbacks are limited to areas that do not usually affect performance, safety or daily driving to a major extent...